Bitcoin Forum
May 28, 2018, 05:42:48 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.16.0  [Torrent]. (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 ... 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 [277] 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 ... 379 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [POT]PotCoin - Banking for the Legal Cannabis Industry ✦ ✦ ✦Grow With Us ✦ ✦ ✦  (Read 883342 times)
fonzerrellie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000


Longshots/underdogs- MZC, BERN, TECH, SQL, WSX


View Profile
September 23, 2015, 10:40:47 PM
 #5521

and who knows with the richlist... which ones were wiped from harddrives, forgotten passwords etc. you could make the same argument about so many coins it's not even funny. will they dump one day? who knows. is it worth endlessly worrying about? no. will the coins be better distributed once/if they get dumped? yes  Cool

DigitalPrice "DP" UQhRdsuwvptFosjrVZf3L8hRmuzFMGzDoX
Beancash "BITB/BEAN" 2XtrRs1mPyaP5oRJgwMvQmf3Z49ftTx2KU
PIVX, ONION, EXP, BLK, MONA, NXS, AMP, BAT,DBET,  EDG, VRC/VRM, WAVES, NEO, TROLL, ODN
1527486168
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1527486168

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1527486168
Reply with quote  #2

1527486168
Report to moderator
1527486168
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1527486168

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1527486168
Reply with quote  #2

1527486168
Report to moderator
1527486168
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1527486168

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1527486168
Reply with quote  #2

1527486168
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
rdyoung
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 23, 2015, 10:47:32 PM
 #5522


I'm not confusing anything, I think you are trying to turn this into a different argument. My question remains the same. How do you explain staking to a merchant who just wants to move his money when he wants to, but can't.

I've been watching POS coins since Peercoin was first launched and I know what its advantages are. It also has some serious drawbacks including being able to "vote" on both sides of a fork. My question is not about POS in general...its about why do you think specifically it will work with Potcoin. Is the rich list misleading? Sure. But to outright dismiss the fact that 2/3 of the entire supply is held by 100 addresses is naive. Yes there is an exchange or two in there, but most of those coins are held by people. Like I said before, the ones who are gaining the most from Potcoin switching to POS are the people who already had the most to begin with. Ending POW only served to further consolidate the money supply.

Also your point about the reduced money supply because of dormant coins is totally moot. So what if some coins are dormant. As soon as the price rises those people who are sitting on their cold wallets could easily dump their coins. In fact that's probably exactly what many of them are waiting for. Unless the coins are destroyed or inaccessible you can't just arbitrarily assume they're no longer part of the supply. If that's the case our market cap is nowhere near the number many web sites like coinmarketcap.com quote

You are most definitely conflating and confusing issues. Just because you have been "watching" doesn't mean you have a grasp on what goes on underneath the surface.

I don't have time for an ECON101 class.
With anything in life, the longer something sits locked with no one coming or going, the greater the chance the key has been lost. Can you know that for sure? Of course not because its proving a negative. However, using a little commonsense and knowledge on how coins are typically put into cold storage tells me that the addresses with 1 or more TXs in and NO TXs out are 99% likely to be cold storage. If those coins come out of cold storage to be sold off when the price rises, thats awesome, it puts more coins into the supply to help steady the price. POS in any form is an incentive to HOLD the coins, not let them sit at an exchange ready to be sold off if/when the price is right.

The voting on both sides of a fork? What? Do you understand how POS works? Do you understand that to attack a POS coin requires funds to purchase that coin for the attack, this isn't fiat where you can print a ton of fake currency and attack an economy from that angle. POS just like POW will see small forks on a regular basis, this is one of the reasons why ALL POS coins require upwards of 200 confirmations before you can move the staked coins. These forks get abandoned behind the scenes with no money lost if the code is doing its thing.

Reduced money supply? See the first paragraph and this, the coins that haven't been moved in over a year are likely forgot about by their owner, regardless of that, for now thats fewer coins competing for BTC or USD on the exchanges, thats in favor of demand in the supplyVdemand equation. There are 2 types of "supply", the Money Supply is the total # of coins that have been created, the "supply" in supplyVdemand is the # of coins that can be accessed on DEMAND by those looking to buy, just like any commodity supply that has been sitting on the sidelines will come online if/when the price is right, this is the market being efficient and working properly.

