Nenolod, the guy that wants to prove Bitcoin doesn't work.

[redengin]

  i also believe that aspect of bitcoin serves as a detractor towards using it, simply because many businesses do not want to be associated with crazy libertarian government conspiracy views.  but frankly, the politics do not matter, what matters is the underlying system, and that is mostly sound.

there is a person on the IRC channel, you may know him   his name is Diablo-D3.  many people i know who have looked at bitcoin for their projects run away because they get a vibe that the project is in general filled up with people who are like Diablo-D3

I second this.  The channel's snr falls to zero when these ppl stumble in, to pose their poorly understood rants on monetary policy and devotion to bitcoin.  Its getting to the point that some people are treating the hashing of a block as some sort of personal achievement, which will make that first trade tantamount to giving up their first born.  Hard to imagine the market taking off with this kind of logic anchoring it in place.

[Bitcoiner]

""I ran bitcoin for two weeks and all I got were two roasted balls!" "

FTW

[Cdecker]

The whole episode seems to have turned out in favor of BitCoin, and not against it :-)

Nenolod apparently has some plans for us and his BitCoins, and I'm curious on what he will do 

[Anonymous]

The whole episode seems to have turned out in favor of BitCoin, and not against it :-)

Nenolod apparently has some plans for us and his BitCoins, and I'm curious on what he will do 

Probably establish a game like wow using bitcoins as currency.He mentioned that bitcoins are the perfect virtual money for that type of thing.

[throughput]

The whole episode seems to have turned out in favor of BitCoin, and not against it :-)

Nenolod apparently has some plans for us and his BitCoins, and I'm curious on what he will do 

Probably establish a game like wow using bitcoins as currency.He mentioned that bitcoins are the perfect virtual money for that type of thing.

He may aswell, just disintegrate that bitcoins. Just for fun.
How many bitcoins does he own now?

[Red]

He may aswell, just disintegrate that bitcoins. Just for fun.
How many bitcoins does he own now?

No one can disintegrate bitcoins even if it were fun. The only thing you can do is decide NOT to spend them. Whoopee! What a blast!

It really doesn't matter how many coins he is NOT circulating. What's important are the ones which are.

[Anonymous]

The whole episode seems to have turned out in favor of BitCoin, and not against it :-)

Nenolod apparently has some plans for us and his BitCoins, and I'm curious on what he will do 

Probably establish a game like wow using bitcoins as currency.He mentioned that bitcoins are the perfect virtual money for that type of thing.

He may aswell, just disintegrate that bitcoins. Just for fun.
How many bitcoins does he own now?

Bitcoins never leave you unlike your wife lol

[throughput]

He may aswell, just disintegrate that bitcoins. Just for fun.
How many bitcoins does he own now?

No one can disintegrate bitcoins even if it were fun. The only thing you can do is decide NOT to spend them. Whoopee! What a blast!

It really doesn't matter how many coins he is NOT circulating. What's important are the ones which are.

So, I can't send coins to a random BitCoin address, so they become blocked forever?
And disintegrated for me.
And that will reduce the volume, that is circulating.
And the total volume is limited, curculating or not.
How much value may he collect over time?

[Red]

So, I can't send coins to a random BitCoin address, so they become blocked forever?
And disintegrated for me.
And that will reduce the volume, that is circulating.
And the total volume is limited, curculating or not.
How much value may he collect over time?

Assigning coins to no one, is exactly equivalent to hoarding them. Which is exactly equivalent to losing your wallet keys.
The result is the same. No one will notice or care. If you are having trouble grasping this

No one knows what coins he has. No one is begging him for them because no one needs them. So if he hoards them or loses them it makes no difference.

Now if he were to spend them, he might have some effect on supply and demand. But NOT SPENDING them can have no effect, the lack of his coins is already priced into the market as they say.

[throughput]

Assigning coins to no one, is exactly equivalent to hoarding them. Which is exactly equivalent to losing your wallet keys.
The result is the same. No one will notice or care. If you are having trouble grasping this

Oh, really. And you see no difference in the long run between hoarding of very large quantities of $$ and putting them all of fire?
If you burn 10 teradollars, then you will make America happier, since no one will notice or care, that somebody's federal reserve is printing extra 10 Tdollars.
But if you suddenly buy currencies or securities for all of your hoarded 10Tdollars, I hope everybody know what happens?

