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Stalin-chan
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September 13, 2011, 02:59:32 AM
 #61

So much for the invisible hand.
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Even in the event that an attacker gains more than 50% of the network's computational power, only transactions sent by the attacker could be reversed or double-spent. The network would not be destroyed.
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paraipan
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September 13, 2011, 03:25:47 AM
 #62


I'm in for the ride, kudos to them for making it public

ArtForz himself gave us the solution too, fixings the blocks time-stamp from devel view and the second one that was not stated can be that every peer maintains it's already downloaded "ledger" and stops transacting.
Remember we know very little when it comes to bitcoin protocol but they will be majority for a small time-span and working on a fork after all. My client will definitively not be accepting a ~9000 block reset if i don't re-download the whole blockchain.
Having block hashes included into main bitcoin client was a good idea for bitcoin after all, heh

Hope vinced would look into it and don't freakout ppl, as long as one peer with the honest ledger (blockchain) exist on the network you will not lose your coins or domains.

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September 13, 2011, 03:37:37 AM
 #63

So much for the invisible hand.
well, if he kills ixcoin, solidcoin, i0coin, and gg, and only bitcoin remains a viable crypto-currency, then BTC prices will rise due to its security over all the other chains

in fact, it might be the invisible hand killing all the copy-cat chains that didn't change enough of the code to really secure their place as the bitcoin successor

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September 13, 2011, 03:47:51 AM
 #64

So much for the invisible hand.
well, if he kills ixcoin, solidcoin, i0coin, and gg, and only bitcoin remains a viable crypto-currency, then BTC prices will rise due to its security over all the other chains

Well I for one am soured on all crypocurrencies including bitcoin. Especially if no one has a solution for me for storing my namecoins on a windows machine. 
I can't see me being able to install and learn linux in a few days. 

If I lose them I will be selling all my btc soon after.  I don't care if this some how proves bitcoin is secure... I am just depressed
by all of it and want out even if I take more of a loss.

I hope the pain you are inflicting on others is keeping you entertained BitcoinEXpress. 

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September 13, 2011, 03:51:49 AM
 #65

Well, personally, I'd prefer to see flaccidcoin stepped on due to general grating attitude of "We fixed up MAJOR VULNERABILITY IN BITCOINSIZ, LOLZ" the SolidCoin dude demonstrated, but I guess it's too low hanging a fruit or something...

This. SolidCoin just needs to go away.
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September 13, 2011, 03:52:32 AM
 #66

So much for the invisible hand.
well, if he kills ixcoin, solidcoin, i0coin, and gg, and only bitcoin remains a viable crypto-currency, then BTC prices will rise due to its security over all the other chains

Well I for one am soured on all crypocurrencies including bitcoin. Especially if no one has a solution for me for storing my namecoins on a windows machine.  
I can't see me being able to install and learn linux in a few days.  

If I lose them I will be selling all my btc soon after.  I don't care if this some how proves bitcoin is secure... I am just depressed
by all of it and want out even if I take more of a loss.

I hope the pain you are inflicting on others is keeping you entertained BitcoinEXpress.  

lol, you should not be here if you can't stand the pressure, sell me all your bitcoins right now and go play with gold or something else

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September 13, 2011, 04:00:41 AM
 #67

They'll stop playing with this made up block chain eventually, yes?  At that point, won't the "honest nodes" regain control and then all will be restored to normal?  Don't we just need to ride out the storm?

CampBX for buying BTCs, Coinbase for selling BTCs or Vircurex or Cryptsy for trading alternate cryptocurrencies like DOGEs

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September 13, 2011, 04:15:40 AM
 #68

Store 'em on your computer.

That's what I am trying to do...  please see my original post.  I am looking for a windows client/wallet.
Or is there a trusted online wallet I could use?  

Guess you could move them into bitparking and trust doublec's monitoring and check point lock in.  

As for a windows client, only current one I know of is  the build at http://www.wuala.com/jbw9/pub/Bitcoin/namecoin/nc0.3.24.61/win32.7z/ , however that has no locked in checkpoints.

