[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[gutshot5820]

If you study the potential of the bitcoin protocol and it is very clear that the power of the platform is currently vastly underutilised. Yes there are built in contracts, escrow, and other complex operations, but these are barely utilised, in spite of them being desperately needed by the bitcoin community and ecosystem.
I don't know the developers and I'm not technically qualified to say for sure, but the next years Google could look just like this.
One of the interesting things about buying/mining any coin is that you not only get the value of the coin and the ability to spend it, but also it is a share in the business of the coin, much like a stock market share. Why complain about them raising 20million when you'd prefer it was 2 million.

Clearly bitcoin is going to be big business - if you want to win it makes sense to be well funded, or you'll get squashed by the next guy.

Time will tell if these guys succeed or crash, but this should be looked at as more than a speculative currency investment - it is taking a stake in the development of a promising new technology.

Personally I'm bullish about bitcoin, but not (just) as a speculator. I'm bullish about the protocol and how it is going to impact the future.

I see bitcoin as being on par with social media or the internet. We are at the very start, but its the programming and contract potential that will be the long term value. The currency aspect will be important, but that's just a special use case of something much more powerful. I've got a lot more interest in what these guys are doing than the next Dogecoin, that's for sure!

As to the people who said "they aren't even going to build the apps for you!" - that's like complaining that the internet sucked as an invention because it didn't have facebook yet.

I call bullshit on everything you wrote.  This coin has a very minimal chance to survive in the long run.  Is there some innovation?  Probably yes.  Is there a huge chance that it will fail?  Yes.  Will there be another coin with more innovative features around the corner?  Yes.  If you think this coin has any chance of overtaking Bitcoin, you are smoking crack.  Do these guys really need all 36 million and 50% of the pre-mine to survive and compete?  Fawk no.  A venture capitalist would only give them just enough money to pay for expenses and the rest in shares based on the success of the coin.  These guys are not trying to fund the project, they are trying to Frackin be millionaires before the launch of the coin.  They are taking ZERO risks and putting the burden of the 36 million they will have in their bank accounts on the Bitcoin community. 

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[que23]

Hello Vitalik! Quick question! Is there a minimum amount required for initial investment? On the blog you wrote:

...on February 1, the fundraiser will begin, at which point anyone will be able to obtain some of the initial pre-allocated ether (Ethereum's internal currency) at a rate of 1000-2000 ether for 1 BTC by going to http://fund.ethereum.org. The fundraiser will run throughout February and March, and early funders will get higher rewards; anyone who sends money in the first seven days will receive the full 2000 ether, then 1980 ether on the 8th day, 1960 on the 9th day, and so forth until the baseline rate of 1000 ether per BTC is retained for the last three days of the fundraiser.

Will the minimum purchase be 1 BTC worth or will you be able to purchase with .5BTC or less for example? I think there are a lot of people who don't have thousands to invest but still want to get involved early on. Me being one of them 

min is .01btc

[gutshot5820]

Hello Vitalik! Quick question! Is there a minimum amount required for initial investment? On the blog you wrote:

...on February 1, the fundraiser will begin, at which point anyone will be able to obtain some of the initial pre-allocated ether (Ethereum's internal currency) at a rate of 1000-2000 ether for 1 BTC by going to http://fund.ethereum.org. The fundraiser will run throughout February and March, and early funders will get higher rewards; anyone who sends money in the first seven days will receive the full 2000 ether, then 1980 ether on the 8th day, 1960 on the 9th day, and so forth until the baseline rate of 1000 ether per BTC is retained for the last three days of the fundraiser.

Will the minimum purchase be 1 BTC worth or will you be able to purchase with .5BTC or less for example? I think there are a lot of people who don't have thousands to invest but still want to get involved early on. Me being one of them 

min is .01btc

Why in the world would anyone buy this coin pre-sale is beyond me.  This coin is going to be way way undersold.  There is going to be a huge coin dump to compensate and you will be able to buy them for huge discounts aftermarket.  Do not enable this type of behaviour from coin devs.  Do they deserve to make a ton of money for their efforts?  Yes, if the the coin succeeds.  Do they need to be millionaires before the launch and before we see progress or pretty much anything?  WTF?  They want the entire Bitcoin community to pay them 36 million dollars plus salary plus 50% of the mine before launch.  For what? They must think we are all frackin idiots.

[_ingsoc]

I don't normally make these kinds of posts, or even bother with an account, but Bitcointalk has really deteriorated since I first saw it. Half the people on here can't even construct a proper sentence, but for some reason think we should all hear what they have to say, no matter how asinine the crap they shout over and over.

