Bitcoin mentioned at congressional hearing.

[Bitcoin Swami]

Was watching this and the guy said something about bitcoins around 20 minutes 30 seconds

Ron paul was listening, wonder if he knew what he was talking about.

http://mfile3.akamai.com/65722/wmv/sos1467-1.streamos.download.akamai.com/65726/hearing0913112pm.asx

[1715370959]

1715370959

[1715370959]

1715370959

[BitcoinPorn]

Ron Paul schedules House hearing to push gold standard



http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2011/09/ron-paul-schedules-house-hearing-to-push-gold-standard/

Texas congressman and GOP presidential nomination hopeful Ron Paul is:

(a) chairman of the House Financial Services Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy and Technology, and

(b) an outspoken proponent of the gold standard.

Put those two interests together, and you have a subcommittee hearing scheduled for Tuesday on H.R. 1098, the Free Competition in Currency Act of 2011, a bill that would allow for gold and silver to be used as currency.

In a statement, Paul said that America’s current “pure fiat currency system” is part of what’s caused the current economic crisis—which explains the need for a bill like H.R. 1098.

The bill would remove taxes from gold and silver and repeal federal legal tender laws to free up the metals for circulation, a move which, Paul said, would allow “the American people … to have a choice of currencies to protect themselves and their families from the poor decisions of government.”

?

[hugolp]

The law also removes legal tender laws so it would be great for Bitcoin.

Ron Paul schedules House hearing to push gold standard



http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2011/09/ron-paul-schedules-house-hearing-to-push-gold-standard/

Texas congressman and GOP presidential nomination hopeful Ron Paul is:

(a) chairman of the House Financial Services Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy and Technology, and

(b) an outspoken proponent of the gold standard.

Put those two interests together, and you have a subcommittee hearing scheduled for Tuesday on H.R. 1098, the Free Competition in Currency Act of 2011, a bill that would allow for gold and silver to be used as currency.

In a statement, Paul said that America’s current “pure fiat currency system” is part of what’s caused the current economic crisis—which explains the need for a bill like H.R. 1098.

The bill would remove taxes from gold and silver and repeal federal legal tender laws to free up the metals for circulation, a move which, Paul said, would allow “the American people … to have a choice of currencies to protect themselves and their families from the poor decisions of government.”

?

[jjiimm_64]

hhmmmmmm.   but didn't the gold standard help drive us into a depression because the gov couldn't print money to help the deflation that caused the depression?

so now I am torn.  I want the law so as to help bitcoin...  but dont want the law because any economist will tell you that the gold standard hurts economies.

[ctoon6]

hhmmmmmm.   but didn't the gold standard help drive us into a depression because the gov couldn't print money to help the deflation that caused the depression?

so now I am torn.  I want the law so as to help bitcoin...  but dont want the law because any economist will tell you that the gold standard hurts economies.

in school they teach that it had to do with people buying things on credit/margin if you are talking about investments. then being unable to pay, thus banks collapse, no FDIC, then more people loose money.

[TiagoTiago]

Did he really meant Bitcoin, or was it just "bit coins" as a generic term for digital currencies without him even knowing about Bitcoin itself?

[nhodges]

hhmmmmmm.   but didn't the gold standard help drive us into a depression because the gov couldn't print money to help the deflation that caused the depression?

so now I am torn.  I want the law so as to help bitcoin...  but dont want the law because any economist will tell you that the gold standard hurts economies.

Here's a little bit about what happened when we moved from the gold standard to the oil standard and why the only currency you can purchase oil (at the commodity-trade level) with is the US dollar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oARBdBtGenM

[BTCGameMaker]

hhmmmmmm.   but didn't the gold standard help drive us into a depression because the gov couldn't print money to help the deflation that caused the depression?

so now I am torn.  I want the law so as to help bitcoin...  but dont want the law because any economist will tell you that the gold standard hurts economies.

The way I read it is, the bill doesn't create a gold standard, it simply allows it to be used as currency.  Also I would argue that the depression had more to do with the federal reserve shrinking the money supply which had nothing to do with the money supply.

That being said, I would say there is nothing more detrimental to an economy than an unregulated and unelected body that can print money out of thin air on a whim and that's what the Federal Reserve is now.  The Federal Reserve is no more a part of the government than Federal Express is.

[mizerydearia]

In one slide at 11:30ish

Now, the promise to pay a dollar has been broken, and
The broken promise to pay a dollar has become a dollar!
Our money is now defaulted promissory notes

14:25+ cat/dog reference to explain fraudulent us dollar is quite interesting

House Resolution 1098

2nd speaker that referenced 'bitcoins' is Dr. Lawrence H. White.