I would suggest using Multicoin-exp , as an update to the namecoin config file with a lockin will be coming soon.  You would need to be a bit comfortable using the cli with either of these.
(  http://www.wuala.com/jbw9/pub/Bitcoin/multicoin/MultiCoin-exp/src/ has some *.exe in it for windows built). You would want to make sure you updated to the latest  http://exchange.beertokens.info/docs/multicoin/bitcoin.conf.namecoin  and be ready to either add or update again when a checkpoint gets added.


Maybe Lolcust would be willing to package up his console interface for namecoin usage?

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September 13, 2011, 04:35:18 AM
 #69

They'll stop playing with this made up block chain eventually, yes?  At that point, won't the "honest nodes" regain control and then all will be restored to normal?  Don't we just need to ride out the storm?

Not if the honest nodes don't re inject the correct (and probably very simillar in length) blockchains.

Maybe I don't understand how this whole thing works, but I thought that as long as 50% power was regained by honest nodes, then eventually, the only accepted chain would be the longest accurate one and the alternative made up one with fake transactions would just go away... yes?

CampBX for buying BTCs, Coinbase for selling BTCs or Vircurex or Cryptsy for trading alternate cryptocurrencies like DOGEs

PM me with any questions on these sites!  Happy to help!

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September 13, 2011, 05:08:36 AM
 #70

Guess you could move them into bitparking and trust doublec's monitoring and check point lock in.  
Don't keep them in bitparking. It'll be shutting down all namecoin transactions in a few days or block 19000, whichever comes first. If the attack succeeds all namecoins will be considered lost, the exchange will be closed permanently. If it fails the exchange will reopen for withdrawals. If the network hits 19,200 and there is a reasonable hash rate going then I'll consider reopening trades.
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September 13, 2011, 05:29:00 AM
 #71

Bad people like BitcoinEXpress exist in our society most them work for governments but the rest that where too evil even for government exists in the public.  This attack will show the world the power of bitcoin if namecoin survives it.

I'm feel like selling 40K of gold to kick this ass hole to the curb.   But I must be clever and out smart instead of out spend.

So sad people are destructive not productive even sadder is some destroy for sport.

Ah well Like I said it's part of life we (good people) need to deal with it.

You're going to need more than 40K of gold to stop this. The commitments from people wanting to start a "Hit Pool" now exceed 200GH/s. We have some very sharp people working on this and it will occur before merged mining. We needed a Guinea Pig and in this case it sucks for Namecoin to be the Guinea Pig. But hey, your leaders volunteered you guys by leaving the door open so long even after they were informed several times.

All of the exchanges have been notified, so no one should lose any money.

One of our "super coders" has actually (in theory) found a way to go back in the chain and start from there, thus invalidating everything in front of that block. We will test that also.

In the name of science...

If you are successful in resetting the blockchain to ~10,000, then my namecoins will seize to exist. What is your plan to reverse this fact once you're done with your testing? I paid real money for the namecoins that I bought. If you don't reverse the consequences of your test once you're done, you will in fact have taken real money from me because the namecoins I had in my wallet will have seized to exist, and the new ones that will have been created instead, will be in your wallet.

My namecoins are in this block: http://explorer.dot-bit.org/a/NEuKQ4uJPRrE7Bf5TmYAByhHieeFqLzYrd

Will you be transferring the same amount of namecoins to that address once your test is over?
Cosbycoin
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September 13, 2011, 05:40:22 AM
 #72

Bad people like BitcoinEXpress exist in our society most them work for governments but the rest that where too evil even for government exists in the public.  This attack will show the world the power of bitcoin if namecoin survives it.

I'm feel like selling 40K of gold to kick this ass hole to the curb.   But I must be clever and out smart instead of out spend.

So sad people are destructive not productive even sadder is some destroy for sport.

Ah well Like I said it's part of life we (good people) need to deal with it.

You're going to need more than 40K of gold to stop this. The commitments from people wanting to start a "Hit Pool" now exceed 200GH/s. We have some very sharp people working on this and it will occur before merged mining. We needed a Guinea Pig and in this case it sucks for Namecoin to be the Guinea Pig. But hey, your leaders volunteered you guys by leaving the door open so long even after they were informed several times.

All of the exchanges have been notified, so no one should lose any money.

One of our "super coders" has actually (in theory) found a way to go back in the chain and start from there, thus invalidating everything in front of that block. We will test that also.

