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Author Topic: Philippines adoption  (Read 4317 times)
qwerty555
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July 28, 2014, 03:07:59 AM
 #21

I've only been away 4 months and so much has happened. I can't wait to get back. I will not be starting an exchange. I'm really not even planning a big business. My goals are to educate people about Bitcoin and facilitate getting businesses to accept it.  I will work on a donation basis, but will likely get an SEC license to cover myself. I have ideas in how to expand into a business, but at this point I'll play it safe.


Re education and acceptance by business

this group
http://sci.ventures/

who own this
https://rebit.ph/

also have bitstars in its alpha which I like as a means to promote bitcoin as a way of remitting ( and eventually spending) to the 40 million +++ beneficiaries of remittance money

http://bitstars.ph/

http://bitstars.ph/rules

post and win..if the prize money can get to $1,000 a month or quarterly this is significantly high enough to get 100,000 + participants   rising to 1 M +++ with adequate promotion. This will enable the snowballing effect of business adoption and remittance activity to gather pace.

I have been in touch and due to this being a start up with low current volume the prize money is limited. Might I suggest they open up investment in rebit.ph to the community I would have no problem investing 1 coin and so would others here I expect if they could demonstrate a realistic ROI of 2 yrs or less.  ( eg 100 coins a day remittance target)


EDIT ADD

After about 2 weeks of operation this was the result as of July 3rd

http://www.techinasia.com/startup-driving-bitcoin-adoption-selfies-philippines/

As of this writing, the 700 users on the site have uploaded more than 5,000 selfies. These photos have earned 17.7 million satoshis (there are 100,000,000 satoshis in one bitcoin) in daily prizes and almost double that in tips at 32.3 million satoshis. These numbers suggest that while Bitcoin adoption cannot be completely sustained through tipping alone, users are beginning to embrace the cryptocurrency for what it ultimately is: a way to give and receive value – in other words, money.

Read more: How a startup is driving Bitcoin adoption with selfies in the Philippines http://www.techinasia.com/startup-driving-bitcoin-adoption-selfies-philippines/



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July 28, 2014, 03:11:44 AM
 #22

I'll be working with a small group I've been training called Sacred Mission Services.

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July 28, 2014, 03:40:20 AM
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If bitcoin exchanges can compete with western union and other remittance center bitcoin will have bright future in the Philippines.  More than 10 million OFW's are sending billions of usd to the Philippines every month.
qwerty555
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July 28, 2014, 04:23:13 AM
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If bitcoin exchanges can compete with western union and other remittance center bitcoin will have bright future in the Philippines.  More than 10 million OFW's are sending billions of usd to the Philippines every month.

needs promotion but eventually should be the norm..comparisons with western union and others have been made..currently with exchange rate costs its about 5% via bitcoin to bank account but 10-11% to door using traditional pdala service in Ph (after reconversion to pesos) v's 8-13% via western union and others. Most bitcoin remittance services are using approx 3% spread but with greater volume it could ..eventually...go to 1%. It will be even better if bitcoin is no longer needed to be converted to fiat to spend locally but we are (quite) a few years away from that I expect.

https://sendmoney.coins.ph/

https://rebit.ph/
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July 28, 2014, 04:31:04 AM
 #25

Hi with the talk with remittances lately we just want to mention our Philippines rebittance company.

rebit.ph

compare our rates to other services here Smiley

https://rebit.ph/compare
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July 28, 2014, 04:36:02 AM
 #26

I'll be working mostly with people that don't have bank accounts. I'm not sure how exchanges will help them.

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qwerty555
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July 28, 2014, 04:44:28 AM
 #27

I'll be working mostly with people that don't have bank accounts. I'm not sure how exchanges will help them.

the remittance services above can remit to those with no bank accounts..its just more expensive as the pesos arrive via existing local pdala services at the rates they charge (with no add on) as an additional cost


There is also quickcoin via facebook

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=626751.msg7007350#msg7007350


 That was exactly the calculation I was looking for. Approximate cost 11%.. If however they have the pesos deposited in a BPI bank account that would be free and and save them P125 with a total cost of P105 (4-5% ish.)
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July 28, 2014, 04:57:16 AM
 #28

I've only been away 4 months and so much has happened. I can't wait to get back. I will not be starting an exchange. I'm really not even planning a big business. My goals are to educate people about Bitcoin and facilitate getting businesses to accept it.  I will work on a donation basis, but will likely get an SEC license to cover myself. I have ideas in how to expand into a business, but at this point I'll play it safe.