[julz]

I only know of this mention at 21 min:

So removing legal tender status from US treasury coins and Federal reserve notes more generally would simply broaden the freedom to denominate debt contracts in whatever people want, not just dollars, not just gold, but they might want silver, they might want to say the debt is only discharged by cheques or wire transfers of dollars,
or it could be silver coins, or it could be units of foreign currency, claims denominated in consumer index bundles, or wholesale commodity bundles, (ah) or it could be Bitcoins.

Was that the only one?

[nhodges]

In one slide at 11:30ish

Now, the promise to pay a dollar has been broken, and
The broken promise to pay a dollar has become a dollar!
Our money is now defaulted promissory notes

14:25+ cat/dog reference to explain fraudulent us dollar is quite interesting

House Resolution 1098

2nd speaker that referenced 'bitcoins' is Dr. Lawrence H. White.

I was trying to find more information on the gentleman, thanks!

[evoorhees]

hhmmmmmm.   but didn't the gold standard help drive us into a depression because the gov couldn't print money to help the deflation that caused the depression?

so now I am torn.  I want the law so as to help bitcoin...  but dont want the law because any economist will tell you that the gold standard hurts economies.

You've been misinformed. To the extent that the gold standard "caused" the depression, it was because the government had printed and spent more money than the corresponding gold reserves, and thus creditors opted to take possession of the gold instead of dollars, causing a run on the bank type of situation. This is what happened to Britain as it entered its great depression. In other words, gold forces fiscal discipline, and when politicians don't behave, the economic consequences are made clear early on.

Compare this with today, where politicians can print and print and print, artificially keeping prices from correcting and risking hyper-inflation by so doing. The consequences of their actions in these past several years have not yet been felt, fyi.

The gold standard doesn't hurt economies. It protects savings, property, and value. If you prefer a world in which politicians perpetually steal your money by simply printing more of it (thus driving prices up which you pay), then you'll be antagonistic to a gold standard.

And your claim that "any economist will tell you that the gold standard hurts economies" is very wrong. Mainstream media and government economists will tell you that, but economists who aren't fools will not. If you'd like an excellent article on this topic, written by Alan Greenspan himself (back when he wasn't a fool in the 60s), check this out... it might just blow your mind:  http://www.constitution.org/mon/greenspan_gold.htm

[error]

The real problem with the gold standard, or things like it, is that it makes it harder for governments and central banks to rip off their own people. Take any example of an economic crisis from U.S. history -- or even the world -- and if you study it carefully you will find that it was government attempting to screw with the money at the root of it.

(I'm waiting for some smartass to provide a counterexample. Go.)

[WiseOldOwl]

hhmmmmmm.   but didn't the gold standard help drive us into a depression because the gov couldn't print money to help the deflation that caused the depression?

so now I am torn.  I want the law so as to help bitcoin...  but dont want the law because any economist will tell you that the gold standard hurts economies.

Here's a little bit about what happened when we moved from the gold standard to the oil standard and why the only currency you can purchase oil (at the commodity-trade level) with is the US dollar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oARBdBtGenM

+1
OPEC Money

[LightRider]

And just 30 minutes later, some asshole says that "greed is part of the human condition". Blaming us for the bullshit that religion, government and bankers have perpetrated on human beings for centuries.

[phillipsjk]

(I'm waiting for some smartass to provide a counterexample. Go.)

Well, you have pretty much set up a tautology there. I have to come up with an economic crisis not directly related to government intervention in the economy. My first though it that the security theater since 9/11 may have dragged down the economy, but there are too many variables to say if it had an effect either way.

One major crisis since then was the collapse of the housing bubble. I would argue that the government was taking a largely hands-off approach. It was private corporations messing with the money supply through credit default swaps. Of course, it could be argued that corporations form part of the government and that the US is actually a Facist Corpratist state (bringing the tautology full-circle).

Edit: double checked the definition of Facism.

[hugolp]

(I'm waiting for some smartass to provide a counterexample. Go.)

Well, you have pretty much set up a tautology there. I have to come up with an economic crisis not directly related to government intervention in the economy. My first though it that the security theater since 9/11 may have dragged down the economy, but there are too many variables to say if it had an effect either way.

One major crisis since then was the collapse of the housing bubble. I would argue that the government was taking a largely hands-off approach. It was private corporations messing with the money supply through credit default swaps. Of course, it could be argued that corporations form part of the government and that the US is actually a Facist state (bringing the tautology full-circle).

Freddie and Fannie are not government entities?

Also, even when they were private banks offering the money, they are largely subsidized and incentivized to expand the money supply by the government.

I dont understand how anyone can say the government has taken a hands-off approach when we live under a monopolly of money.

[phillipsjk]

I just rember our right-wing prime-minister defending banking regulations he wanted to relax (such as allowing longer mortgage terms).

I am fairly left-wing. I never thought that I would see the US Nationalizing the banks in my lifetime (that is so left wing I didn't really advocate for it)

Edit: Governments largely have a monoply on dispute resolution too: government intervention!