I am curious how you think that ending POW consolidated the supply? Do you think that the people who were mining POT started buying it? Do you think that somehow enough new miners would have come online to outweigh the bigger farms that were mining it? If we can increase demand for POT the inverse to your argument will be true, yes there will always be the large bag holders, just like any coin or currency, crypto or fiat, but there are enough coins on the exchanges that we could easily see 1k people buy 100k each, or 10k people buy 100k each, that would most definitely decentralize the supply, it will also reduce the supply while increasing demand.

Last thing to cover, you never asked why I thought this would work with POT specifically, you asked why I though POS was going to see an influx of new money. I answered this and so did @fonzerellie, but in case you missed it. Its easier to get people to support and buy a coin that pays them for having their wallet unlocked and supporting the network than one that doesn't pay you, there is also the what happens when the earnings per block are low enough that its not worth mining.
rdyoung
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 23, 2015, 10:52:41 PM
 #5523

and who knows with the richlist... which ones were wiped from harddrives, forgotten passwords etc. you could make the same argument about so many coins it's not even funny. will they dump one day? who knows. is it worth endlessly worrying about? no. will the coins be better distributed once/if they get dumped? yes  Cool

Yep, look at BTC as a prime example. Satoshis "millions" haven't moved EVER, we had that HDD thrown out in england somewhere with who knows how many coins on it.
If anyone needs a real life example, my father has lost the keys to 2 sets of addresses. I set him up with mycelium on his phone, first it was the encrypted pdf backup, then when he lost that he got setup again with the HD wallet, he then proceeded to lose that seed. To assume that 100% of a coins supply is accessible and will be dumped is naive at best, ignorant at worst. Of course you have to account for some of it, but as I have posted the longer coins have been sitting, the more likely it is they are lost, and even if they aren't, you can do the math on accessible supply by the coins in the wallets that have shown activity as recent as the last big code update, like a fork to a new algo.
ny2cafuse
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000


Criptoe Team member and Auroracoin Team member


View Profile
September 23, 2015, 11:14:00 PM
 #5524

Are we seriously talking about supply and demand again in this thread.  I don't know if most were around back when the block halving change happened, but we discussed supply and demand ad nauseum.  You can go back to like page 220 or something and read back.  Needless to say, but I'll say it anyway, no one knew what the hell they were talking about when they started rattling off the theory of supply and demand, and Potcoin took a hit back then because of it.

I truly believe supply and demand isn't totally relevant to crypto.  Just like forex trading strategies.  Crypto is it's own beast... and people need to treat it that way.

As far as a store owner goes though, people always make it out to be mining vs banking.  The typical store owner doesn't care about the creation of coins, or interest, or any of the things that enthusiasts care about.  All they care about is getting paid for their goods or services, and being able to use that currency to then go pay for something else.  Merchants now aren't running printing presses in their stores printing out money in the back room.  They aren't calculating interest on their savings... especially MMJ merchants who can't bank.

The only thing the average merchant would really, really care about is blockchain stability and fast transactions.  They want to sell their goods and pay their bills.

And seriously, ResearchYourCoin... again?  Now you're just getting annoying.  I might just go mine CANN now just because you're so insistent that people don't.

-Fuse

Community > Devs
rdyoung
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 23, 2015, 11:26:25 PM
 #5525

Are we seriously talking about supply and demand again in this thread.  I don't know if most were around back when the block halving change happened, but we discussed supply and demand ad nauseum.  You can go back to like page 220 or something and read back.  Needless to say, but I'll say it anyway, no one knew what the hell they were talking about when they started rattling off the theory of supply and demand, and Potcoin took a hit back then because of it.

I truly believe supply and demand isn't totally relevant to crypto.  Just like forex trading strategies.  Crypto is it's own beast... and people need to treat it that way.

As far as a store owner goes though, people always make it out to be mining vs banking.  The typical store owner doesn't care about the creation of coins, or interest, or any of the things that enthusiasts care about.  All they care about is getting paid for their goods or services, and being able to use that currency to then go pay for something else.  Merchants now aren't running printing presses in their stores printing out money in the back room.  They aren't calculating interest on their savings... especially MMJ merchants who can't bank.

