[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[Simakki]

Re: Proposal from a macroeconomist for an optimal crypto-currency
Today at 12:10:22 PM
 #37
Quote from: zeronominal

"There seem to be two proposals, neither of which seem like particularly good ideas:

1) Proposal for hybrid POS/PON: Non-linear proof of stake rewards. Rewards are effectively per account up to a threshold. Seems ripe for exploitation by botnets.
2) Proposal for POI: Seems to be the Google Page Rank algorithm (i.e. Principal Components) with transactions replacing links between webpages, and the sum of coin ages replacing the content quality measure (i.e. the prior distribution over nodes). Seems equally vulnerable to exploitation by botnets. (Suppose there are N legitimate nodes, all trading, N botnet nodes, not trading, and 1 master node for the botnet. The botnet nodes have arbitrarily old coins so receive substantial weight, despite their lack of any trading except with the master. All of this weight then flows to the 1 master node for the botnet, who must then get the highest "PageRank" in the network.) In any case, rewarding old coins is the opposite of what you want to do. The existence of old coins implies that the currency isn't actually being used! By rewarding old coins you're effectively taxing transactions, which imposes a large efficiency cost."

Hmm, could our dev take a look at this subject?

[Chris001]

Have we thought about who we are going to have as our spokesman? We should have someone who can go do interviews in person if requested.

Im thinking that UP will want to stay anonymous. We should be thinking of this now so that we can make sure this person is staying updated on ALL aspects of the NEM coin and the Movement as well.

Looking at the trello board breifly, there is already a ton of things this person would have to know.

[chenmeilin]

when can we get our shares?

[cryptomite]

Re: Proposal from a macroeconomist for an optimal crypto-currency
Today at 12:10:22 PM
 #37
Quote from: zeronominal

"There seem to be two proposals, neither of which seem like particularly good ideas:

1) Proposal for hybrid POS/PON: Non-linear proof of stake rewards. Rewards are effectively per account up to a threshold. Seems ripe for exploitation by botnets.
2) Proposal for POI: Seems to be the Google Page Rank algorithm (i.e. Principal Components) with transactions replacing links between webpages, and the sum of coin ages replacing the content quality measure (i.e. the prior distribution over nodes). Seems equally vulnerable to exploitation by botnets. (Suppose there are N legitimate nodes, all trading, N botnet nodes, not trading, and 1 master node for the botnet. The botnet nodes have arbitrarily old coins so receive substantial weight, despite their lack of any trading except with the master. All of this weight then flows to the 1 master node for the botnet, who must then get the highest "PageRank" in the network.) In any case, rewarding old coins is the opposite of what you want to do. The existence of old coins implies that the currency isn't actually being used! By rewarding old coins you're effectively taxing transactions, which imposes a large efficiency cost."

Hmm, could our dev take a look at this subject?

Are you an SEO? Just from the sound of this post it seems you might be.

If you are can you help us. I think this is a very important issue. Much mire than people think!!!

[utopianfuture]

Re: Proposal from a macroeconomist for an optimal crypto-currency
Today at 12:10:22 PM
 #37
Quote from: zeronominal

"There seem to be two proposals, neither of which seem like particularly good ideas:

1) Proposal for hybrid POS/PON: Non-linear proof of stake rewards. Rewards are effectively per account up to a threshold. Seems ripe for exploitation by botnets.
2) Proposal for POI: Seems to be the Google Page Rank algorithm (i.e. Principal Components) with transactions replacing links between webpages, and the sum of coin ages replacing the content quality measure (i.e. the prior distribution over nodes). Seems equally vulnerable to exploitation by botnets. (Suppose there are N legitimate nodes, all trading, N botnet nodes, not trading, and 1 master node for the botnet. The botnet nodes have arbitrarily old coins so receive substantial weight, despite their lack of any trading except with the master. All of this weight then flows to the 1 master node for the botnet, who must then get the highest "PageRank" in the network.) In any case, rewarding old coins is the opposite of what you want to do. The existence of old coins implies that the currency isn't actually being used! By rewarding old coins you're effectively taxing transactions, which imposes a large efficiency cost."

Hmm, could our dev take a look at this subject?

I would not answer in any detail about this because the algorithm is under refinement. Comments are welcomed AFTER the white paper is published.

[jiosefjd]

I'm very interested in this coin. When is the next opportunity for others to get involved?

[patmast3r]

Re: Proposal from a macroeconomist for an optimal crypto-currency
Today at 12:10:22 PM
 #37
Quote from: zeronominal

"There seem to be two proposals, neither of which seem like particularly good ideas:

1) Proposal for hybrid POS/PON: Non-linear proof of stake rewards. Rewards are effectively per account up to a threshold. Seems ripe for exploitation by botnets.
2) Proposal for POI: Seems to be the Google Page Rank algorithm (i.e. Principal Components) with transactions replacing links between webpages, and the sum of coin ages replacing the content quality measure (i.e. the prior distribution over nodes). Seems equally vulnerable to exploitation by botnets. (Suppose there are N legitimate nodes, all trading, N botnet nodes, not trading, and 1 master node for the botnet. The botnet nodes have arbitrarily old coins so receive substantial weight, despite their lack of any trading except with the master. All of this weight then flows to the 1 master node for the botnet, who must then get the highest "PageRank" in the network.) In any case, rewarding old coins is the opposite of what you want to do. The existence of old coins implies that the currency isn't actually being used! By rewarding old coins you're effectively taxing transactions, which imposes a large efficiency cost."