I've got a couple of points, if you care enough to read:

(1) These guys are trying to build something interesting here. They've put thought into it and a lot of energy. You need to learn how to respect someone else's work, even if you disagree with it. If the whole world operated like the people posting on Bitcointalk, we would live in a real-life idiocracy. Take a step back and realise you're just smearing crap on the walls someone else built through hard work - what have you done?

(2) If you do come to the conclusion that you don't like the project, that's fine. Try and make a statement that's rational and move on. People are shouting about devs demanding millions of dollars when nobody is demanding anything, how young Vitalik is when that has zero impact on anything (can't imagine what you were like at 19 - Lord help us), or this totally irrational obsession with premine = bad when the roads you drive on and the water you drink got premined and delivered to your tires and orifices through some type of social organisation.

(3) We don't live in a fantasy world where devs are free. People need to eat and can't develop something as significant as this project over many years without getting paid. The BTC raised will be completely transparent and go to actually making this happen (and that'll be transparent as well). If you knew anything about project development, let alone cryptocurrency development, you would know how incredibly hard it is to find competent developers. They have those and the contacts to get more. In fact, if you did a little bit of research, you would know there's constant activity of totally open code being written on a near daily basis already.

(4) The founders need to have a vested interest, just like developers. They are the ones who will champion this project harder than anyone else. If there's no incentive for them to do so, what's the point? The founders are going to dedicate years of their lives to growing this project and creating value through building something that's novel. Most projects to date have been amateur hour, and the bar is being set pretty high with Ethereum - maybe that explains all the butthurt some people have about it. How about you look into what each of the founders have contributed to this community? I think you'll get a pretty good understanding of how significant this project is for the larger and future ecosystem if you do.

tl;dr Respect someone's hard work, learn to move on if you disagree, understand that making cool things costs money, and look at the bigger picture.

[gutshot5820]

I don't normally make these kinds of posts, or even bother with an account, but Bitcointalk has really deteriorated since I first saw it. Half the people on here can't even construct a proper sentence, but for some reason think we should all hear what they have to say, no matter how asinine the crap they shout over and over.

I've got a couple of points, if you care enough to read:

(1) These guys are trying to build something interesting here. They've put thought into it and a lot of energy. You need to learn how to respect someone else's work, even if you disagree with it. If the whole world operated like the people posting on Bitcointalk, we would live in a real-life idiocracy. Take a step back and realise you're just smearing crap on the walls someone else built through hard work - what have you done?

(2) If you do come to the conclusion that you don't like the project, that's fine. Try and make a statement that's rational and move on. People are shouting about devs demanding millions of dollars when nobody is demanding anything, how young Vitalik is when that has zero impact on anything (can't imagine what you were like at 19 - Lord help us), or this totally irrational obsession with premine = bad when the roads you drive on and the water you drink got premined and delivered to your tires and orifices through some type of social organisation.

(3) We don't live in a fantasy world where devs are free. People need to eat and can't develop something as significant as this project over many years without getting paid. The BTC raised will be completely transparent and go to actually making this happen (and that'll be transparent as well). If you knew anything about project development, let alone cryptocurrency development, you would know how incredibly hard it is to find competent developers. They have those and the contacts to get more. In fact, if you did a little bit of research, you would know there's constant activity of totally open code being written on a near daily basis already.

(4) The founders need to have a vested interest, just like developers. They are the ones who will champion this project harder than anyone else. If there's no incentive for them to do so, what's the point? The founders are going to dedicate years of their lives to growing this project and creating value through building something that's novel. Most projects to date have been amateur hour, and the bar is being set pretty high with Ethereum - maybe that explains all the butthurt some people have about it. How about you look into what each of the founders have contributed to this community? I think you'll get a pretty good understanding of how significant this project is for the larger and future ecosystem if you do.

tl;dr Respect someone's hard work, learn to move on if you disagree, understand that making cool things costs money, and look at the bigger picture.

You know what?  You are just a shill and yes these guys are frackin greedy bordering on thieving.  Do devs deserve to get paid, yes.  Do they deserve to rip people off, hell no.  The reason there is a decidedly negative stance on this is because people have a general sense of fairness and this is not it.