The only thing the average merchant would really, really care about is blockchain stability and fast transactions.  They want to sell their goods and pay their bills.

And seriously, ResearchYourCoin... again?  Now you're just getting annoying.  I might just go mine CANN now just because you're so insistent that people don't.

-Fuse

Supply/Demand and inflation are 2 things that are underneath the surface of EVERY economy/currency/commodity/etc. To think that inflation doesn't affect you or that you can beat it is digging your own grave. Potcoin took the hit it did not because of a supplyVdemand argument but because of the issues with old devs, lack of direction, whatever was going on, it also kept dropping because supply via POW mining was greater than the demand from fresh money. We have locked in the inflation rate but we still have a lack of demand from new money to give POTcoin the price spike it is capable of, this withstanding, the price has steadied since the transition.

Look at XPY or Hyperstake as a good example to clarify supply/demand. If you bought in either when they launched, your NAV of your wallet is a fraction of what it was, if your lucky you sold your stake over time and hopefully caught some of the bulls, but on the whole they have been sliding into the ether and will continue to do so until the inflation is brought under control. Hyperstakes inflation rate is and will continue to slowdown thanks to their subsidy cap, so if/when demand is ever greater than supply the price will start climbing again or at the least stay steady.

You may have meant to say that its difficult to read a chart for a crypto coin and use the same analysis you would on a dow listed stock or a commodity like LNG or Crude oil.
In this you would be correct, however that analysis fails only for the coins that have virtually no trading data or are only pump and dump scams, you can look at coins like BTC/BLK/DASH/etc, basically any coin with a decent trading volume and enough coins in supply to make a P&D hard for those that might try. The same goes for FX, you can utilize the same trading techniques as for any chart reading but it won't tell you when the a government does something like with CHF a few months ago that send the price either soaring or crashing. The longer term you look however, the more accurate your predictions can be, assuming you know how to read a chart. It amazes me how many people think they understand it but don't have the basics, or think I am a genius when I say its either going to do X or Y.

Of course a merchant only cares about getting paid, but telling someone that they can take POTcoin for purchases AND get paid to have their wallet open and supporting the network helps to sell it.
rdyoung
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 23, 2015, 11:56:45 PM
 #5526

Will someone please permaban @researchyourcoin.
rdyoung
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 24, 2015, 12:25:40 AM
 #5527

Will someone please permaban @researchyourcoin.

I understand your frustrations and concerns about the information I've posted being public in your community thread however, like I mention in the disclaimer;  This information is strictly for the greater good of all coins and unfortunately in crypto we are left to self regulate.  If you feel the information is spam or irrevelent to this thread discussion is entirely of your own opinion, I would suggest you and anyone else who feels the same use the "ignore" button.

Your knowingly spamming this and other threads and your putting the onus on everyone else to ignore you if they don't like it.
Stop spamming this info. Do what I have suggested, start a fresh thread here or on reddit and make a simple and respectful request for people to join in.

If I hit you with a hammer and say sorry after, does that mean hitting you was ok? What if I do it repeatedly even with you saying stop? I said sorry, so its all good? Right?

PS. Your posts keep getting flagged and deleted, all this is doing is hurting your cause.
Chronikka
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 500



View Profile
September 24, 2015, 12:54:40 AM
 #5528


I'm not confusing anything, I think you are trying to turn this into a different argument. My question remains the same. How do you explain staking to a merchant who just wants to move his money when he wants to, but can't.

I've been watching POS coins since Peercoin was first launched and I know what its advantages are. It also has some serious drawbacks including being able to "vote" on both sides of a fork. My question is not about POS in general...its about why do you think specifically it will work with Potcoin. Is the rich list misleading? Sure. But to outright dismiss the fact that 2/3 of the entire supply is held by 100 addresses is naive. Yes there is an exchange or two in there, but most of those coins are held by people. Like I said before, the ones who are gaining the most from Potcoin switching to POS are the people who already had the most to begin with. Ending POW only served to further consolidate the money supply.