In the name of science...

If you are successful in resetting the blockchain to ~10,000, then my namecoins will seize to exist. What is your plan to reverse this fact once you're done with your testing? I paid real money for the namecoins that I bought. If you don't reverse the consequences of your test once you're done, you will in fact have taken real money from me because the namecoins I had in my wallet will have seized to exist, and the new ones that will have been created instead, will be in your wallet.

My namecoins are in this block: http://explorer.dot-bit.org/a/NEuKQ4uJPRrE7Bf5TmYAByhHieeFqLzYrd

Will you be transferring the same amount of namecoins to that address once your test is over?

He believes your loss is in the name of "science".
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September 13, 2011, 05:43:00 AM
 #73

Well, personally, I'd prefer to see flaccidcoin stepped on due to general grating attitude of "We fixed up MAJOR VULNERABILITY IN BITCOINSIZ, LOLZ" the SolidCoin dude demonstrated, but I guess it's too low hanging a fruit or something...

This. SolidCoin just needs to go away.

Good luck with that.

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September 13, 2011, 05:44:19 AM
 #74

Bad people like BitcoinEXpress exist in our society most them work for governments but the rest that where too evil even for government exists in the public.  This attack will show the world the power of bitcoin if namecoin survives it.

I'm feel like selling 40K of gold to kick this ass hole to the curb.   But I must be clever and out smart instead of out spend.

So sad people are destructive not productive even sadder is some destroy for sport.

Ah well Like I said it's part of life we (good people) need to deal with it.

You're going to need more than 40K of gold to stop this. The commitments from people wanting to start a "Hit Pool" now exceed 200GH/s. We have some very sharp people working on this and it will occur before merged mining. We needed a Guinea Pig and in this case it sucks for Namecoin to be the Guinea Pig. But hey, your leaders volunteered you guys by leaving the door open so long even after they were informed several times.

All of the exchanges have been notified, so no one should lose any money.

One of our "super coders" has actually (in theory) found a way to go back in the chain and start from there, thus invalidating everything in front of that block. We will test that also.

In the name of science...

If you are successful in resetting the blockchain to ~10,000, then my namecoins will seize to exist. What is your plan to reverse this fact once you're done with your testing? I paid real money for the namecoins that I bought. If you don't reverse the consequences of your test once you're done, you will in fact have taken real money from me because the namecoins I had in my wallet will have seized to exist, and the new ones that will have been created instead, will be in your wallet.

My namecoins are in this block: http://explorer.dot-bit.org/a/NEuKQ4uJPRrE7Bf5TmYAByhHieeFqLzYrd

Will you be transferring the same amount of namecoins to that address once your test is over?


The vandals dont care what they wreck. Even if it creates actual victims.

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September 13, 2011, 06:01:31 AM
 #75

Although I have nmc to loose ~1000 I think this experiment has it's merits.

NMC is not really used for anything namespace related as of now, My take is that it had a bad start and it deserve to be used as a guinea pig.

as for iocoin & al, I bet even my mom has enough Ghash to fuck em up.
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September 13, 2011, 06:43:16 AM
 #76

Sell them.

The namecoin exchanges are closed for trading... and I don't imagine if they were not that anybody is looking to buy.

I'm buying them at Ruxum.

Seriously, btcEspresso, what you don't like about merged mining?
The solution is already implemented, you just don't want to wait that long. Come on...10 days for everybody changing their code? Some people even said that 19200 was too soon.
The solution...Merged mining since 19000 ?
And you think your attack is good for bitcoin? Bitcoin's operating costs would be reduced with merged mining.
Why destroying the only chain that:

1) Is not promoted as a currency.
2) Has a very useful feature that the community didn't want to be inserted in bitcoin's chain.
3) Will reduce the costs of the network relative to its security.

Merged mining is wonderful, Satoshi proposed it and could be bitcoin's salvation if the "mining after monetary inflation stops will be a tragedy of the commons" theory is true.

And again, what will you find out that you can't in a test chain? That the same can be done even against a bigger chain?