[hugolp]

I just rember our right-wing prime-minister defending banking regulations he wanted to relax (such as allowing longer mortgage terms).

I am fairly left-wing. I never thought that I would see the US Nationalizing the banks in my lifetime (that is so left wing I didn't really advocate for it)

Edit: Governments largely have a monoply on dispute resolution too: government intervention!

Im fairly left-wing as well. Not all left-wings are authoritarian.

[cablepair]

This "Free competition in currency act" will never pass.

Although it would be good for Bitcoin in some ways, it is a preposterous idea that would never work.

U.S. Federal Reserve Notes are backed more on our economics than on anything else, and if our government allows other "Free competition" it would basically make our money worthless. Our money is worth what it is because it is our money, and it does not take a genius to see that this kind of thing is really not in our country's best interest. Ron Paul only mentioned Bitcoin because it fits into his fundamentalist agenda. He is an extremist and although his small group of supporters are really loud and good at making themselves look big, when it comes down to it, they are a small group who carry little votes.

[MoonShadow]

This "Free competition in currency act" will never pass.

Although it would be good for Bitcoin in some ways, it is a preposterous idea that would never work.

U.S. Federal Reserve Notes are backed more on our economics than on anything else, and if our government allows other "Free competition" it would basically make our money worthless. Our money is worth what it is because it is our money, and it does not take a genius to see that this kind of thing is really not in our country's best interest. Ron Paul only mentioned Bitcoin because it fits into his fundamentalist agenda. He is an extremist and although his small group of supporters are really loud and good at making themselves look big, when it comes down to it, they are a small group who carry little votes.

It will never pass because it would work.  It wouldn't make the US FRN worthless, it would simply expose the present reality.  The US FRN is already worthless.  It wouldn't be chosen by a market economy once the threat of force that 'legal tender' laws imply are removed.  Bitcoin would not likely be the dominate alternative, however.  Bitcoin exists in a niche because of coercive legal tender laws.  Digital gold or silver certs would almost certainly dominate.  There would be no practical reason for Bitcoin to exist.

[hugolp]

"Our money"? Some people are too high on Kool-Aid.

[cablepair]

"Our money"? Some people are too high on Kool-Aid.

I really do not understand that comment. Can you elaborate please?

This "Free competition in currency act" will never pass.

Although it would be good for Bitcoin in some ways, it is a preposterous idea that would never work.

U.S. Federal Reserve Notes are backed more on our economics than on anything else, and if our government allows other "Free competition" it would basically make our money worthless. Our money is worth what it is because it is our money, and it does not take a genius to see that this kind of thing is really not in our country's best interest. Ron Paul only mentioned Bitcoin because it fits into his fundamentalist agenda. He is an extremist and although his small group of supporters are really loud and good at making themselves look big, when it comes down to it, they are a small group who carry little votes.

It will never pass because it would work.  It wouldn't make the US FRN worthless, it would simply expose the present reality.  The US FRN is already worthless.  It wouldn't be chosen by a market economy once the threat of force that 'legal tender' laws imply are removed.  Bitcoin would not likely be the dominate alternative, however.  Bitcoin exists in a niche because of coercive legal tender laws.  Digital gold or silver certs would almost certainly dominate.  There would be no practical reason for Bitcoin to exist.

I agree with you for the most part. our money (as in the "U.S. Federal Reserve Notes" which I am a U.S. citizen so thats why I referred to it as our money.) has value in the world economy because the USA is historically the strongest financial system ever. Our money is quite literally backed by our power and our economics and introducing government sanctioned competition would as you put it "Expose the reality". basically Our money is worth what it is because we say it is.

[JohnDoe]

So you acknowledge that the dollar only has value because people are forced to use it. Why do you defend it then?

[hugolp]

I really do not understand that comment. Can you elaborate please?

How is it your money when you can not even choose it? You are forced to use it. Can you print it? The banks and the politicians can print it. You dont. You are just forced to use it.

And what its backing the Federal Reserve dollars is the USA army. Thats why the rest of the world still use it as reserve currency.

Only fundamentalists that support using violence on their fellow citizens support imposing a currency on the rest. If the USA got rid of the monpolly on money and the people used the money they choosed the economy would function much better and crisis like the present one would not happen.

[cablepair]

So you acknowledge that the dollar only has value because people are forced to use it. Why do you defend it then?

don't get me wrong, I am not defending it at all. What I am saying is passing this wacky extremist bill is not going to do anything good for our economy, and I would bet you my entire Bitcoin wallet that it never does.

[evoorhees]

One major crisis since then was the collapse of the housing bubble. I would argue that the government was taking a largely hands-off approach.

You're joking, right?

1) Gov keeps interest rates far below what the market would set, encouraging millions of mortgage loans which otherwise would not have been taken
2) Fannie and Freddie guarantee/backstop many of the mortgage loans, removing the risk from the banks, thereby encouraging them to set standards extremely low because the risk is borne by the government enterprises.