Hmm, could our dev take a look at this subject?

I would not answer in any detail about this because the algorithm is under refinement. Comments are welcomed AFTER the white paper is published.

I do want to ease it up a bit so noone is worried about POI being oh so vulnerable.
POI will consist of multiple factors that determine the "importance" of a node to the network. It's not only pon, it's not only pos and also not only a combionation of the two.
The detailes are still being balanced out and like UP said people should only comment on it after the actual whitepaper is out.

So relax and have faith in the devs

[utopianfuture]

@ devs..

will nem be turing complete or have automated transactions? i think this is a vital feature for 2nd gen coins!

bump!

utopianfuture or patmast3r

can either of you answer? if you want to compete with nxt then you will need this.. otherwise you will only ever be 2nd to nxt..

Too many hype floating around. Why do you think Turing complete/ automated transaction is vital ? We don't have these but we might have automaton script that can do all the same plus creating shopping list + match making for singles in a close proximity.

[patmast3r]

@ devs..

will nem be turing complete or have automated transactions? i think this is a vital feature for 2nd gen coins!

bump!

utopianfuture or patmast3r

can either of you answer? if you want to compete with nxt then you will need this.. otherwise you will only ever be 2nd to nxt..

I've asked jaguar to answer your question as I think he's best suited to do so

[roslinpl]

I'm very interested in this coin. When is the next opportunity for others to get involved?

you can get involved just like now - am I right? \

Just buy some NEM and you are in

[greentea]

Development update:

The development contract announcement will be delayed. My plan is to have the announcement when we have a clear road map of NEM development going forward and preferably within 1-2 weeks of the alpha launch. Unfortunately, at this point we don't have an ETA for the alpha launch yet and consequently, the formal announcement is delayed. My guesstimate of the Alpha is still on later part of April but there are quite a few things that needs to be worked on before we can make a solid ETA.

We currently have two repo, one for NEM infrastructure codes and one for NEM client codes and quite a few other concurrent projects going on. Progress is made on daily basis and team-quality wise I think we are as strong as Ethereum group except that NEM team and development are still in a stealthy mode.

NEM client would be called NEM community client (NCC) and here is NCC specification written by Thies1965. Feel free to comment on it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10ZVrzuS_krjRF5rMvt5oKl3IS3VOhF_qnn2faZb7KZQ/edit

These are some mock-up design of NCC

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9jSTPeGZxgtTjVncFlmMmJ6LW8&usp=sharing

I hope you like what NCC will look like in the future. Let me know if you are a developer and interested in working on expanding NEM ecosystem. I have some ideas about the future direction of NEM that I could share and I am very excited about it. Thanks.    

Wow, you guys got an ACE developer looks really slick!  I like it ...

[erkki12]

We're forming a SWARM team devoted to the promotion of NEM. We're looking members who are willing to do commenting and upvoting/liking articles, posts, videos etc. in order to promote NEM.

All interested, please send me email to the address nempromotion@gmail.com or PM with your email address and I'll list you! Please include your bitcointalk username in the post.

For the record the SWARM team is not yet active, since there is no coin launched. We're forming the team now, so that we'll have it ready when the need comes.

E

[Pierre 2]

Are stakes available anymore? I just found out about this yesterday 

[gsxrl3oi]

WOOOOOOOOOOW. WE HAVE TO BUY UTOPIAN DEV TEAM DRINKS.
Great work guys. Keep spreading the word.


[]==[xxxxxxx YEYO xxxx>

[gentlemand]

Are stakes available anymore? I just found out about this yesterday 

The waiting list for stakes that might become available is here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=467027.msg5159558#msg5159558

[TauMuon]

Guys, just another friendly reminder to go check out the NEM subreddit. Vote, comment, subscribe and post!

Reddit has a huge crypto following, so we need to make it a hub of activity!

Don't forget about the official NEM forum too! It's a bit sparse over there...

[TauMuon]

Are stakes available anymore? I just found out about this yesterday 

The waiting list for stakes that might become available is here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=467027.msg5159558#msg5159558

Unfortunately the IPO ended about a month ago. There is currently a public auditing of the Stakeholder List to weed out large multi-accounters. People on the waiting list will be used to bring the overall stakeholder number up to ~3000 people after this process is over.

[TauMuon]

We're forming a SWARM team devoted to the promotion of NEM. We're looking members who are willing to do commenting and upvoting/liking articles, posts, videos etc. in order to promote NEM.

All interested, please send me email to the address nempromotion@gmail.com or PM with your email address and I'll list you! Please include your bitcointalk username in the post.

For the record the SWARM team is not yet active, since there is no coin launched. We're forming the team now, so that we'll have it ready when the need comes.

E

Bumping this. Everyone join!

Just a note: we need to be careful not to come across as spammy. Perhaps you should make a list of ground rules for SWARM team members prior to any SWARMING? Maybe a reminder in each email you send out?

[TauMuon]

when can we get our shares?

The NEM coins will not be distributed to stakeholders until the end of May earliest.

Patience is a virtue! A longer wait for a superior product is well worth it, remember that.

[TwinWinNerD]

IS there a way to help the NEM team?