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Author Topic: Throw Charlie under the bus and wash your hands clean of your biggest advocate  (Read 4151 times)
genjix
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January 29, 2014, 04:56:38 AM
 #1

http://www.coindesk.com/charlie-shrem-resigns-bitcoin-foundation-silk-road-arrest/

Charlie was one of the biggest advocates and architects of placating to power structures in order to curry favour.

Now he has been neutralised and his friends wash their hands of him.

Naturally this is painted in terms of his responsibility and guilt.

This obsession with image affects how Bitcoin develops as a free market tool. Bitcoin's interest is advanced in different directions depending on the groups controlling it. If corporates and people working with central power dictate development, then satoshi's vision will evolve into CorpCoin. Software is art. Technology is never neutral. All technical decisions involve tradeoffs and the best path isn't always clear. It's easy to become gradually corrupted if you ignore your principles and willingly sacrifice your integrity.
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BTCisthefuture
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January 29, 2014, 06:29:47 AM
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Quite normal and expected to distance yourself from someone if they are being tried for some pretty serious crimes. Has little to do with being "friends" , I'm sure members of the foundation are still friends with him on varying levels. It's true though that you can't have a public face whose as a spokesperson for bitcoin who is also on trial for laundering money to drug dealers Smiley

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January 29, 2014, 06:43:47 AM
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As with many people who break the law, Charlie might have thought it right to break the law. Few criminals are sociopaths. Most feel what they are doing is right. If this is the case, and from what I've read about Charlie and what I know of the libertarian side of bitcoin, I am surprised there aren't more people coming to his defense. Where are the people saying "who did he really hurt?" "the war on drugs is bs and Charlie was only providing his service to non-criminal drug dealers." OR are we more concerned about bitcoin going to $10,000 than seeing justice for a young man that was universally liked and respected in the bitcoin world prior to Jan 27, 2014?
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January 29, 2014, 06:58:24 AM
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I would think that Charlie voluntarily distanced himself from the foundation to prevent issues for them. Also, he is on house arrest, so isn't really able to travel at this point in time.
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January 29, 2014, 07:48:59 AM
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As with many people who break the law, Charlie might have thought it right to break the law. Few criminals are sociopaths. Most feel what they are doing is right. If this is the case, and from what I've read about Charlie and what I know of the libertarian side of bitcoin, I am surprised there aren't more people coming to his defense. Where are the people saying "who did he really hurt?" "the war on drugs is bs and Charlie was only providing his service to non-criminal drug dealers." OR are we more concerned about bitcoin going to $10,000 than seeing justice for a young man that was universally liked and respected in the bitcoin world prior to Jan 27, 2014?


I'm a huge advocate against the war on drugs.... I've done quite a bit of lobbying/political efforts in regards trying to get marijuana legalized since about 1996.   So yes I agree it's a shame to see people getting arrested for things like this.

With that said , regardless of what you think about the law you have to realize that it's the law and until the law changes if you do something like charlie was doing you can and most likely will to prison if caught. If you don't like a law then work to get the laws changed,  don't break it on a large enough scale where you can do a long time in prison and then complain that it's unfair.

I don't know him personally and I have no ill feelings toward him and I wish him the best of luck. With that said he's a smart enough guy that he's knows the gamble he was taking and it appears he lost that gamble  Undecided

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January 29, 2014, 08:36:54 AM
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I think he's innocent until proven guilty. I also think he is charged with something that shouldn't be a crime. But I also think that a person in that position either needs to be squeeky clean or a really smart criminal and apparently he is neither. I hope he gets off if he's innocent. I hope he gets off if he's guilty, but I'm not on the jury, so what I think is worth what you paid for it. nothing.

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January 29, 2014, 10:42:13 AM
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Yeah, I get your point, but considering you openly supported assassinating people that that might blow the cover on a drug cartel boss, your moral authority is shaky at best.

I have no idea about Charlie's guilt or innocence. I presume innocent till a court says otherwise. But Bitcoin's image problem currently is a small group of criminals in the flock of innovators.

The greatest thing the criminal innovators in bitcoin could do at this point, is to step away and let a new generation take over.


EDIT: Source for reference.

Hero's hire people to kill people?


The guy was threatening to release the info for 8000 people. Those people would have had their lives ruined by LE. If I was at risk of 10+ years in jail for a victimless crime because of the deliberate actions of an asshole motivated by money, then I would not mind someone assassinating that person.

But it's not so morally easy since the guy had kids, and drug debts. But he was blackmailing with the threat of many people's lives at stake.

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January 29, 2014, 10:58:11 AM
 #8

The greatest thing the criminal innovators in bitcoin could do at this point, is to step away and let a new generation take over.

So they can be arrested for victimless "crimes" too? This is a sick version of Whack-A-Mole; it doesn't matter which of us are popping up at any time or in any sequence, we're all moles, and the whacker is a Terminator.

Future Bitcoin services need to be run as if they are illegal enterprises, like Silk Road, even if what they are doing is apparently legal.

Why:
  • Laws change.
  • Regulations are vague and open-ended, and it's probably impossible to operate a business without accidentally violating one.
  • Even if you do manage to operate without violating any rule law enforcement agencies do not always limit themselves to the letter of the law when deciding to begin an enforcement action.
  • Governments are not the only threats to a successful business. Non-governmental organized crime is almost equally capable of extortion.

The solution is to run all services in the darknet, not tied to any physical location or legal jurisdiction, and without any explicit connection to a real-life identity.