These two factors were the majority cause of the housing calamity, and they are purely the result of government intervention in what is supposed to be a free marketplace. The housing calamity is perhaps one of the best examples of well-intentioned government programs causing terrible effects. How ironic and unfortunate that people have managed to blame the "free market" for the problem.

[Amit@bitcoin-central.net]

Was watching this and the guy said something about bitcoins around 20 minutes 30 seconds

Ron paul was listening, wonder if he knew what he was talking about.

http://mfile3.akamai.com/65722/wmv/sos1467-1.streamos.download.akamai.com/65726/hearing0913112pm.asx

Bitcoin has hit the mainstreams, The financial community knows about it now. It is just a matter of time before Bitcoin ATM start hitting the streets.

[hugolp]

So you acknowledge that the dollar only has value because people are forced to use it. Why do you defend it then?

don't get me wrong, I am not defending it at all. What I am saying is passing this wacky extremist bill is not going to do anything good for our economy, and I would bet you my entire Bitcoin wallet that it never does.

I dont understand why some USA people keep ignorantly bashing their most honest and worthy politician.

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

Bitcoin would not likely be the dominate alternative, however.  Bitcoin exists in a niche because of coercive legal tender laws.  Digital gold or silver certs would almost certainly dominate.  There would be no practical reason for Bitcoin to exist.

Bitcoin's inflation rate will be lower than that of any natural commodity. Gold supply increases exponentially, while bitcoin supply will stop increasing one day. I'd consider bitcoins better than natural commodities for this main reason.

If there's something that might eventually beat bitcoins in a free-society, it's centralized digital currencies which would work similar to bitcoin, but without the expensive mining process, as there would be no need for a decentralized record keeping. But I'm not sure... centralized solutions are dangerous, there's the trust issue etc.

[Pieter Wuille]

Gold supply increases exponentially,

Uhm there is only a finite amount of gold in the earth's crust...

[JohnDoe]

don't get me wrong, I am not defending it at all. What I am saying is passing this wacky extremist bill is not going to do anything good for our economy, and I would bet you my entire Bitcoin wallet that it never does.

Can you explain how it would be bad for the economy? Also why do you use Bitcoin if you believe that undermining your country's currency is bad for the economy?

[hugolp]

don't get me wrong, I am not defending it at all. What I am saying is passing this wacky extremist bill is not going to do anything good for our economy, and I would bet you my entire Bitcoin wallet that it never does.

Can you explain how it would be bad for the economy? Also why do you use Bitcoin if you believe that undermining your country's currency is bad for the economy?

I agree with you, just want to point out that the Federal Reserve notes are not the country currency, they are the government currency.

[cablepair]

don't get me wrong, I am not defending it at all. What I am saying is passing this wacky extremist bill is not going to do anything good for our economy, and I would bet you my entire Bitcoin wallet that it never does.

Can you explain how it would be bad for the economy? Also why do you use Bitcoin if you believe that undermining your country's currency is bad for the economy?

have you actually read this bill?

the bill was to allow open competition for the united states reserve. Anyone can just start printing up their own money and using it. its madness and it would never work.

I use Bitcoin and I love it. I have been mining it before it got big, and I have used it to buy everything from computer hardware to domain names, but Bitcoin will never be the major currency of the USA and If you think that, or the only reason you are using Bitcoin is to (your own words) "undermine the countries currency" we are complete opposites. I think you can love Bitcoin and still be patriotic and Love the USA.

Fundamentalists like Ron Paul say things that sound great, but in reality if someone like Ron Paul or Sarah Palin comes into power you better be independently wealthy or your going to be completely screwed.

[cablepair]

don't get me wrong, I am not defending it at all. What I am saying is passing this wacky extremist bill is not going to do anything good for our economy, and I would bet you my entire Bitcoin wallet that it never does.

Can you explain how it would be bad for the economy? Also why do you use Bitcoin if you believe that undermining your country's currency is bad for the economy?

I agree with you, just want to point out that the Federal Reserve notes are not the country currency, they are the government currency.

If you do not believe in democracy at all then why do you live in our country?

[mizerydearia]

don't get me wrong, I am not defending it at all. What I am saying is passing this wacky extremist bill is not going to do anything good for our economy, and I would bet you my entire Bitcoin wallet that it never does.

Can you explain how it would be bad for the economy? Also why do you use Bitcoin if you believe that undermining your country's currency is bad for the economy?

I agree with you, just want to point out that the Federal Reserve notes are not the country currency, they are the government currency.

Isn't federal reserve a company/bank?

[hugolp]

If you do not believe in democracy at all then why do you live in our country?

I do not live in the USA. But if I lived there, am I not allowed to have a different opinion and try to improve the system? Btw, if you dont agree with your president why do you live in your country?

have you actually read this bill?

the bill was to allow open competition for the united states reserve. Anyone can just start printing up their own money and using it. its madness and it would never work.