You want people to respect their hard work?  Show me what you are talking about.  Go to an investment banker, hire some attorneys and procure a prospectus and make it publicly available.  When you are asking people to fund 36 million dollars, there should be an adequate amount of due diligence available for prospective investors.  A youtube video and an advertisement on Bitcointalk forum is frackin not only hilarious its downright appalling.  You try going into a bank or venture capitalist's office and asking them for 36 million and 50% premine with absolutely no risk LMAO.  They would throw you out of the room and yet you have the gall to come on here and evangelize on why they deserve to get PAID and deserve our respect and money? Go kill yourself. Your sense of fairness is seriously warped. 

If no bank or venture capitalist in their right mind would fund this deal, why are they crowdsourcing?  Because they think coin investors are idiots.  You want respect for your work?  Go spend a few hundred thousand and hire an investment banker and attorneys to draw up a prospectus like any DECENT hardworking entrepreneurs would do that asks for 36 million plus from joe public.

[Burninj]

GOLDMAN SACHS INVOLVED IN YOUR PORJECT ARE YOU F... KIDDING ME

And you have the boldness to ask 30000 btc to fund it...

Only one thing to do : GO TO HELL!

[_ingsoc]

You know what?  You are just a shill and yes these guys are frackin greedy bordering on thieving.  Do devs deserve to get paid, yes.  Do they deserve to rip people off, hell no.  The reason there is a decidedly negative stance on this is because people have a general sense of fairness and this is not it.

You want people to respect their hard work?  Show me what you are talking about.  Go to an investment banker, hire some attorneys and procure a prospectus and make it publicly available.  When you are asking people to fund 36 million dollars, there should be an adequate amount of due diligence available for prospective investors.  A youtube video and an advertisement on Bitcointalk forum is frackin not only hilarious its downright appalling.  You try going into a bank or venture capitalist's office and asking them for 36 million and 50% premine with absolutely no risk LMAO.  They would throw you out of the room and yet you have the gall to come on here and evangelize on why they deserve to get PAID and deserve our respect and money? Go kill yourself. Your sense of fairness is seriously warped. 

If no bank or venture capitalist in their right mind would fund this deal, why are they crowdsourcing?  Because they think coin investors are idiots.  You want respect for your work?  Go spend a few hundred thousand and hire an investment banker and attorneys to draw up a prospectus like any DECENT hardworking entrepreneurs would do that asks for 36 million plus from joe public.

I'm a shill but you're screaming bloody murder? (1) A prospectus is coming prior to contributions (if you bothered to read half as much as you talk). Community funding is not investment banking. This is about people who care about what's proposed. (2) Where does it say anyone is demanding "36 million plus"? They could raise 2 Bitcoins and it'll go ahead. Read something, you're just embarrassing yourself.

[_ingsoc]

GOLDMAN SACHS INVOLVED IN YOUR PORJECT ARE YOU F... KIDDING ME

And you have the boldness to ask 30000 btc to fund it...

Only one thing to do : GO TO HELL!

Charles said "people who WORKED for Goldman Sachs" at 8:10 in the video. Didn't you hear him say there are giant wasps living under the UN building who are also involved?

[gutshot5820]

You know what?  You are just a shill and yes these guys are frackin greedy bordering on thieving.  Do devs deserve to get paid, yes.  Do they deserve to rip people off, hell no.  The reason there is a decidedly negative stance on this is because people have a general sense of fairness and this is not it.

You want people to respect their hard work?  Show me what you are talking about.  Go to an investment banker, hire some attorneys and procure a prospectus and make it publicly available.  When you are asking people to fund 36 million dollars, there should be an adequate amount of due diligence available for prospective investors.  A youtube video and an advertisement on Bitcointalk forum is frackin not only hilarious its downright appalling.  You try going into a bank or venture capitalist's office and asking them for 36 million and 50% premine with absolutely no risk LMAO.  They would throw you out of the room and yet you have the gall to come on here and evangelize on why they deserve to get PAID and deserve our respect and money? Go kill yourself. Your sense of fairness is seriously warped.  

If no bank or venture capitalist in their right mind would fund this deal, why are they crowdsourcing?  Because they think coin investors are idiots.  You want respect for your work?  Go spend a few hundred thousand and hire an investment banker and attorneys to draw up a prospectus like any DECENT hardworking entrepreneurs would do that asks for 36 million plus from joe public.

I'm a shill but you're screaming bloody murder? (1) A prospectus is coming prior to contributions (if you bothered to read half as much as you talk). Community funding is not investment banking. This is about people who care about what's proposed. (2) Where does it say anyone is demanding "36 million plus"? They could raise 2 Bitcoins and it'll go ahead. Read something, you're just embarrassing yourself.

