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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1813435 times)
superresistant
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July 29, 2014, 12:20:33 PM
 #1801

Another thing I'm curious about is this: if the value of ether reaches a higher value after genesis block (and btw, what's with all the bible references? "genesis block", "exodus address", "serpent" programming language???) than it was sold in the pre-sale, and then massive amounts of ether are sold for bitcoin, how is that going to work? You would have to have buyers equal and greater to the number of buyers in the presale in order for all that ether to be unloaded and picked up in buy orders. But since everyone who supports and knows about Ethereum will buy in the presale, then there will be no demand left after the presale and no buyers. So the value would logically have to drop to a lower value after Ethereum goes live, right?
A ton of supply and barely any demand.

Yes, you got it.

I predict a painful loss between 50% to 75% for those who will sell during the first dump.
I may buy some of yours for less than 25% of what you paid.

Also this is implying Ethereum will ever go live which you investors have no guarantee.
In the case of non-delivery, expect a very painful loss of 100% of your investment.

Sleep well investors !
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TwinWinNerD
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July 29, 2014, 12:45:22 PM
 #1802

I was first to accept in this thread. I have PMed smaragda. I should be on other side of bet. Leaving home to make an errand does not preclude someone else taking my place.

TwinWinNerD's bet has been matched by windjc...  Bets Closed!   Cool

Kinda feeling pretty good about this bet.  Wink

Haha yes looks not bad but I expect many people to wait for the end of the 2000 period to invest. It is a long time to go still! Wink

drawingthesun
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July 29, 2014, 12:59:19 PM
 #1803

What are the possible use cases for Ethereum?

I have seen these proposals:

- Issue assets and allow assets to be traded decentralized. (Similar to Nxt Asset Exchange.)
- Create a Namecoin competitor domain name system.
- Issue your own coins on top of Ethereum, these will have the following advantages and disadvantages compared to native cryptocoins.
--{Advantage} They can truly be apart of a decentralized exchange.
--{Disadvantage} They will probably be slower than their native counterparts.
- Run code for DAC's, although I am not sure how sophisticated a DAC could be.

The main thing is that code on Ethereum can only read and write to the Ethereum blockchain. Is this correct?
nakaone
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July 29, 2014, 01:07:28 PM
 #1804

Another thing I'm curious about is this: if the value of ether reaches a higher value after genesis block (and btw, what's with all the bible references? "genesis block", "exodus address", "serpent" programming language???) than it was sold in the pre-sale, and then massive amounts of ether are sold for bitcoin, how is that going to work? You would have to have buyers equal and greater to the number of buyers in the presale in order for all that ether to be unloaded and picked up in buy orders. But since everyone who supports and knows about Ethereum will buy in the presale, then there will be no demand left after the presale and no buyers. So the value would logically have to drop to a lower value after Ethereum goes live, right?
A ton of supply and barely any demand.

Yes, you got it.

I predict a painful loss between 50% to 75% for those who will sell during the first dump.
I may buy some of yours for less than 25% of what you paid.

Also this is implying Ethereum will ever go live which you investors have no guarantee.
In the case of non-delivery, expect a very painful loss of 100% of your investment.

Sleep well investors !


just out of curiosity, because many people expect prices lower than in the ipo - why should someone sell below 1btc=2000eth? the only reason I see is an explosion in btc market cap and people valueing their investments in $ instead of btc. the more interesting thing is inflation - with 28% in the first year (?) it is not that high.
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July 29, 2014, 01:49:25 PM
 #1805

Superresistant, don't use my words to support your agendas. I am asking questions which I am truly curious about, I'm not trying to smear Ethereum as you are. People here keep using words like "dump", "investment", "IPO", and these words are not relevant because Ethereum is not an altcoin, and ethers are not a currency, they are tokens to be used to work within the Ethereum space and create and use DApps. Legally, ethers are considered purchased software.

Believe it or not, many people have bought ethers simply to support the efforts of the developers to create a decentralized foundation for a new internet, and they are not looking to pump and dump when it hits the market. F***ing wall street mentality.

I am so tired of listening to people like superresistant, who talk crap about everything and don't know anything. Free speech is a right that we all value but it aspires to create good ideas and have real communication. People like superresistant fill the threads with the written equivalent of cow manure. Stop stinking up this forum.

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Ursium
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July 29, 2014, 02:36:28 PM
 #1806

Also, in the youtube video you provided of Gavin's presentation, the question/answer part of the presentation which happened after his speech was cut out from this version. When I watched this some time ago, I found the Q and A part to be the most interesting and informative part of the speech. Do you have a link to the FULL version, unedited?

It's still very much up at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSMbBsdE45U

I'll trace back your questions. I find it very difficult to deal with this thread between the 'satanic vitalik' comments and the 'scam' libel. It's not exactly super motivating to wake up to this, which I guess, is the whole point of trolling.