That sounds like great news I hope you have the best of luck in your business venture and don't forget to tell us how it goes I am curious how the Philippines will adopt Bitcoin and its related technologies.
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July 28, 2014, 05:00:39 AM
 #29

I'll be working mostly with people that don't have bank accounts. I'm not sure how exchanges will help them.

the remittance services above can remit to those with no bank accounts..its just more expensive as the pesos arrive via existing local pdala services at the rates they charge (with no add on) as an additional cost
With localbitcoins or mycelium, any money service or pawnshop can be a padala. I'm aiming at the low end 5/6 lenders and such. They can set any fees they wish, but they will probably be working with amounts too small for traditional money transmitters, i.e. much less than 5000 php. on a weekly repayment schedule. For the record, I will not be making the loans. I am only assisting in an advisory capacity to help with development of Bitcoin in third world nations. I don't know the legalities of these situations, but it's my understanding that it is a dangerous business. Bitcoin will eventually find a niche that doesn't compete with Western Union, but will coexist peacefully with traditional money transmitters until they are no longer necessary.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
qwerty555
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July 28, 2014, 06:09:10 AM
 #30

I'll be working mostly with people that don't have bank accounts. I'm not sure how exchanges will help them.

the remittance services above can remit to those with no bank accounts..its just more expensive as the pesos arrive via existing local pdala services at the rates they charge (with no add on) as an additional cost
With localbitcoins or mycelium, any money service or pawnshop can be a padala. I'm aiming at the low end 5/6 lenders and such. They can set any fees they wish, but they will probably be working with amounts too small for traditional money transmitters, i.e. much less than 5000 php. on a weekly repayment schedule. For the record, I will not be making the loans. I am only assisting in an advisory capacity to help with development of Bitcoin in third world nations. I don't know the legalities of these situations, but it's my understanding that it is a dangerous business. Bitcoin will eventually find a niche that doesn't compete with Western Union, but will coexist peacefully with traditional money transmitters until they are no longer necessary.

https://sendmoney.coins.ph/

the minimum available thru this is P26  but the3 sender would be wiped out due to cost of $ to bitcoin exchange most probably

Here are a couple of small remittance estimates and you can see if they work for ur intended use

P500 sent =...2% approx $ to bitcoin  P10 + 3% exchange spread when selling bitcoin to peso P15 + P10 mobile money gcash = P35 cost or 7% cost

or lbc etc cash pick up P30 = P55  or 11%

P200 sent = 2% approx $ to bitcoin  P4 ( assuming there is no fee or minimum in buying bitcoin with $ as if there is it will never be worth sending in this or any other method from outside Philippines )  + 3% spread bitcoin to pesos ( there is no minimum for this) = P6 + P15 cash pick up   lbc  total P25  or 12.5%..

so small amounts can be done at a higher % cost which however is far lower than western union who probably will eat up 90% + of the remittance on low amounts

The local bitcoin spread is already about 7 - 10 % each way...$ to bitcoin and then bitcoin to pesos  and then you will still need to go thru a remittance service so that is more expensive.

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July 28, 2014, 11:01:20 AM
 #31

I'll be working mostly with people that don't have bank accounts. I'm not sure how exchanges will help them.

the remittance services above can remit to those with no bank accounts..its just more expensive as the pesos arrive via existing local pdala services at the rates they charge (with no add on) as an additional cost
With localbitcoins or mycelium, any money service or pawnshop can be a padala. I'm aiming at the low end 5/6 lenders and such. They can set any fees they wish, but they will probably be working with amounts too small for traditional money transmitters, i.e. much less than 5000 php. on a weekly repayment schedule. For the record, I will not be making the loans. I am only assisting in an advisory capacity to help with development of Bitcoin in third world nations. I don't know the legalities of these situations, but it's my understanding that it is a dangerous business. Bitcoin will eventually find a niche that doesn't compete with Western Union, but will coexist peacefully with traditional money transmitters until they are no longer necessary.