Embarrassing myself, hardly.  Coming from a shill I take that with a grain of salt.  Yes, I'm screaming bloody murder, that's what I usually do when I seeing people tying to rob others in plain sight.  And yeah, they may well have to go with 2btc because I have a hard time believing many people will fall for your plan and you know what your friends are going to do to make up for the shortfall in pre-sell cash?  They are going to mine the crap out of the coin and unload on everyone because they want to get PAID in advance.  Youtube video and advertisement Bitcointalk for a two for 1 sale of ethereums on day one, please give us 36 million.  Sounds like a joke.

[gutshot5820]

GOLDMAN SACHS INVOLVED IN YOUR PORJECT ARE YOU F... KIDDING ME

And you have the boldness to ask 30000 btc to fund it...

Only one thing to do : GO TO HELL!

Charles said "people who WORKED for Goldman Sachs" at 8:10 in the video. Didn't you hear him say there are giant wasps living under the UN building who are also involved?

LOL you are working overtime to shill today. Are you going to go around to everyone's posts and start bashing posters.  You have the right in a free market to ask/beg people for 36 million and you are chastising people's right to complain or ask questions?  What kind of jerk are you and how much do you get paid to be a board monitor in your attempts to stifle any negative comments towards this huge money grab by your friends?

[jorneyflair]

Maybe a nice Idea, but again it's an investment scheme in it due to the limited supply of Etheres.

That are all nice functions, but I don't see, why in order to use them one has to buy into a highly speculative currency. In fact smart property, smart contracts, decentralized exchange, etc. Would all work better if issuers and and users of these wouldn't need to buy into a currency that is intended to get more and more expensive in order to use it.

I see really nice developments in crypto and it's cool that so many obviously smart people get involved in it.

But it's utterly disappointing, that everything build is at is core build only to make the early adopters rich. (Same thing with: Mastercoin, ProtoShares, Nxt, etc)

What all this people could accomplish if they would help develop Bitcoin?  

But it's utterly disappointing, that everything build is at is core build only to make the early adopters rich. (Same thing with: Mastercoin, ProtoShares, Nxt, etc) thats the point.

[gambitx]

I have to say I'm disgusted by this so called Ethereum fundraiser, i know they will make a lot of money simply because of the crypto currency craze. I don't doubt the technology but i think it is wrong to exploit people this way, i know for a fact this money will be used so that this small group of people buy homes, cars, and secure their financial future. On top of the fundraiser they want to own 50% of Ethereum, plus they want ongoing salary. Really this is disgusting.

If these people had ethics they would've capped the investment so that it covers their expenses and a little bit more, but they just want to become millionaires overnight. I bet you they are so excited about this because they know just how rich they are about to become.

I mean look at the idiots giving 100's of BTC to the daily IPO scams that go on here, everyday someone makes a IPO posts, ppl give them BTC one week later they run away.  i'm not saying Ethereum is a scam, it is definitely real but just goes to show how much of a craze crypto is.

it is also sad that the people making these projects are just pure greedy, rather than actually wanting to create real change and revolution like Satoshi did.

[ThePatient]

Ughh the devs do seem more and more greedy the more I look into this.

I wanted to invest, I just...ugh, Idk.

[Klonewars]

Sorry I had to post. I just watched the video and its true at 8.10 they mention some involved are from Goldman Sachs. I'm telling you do NOT trust this coin. I'm not saying you wont make money, in fact its got enough backing I bet that it may well be successful. But I can tell you now whether the founders know it or not they are being played by bigger powers than themselves. I was wondering when a bigg central bank connection would try to get its foot in door of digital currencies and here it is. You can guarantee that it was Goldman Sachs money that brought together an unsuspecting talented team to create this. Goldman is more than a bank they are the powers that be....The IPO even sounds like a shit IPO that Goldman has been involved in like Facebook etc. Buy it if you want, make some money and then never use this shit ever again......

I'm not shrill I have no reason other than knowing enough about Goldman Sachs and the banking elite that this has powerful elite written all over it. This is not against the founders I expect they were just rounded up and head hunted...

http://euro-med.dk/bil/goldman-sachs-20conquers-20europe.jpg

[gutshot5820]

Ughh the devs do seem more and more greedy the more I look into this.

I wanted to invest, I just...ugh, Idk.

If you want to invest wait until it hits the market.  The devs are going to unload a ton of ethereums to pay for the shortfall in pre-investment money.  I can guarantee you that.  If they can get people to buy aftermarket fine, let the market dictate how much they want to pay for the coins.

