[ANN][HUC] Huntercoin - Worlds First Decentralized Game/World on the Blockchain

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

i may have misunderstood some -but you could jsut do this now, that's what wiggi has shown?

and without any script stuff or changing anything. as long as you get people to use your own calculated gamestate (like wiggis gem client) you could have all the information you need.

every player has an address, and each player in time can have their address shown using name_history (in case someone else creates a toon with the same name)

maybe i'm not understanding completely though ..

Well, we can't have people playing by conflicting rules in the same game world... otherwise I'd make a new ability for my (hypothetical) client that makes the rest of you super easy to kill.

UNLESS we have different clients create transactions with unique headers!!! Then they could ignore conflicting ones completely so they don't even appear to each other on the map

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[MithrilMan]

regarding las tpost by mm and bitcoin co-op

i may have misunderstood some -but you could jsut do this now, that's what wiggi has shown?

and without any script stuff or changing anything. as long as you get people to use your own calculated gamestate (like wiggis gem client) you could have all the information you need.

every player has an address, and each player in time can have their address shown using name_history (in case someone else creates a toon with the same name)

maybe i'm not understanding completely though ..

no, you can't without node consensus and non-patched daemon would not have had features that patched daemon would have.
And the worst thing is that you can't even change game rules by script without hard forking. Scripts allow you to do anythink because nodes already have all they need to validate scripts and execute them.
I don't know if i explained me bad or what, but you can't even get close to what i mean actually

[snailbrain]

regarding las tpost by mm and bitcoin co-op

i may have misunderstood some -but you could jsut do this now, that's what wiggi has shown?

and without any script stuff or changing anything. as long as you get people to use your own calculated gamestate (like wiggis gem client) you could have all the information you need.

every player has an address, and each player in time can have their address shown using name_history (in case someone else creates a toon with the same name)

maybe i'm not understanding completely though ..

no, you can't without node consensus and non-patched daemon would not have had features that patched daemon would have.
And the worst thing is that you can't even change game rules by script without hard forking. Scripts allow you to do anythink because nodes already have all they need to validate scripts and execute them.
I don't know if i explained me bad or what, but you can't even get close to what i mean actually

edit
just read some more and i think i understand.

i think your ideal solution was just an example (gems)..
if talking about gems or anything calculated by gamestate then you can just use modified client like wiggi. you can have a complete new currency in the gamestate if you want. as long as people are using your modified daemon you can add diamonds to the map and it doesnt matter if i dont have the client. same as wiģgis gems. as long as it's not affecting the mechanics of the original game.
if you mean game mechanics changes...maybe you are then will need consensus by all nodes
voting is difficult to do as the rich will always get what they want due to how most cryptos work. maybe if voting is expensive and the coins become part of the fund?

apologies for typos (in bed remotely)

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

I was thinking we could have multiple gamestates on the Huntercoin blockchain. If we allowed different clients to mark transactions as theirs, the protocol could prevent them from interacting and allow them to occupy the same map tiles. The protocol would only apply logic such as combat to hunters with the same client header; it would just require nodes to store this extra data and miners to process the new transactions. Those who don't upgrade would be unaffected.

[snailbrain]

I was thinking we could have multiple gamestates on the Huntercoin blockchain. If we allowed different clients to mark transactions as theirs, the protocol could prevent them from interacting and allow them to occupy the same map tiles. The protocol would only apply logic such as combat to hunters with the same client header; it would just require nodes to store this extra data and miners to process the new transactions. Those who don't upgrade would be unaffected.

yes, with different gamestates you could have entirely different games that don't interfere at all.
or other use cases.. pretty much anything can be done that any other crypto can do i'd assume..

we'd at least maybe need to add an extra value to created names (characters) if there are multiple game states like - world=1 for original huntercoin... any other options makes your "name/character" behave just like a namecoin name then you could play in any world you wish depending on which client you use (i.e. doesn't die with disaster or appear in huntercoin world/gamestate).

Outputting huntercoins from the othe gameworlds could/would get complicated if we wanted to keep the same supply of coins.. (unless we go the wiggi's gems route and don't output huntercoins)

you could use namecoin (easier) or other cryptos to

the gamestate-calcs doesn't need to be in the client?
e.g.

Make a name in namecoin called "game/snailbrain"
interface with namecoin via rpc to modify your character (move etc).
All Agree on the game rules (hardest part, but also hardest part of huntercoin)
use an external website (or 3rd party client) which has the "game rules" (calculates gamestate) built in, to interface with namecoin.
play..

coins collected in the external gamestate won't be namescoins (can't output) but a new crypto currency (like wiggi's gems)... to transfer the newcurrency just have an agreed namecoin value command like :
name_update game/snailbrain {"send":500,"recip":"Bob"}

the external "gamestate/software" that everyone agrees on will "read this" and other commands like attacks or special moves..

it's still decentralized? (ish).
anyone can calculate the game state exactly if they all use the same "game rules"

If your character dies in the alt game, he will only be dead virtually in that gamestate but his namecoin name will still exist. He probably just starts again in the game world (teleports to start of map).

would be better just allowing standard names in huntercoin to boost it, as well as that blocks are 1 minute as opposed to namecoins 10 minutes.

just using crypto as a p2p game engine/server without the gamestate (nodes don't need calculate millions of different states), and without printing the main cryptos coins

-
edit

you could have the gamestate calculated in the huntercoin daemon as well (for the extra game states) in a modular fashion, this way an exchange could just add modules to add the different currencies that are using the huntercoin p2p-game-network?