To be fair you're much better off jumping our forums at this point, http://forum.ethereum.org.

Ethereum Twitter: @ethereumproject - Blog: blog.ethereum.org - Forum: forum.ethereum.org - Github: github.com/ethereum
BigOrangeBee
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July 29, 2014, 05:12:29 PM
 #1807



To be fair you're much better off jumping our forums at this point, http://forum.ethereum.org.

Ok I will go there then.

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profitofthegods
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July 29, 2014, 05:24:28 PM
 #1808

I wasn't aware that Ethereum was working on a decentralized internet...

That's pretty much the whole purpose of our project MemoryShock Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJGIeSCgskc

Skip to 50:00 for screenshots or refer to this handy pdf of the slides:

http://www.slideshare.net/ethereum/the-ethereum-experience

Great slideshow. I also wasn't aware that it the project had such a broad remit. Very impressive
mladen00
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July 29, 2014, 06:09:18 PM
 #1809

Very impressive,
for now i invest 0,5BTC. by the end of IPO i will invest 0,0001 x marketcap of ipo; I expect mc 10000 - 12000 btc.

IOTA
deadliftbrah
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July 29, 2014, 06:14:23 PM
 #1810

Vitalik Buterin - Pretty sure he isn't poppin bottles with bitches on my bitcoin #ethertrust

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDGq4aeevgY#t=135
illodin
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July 29, 2014, 07:02:04 PM
 #1811

What I don't understand about Ethereum is this: How are you going to create a whole entire new internet on a blockchain and not have it lag?
Look at how slow bitcoin is now, after only a few years of existence, and its only processing bitcoin transactions.
How can you build a sustainable decentralized internet on a blockchain and not have it bloat up, slow down and freeze?


MemoryShock
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July 29, 2014, 08:07:19 PM
 #1812

I wasn't aware that Ethereum was working on a decentralized internet...

That's pretty much the whole purpose of our project MemoryShock Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJGIeSCgskc

Skip to 50:00 for screenshots or refer to this handy pdf of the slides:

http://www.slideshare.net/ethereum/the-ethereum-experience


Thank you for that; I somehow missed that in all of the reading I was doing.

Any plans to work with Maidsafe or are they a competitor?

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msin
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July 29, 2014, 08:39:46 PM
 #1813

I wasn't aware that Ethereum was working on a decentralized internet...

That's pretty much the whole purpose of our project MemoryShock Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJGIeSCgskc

Skip to 50:00 for screenshots or refer to this handy pdf of the slides:

http://www.slideshare.net/ethereum/the-ethereum-experience


Thank you for that; I somehow missed that in all of the reading I was doing.

Any plans to work with Maidsafe or are they a competitor?

They are most definitely a competitor and probably not even on Ethereum's radar. 
profitofthegods
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July 29, 2014, 09:01:14 PM
 #1814

I wasn't aware that Ethereum was working on a decentralized internet...

That's pretty much the whole purpose of our project MemoryShock Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJGIeSCgskc

Skip to 50:00 for screenshots or refer to this handy pdf of the slides:

http://www.slideshare.net/ethereum/the-ethereum-experience


Thank you for that; I somehow missed that in all of the reading I was doing.

Any plans to work with Maidsafe or are they a competitor?

They are most definitely a competitor and probably not even on Ethereum's radar. 

Not on Ethereum's radar? It seems to me that pre-Maidsafe Ethereum was all about Decentralized Autonomous Organisations and contracts, and now its all about Decentralized Apps and making a new internet. Don't get me wrong - I like the expansion to cover more different things, but I suspect it was partly inspired by Maidsafe.
BetMoose
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July 29, 2014, 09:10:46 PM
 #1815

I was first to accept in this thread. I have PMed smaragda. I should be on other side of bet. Leaving home to make an errand does not preclude someone else taking my place.

TwinWinNerD's bet has been matched by windjc...  Bets Closed!   Cool

Kinda feeling pretty good about this bet.  Wink

Haha yes looks not bad but I expect many people to wait for the end of the 2000 period to invest. It is a long time to go still! Wink

If anyone is looking for more action on this don't forget this bet is live for the next 35 days. Betting early adds weight to your bet so if you're super sure of the total sale amount, we recommend you place now now.

https://www.betmoose.com/bet/total-ether-sold-will-exceed-25-000-btc-659

BetMoose.com - Wager on real world events. Profit from predicting the future. Create and share your own contracts.
msin
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July 29, 2014, 09:27:15 PM
 #1816


They are most definitely a competitor and probably not even on Ethereum's radar. 

Not on Ethereum's radar? It seems to me that pre-Maidsafe Ethereum was all about Decentralized Autonomous Organisations and contracts, and now its all about Decentralized Apps and making a new internet. Don't get me wrong - I like the expansion to cover more different things, but I suspect it was partly inspired by Maidsafe.