[_ingsoc]

LOL you are working overtime to shill today. Are you going to go around to everyone's posts and start bashing posters.  You have the right in a free market to ask/beg people for 36 million and you are chastising people's right to complain or ask questions?  What kind of jerk are you and how much do you get paid to be a board monitor in your attempts to stifle any negative comments towards this huge money grab by your friends?

Last I'm responding to you cause it'll just loop. I'm not involved in this project. In fact, if you look at my posts, you'll see I'm involved in a totally different cryptocurrency proposal. I'm expressing my opinion because I've seen you spread FUD over and over in this thread and it's drowning others out. I'm not bashing your posts either (you told me to kill myself in one of yours btw). What I'm trying to tell you is that nobody is asking for "36 million". I don't know where you got that, or what you misread, but it's just plain wrong, and if you just leave it like that, people will get confused because you keep posting it over and over. There is a hard cap of 30k BTC. They're not asking for that, they're saying if it reaches that, it would be ridiculous to allow it to keep going. They've got spending plans that will be made public that go up to a certain point, and I imagine it does not exceed that level, so that's where it's hard capped.

[_ingsoc]

If you want to invest wait until it hits the market.  The devs are going to unload a ton of ethereums to pay for the shortfall in pre-investment money.  I can guarantee you that.  If they can get people to buy aftermarket fine, let the market dictate how much they want to pay for the coins.

And another thing you're wrong about. More FUD. It's time-locked. They can't unload until way after those who contribute.

[_ingsoc]

Sorry I had to post. I just watched the video and its true at 8.10 they mention some involved are from Goldman Sachs. I'm telling you do NOT trust this coin. I'm not saying you wont make money, in fact its got enough backing I bet that it may well be successful. But I can tell you now whether the founders know it or not they are being played by bigger powers than themselves. I was wondering when a bigg central bank connection would try to get its foot in door of digital currencies and here it is. You can guarantee that it was Goldman Sachs money that brought together an unsuspecting talented team to create this. Goldman is more than a bank they are the powers that be....The IPO even sounds like a shit IPO that Goldman has been involved in like Facebook etc. Buy it if you want, make some money and then never use this shit ever again......

I'm not shrill I have no reason other than knowing enough about Goldman Sachs and the banking elite that this has powerful elite written all over it. This is not against the founders I expect they were just rounded up and head hunted...

http://euro-med.dk/bil/goldman-sachs-20conquers-20europe.jpg

The greatest conspiracy theory since Satoshi Nakamoto. Can we get this to the press?

[gutshot5820]

If you want to invest wait until it hits the market.  The devs are going to unload a ton of ethereums to pay for the shortfall in pre-investment money.  I can guarantee you that.  If they can get people to buy aftermarket fine, let the market dictate how much they want to pay for the coins.

And another thing you're wrong about. More FUD. It's time-locked. They can't unload until way after those who contribute.

Yea sure buddy, what about if they only raise 1 million?  They will have pre-mined 50% and part of that amount that was designated for investors will be used to unload.  I highly doubt those will be time-locked because if they raise only one million pre-sale they would not have the funding to pay all those wonderful salaries.  And you are getting decidedly annoying, you are like a walking billboard.  It would be wonderful if you would just come out and state exactly what your relationship with this group is and how much you are getting paid to shill on here.  You are like some campaign manager.

[gutshot5820]

Sorry I had to post. I just watched the video and its true at 8.10 they mention some involved are from Goldman Sachs. I'm telling you do NOT trust this coin. I'm not saying you wont make money, in fact its got enough backing I bet that it may well be successful. But I can tell you now whether the founders know it or not they are being played by bigger powers than themselves. I was wondering when a bigg central bank connection would try to get its foot in door of digital currencies and here it is. You can guarantee that it was Goldman Sachs money that brought together an unsuspecting talented team to create this. Goldman is more than a bank they are the powers that be....The IPO even sounds like a shit IPO that Goldman has been involved in like Facebook etc. Buy it if you want, make some money and then never use this shit ever again......

I'm not shrill I have no reason other than knowing enough about Goldman Sachs and the banking elite that this has powerful elite written all over it. This is not against the founders I expect they were just rounded up and head hunted...

http://euro-med.dk/bil/goldman-sachs-20conquers-20europe.jpg

The greatest conspiracy theory since Satoshi Nakamoto. Can we get this to the press?

Wow talk about embarrassing yourself.  Now you are just getting aggressive with the posters to the point of harassment.  I'm actually considering making a call to the US Attorney's office about you and your friend's involvement in raising this amount of money.  I'm not sure raising the amount of capital you are thinking about with these procedures is entirely legal.