Also your point about the reduced money supply because of dormant coins is totally moot. So what if some coins are dormant. As soon as the price rises those people who are sitting on their cold wallets could easily dump their coins. In fact that's probably exactly what many of them are waiting for. Unless the coins are destroyed or inaccessible you can't just arbitrarily assume they're no longer part of the supply. If that's the case our market cap is nowhere near the number many web sites like coinmarketcap.com quote

You are most definitely conflating and confusing issues. Just because you have been "watching" doesn't mean you have a grasp on what goes on underneath the surface.

I don't have time for an ECON101 class.
With anything in life, the longer something sits locked with no one coming or going, the greater the chance the key has been lost. Can you know that for sure? Of course not because its proving a negative. However, using a little commonsense and knowledge on how coins are typically put into cold storage tells me that the addresses with 1 or more TXs in and NO TXs out are 99% likely to be cold storage. If those coins come out of cold storage to be sold off when the price rises, thats awesome, it puts more coins into the supply to help steady the price. POS in any form is an incentive to HOLD the coins, not let them sit at an exchange ready to be sold off if/when the price is right.

What proof do you have that wallets with no spent coins are lost? other than conjecture? Cold storage is not the same as lost. Lots of people have cold storage. Its called a bank account. Also Potcoin is POSv not POS. The V stands for velocity and was designed to encourage spending, not holding. More info here: http://agroff.github.io/posv/

The voting on both sides of a fork? What? Do you understand how POS works? Do you understand that to attack a POS coin requires funds to purchase that coin for the attack, this isn't fiat where you can print a ton of fake currency and attack an economy from that angle. POS just like POW will see small forks on a regular basis, this is one of the reasons why ALL POS coins require upwards of 200 confirmations before you can move the staked coins. These forks get abandoned behind the scenes with no money lost if the code is doing its thing.

In the event of a fork, you can stake coins on both chains. You "vote" for both sides of the fork. That's how POS systems achieve consensus. Each stake is a "vote" for the correct chain. You could in theory stake coins on both branches during a fork. More info here: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/25743/what-are-the-downsides-of-proof-of-stake (Unfortunately I don't have a better link for this one, its only really been discussed in a few forums. There isn't a nice breakdown but its pretty self explanatory)

Reduced money supply? See the first paragraph and this, the coins that haven't been moved in over a year are likely forgot about by their owner, regardless of that, for now thats fewer coins competing for BTC or USD on the exchanges, thats in favor of demand in the supplyVdemand equation. There are 2 types of "supply", the Money Supply is the total # of coins that have been created, the "supply" in supplyVdemand is the # of coins that can be accessed on DEMAND by those looking to buy, just like any commodity supply that has been sitting on the sidelines will come online if/when the price is right, this is the market being efficient and working properly.

I have coins that haven't moved in over a year. Believe me if the price spikes people will notice, and if they forgot their coins they will certainly remember them if the price goes up. I'm just saying you shouldn't assume such a large amount of coins are forgotten or lost. How many people just forget about their money?

I am curious how you think that ending POW consolidated the supply? Do you think that the people who were mining POT started buying it? Do you think that somehow enough new miners would have come online to outweigh the bigger farms that were mining it? If we can increase demand for POT the inverse to your argument will be true, yes there will always be the large bag holders, just like any coin or currency, crypto or fiat, but there are enough coins on the exchanges that we could easily see 1k people buy 100k each, or 10k people buy 100k each, that would most definitely decentralize the supply, it will also reduce the supply while increasing demand.

Take the mining away and the only way to get coins is to buy them with something else, and from somebody else. Its a small barrier for new entry into the system because a new user now has to buy his coins from the holder who is able to replace his sold coins by staking. The large holders stake their coins and make a larger amount than anybody else, simply because they had more to start with. This one I'll admit I'm not sure about, but IMO in this scenario where new users can only buy from current holders that should raise the price, assuming there are new users coming in. But if new users stop coming in, the price will stall, and my guess is that people over time will sell, right back to large holders. I think that's where we are now, market stalled because there is no growth, and a small group of people continuing to collect coins.

Last thing to cover, you never asked why I thought this would work with POT specifically, you asked why I though POS was going to see an influx of new money. I answered this and so did @fonzerellie, but in case you missed it. Its easier to get people to support and buy a coin that pays them for having their wallet unlocked and supporting the network than one that doesn't pay you, there is also the what happens when the earnings per block are low enough that its not worth mining.