Oh my god, in your country there is open competition for food, and for clothes... Anyone can set up a hsop and start sell.ing trousers. Madness!!

Do you realize that most of the time in human history we have had competing currencies and it wored better than the present monetary system?

I use Bitcoin and I love it. I have been mining it before it got big, and I have used it to buy everything from computer hardware to domain names, but Bitcoin will never be the major currency of the USA and If you think that, or the only reason you are using Bitcoin is to (your own words) "undermine the countries currency" we are complete opposites. I think you can love Bitcoin and still be patriotic and Love the USA.

If you support a monopolly on money you are not patriotic, you are the opposite.

Btw, please expalin to me how Bitcoin is different than:

Anyone can just start printing up their own money and using it.

Fundamentalists like Ron Paul say things that sound great, but in reality if someone like Ron Paul or Sarah Palin comes into power you better be independently wealthy or your going to be completely screwed.

You have Barack Obama that its quite similar in policy to Sarah Palin and the situation is bad but ithe USA has not collapsed (yet). Ron Paul would be a real change from those two. You keep repeating that Ron Paul is a fundamentalist. Care to explain why?

[hugolp]

Isn't federal reserve a company/bank?

The Federal Reserve system is a mixed private/government system. But its mainly a government system, and the monopolly on money is imposed by the government, who delegates its management on the Federal Reserve.

[Elwar]

Here is the YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J2_opPwfqc

[Elwar]

Isn't federal reserve a company/bank?

The Federal Reserve system is a mixed private/government system. But its mainly a government system, and the monopolly on money is imposed by the government, who delegates its management on the Federal Reserve.

The only tie the US government has to the private Federal Reserve Bank is that it gets to choose the anointed head of the Federal Reserve whom is chosen from a list of the presidents of those private Federal Reserve Banks.

It would be like saying that McDonalds is a government restaurant if the US president was allowed to choose the CEO from a list of 12 vice-presidents.  (and that CEO did not have any special privileges as a majority vote of those 12 VPs would be required to do anything).

[hashman]

have you actually read this bill?

the bill was to allow open competition for the united states reserve.

What is this "united states reserve" you speak of?  The USA borrows money from the Federal Reserve, a private company.  The USA gave control of the dollar away to them 98 years ago.  

Fundamentalists like Ron Paul say things that sound great, but in reality if someone like Ron Paul or Sarah Palin comes into power you better be independently wealthy or your going to be completely screwed.

So how do you think those two politicians are alike?  Never heard that comparison before, lol.   Ron Paul wants to make it harder for people to rob you.  How is that going to make you more screwed?  The only people that will "screw" is those that want to take your money by inflating the money supply and not letting you have any alternatives.  

[cablepair]

I keep mentioning ron paul because he was the representative who submitted this lame duck bill.

Bitcoin is a global alternative currency that is useful in ways that traditional currencies are not and I do not see it as direct competitor to the Dollar or any other world currency.

and for the record I love my country and I do not support extremism in any shape or form.

It's obvious you have your own agenda and thats cool, I respect that but One fact you can't deny is that this bill will not pass.

[hugolp]

Isn't federal reserve a company/bank?

The Federal Reserve system is a mixed private/government system. But its mainly a government system, and the monopolly on money is imposed by the government, who delegates its management on the Federal Reserve.

The only tie the US government has to the private Federal Reserve Bank is that it gets to choose the anointed head of the Federal Reserve whom is chosen from a list of the presidents of those private Federal Reserve Banks.

It would be like saying that McDonalds is a government restaurant if the US president was allowed to choose the CEO from a list of 12 vice-presidents.  (and that CEO did not have any special privileges as a majority vote of those 12 VPs would be required to do anything).

You have been misinformed.

First of all, the government gets the benefits the Fed generates. If you want to know who controls a system check who gets the money.

But then what you said is not true. The government chooses the whole Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve. Its important to note that the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is a federal government agency and takes all the decisions on monetary policy in the USA (except open market operations).

The open market operations are decided by the FOMC, that is a board formed by 12 members. 7 are the 7 members of the federal government agency Board of Governors. The other 5 are presidents of the local Feds (the president of the New York Fed permanent, the other 4 rotatory).

The last part of the Federal Reserve system are the local feds. The local feds are a mix of government of private and government agencies but they are mainly government. The boards of the local feds are choosen 1/3 by the federal government, 1/3 by the local governments and 1/3 by the member private banks. So even the local feds, the ones accused usually of being private, are 2/3 government.

Being honest, how can anyone say that the Fed is a private entity? Its mainly a government entity, with a private touch.

[cablepair]

have you actually read this bill?

the bill was to allow open competition for the united states reserve.

What is this "united states reserve" you speak of?  The USA borrows money from the Federal Reserve, a private company.  The USA gave control of the dollar away to them 98 years ago.  