[Vaccomondus]

how many coins can be done per day on average?

Done how? You mean earned by playing the game? ("Human mining")

yeah, by playing, how many per day?

[MithrilMan]

frankly i don't understand how can this works, if anyone can interpret the same transaction in different ways and for one a player is alive and another is not

The reward logic (so coin transfer because of game actions, like i kill someone and i get 200 huc) must be handled by nodes that must validate each game transaction and then generate the coin transfer accordlying, so this must be right into the node validation rules

I understand that you can create a name and change some of its attribute and then having a custom daemon that parse the custom rules and apply custom game state, but this is ok as long as it impact visually like applying a custom skin on your hunters, that you may be the only one to see or that other with same daemon logic can apply but that anyway doesn't impact on the game rules, but if you want to have a different kind of game, you can only create custom games if they are just visual games without rewards, because if you create e.g. a chess game where who win pay something to the opponent, only the loser can send the money, so he can just prevent that and voilat, faked game.

Or you can have a centralized server that handle all the reward transaction, if players transfer funds to it before playing, but this would not be a decentralized game of course (and this is what i wanted to do to implement my Contests)

Am i missing something?

[snailbrain]

frankly i don't understand how can this works, if anyone can interpret the same transaction in different ways and for one a player is alive and another is not

The reward logic (so coin transfer because of game actions, like i kill someone and i get 200 huc) must be handled by nodes that must validate each game transaction and then generate the coin transfer accordlying, so this must be right into the node validation rules

I understand that you can create a name and change some of its attribute and then having a custom daemon that parse the custom rules and apply custom game state, but this is ok as long as it impact visually like applying a custom skin on your hunters, that you may be the only one to see or that other with same daemon logic can apply but that anyway doesn't impact on the game rules, but if you want to have a different kind of game, you can only create custom games if they are just visual games without rewards, because if you create e.g. a chess game where who win pay something to the opponent, only the loser can send the money, so he can just prevent that and voilat, faked game.

Or you can have a centralized server that handle all the reward transaction, if players transfer funds to it before playing, but this would not be a decentralized game of course (and this is what i wanted to do to implement my Contests)

Am i missing something?

hi,

you just wouldn't be able to use "huntercoins" themselves. It would have to be another virtual crypto within the crypto (same as wiggi's gems)
Huntercoins would be used to create your name of course (not mega dissimilar to how coins are made on top of bitcoin)

as long as your huntercoin name isn't created in the huntercoin gamestate (i.e. allow to create names in huntercoin which are just like namecoin names and are not in huntercoin world) then you can have your own external gamestate.

[snailbrain]

how many coins can be done per day on average?

Done how? You mean earned by playing the game? ("Human mining")

yeah, by playing, how many per day?

posted further up

[snailbrain]

frankly i don't understand how can this works, if anyone can interpret the same transaction in different ways and for one a player is alive and another is not

imagine like this:

you have huntercoin as it is now but you also allow to create characters with a {world=0} value.
This means your character does not appear in the huntercoin world and it lasts forever.
you can still change it's values just like in namecoin (and huntercoin).

an external gamestate calculates the gamestate based on characters whos world=0
in this gamestate it can be a completely different game and you can pickup coins items or whatever.

how much coins you have is all calculated in the gamestate.. but you can't obviously print huntercoins, it would be a new currency(or multiple like gold, silver bronze).
just a full game of anything you want on the back huntercoin

Everyone will calcualte the gamestate exactly if everyone is using the exact same "laws" and "rules". If someone is interpreting the game state differently, then my gamestate won't agree so they will be in alternative reality (fork)

[Vaccomondus]

how many coins can be done per day on average?

Done how? You mean earned by playing the game? ("Human mining")

yeah, by playing, how many per day?

posted further up

i mean how many coin per day 1 player can do, by playing let's say 8 hours?

[snailbrain]

how many coins can be done per day on average?

Done how? You mean earned by playing the game? ("Human mining")

yeah, by playing, how many per day?

posted further up

i mean how many coin per day 1 player can do, by playing let's say 8 hours?

Depends how many you control and how good you are.
if you completely dominated the map the max is 13k a day.

I've just been playing for an hour (at work so on and off) and made 600coins in pvp.. the loot i collected just pays for the destructs i used.

combat mechanics are not great so winning in pvp is usually due to the enemy making a mistake or having blocks solved faster than normal or them being afk

(next updates will be concentrating on combat mechanics)

[Vaccomondus]

how many coins can be done per day on average?

Done how? You mean earned by playing the game? ("Human mining")

yeah, by playing, how many per day?

posted further up

i mean how many coin per day 1 player can do, by playing let's say 8 hours?