https://sendmoney.coins.ph/

the minimum available thru this is P26  but the3 sender would be wiped out due to cost of $ to bitcoin exchange most probably

Here are a couple of small remittance estimates and you can see if they work for ur intended use

P500 sent =...2% approx $ to bitcoin  P10 + 3% exchange spread when selling bitcoin to peso P15 + P10 mobile money gcash = P35 cost or 7% cost

or lbc etc cash pick up P30 = P55  or 11%

P200 sent = 2% approx $ to bitcoin  P4 ( assuming there is no fee or minimum in buying bitcoin with $ as if there is it will never be worth sending in this or any other method from outside Philippines )  + 3% spread bitcoin to pesos ( there is no minimum for this) = P6 + P15 cash pick up   lbc  total P25  or 12.5%..

so small amounts can be done at a higher % cost which however is far lower than western union who probably will eat up 90% + of the remittance on low amounts

The local bitcoin spread is already about 7 - 10 % each way...$ to bitcoin and then bitcoin to pesos  and then you will still need to go thru a remittance service so that is more expensive.


That's great for me. Now I can just live off my bitcoins and retire. Where in Mindanao can I shop with bitcoins?

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
qwerty555
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July 28, 2014, 01:23:24 PM
 #32

lol..not an option to live off bitcoins in Mindanao or even in Manila yet....it will still need to be converted to fiat thru people like the exchanges listed above. I doubt I will live to see merchants accepting bitcoins in Mindanao BUT you can already buy online and have items delivered there so that's a start

http://entrepreneursky.com/metrodeals-cashcashpinoy-starting-accept-bitcoins/
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July 28, 2014, 01:32:01 PM
 #33

I pay 1% for coinbase and another 200 per 20k php per ATM withdrawl from my US bank. That works out to be 2% to cash out of bitcoins. I haven't done much of that yet. If I can get a good exchange rate and better deal with my PNB account, that would be great.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
qwerty555
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July 28, 2014, 02:15:25 PM
 #34

I pay 1% for coinbase and another 200 per 20k php per ATM withdrawl from my US bank. That works out to be 2% to cash out of bitcoins. I haven't done much of that yet. If I can get a good exchange rate and better deal with my PNB account, that would be great.

That is extremely competitive ( assuming that they are not making up on the $ peso exchange rate conversion in the US)..regretfully the majority of OCW's from USA do not yet have that option or know /have time to set it up...

http://www.consumersinternational.org/media/886482/the%20remittances%20game%20of%20chance.pdf

Ironically, the typical remittance consumer would a
ppear to be in a group that is in most need of
consumer protection but is least likely to be prote
cted from abusive market practices.
Whilst price-comparison sites tend to show a range
of different MTCs and different methods of
sending money internationally, it is probable that
the ‘real choice’ facing many migrants is much
smaller. Due to the migrants low use (and in some c
ases active distrust) of banks,
27
the most popular
formal method of sending money is a cash-to-cash tr
ansfer through a money-transfer company as the
intermediary.
28
A survey of Latin America illustrated that only a
third of money-transfer recipients have
a bank account.
29
The accessibility of sending and receiving outlets,
both in terms of geography and opening hours, is
also a factor, and migrants are also less likely to
have access to the internet (or may be unwilling t
o
pay an additional charge to use a computer in an in
ternet cafe).
Thus, not surprisingly, in a 2010 survey of 1,000 r
emittance senders living in the US, 90% utilised
MTCs for cash-to-cash remittance transfers. Only 3%
used banks, 2% utilised the internet and 4%
used another means.[
/i]


bottom line is that ease of sending and access to collection points for recipients is a major factor in choice of remittance method..over and above the competitive cost in many cases.
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July 28, 2014, 02:20:55 PM
 #35

Hello there! I'm from the Philippines and I know an exchange that provides a really great service. It's coins.ph. They offer a fast and reliable service and I've used them many times. As for the adoption of bitcoin in the Philippines, Filipinos seem to grasp the idea of using a decentralized currency slowly. Though the adoption rate might be slow at this point, there are some businesses that already integrate the bitcoin payment system like metrodeal.