In order to reduce the risk of the operator running away with all the coins customers should start using Bitcoin like it was intended and only get involved with zero-trust business models instead of giving their money to companies that blindly emulate old paradigms.

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January 29, 2014, 11:15:33 AM
 #9

The greatest thing the criminal innovators in bitcoin could do at this point, is to step away and let a new generation take over.

So they can be arrested for victimless "crimes" too? This is a sick version of Whack-A-Mole; it doesn't matter which of us are popping up at any time or in any sequence, we're all moles, and the whacker is a Terminator.

Murder for hire is not a 'victimless' crime. Nor is money laundering by and large.

Of course the government CAN go after individuals who do little harm and ignore the ones that do great harm. It's not that they are perfect, but you do have to follow the law. If you want to change it, change it.

"So they can be arrested for victimless "crimes" too?" - No, if you committed a crime, get out of the limelight where a) you will draw more scrutiny to yourself b) your inevitable demise will bring down the image of bitcoin with you c) you should probably move to some country where you won't find yourself extradited by surprise years down the road.


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hilariousandco
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January 29, 2014, 12:00:59 PM
 #10

Quite normal and expected to distance yourself from someone if they are being tried for some pretty serious crimes. Has little to do with being "friends" , I'm sure members of the foundation are still friends with him on varying levels. It's true though that you can't have a public face whose as a spokesperson for bitcoin who is also on trial for laundering money to drug dealers Smiley

Yeah, they can't really be seen to be associated with this regardless of guilt or not. The accusation is enough to tar the whole foundation.

runam0k
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January 29, 2014, 12:08:48 PM
 #11

He threw himself under a bus.
seriouscoin
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January 29, 2014, 12:33:32 PM
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Guys, please tell me this thread is a joke right? RIGHT?  Roll Eyes

cause my faith of being a member of a relatively smart community is fading.....

"victimless crime" ...such joke  Roll Eyes
whtchocla7e
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January 29, 2014, 01:44:46 PM
 #13

http://www.coindesk.com/charlie-shrem-resigns-bitcoin-foundation-silk-road-arrest/

Charlie was one of the biggest advocates and architects of placating to power structures in order to curry favour.

Keyword 'WAS'.

And even that is questionable. Maybe he was good at hiding his real motives and agendas. It doesn't matter anymore.

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January 29, 2014, 05:03:29 PM
 #14

This reminds me of DPR case when people started making topics to glorify him, gather money for his bail and so on.
These people knew what they were doing, they are not children playing with matches, but intelligent adults who built a prospering drug business. They wanted to make big money and got caught.
I'm not by any means a law supporter, but he knew the risk and took it, that's why I don't pity him.

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January 29, 2014, 05:22:04 PM
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Fully Informed Jury Association.
http://fija.org/

+1

The Judges don't like it and will tell you differently but the first duty of a Juror is to ask themselves "Do I agree with the law they have been charged with breaking?"

You have so much more power as a juror than you ever will voting for politicians....

All it takes is one to hang a jury and 3 for an acquittal. Here in Texas...
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January 29, 2014, 05:33:00 PM
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"Money laundering" is only possible because of fiat currencies. Paper money is the gateway to violent crimes. What Charlie did was save lives. Think of the children!

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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January 29, 2014, 05:47:32 PM
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Quote
It's easy to become gradually corrupted if you ignore your principles and willingly sacrifice your integrity.

and what are those principles? there is actually little advancement in any direction as far as I can tell.
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January 29, 2014, 06:13:43 PM
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I see most of the members of this forum as self serving capitalists posing as radical anarchists. At least, that's the arguments I see when someone mentions government here. Everyone wants the government to fuck off while they diligently work to increase Bitcoins exchange rate to government fiat. No member of this forum should be against Yankee because he ignored and attempted to subvert the legal system, ignored government control and preached the gospel of Bitcoin continuously to increase adoption. He did anything necessary to increase his personal wealth up to and including committing a felony. Shouldn't that make him the most respected Bitcoiner here?

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January 29, 2014, 07:19:12 PM
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I see most of the members of this forum as self serving capitalists posing as radical anarchists. At least, that's the arguments I see when someone mentions government here. Everyone wants the government to fuck off while they diligently work to increase Bitcoins exchange rate to government fiat. No member of this forum should be against Yankee because he ignored and attempted to subvert the legal system, ignored government control and preached the gospel of Bitcoin continuously to increase adoption. He did anything necessary to increase his personal wealth up to and including committing a felony. Shouldn't that make him the most respected Bitcoiner here?


As with a lot of anarchists they tend to be all mouth and are essentially greedy capitalists who are just angry that they don't have more money to spend on crap. They claim to hate taxes and governments but still hypocritically pay their way.
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January 29, 2014, 07:21:16 PM
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I see most of the members of this forum as self serving capitalists posing as radical anarchists. At least, that's the arguments I see when someone mentions government here. Everyone wants the government to fuck off while they diligently work to increase Bitcoins exchange rate to government fiat. No member of this forum should be against Yankee because he ignored and attempted to subvert the legal system, ignored government control and preached the gospel of Bitcoin continuously to increase adoption. He did anything necessary to increase his personal wealth up to and including committing a felony. Shouldn't that make him the most respected Bitcoiner here?


As with a lot of anarchists they tend to be all mouth and are essentially greedy capitalists who are just angry that they don't have more money to spend on crap. They claim to hate taxes and governments but still hypocritically pay their way.

Very nice! Someone actually got it.

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