Depends how many you control and how good you are.
if you completely dominated the map the max is 13k a day.

I've just been playing for an hour (at work so on and off) and made 600coins in pvp.. the loot i collected just pays for the destructs i used.

combat mechanics are not great so winning in pvp is usually due to the enemy making a mistake or having blocks solved faster than normal or them being afk

(next updates will be concentrating on combat mechanics)

so 1 hunter cost me 200, how much he need to pay for itself, if he is not killed?

are the coins easy to bring back to the bank? the travel on average is long?

[snailbrain]

how many coins can be done per day on average?

Done how? You mean earned by playing the game? ("Human mining")

yeah, by playing, how many per day?

posted further up

i mean how many coin per day 1 player can do, by playing let's say 8 hours?

Depends how many you control and how good you are.
if you completely dominated the map the max is 13k a day.

I've just been playing for an hour (at work so on and off) and made 600coins in pvp.. the loot i collected just pays for the destructs i used.

combat mechanics are not great so winning in pvp is usually due to the enemy making a mistake or having blocks solved faster than normal or them being afk

(next updates will be concentrating on combat mechanics)

so 1 hunter cost me 200, how much he need to pay for itself, if he is not killed?

are the coins easy to bring back to the bank? the travel on average is long?

with 1 character you are going to struggle making any coins, together with being new, not a good combo.

You should maybe expect to lose some coins while practicing and learning the game.
You should also use Mithrilman Client or Unity3d Client or Wiggi's Better Qt otherwise you will be at a serious disadvantage.

moving costs fractions of a huntercoin each time, Destruct (attack) currently costs 20 hucs (this will change when we implement things like spell timers).

it also costs 205 to create a hunter in total

[Vaccomondus]

1 was just an example, let's say i have 10 of them, can i pay for their cost in an useful time frame?

btw there is no release for wiggi client?

[snailbrain]

1 was just an example, let's say i have 10 of them, can i pay for their cost in an useful time frame?

btw there is no release for wiggi client?

if you bank your hunter you will get 200 hucs back + any coins you looted on the ground or in acquired in pvp.

to be in profit you just need to loot more than 5 coins with each hunter and bank (and don't get killed).

I think there is a link to wiggi's compiled client in one of the readme's

[snailbrain]

Where can I find the Mac download?

Try this, compiled by maxpower.

I don't have a working mac so i can't test

https://mega.nz/#!JM0WgDDR!AlMaXOvsj4qcZWPZFHlA0FmzIrVSY2T2AMr-SaToENE

i'm syncing from scratch atm in yosemite - working so far and seems fine.

of course i can't thoroughly guarantee security but i'd use it (i trust maxpower didn't put anything malicious in there if that's worrying)

-

i've just tested the latest unity3d client on mac and seems to work fine also.. (i built this myself within unity3d but didn't have the hardware to test at the time)

[wiggi]

e.g (may be inaccurate because i don't know exactly how your gem implementation works):
if you spawn a gem on your patched daemon/client, and someone that have not a patched daemon walk over, your daemon would assign it to that hunter while the daemon that the player is running, that isn't patched, don't know about gems and ignore it

Yes

so you have an inconsistence here

Even if your implementation depend on transaction generated by the patched, and when one of the managed hunters (hunters in the wallet of the running daemon) step over the gem you generate it to communicate to every patched daemon that you own it

You got that "assign" wrong. No transaction is generated, and no one is managed.

If you want to play a game you have to invent rules, this cannot be helped. Like "Race me, the first to touch that tree wins".

The patched client passively watches and determines who would win something according to the rules (its source code is the rule, per definition).
It does not communicate the results. Only human players communicate by sending valid Huntercoin transactions.

In a way this is similar to what Mastercoin (which would be much cooler if implemented in the Bitcoin-qt wallet) is doing on the Bitcoin blockchain, only the extra information make more sense visually. The inventory items are the Masterhuntercoins.

[wiggi]

I generally log in and create 10 hunters and hope to catch people by surprise.. i can normally make 1 or 2k coins from a few of hours of play (while working) (sometimes more).
That being said, the combat mechanics need fixing as it's too predictable - although, humans do tend to find ways of making what seems simple stalemate combat into almost complex chess when using multiple hunters (with more or against more).

When using multiple hunters it actually is complex. Have 2 hunters of the same color vs 3 with the remaining 3 colors an advantage in an enclosed space like the center? I'd prefer to fight with the two. (but it's slow and difficult to get 2 to same spot, and everyone will see it coming)

[snailbrain]

I generally log in and create 10 hunters and hope to catch people by surprise.. i can normally make 1 or 2k coins from a few of hours of play (while working) (sometimes more).
That being said, the combat mechanics need fixing as it's too predictable - although, humans do tend to find ways of making what seems simple stalemate combat into almost complex chess when using multiple hunters (with more or against more).

When using multiple hunters it actually is complex. Have 2 hunters of the same color vs 3 with the remaining 3 colors an advantage in an enclosed space like the center? I'd prefer to fight with the two. (but it's slow and difficult to get 2 to same spot, and everyone will see it coming)

yep i agree.