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July 28, 2014, 03:01:14 PM
 #36

bitstars.ph/ is a pretty nice and good idea. good work over there!  Smiley

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July 29, 2014, 02:36:18 AM
 #37

Thanks LiteCoinGuy Smiley

bitstars.ph/ is a pretty nice and good idea. good work over there!  Smiley
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July 30, 2014, 03:42:23 AM
 #38

Finally, an easier way to get Bitcoin!

The Philippines' first prepaid Bitcoin cards are here! Load your Bitcoin wallet instantly with P200, P500, or P1000. The prepaid Bitcoin cards are available at the following branches: Bitmarket.ph Offices, Baicapture Offices, Yardstick Coffee, or message me directly.

Brought to you by Bitmarket.ph, these prepaid Bitcoin cards are a huge leap forward for Bitcoin adoption in the country. With a community so used to scratching off cellphone credits and raffle prizes, it was only natural that Bitcoin join the scratch-off wagon too!

To learn more, visit: http://prepaidbitcoin.ph

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July 30, 2014, 03:55:47 AM
 #39

Finally, an easier way to get Bitcoin!

The Philippines' first prepaid Bitcoin cards are here! Load your Bitcoin wallet instantly with P200, P500, or P1000. The prepaid Bitcoin cards are available at the following branches: Bitmarket.ph Offices, Baicapture Offices, Yardstick Coffee, or message me directly.

Brought to you by Bitmarket.ph, these prepaid Bitcoin cards are a huge leap forward for Bitcoin adoption in the country. With a community so used to scratching off cellphone credits and raffle prizes, it was only natural that Bitcoin join the scratch-off wagon too!

To learn more, visit: http://prepaidbitcoin.ph



Congrats  +1


Great idea with massive potential and quickly brought to market BUT  there is a 10% charge on the card ( and possibly a further 3%+ from the merchants who accept compared to fiat prices to cover their conversion back to pesos??)..Whilst the novelty factor will initially drive this the added cost will surely eventually kill the "Potential golden goose"....an initial cost of 3-5% will be less prohibitive as they can still have a financial gain by spending remittances in bitcoin without conversion to peso at additional cost of 3%.

a) Is the card reloadable from a bitcoin wallet (and how?) without a further 10% charge ? If not, please consider this type of system as then the initial cost of card is more acceptable as a one time payment.

b)  Ultimately a 1% cost per card and a similar mark up for merchants accepting would be a more sustainable model..is this where you will be going?  If so then may I suggest the adjustment should come soon to avoid negative sentiment and increase the adoption rate to get the volume required.  

Customers first experience must be POSITIVE!!

http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130604134550-284615-15-statistics-that-should-change-the-business-world-but-haven-t

6. 96% of unhappy customers don’t complain, however 91% of those will simply leave and never come back – 1Financial Training services.

7. A dissatisfied customer will tell between 9-15 people about their experience. Around 13% of dissatisfied customers tell more than 20 people. – White House Office of Consumer Affairs.


Any press article will immediately note that there is almost no benefit from changing $ to bitcoin ( 1-2%) sending it to manila (free or 100 bits via quickcoin)  loading it to a prepaid card ( 10%  ouch) spending it to a merchant who may charge you 3% more than the fiat price.

I know this is brand new,,,you may wish to reconsider pricing so that the total cost is equal or lower to a western union fiat conversion and transfer at 11%.approx total..  even if this shows the profitability in that model is not projected for 12 - 24 months.

Others are aware of this lag time and are therefore capitalized to cover this. Whilst the link is a traditional non bitcoin payment/remittance system they have raised substantial funding to compete in large and increasingly competitive market of $24B / year. Bitcoin needs to play to its strengths which is it should be substantially less expensive to use for remittance AND purchasing.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/21/ayannah/

and here's a bitcoin one from yesterday 

http://www.coindesk.com/zipzap-1-1-million-expand-bitcoin-payments-network/

You have an edge being a pioneer which needs to be maintained and increased..these others will likely eventually attempt to leverage you out with financial muscle...eg  similar service at much lower rates.



  Gd luck Smiley

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July 30, 2014, 05:32:23 AM
 #40

Thank you for the feedback qwerty555. I have passed this along to the rest of the team and will reply to you shortly.
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