This is different with BitCoin, since the system need some coins to operate and their number is limited.
I just was curious about whether someone is able to collect significant amounts of coins.
It seems, that you believe that is not possible, anyway, thanks for your answer and patience dealing with people like me.

[Red]

Oh, really. And you see no difference in the long run between hoarding of very large quantities of $$ and putting them all of fire?

I don't have to see it. Mathematically there is no difference.

This is different with BitCoin, since the system need some coins to operate and their number is limited.

Coins are not limited. You can trade 1/10 of a coin as easily as you can trade 10 coins.

I just was curious about whether someone is able to collect significant amounts of coins.
It seems, that you believe that is not possible, anyway, thanks for your answer and patience dealing with people like me.

It is well known that one person has 10% of all existing coins. Most are being "hoarded" because he is developing a new venture that requires the coins as collateral. If his venture were to fail before it started and he were to "burn" his wallet with 10% of all existing bitcoins. NOBODY WOULD NOTICE! Nobody knew he had the coins until he told us. If he had never told us, the math is no different.

If he decided to sell them all at once the market would notice. But nothing happens if someone takes NO action.

Consider the obvious. By definition the bitcoin system has 21,000,000 BTC of value. Currently 3,500,000'ish is available to circulate if it wants to.

That means that 17,500,000 is being hoarded by the BitCoin reserve to be trickled out over time. It makes no difference if it is being hoarded in a bitcoin address or outside a bitcoin address. (In fact I'd have to examine the code to know for sure.)

If all the users decided that trickling the coins out was stupid and we should put a stop to it. It still wouldn't matter. The system would continue to trade with 3,500,000 total coins rather than 21,000,000.

Absolutely no one would notice, EXCEPT those people who wanted to get bitcoins for free. That is a "social" dynamic, not a monetary dynamic.

[Red]

I can't explain this to you any better.
I can only explain it to you LOUDER.

If you are still unclear on the concepts, you'll have to look to someone else.

[knightmb]

It is well known that one person has 10% of all existing coins. Most are being "hoarded" because he is developing a new venture that requires the coins as collateral. If his venture were to fail before it started and he were to "burn" his wallet with 10% of all existing bitcoins. NOBODY WOULD NOTICE! Nobody knew he had the coins until he told us. If he had never told us, the math is no different.

If he decided to sell them all at once the market would notice. But nothing happens if someone takes NO action.

A side point, it's now a lot more economical to buy them off the market/members than it is to generate them. So as this month ends, all the server time that was being used will be slowly fazed out (as it has been for 1 week now) and the difficulty still continues to remain high so interest in Bit Coin continues to remain high around the world from what I'm seeing.

In case anyone was curious, the servers were made up of about -330- 64bit ( 8 )-core Xeon processor systems that all ranged from Linux to Windows along with another 20 special systems that ranged from 8 to 64 core systems running various flavors and windows and Linux. After the end of this month, it will just fall back to a half dozen 8-core servers to keep the daemons running for testing and keeping the BitCoin network going of course 

A month of running all of those servers 24/7 produced a lot of coin of course, but it's been a better process just to purchase it (and faster, less maintenance) and now with the difficulty much higher than it was last month, it's more economical just to buy it from the market sites. So unless the difficulty falls back down below single digits, I'll be glad to not have to worry about monitoring that many servers in the future. 

[Red]

That is pretty awe inspiring!  You didn't assemble all those machines for this project did you?

Were some of them cloud machines (like amazon ecc?)

I'm hoping you'll give some details on your project soon. I've got some anonymous banking ideas if you want to share.

[knightmb]

That is pretty awe inspiring!  You didn't assemble all those machines for this project did you?

Were some of them cloud machines (like amazon ecc?)

I'm hoping you'll give some details on your project soon. I've got some anonymous banking ideas if you want to share.