I heard both of your responses. The electricity problem fonzerellie mentioned I agree with, see my previous. But over time electricity is continuing to get cheaper and mining is getting more efficient. I don't think in the end it will be a big deal.

Yes its easier to get people to support a coin that earns them interest, but at the end of the day they want a system that works and doesn't cost them much (that doesn't just mean fees. Lost time is lost business too). Which brings me to this...you still have not answered my question, so third time I'm asking:

What do you say to people (specifically merchants) who want to be able to move their coins but can't do it because they're staking? That has always been overlooked in POS systems. Sure its great you get interest but if you actually want to use the currency? no interest for you. Or worse, they do stake the coins and then can't use them when they need them. That will frustrate people into not using this coin. Not everybody, but some. Usability should be more important than gaining interest.

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination"  -Albert Einstein
ny2cafuse
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000


Criptoe Team member and Auroracoin Team member


View Profile
September 24, 2015, 12:55:53 AM
 #5529

Supply/Demand and inflation are 2 things that are underneath the surface of EVERY economy/currency/commodity/etc. To think that inflation doesn't affect you or that you can beat it is digging your own grave. Potcoin took the hit it did not because of a supplyVdemand argument but because of the issues with old devs, lack of direction, whatever was going on, it also kept dropping because supply via POW mining was greater than the demand from fresh money. We have locked in the inflation rate but we still have a lack of demand from new money to give POTcoin the price spike it is capable of, this withstanding, the price has steadied since the transition.

The whole change was because of supply and demand.  That was the entire argument, and the driving force behind this coin's midlife failure(to date).  They believed too many coins were being created, and that's why the price was down.  They didn't address the fact that they had no demand.  So they reduced supply by accelerating halving.  Then they realized that was a stupid idea when the price went nowhere, and they went silent.  I'll say it now like I said then.  Whether you have a million coins or a billion, if you don't have a use for it, it's going nowhere.  IMO, demand is relevant, supply isn't.  In the end you're just trading x units for y goods.  No one cares if that's 10, 100, 1000, or 10,000 units, as long as they can buy something with it.

Look at XPY or Hyperstake as a good example to clarify supply/demand. If you bought in either when they launched, your NAV of your wallet is a fraction of what it was, if your lucky you sold your stake over time and hopefully caught some of the bulls, but on the whole they have been sliding into the ether and will continue to do so until the inflation is brought under control. Hyperstakes inflation rate is and will continue to slowdown thanks to their subsidy cap, so if/when demand is ever greater than supply the price will start climbing again or at the least stay steady.

I haven't followed either, so I wouldn't know about their dynamics.  Again though, inflation, supply, etc... it's all irrelevant without demand.  And I know we're pretty much arguing the same thing here, but I'm still in the mindset that you could probably make the max supply infinite and it wouldn't matter.  25k POT then is still worth 25k POT now.

You may have meant to say that its difficult to read a chart for a crypto coin and use the same analysis you would on a dow listed stock or a commodity like LNG or Crude oil.
In this you would be correct, however that analysis fails only for the coins that have virtually no trading data or are only pump and dump scams, you can look at coins like BTC/BLK/DASH/etc, basically any coin with a decent trading volume and enough coins in supply to make a P&D hard for those that might try. The same goes for FX, you can utilize the same trading techniques as for any chart reading but it won't tell you when the a government does something like with CHF a few months ago that send the price either soaring or crashing. The longer term you look however, the more accurate your predictions can be, assuming you know how to read a chart. It amazes me how many people think they understand it but don't have the basics, or think I am a genius when I say its either going to do X or Y.

We're on the same page on this.  Reading a chart is reading a chart.  A P&D is as clear to see as the nose on my face.  But people come around all the time saying their going to apply real world trading algorithms to daily trading.  And then a dev goes silent for two months.  Or a whale decides he's got 10BTC he wants to spend on something silly.  Crypto is too dynamic to predict.  The only true strategy to winning here is to play the P&Ds or HODL legitimate coins.