Fundamentalists like Ron Paul say things that sound great, but in reality if someone like Ron Paul or Sarah Palin comes into power you better be independently wealthy or your going to be completely screwed.

So how do you think those two politicians are alike?  Never heard that comparison before, lol.   Ron Paul wants to make it harder for people to rob you.  How is that going to make you more screwed?  The only people that will "screw" is those that want to take your money by inflating the money supply and not letting you have any alternatives.  

please elaborate on how ron paul wants to make it harder for people to rob me? I do not mind paying social security and medicare taxes because my mother is disabled after working her entire life and my grandmother is retired after working for 40 years. Both on social security, and I believe both of them deserve health insurance despite the fact that the only insurance they can afford is the kind they buy from the government (medicare)

[hugolp]

I keep mentioning ron paul because he was the representative who submitted this lame duck bill.

Bitcoin is a global alternative currency that is useful in ways that traditional currencies are not and I do not see it as direct competitor to the Dollar or any other world currency.

and for the record I love my country and I do not support extremism in any shape or form.

It's obvious you have your own agenda and thats cool, I respect that but One fact you can't deny is that this bill will not pass.

The question was why do you keep calling Ron Paul a fundamentalist. You dont need to keep dodging questions. You can answer, nobody is going to do anything to you. I would like to know why do you think Bitcoin is different from "anyone printin their own currency and using it".

And if by having my own agenda means discusing against the use of violence on people to impose one particular currency, then yes. I will discuss with people who has agenda like yours, because I dont understand why you want to use violence on people to impose a currency.

[Elwar]

First of all, the government gets the benefits the Fed generates. If you want to know who controls a system check who gets the money.

The government gets the benefits that McDonalds generates too.

[evoorhees]

and for the record I love my country and I do not support extremism in any shape or form.

Irony: loving a country that was founded by extremists and then denouncing extremism in any shape or form.

Tell me cablepair, what is it you love about America? Do you love the government? Or the people? Or the land? Or the freedom? Or do you just enjoy saluting the flag because it happens to be the one you were born under?

I love the principles upon which America was founded, but I hate the government. Am I a patriot, or an extremist?

[Elwar]

and for the record I love my country and I do not support extremism in any shape or form.

Irony: loving a country that was founded by extremists and then denouncing extremism in any shape or form.

Tell me cablepair, what is it you love about America? Do you love the government? Or the people? Or the land? Or the freedom? Or do you just enjoy saluting the flag because it happens to be the one you were born under?

I love the principles upon which America was founded, but I hate the government. Am I a patriot, or an extremist?

I'm proud to be an American where I used to be free! God Bless the USA!!!

collectivism is ugly

be an individual

[mizerydearia]

* mizerydearia cuts out eyes x_x

[Bert]

I suspect that the H.R. 1098 bill will be passed, because only very rich people hold any significant amounts of gold/silver. And if it passes, their gold/silver will suddenly be worth double, triple or a hell of a lot more.

[Elwar]

I suspect that H.R. 1098 will pass, because only very rich people hold any significant amounts of gold. And if it passes their gold will suddenly be worth double, triple or a hell of a lot more.

The value of their gold would go up by the same percentage as the value of the gold that you have.

The value of Bitcoin would also go up.

[JohnDoe]

have you actually read this bill?

the bill was to allow open competition for the united states reserve. Anyone can just start printing up their own money and using it. its madness and it would never work.

Yes, I've read it. Now could you explain why it is madness and would never work?

Btw, by using Bitcoin you are doing the same thing this bill wishes to legalize, only on a really small scale. So by your logic you are an extremist, you just didn't know it.

[hugolp]

First of all, the government gets the benefits the Fed generates. If you want to know who controls a system check who gets the money.

The government gets the benefits that McDonalds generates too.

The benefits that McDonals generate dont go to the government. McDonals pays taxes.

The benefits that the Federal Reserve System generates go to the government.

Look, youve been told different and dont want to believe a guy in the Internet. I understand and I think its a healthy attitude. Go check for yourself the USA law. Check for yourself if what Ive told you is true or not. You will see that Ive told you the truth.

I suspect that the H.R. 1098 bill will be passed, because only very rich people hold any significant amounts of gold/silver. And if it passes, their gold/silver will suddenly be worth double, triple or a hell of a lot more.

This law wont pass. In that I agree with the guy that advocated violence. If you want to bet I accept.

[Elwar]

The benefits that McDonals generate dont go to the government. McDonals pays taxes.

The government gets the same benefit from McDonalds that they get from the Federal Reserve. They get a product that they can buy.

Whether that is hamburgers for Congress or dollars for the US Mint. They are both products, paid for by the government to private entities.

[johnj]

Whether that is hamburgers for Congress or dollars for the US Mint. They are both products, paid for by the government to private entities.