Machines from about a dozen different hosting companies around the US here. Basically, each machine rented for between $19 to 50 a month, so this is the last month for their rental and the next month we won't be renewing the rental. I did try some Amazon cloud machines, but they ended up being nearly the same speed as the other servers we were renting for the price. I could rent a Amazon instance for about a $1 / hour to churn 10,000 khash/s but then I could rent a server from another hosting company for an entire month for $19.99 and it could churn close to 7,000 khash/s so using Amazon didn't make economical sense; an entire day of hashing was the same price as an entire month of hashing at another hosting service.

There were some special machines that were rented from some hosting centers in GA that had a lot of cores and mainly we used idle time (since it was cheaper, it would really burn up the khash at night when the server load was nearly non-existent)

And then course, just go out and buy the Bit Coin through the market place and members here   (thanks to everyone willing to part with their BTC for USD)

Overall, the server farms only churned out about 1/3 of the total, the other 2/3 was bought over the last few months from members and the market websites. Some members here even gave me a large chunk at no cost simply because they were early adopters and didn't know what else to do with large amounts they had generated early on. So it paid off for me to try and contact all the early adopters of Bit Coin.

[Ground Loop]

That's very fascinating insight,  knightmb.  Some incredible machines on-tap.    I have been doing a lot of btc-per-energy calculations, but outright renting cores for off-peak khash is taking it to the next level.

At the current difficulty level, I've stopped all coin generation on machines where I pay for power or cooling.  Even the highest-end i7 machines had enough of a delta between idle/light-load and full steam that it was not worth the marginal cost.  Not by a longshot.

Recovering bulk coins from the dusty wallets of early adopters is very clever. 

[knightmb]

That's very fascinating insight,  knightmb.  Some incredible machines on-tap.    I have been doing a lot of btc-per-energy calculations, but outright renting cores for off-peak khash is taking it to the next level.

At the current difficulty level, I've stopped all coin generation on machines where I pay for power or cooling.  Even the highest-end i7 machines had enough of a delta between idle/light-load and full steam that it was not worth the marginal cost.  Not by a longshot.

Recovering bulk coins from the dusty wallets of early adopters is very clever. 

Same for me, I had a set budget by the investors and doing another month of servers at the current difficulty just isn't economical anymore when I can buy it from the market/members here for much less now. On top of that, the amount gathered should be more than enough to start with. If things take off, then it just means everyone's BTC will be worth more since I'll have to raid all the market sites again. 

[FreeMoney]

That's very fascinating insight,  knightmb.  Some incredible machines on-tap.    I have been doing a lot of btc-per-energy calculations, but outright renting cores for off-peak khash is taking it to the next level.

At the current difficulty level, I've stopped all coin generation on machines where I pay for power or cooling.  Even the highest-end i7 machines had enough of a delta between idle/light-load and full steam that it was not worth the marginal cost.  Not by a longshot.

Recovering bulk coins from the dusty wallets of early adopters is very clever. 

Same for me, I had a set budget by the investors and doing another month of servers at the current difficulty just isn't economical anymore when I can buy it from the market/members here for much less now. On top of that, the amount gathered should be more than enough to start with. If things take off, then it just means everyone's BTC will be worth more since I'll have to raid all the market sites again. 

Considering the size you are interested in how are you guessing what price you will have to pay? The markets are thin compared to what you want you may drive the price considerably.

I don't mean to imply you haven't considered this, you sound like you've got it together, I'm just interested in your thoughts.

[Anonymous]

That's very fascinating insight,  knightmb.  Some incredible machines on-tap.    I have been doing a lot of btc-per-energy calculations, but outright renting cores for off-peak khash is taking it to the next level.

At the current difficulty level, I've stopped all coin generation on machines where I pay for power or cooling.  Even the highest-end i7 machines had enough of a delta between idle/light-load and full steam that it was not worth the marginal cost.  Not by a longshot.

Recovering bulk coins from the dusty wallets of early adopters is very clever. 

Same for me, I had a set budget by the investors and doing another month of servers at the current difficulty just isn't economical anymore when I can buy it from the market/members here for much less now. On top of that, the amount gathered should be more than enough to start with. If things take off, then it just means everyone's BTC will be worth more since I'll have to raid all the market sites again. 

Now i know why my last lot of bitcoin sales went through so fast!

 

[knightmb]

Now i know why my last lot of bitcoin sales went through so fast!

 

Yeah, I noticed a lot of those sales were going to the same e-mail address over and over