Of course a merchant only cares about getting paid, but telling someone that they can take POTcoin for purchases AND get paid to have their wallet open and supporting the network helps to sell it.

This is the main point I want to challenge.  Merchants aren't going to leave the coins in their wallets.  You're talking a decade down the road when it's hopefully mainstream and the economy is full circle.  Right now, merchants, with no real adoption, are going to take POT and immediately turn it into BTC.  With the history of the coin, would you seriously risk not cashing out when you're trying to maintain a balanced business ledger?  With POS, and POW too, a single person(with confirmation nodes) could keep the chain running.  I kept KDC running on POW for a few months by myself.  This becomes more of a debate on fundamental crypto philosophy- support the chain or support yourself.  Merchants will most likely chose the later.

What do you say to people (specifically merchants) who want to be able to move their coins but can't do it because they're staking? That has always been overlooked in POS systems. Sure its great you get interest but if you actually want to use the currency? no interest for you. Or worse, they do stake the coins and then can't use them when they need them. That will frustrate people into not using this coin. Not everybody, but some. Usability should be more important than gaining interest.

This is the most on-point comment and question yet.  Merchants will want to move the coins, not leave them sitting.

-Fuse

Community > Devs
fartbags
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 24, 2015, 01:43:16 AM
 #5530




PotCoin was trying to do this:
http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/22/green-bits-launches-point-of-sale-service-for-cannabis-shops/

The idea won 2nd place at tech diruptor SF 2015



Chronikka
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 500



View Profile
September 24, 2015, 01:55:35 AM
 #5531


I haven't followed either, so I wouldn't know about their dynamics.  Again though, inflation, supply, etc... it's all irrelevant without demand.  And I know we're pretty much arguing the same thing here, but I'm still in the mindset that you could probably make the max supply infinite and it wouldn't matter.  25k POT then is still worth 25k POT now.


Agree 100% with this. The talk about supply and demand is meaningless right now. There is no demand, the only people buying the coin are market speculators.

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination"  -Albert Einstein
rdyoung
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 24, 2015, 02:15:15 AM
 #5532

And this is why I don't converse much on here or reddit.

The simple fact that 2 people here think that supply is irrelevant and demand is everything while also saying that supply/demand doesn't apply to crypto is astounding. It highlights a clear lack of knowledge and grasp of market dynamics that control stocks/bonds and even entire economies, its the not the only factor to analyze and account for but it and its cousin inflation are the 2 major factors in what any market will do over the long term.

If we want to get back to people asking questions about how POS works, great, but I am bowing out of this ridiculous conversation before I have an aneurysm from the insanity.
ny2cafuse
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000


Criptoe Team member and Auroracoin Team member


View Profile
September 24, 2015, 02:56:20 AM
 #5533

And this is why I don't converse much on here or reddit.

The simple fact that 2 people here think that supply is irrelevant and demand is everything while also saying that supply/demand doesn't apply to crypto is astounding. It highlights a clear lack of knowledge and grasp of market dynamics that control stocks/bonds and even entire economies, its the not the only factor to analyze and account for but it and its cousin inflation are the 2 major factors in what any market will do over the long term.

If we want to get back to people asking questions about how POS works, great, but I am bowing out of this ridiculous conversation before I have an aneurysm from the insanity.

At this point supply is irrelevant mate.  There is no clear use for POT right now aside from a few niche merchants and trading.  POT is just a speculation coin atm.  This is the same argument had months ago with the previous devs/community.  Create the "demand" and then we can talk about supply/inflation issues.

I agree that traditional market dynamics will play out over the long term.  But there has to be long term... there still isn't even a short term.  So getting all worked up about the finite details of the POT economic system at this point in time is kind of silly, mate.

-Fuse

Community > Devs
fartbags
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 24, 2015, 03:37:41 AM
 #5534

And this is why I don't converse much on here or reddit.

The simple fact that 2 people here think that supply is irrelevant and demand is everything while also saying that supply/demand doesn't apply to crypto is astounding. It highlights a clear lack of knowledge and grasp of market dynamics that control stocks/bonds and even entire economies, its the not the only factor to analyze and account for but it and its cousin inflation are the 2 major factors in what any market will do over the long term.