 

[hugolp]

The benefits that McDonals generate dont go to the government. McDonals pays taxes.

The government gets the same benefit from McDonalds that they get from the Federal Reserve. They get a product that they can buy.

Whether that is hamburgers for Congress or dollars for the US Mint. They are both products, paid for by the government to private entities.

No, legally they are different things. And in real life they are quite different as well.

A corporation in the USA pays as taxes a percentage of their benefits. The USA has one of the highest corporate rate in the world (the first or the second if I recall correctly) and it is something over 20%. The Federal Reserve gives their benefits to the government. There is a big difference.

Also, the Fed is not private. Mcdonal is.

[Elwar]

Whether that is hamburgers for Congress or dollars for the US Mint. They are both products, paid for by the government to private entities.

 

US Congressman buying from McDonalds:

[Elwar]

The Federal Reserve gives their benefits to the government. There is a big difference.

The Federal Reserve just gives their money to the government at cost!?!? How nice of them.

If I was them I would charge interest....

oh that's right...they do

[hugolp]

The Federal Reserve gives their benefits to the government. There is a big difference.

The Federal Reserve just gives their money to the government at cost!?!? How nice of them.

If I was them I would charge interest....

oh that's right...they do

Do you realize that the interest that the Fed charges to the government is not real? The Fed charges the government interest on the gov debt that it holds. That money is benefits for the Fed. The benefit of the Fed goes back to the government. So what the government pays, the government gets back. Its not real.

Look, you should look to the original sources and make up your mind. I will have to leave it here.

[Bert]

... snip ...
Also, the Fed is not private. Mcdonal is.

Did you watch the video in the OP ?
The bill is to allow the US government to work around the issues caused by a privately held company which they can't control to protect the US people.

[hugolp]

... snip ...
Also, the Fed is not private. Mcdonal is.

Did you watch the video in the OP ?
The bill is to allow the US government to work around the issues caused by a privately held company which they can't control to protect the US people.

In the video nobody says the Fed is private. Please read what I have wrote explaining how the Fed works. And then go and check original sources and check if Im telling the truth or not.

Why do reason and logic dont work on people?

[kjj]

The Federal Reserve gives their benefits to the government. There is a big difference.

The Federal Reserve just gives their money to the government at cost!?!? How nice of them.

If I was them I would charge interest....

oh that's right...they do

Do you realize that the interest that the Fed charges to the government is not real? The Fed charges the government interest on the gov debt that it holds. That money is benefits for the Fed. The benefit of the Fed goes back to the government. So what the government pays, the government gets back. Its not real.

Look, you should look to the original sources and make up your mind. I will have to leave it here.

Be sure to read Working Paper 2007-052B from the St. Louis Fed's research division.

The fed mostly deals in short duration debt, which does not pay interest in the usual sense.  T-bills are sold at a discount to the primary dealers (who are not the fed), and then they are resold on the secondary market.  The FOMC operates to adjust liquidity and interest rates, but they don't really care about the interest they earn by doing so, only what their actions have on interest rates overall.

[hugolp]

Be sure to read Working Paper 2007-052B from the St. Louis Fed's research division.

The fed mostly deals in short duration debt, which does not pay interest in the usual sense.  T-bills are sold at a discount to the primary dealers (who are not the fed), and then they are resold on the secondary market.  The FOMC operates to adjust liquidity and interest rates, but they don't really care about the interest they earn by doing so, only what their actions have on interest rates overall.

The Fed mostly deals in short duration gov debt except when it does not. For example, during this crisis the Fed has been buying a lot of long term government debt.

Also, I am fully aware how the primary dealer system works. Does not change anything Ive said. The Fed says they buy and sell government bonds to adjust liquidity and interest rates (which is true) but the end result is that mid and long term they always end up buying government debt as net result. Check the data of the last 20 years of the Fed and you will see how they always increase the amount of gov debt they have. Its a way of sending money to the politicians.

[memvola]

Did he really meant Bitcoin, or was it just "bit coins" as a generic term for digital currencies without him even knowing about Bitcoin itself?

I think he meant our good old Bitcoin.

[NAGAjalokia]

I can not believe I just read someone compare Ron Paul and Sarah Palin. Now I've been paying (some) attention to the next election and our politicians and what not. and alllllllllll I see is a bunch of old white guys spewing the same old shit. Ron Paul is for small government, I am for small government. so if he makes it to the polls next year or so, I'll be there voting for him.

please don't ever mention sarah palin again..... she does not need to be spoken of, she is nothing.