This is going to be bad to bitcoin advocates. "See this chain that has been destroyed? Bitcoin relies on the same technology. But hey, put your money in because it's secure." If you destroy namecoin, I wouldn't expect bitcoin prices to rise. The world would take it as "exchanges, windows computers and now the very chain is hackeable".
You're attacking bitcoin's credibility here too.

Also, where's ArtForz ? Does he hate merged mining too. Is he one of these fools that think that's parasiting bitcoin?


2 different forms of free-money: Freicoin (free of basic interest because it's perishable), Mutual credit (no interest because it's abundant)
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September 13, 2011, 08:38:18 AM
 #77

Sell them.

The namecoin exchanges are closed for trading... and I don't imagine if they were not that anybody is looking to buy.

I'm buying them at Ruxum.

Seriously, btcEspresso, what you don't like about merged mining?
The solution is already implemented, you just don't want to wait that long. Come on...10 days for everybody changing their code? Some people even said that 19200 was too soon.
The solution...Merged mining since 19000 ?
And you think your attack is good for bitcoin? Bitcoin's operating costs would be reduced with merged mining.
Why destroying the only chain that:

1) Is not promoted as a currency.
2) Has a very useful feature that the community didn't want to be inserted in bitcoin's chain.
3) Will reduce the costs of the network relative to its security.

Merged mining is wonderful, Satoshi proposed it and could be bitcoin's salvation if the "mining after monetary inflation stops will be a tragedy of the commons" theory is true.

And again, what will you find out that you can't in a test chain? That the same can be done even against a bigger chain?

This is going to be bad to bitcoin advocates. "See this chain that has been destroyed? Bitcoin relies on the same technology. But hey, put your money in because it's secure." If you destroy namecoin, I wouldn't expect bitcoin prices to rise. The world would take it as "exchanges, windows computers and now the very chain is hackeable".
You're attacking bitcoin's credibility here too.

Also, where's ArtForz ? Does he hate merged mining too. Is he one of these fools that think that's parasiting bitcoin?




When children stop dicking around trying to wreck things you can actually do something positive by going to reddit and voting http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/kcxdk/if_reddit_accepts_bitcoin_for_reddit_gold_i_will/

Getting reddit to accept bitcoin for reddit gold would do more than this effort to "help bitcoin."

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September 13, 2011, 10:15:02 AM
 #78

Well I for one am soured on all crypocurrencies including bitcoin. Especially if no one has a solution for me for storing my namecoins on a windows machine. 
I can't see me being able to install and learn linux in a few days. 

I would be put off by the community, not cryptocurrencies. Smiley

Looks like someone posted a windows binary with added checkpoints. You might want to give it a try (though I can't vouch for them):

http://dot-bit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1926#p1926

After downloading the blockchain and receiving your namecoins, backup the blockchain and wallet data until this spectacle is over.

NMC is not really used for anything namespace related as of now, My take is that it had a bad start and it deserve to be used as a guinea pig.

You don't expect the technology to come and knock down the status quo in mere months do you? It took Bitcoin two years to become mainstream and it's still a failed experiment with your metrics.

Guys, the issue is not the attack itself. I think an attack like this can be beneficial, even if it disrupts network's operations. The problem is, they are trying to exploit something that's already been fixed, because that's the only attack they have. The experiment will not prove anything from the security perspective, it will however show the mobility of Namecoin users, which is IMO not a very valuable information.
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September 13, 2011, 10:19:33 AM
 #79

now this is just childish.
It resembles kids atitudes when they just want to destroy others projects and accomplish nothing of their own.

I've got 1GH/s i can turn to namecoin while they play their stupid game...

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September 13, 2011, 12:54:49 PM
 #80

I think begging and pleading is counterproductive. If begging is our "security", we have NO security. What needs to be done is trying to prevent the attack and/or regaining control afterwards. I'm more interested in regaining control, since we probably won't have the luxury of warning with possible attack on Bitcoin someday.

Bitcoin has blockchain checkpoints with every new client version, I'm assuming Namecoin does too. If it does, I'm wondering how will it be possible to rewrite blocks down to 10000? I thought checkpoints are there to prevent it?

How do we regain control? We obviously need to have valid blockchain backup and bootstrap from it afterwards. We would need to make a new namecoin client version and persuade users to update it. Will there be any problems doing any of that?
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