If we want to get back to people asking questions about how POS works, great, but I am bowing out of this ridiculous conversation before I have an aneurysm from the insanity.

At this point supply is irrelevant mate.  There is no clear use for POT right now aside from a few niche merchants and trading.  POT is just a speculation coin atm.  This is the same argument had months ago with the previous devs/community.  Create the "demand" and then we can talk about supply/inflation issues.

I agree that traditional market dynamics will play out over the long term.  But there has to be long term... there still isn't even a short term.  So getting all worked up about the finite details of the POT economic system at this point in time is kind of silly, mate.

-Fuse



Here is a clear use case:
http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/22/green-bits-launches-point-of-sale-service-for-cannabis-shops/


I'm surprised there is no PotCoin store yet. There was so much popularity around PotCoin yet no one is interested in starting a business that grows marijuana, sells marijuana exclusively for PotCoin.

Other than snoop dogg, PotCoin is probably the biggest brand. It could become the budweiser of pot.



We must all be too high to figure out all the rules to grow and sell marijuana.





CartmanSPC
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1256
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
September 24, 2015, 07:53:40 AM
 #5535

What do you say to people (specifically merchants) who want to be able to move their coins but can't do it because they're staking? That has always been overlooked in POS systems. Sure its great you get interest but if you actually want to use the currency? no interest for you. Or worse, they do stake the coins and then can't use them when they need them. That will frustrate people into not using this coin. Not everybody, but some. Usability should be more important than gaining interest.
This is the most on-point comment and question yet.  Merchants will want to move the coins, not leave them sitting.

Perhaps we should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake? We could make it so that in order to stake you have to enable it in addition to unlocking for staking.

BitcoinNational
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1008



View Profile
September 24, 2015, 08:00:50 AM
 #5536

to all stake coin devs ... you should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake ... i am almost willing to dump a coin completely if the devs are unable to code in this feature ...

ny2cafuse
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000


Criptoe Team member and Auroracoin Team member


View Profile
September 24, 2015, 01:25:29 PM
 #5537

What do you say to people (specifically merchants) who want to be able to move their coins but can't do it because they're staking? That has always been overlooked in POS systems. Sure its great you get interest but if you actually want to use the currency? no interest for you. Or worse, they do stake the coins and then can't use them when they need them. That will frustrate people into not using this coin. Not everybody, but some. Usability should be more important than gaining interest.
This is the most on-point comment and question yet.  Merchants will want to move the coins, not leave them sitting.

Perhaps we should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake? We could make it so that in order to stake you have to enable it in addition to unlocking for staking.

This would be a pretty decent approach to solving that problem.  It's a lot better than telling them they need to set a reserve balance in a conf file somewhere buried in their file system.

If they want to stake they can.  They just need to check a checkbox to do it.

-Fuse

Community > Devs
neordicICE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 506
Merit: 500


View Profile
September 24, 2015, 01:26:37 PM
 #5538

to all stake coin devs ... you should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake ... i am almost willing to dump a coin completely if the devs are unable to code in this feature ...

I totally agree with you. We need to be placed 1st in the priority que.
rdyoung
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 24, 2015, 02:06:57 PM
 #5539

What do you say to people (specifically merchants) who want to be able to move their coins but can't do it because they're staking? That has always been overlooked in POS systems. Sure its great you get interest but if you actually want to use the currency? no interest for you. Or worse, they do stake the coins and then can't use them when they need them. That will frustrate people into not using this coin. Not everybody, but some. Usability should be more important than gaining interest.
This is the most on-point comment and question yet.  Merchants will want to move the coins, not leave them sitting.

Perhaps we should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake? We could make it so that in order to stake you have to enable it in addition to unlocking for staking.

This would be a pretty decent approach to solving that problem.  It's a lot better than telling them they need to set a reserve balance in a conf file somewhere buried in their file system.

If they want to stake they can.  They just need to check a checkbox to do it.

-Fuse

This makes NO Fing sense. First your suggesting that people NOT encrypt and lock their wallet, 2nd, it would make it less likely that people would stake and support the network.
The better option is to have a manual "stop staking" check box in settings or in one of the drop down menus, I have to be blunt here, I thought I read some stupid shit on another forum this morning but this takes the cake. Remember kids, this is a Proof of STAKE coin, staked coins is how new blocks are minted to carry the txs into the chain, without coins actively staking the network doesn't move and the coin is worthless.