Obama? Change? yeaaaaaaah.....right! how long is unemployment these days? like 2 years? and he's trying to extend it with a new bill? oh yeah thats gonna help people get a job. I'm sure every guy I see in the hood sitting on the porch drinking 40'z is gonna run to get a job after they find out they can get ANOTHER YEAR of unemployment....

which by the way, the gov't only pays a fraction of that, small/big businesses pay the rest. even if the guy quits and gets a job somewhere else, then gets fired, I still have to pay his fuckin unemployment.... crazy.

what I want out of the government is.... no more bailouts, no more printing money, no more wars (unless its defensive) and a solid 10-20 year rebuilding, i want those billions of bucks going to the DoD, to go to education, health care (not necessarily socialized, but atleast some R&D) and the people.

No mr.Obama, you may not take my guns, you cannot force me in some half-assed backwards obama-care, and NO WE DO NOT need anothor fuckin' 'Nam.

regardless of what you think, this country is going anywhere but up, I say we got another 10 to 15 and that might be generous. lets see who the next retard we (don't) elect is gonnna be.


(sorry for the bad language kids, I've been drinkin a 40 myself.....but I have a job, and today, I deserve this 40)

[error]

Ron Paul is for small government, I am for small government. so if he makes it to the polls next year or so, I'll be there voting for him.

The election that matters is much much sooner than that. The primaries will be in just a few months from now, while the snow is still falling. Make sure you're ready.

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

Gold supply increases exponentially,

Uhm there is only a finite amount of gold in the earth's crust...

We're probably very far from having all earth's gold mined. And besides, it can be synthesized. And eventually in the future even mined from other planets, who knows...

Just take a look on gold supply past growth:


And compare with the predictable future growth in bitcoin supply:

[makomk]

The value of their gold would go up by the same percentage as the value of the gold that you have.

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and the poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

[JohnDoe]

Gold supply increases exponentially,

Actually the gold extraction rate peaked a decade ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_gold

[MelMan2002]

Did he really meant Bitcoin, or was it just "bit coins" as a generic term for digital currencies without him even knowing about Bitcoin itself?

I think he meant our good old Bitcoin.

Yes, he did - Larry White is very familiar with Bitcoin.  Ron Paul, on the other hand, may not be as familiar.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Gold supply increases exponentially,

Actually the gold extraction rate peaked a decade ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_gold

Upon reading the supplied wiki article, I now have a question. Have we, or when will we, reach "Peak Bitcoin"? If the question merits another, feel free to start one.

[NAGAjalokia]

Gold supply increases exponentially,

Actually the gold extraction rate peaked a decade ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_gold

Upon reading the supplied wiki article, I now have a question. Have we, or when will we, reach "Peak Bitcoin"? If the question merits another, feel free to start one.

like 2033 or something check the graph ^^^

[JohnDoe]

Upon reading the supplied wiki article, I now have a question. Have we, or when will we, reach "Peak Bitcoin"? If the question merits another, feel free to start one.

Block 210,000 when 10,500,000 coins have been mined.

like 2033 or something check the graph ^^^

When talking about a peak in X commodity it means a peak in the extraction rate, not depletion. Also depletion will be around year ~2144, not 2033.

[theymos]

Here's where he mentioned it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OOXKrxStn0&t=20m50s

[MoonShadow]

like 2033 or something check the graph ^^^

When talking about a peak in X commodity it means a peak in the extraction rate, not depletion. Also depletion will be around year ~2144, not 2033.

Thank God!  A forum member who actually takes the time to completely understand a subject before answering questions!  As oppossed to the majority that takes a look at a truncated visual aid, never noticing that it's truncated.

[hugolp]

Gold supply increases exponentially,

Actually the gold extraction rate peaked a decade ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_gold

Its still to be seen if we have really reached peak gold or the mining activity of gold was low due to the depressed prices. With the new prices of gold, a lot of gold miners are starting new projects and we might see an increase in the extraction again.

[MoonShadow]

Did he really meant Bitcoin, or was it just "bit coins" as a generic term for digital currencies without him even knowing about Bitcoin itself?

I think he meant our good old Bitcoin.

Yes, he did - Larry White is very familiar with Bitcoin.  Ron Paul, on the other hand, may not be as familiar.

The Pauls may not be as familiar with Bitcoin as some, but they are aware of it.  But they don't need to really grok it, they have aides for that stuff.  They don't update their own blogs, either; and I seriously doubt that either one tweets.

[rokh]

When talking about a peak in X commodity it means a peak in the extraction rate, not depletion. Also depletion will be around year ~2144, not 2033.

I figured that I'd add that technically, we've been at peak bitcoin since the beginning, and it'll just go downhill from here.

[marcus_of_augustus]

hhmmmmmm.   but didn't the gold standard help drive us into a depression because the gov couldn't print money to help the deflation that caused the depression?

so now I am torn.  I want the law so as to help bitcoin...  but dont want the law because any economist will tell you that the gold standard hurts economies.

The bill is NOT for a gold standard, it is to repeal the legal tender laws that give fiat Federal Reserve bankster notes a monopoly over the money supply.

Monopolies are bad things; centralised, monopolised fiat monies are bad things on steroids spawning epic fails in every direction.