Yes, I was more referring to the willingness to work with Maidafe in general, which I think not a chance.
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July 29, 2014, 09:43:23 PM
 #1817

Ursium Hi,

Few questions on how ether the token can gain value:

Obviously, the more demand for the token, the more value it will generate. However, specifically:

1) will if be required as a fee for every transaction? is there a fee structure?

2) will dac's be required to use ether to found themselves and pay dividends in ether only or will they be able to pay dividends in any currency including BTC? 

3) what are the other example of uses for ether that will drive its REAL value in the short and longer term aside from speculation.

4) can ether become a currency like token with which i'll be able to buy in overstock for example (which will accept ether as they are BTC) or will it only be used as a currency for applications on top of the ethereum platform?


Thanks
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July 30, 2014, 07:41:16 AM
 #1818

Sinkhole Cheesy

mcjavar
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July 30, 2014, 12:53:48 PM
 #1819

Also, in the youtube video you provided of Gavin's presentation, the question/answer part of the presentation which happened after his speech was cut out from this version. When I watched this some time ago, I found the Q and A part to be the most interesting and informative part of the speech. Do you have a link to the FULL version, unedited?

It's still very much up at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSMbBsdE45U

I'll trace back your questions. I find it very difficult to deal with this thread between the 'satanic vitalik' comments and the 'scam' libel. It's not exactly super motivating to wake up to this, which I guess, is the whole point of trolling.

To be fair you're much better off jumping our forums at this point, http://forum.ethereum.org.

In this case, the 8000BTC you already got, should provide enough motivation to answer all questions here.
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July 30, 2014, 05:07:20 PM
 #1820


In this case, the 8000BTC you already got, should provide enough motivation to answer all questions here.

Hehe, I think the opposite rule would apply. Why should he answer all questions here? They already got 8000 BTC.

I keep wondering about what this ether sale really is, though. It very much looks more like a crowdfunding event than an investment or a software sale. There has been a lot of attention given to the financial and legal aspects of Ethereum, not to mention the massive PR effort on the part of the developers/founders. A lot of the technical issues, like the problem of blockchain bloat are problems "to be dealt with in time" but these are problems that absolutely cripple the chances of Ethereum even working and fulfilling its endeavors.

Unlike past large scale explosions of technology from the open source community, for example, Linux, the business side of this has not been ignored, and the product is not being offered for free as all open source has been in the past. The Ethereum client (inside a browser or eventually an OS) might be offered for free, however, you would not be able to use it without ethers, which cost money.

So there are huge efforts in the business, legal, and PR aspects of this, which we have never seen before in the past. And many of the technical problems with actually making the software work are being pushed off to be dealt with at a later time. That undermines my confidence in it.

Although, I do believe its time for developers and the "smart people" of the world to get the financial compensation that they deserve. And this might be why the founders have put so much effort into the business and legal side. Developers, techies, and "geeks" worldwide have been exploited and forced to take small compensation for work that their employers or clients would never be able to do or even understand. The true order should be that the smartest people should be the bosses, and not be exploited by people less intelligent than themselves.

So in that way, I respect how the Ethereum founders have taken the business side very seriously, and hopefully they will raise the standard for open source software globally. There's too many intelligent people doing hard work for zero or very little pay, trying to support their efforts on only donations. It's certainly time to change that, when their efforts are so important, for example, Wikipedia is a huge and very important source of information for the world and they live on donations.

Back to the ether sale. Despite what I wrote above, I think 2000 ether per 1 bitcoin, is a very HIGH price to pay for a token that has no value yet in anything but Ethereum, which is a software that still has so many technical issues to accomplish if it will survive long term.

But my confusion lies in whether I believe the founders really care whether Ethereum survives long term. This I can't decide. From my research, it seems to me that all the effort put into Ethereum has culminated to this point, the ether sale, and this is the harvest for the seeds that have been planted many months ago. I have heard things being mentioned by the founders (they like to be called founders, not devs) which suggest that their efforts were to get to this point and after Ethereum goes live, they seek to recruit a new team to take over and continue the project. I'm not sure if that is correct, but that was my impression from some of things being said by them. I could be wrong there.

But 0.0005 bitcoin per 1 ether is a very high initial price for something that will only be used by developers at first to build applications. But if you're quick enough, it may be worth it. My feeling is that hype and PR are a huge part of this, and very key and important people who were responsible for getting bitcoin off its feet and into the mainstream are the same people who are involved with Ethereum. There are certainly HUGE whales behind this project.

So regarding the value of ethers: I think it will pump above the pre-sale price initially with help from PR and hype, and several large whales who want to see this project succeed. Then after the dust settles, a few weeks or months after it goes live, I believe the value will fall to below the pre-sale price.

This is all pure speculation and I really have no idea. Just trying to work out my thoughts on this in a public space and hopefully get some feedback from people who have no investment in its success or failure, and are able to give an objective opinion.

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