Research has shown that getting people to opt out of something has more people "opting in" by default than expecting people to "opt in" knowingly.
There has been a push in many states to get the "opt in" as an organ donor reversed to an opt out, if its against your personal beliefs and morals, opt out, but for everyone else who doesn't think about it, it would save many many more lives than expecting people to "opt in".

In short, We don't need a checkbox for opt in or out of staking, all you have to do is tell the merchant to LOCK their wallet and leave it locked. I am also amazed that anyone here would think that a merchant would need to access any POT coins taken in right at the time of sale, apparently you have never run a business that takes in funds for purchases of goods or services, most if not all high volume stores use a safe, some use whats called a drop safe where only 1 or 2 people have access to it, cash thats over the limit for the stores comfort level goes into the safe and it gets counted and dealt with at the end of the day, its not needed during business hours. 
rdyoung
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 24, 2015, 02:16:32 PM
 #5540

And this is why I don't converse much on here or reddit.

The simple fact that 2 people here think that supply is irrelevant and demand is everything while also saying that supply/demand doesn't apply to crypto is astounding. It highlights a clear lack of knowledge and grasp of market dynamics that control stocks/bonds and even entire economies, its the not the only factor to analyze and account for but it and its cousin inflation are the 2 major factors in what any market will do over the long term.

If we want to get back to people asking questions about how POS works, great, but I am bowing out of this ridiculous conversation before I have an aneurysm from the insanity.

At this point supply is irrelevant mate.  There is no clear use for POT right now aside from a few niche merchants and trading.  POT is just a speculation coin atm.  This is the same argument had months ago with the previous devs/community.  Create the "demand" and then we can talk about supply/inflation issues.

I agree that traditional market dynamics will play out over the long term.  But there has to be long term... there still isn't even a short term.  So getting all worked up about the finite details of the POT economic system at this point in time is kind of silly, mate.

-Fuse

New Supply is partially irrelevant NOW that we have moved to POSv and the inflation rate is 5-6%, the Supply in circulation is worth taking into account, there is currently 25% of the entire supply actively staking, this means that 25% is not on the exchanges to be used to manipulate the price, we have another 25% in addresses that hasn't moved in at least 6 months, I did the math yesterday with the help of the rich list and a spreadsheet. This means that we have 50% of the coins either actively staking or in cold storage, this leaves us with 106ish million coins that are likely to be available to absorb new btc or usd coming into the market, thats 424btc or $97.5k at the current rate. IMO everything is lined up for this coin to start climbing if we can get a few things handled. First for POT to be the weed coin it needs a coinbase or circle like site that lets people get in and out at will, this would also make it easier to get merchants on board if they could cashout to usd if they needed to or at least until the loop is closed and suppliers are on board. This site would also give the average joe/jane a way to buy 10$ worth of potcoin to test the waters and get into the POS coins. At POTs current exchange rate you could easily get people to put in what they would spend on a soda or a pack of cigarettes and the # of coins they would get for that price would be astronomical compared to BTC or the top POS coins.


No one is getting worked up about anything, I am simply flabbergasted that someone who seems to have a decent base of knowledge to pull from would try and make the point that inflation and supply/demand are irrelevant and not worth considering. I look more at the longer term than the day2day or minute2minute. I tried day trading FX and stocks and the constant entry and exit just isn't my style, I prefer to look at whats going to happen over 3-5 or 5-10 years this way I have a greater chance at being right and more importantly, profitable.
I was under the impression that there were at least a few real stores and websites that took potcoin as a payment method.  I am also wondering what YOU are doing to help grow POT if your intent is to help? Or are you here just for the conversation and to tell people what needs done?

Wondering what I am doing? I and a business partner are getting ready to launch a website that will let people buy small amounts of POT and virtually every other POS coin with multiple payment methods, mainly PP for now the others are still being worked out. This site will also host DL links for "quick start" packs for as many POS coins as I can handle, bootstrap included to get people up and running with the most haste.
Pages: « 1 ... 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 [277] 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 ... 379 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!