Is Poloniex liable?

[Mr_Snipes]

Wishing you all the best with your step forward.
Had a successful login attempt in spite of 2fa and go no reply from them about the details.
My account was frozen after my report. They unfroze it after 8 months.
To be clear I didn't have a lot of value on Poloniex, how they treat and ignore customers is just mind blowing.

[seoincorporation]

I still wonder... If they keep a lot of user's money, where is all this money going? Are they just to keep all the money of all those users whose accounts have been kidnaped? How much money does it imply>?

[kal_21]

My account is still frozen even after submitting the verification details .

Even the Poloniex support ticketing system sucks

Haven't even responded nor addressed it till now

service Ticket #962319

[audaciousbeing]

Its sheer disregard for human dignity for forcing someone to relinquish their rights in other to have access to their own hard earned money which was kept with them as a custodian. I even think its against human dignity to be subjected to that amount of ridiculous conditions. Poloniex is actually going beyond its reach and its doing it because they don't answer to anybody or regulatory agency that is why they can just wake up and think of a new way to subject their customers to another form of modern day slavery.

Banks today, are not as worse today. If I want to close an account, all I will be asked is to write a letter so also if I want to withdraw, I am not mandated to comply with any rules that does not comes from the Central Bank, if I am not comfortable with their services, I move on to another bank without any issue. Suing them to court is really good because they need to be held responsible for their action which can be likened to extortion and forceful denial of rightful resources and that should not be allowed to go away in a sane society. They further confirmed the argument of why there is need for regulatory intervention in this industry.

[Hueristic]

I have contacted Delaware investor protection agency again today and straight to voicemail. This is the second voicemail I have left so i got back in touch with Dlewares Attorney generals office and got past the intake person and got to a Tamika's (last name redacted) voicemail and will now give her some time to reply.

Upon further thought I believe this is actually federal as it is across state lines for me (which by definition makes it a federal case) and of course global for many of you which could make it a what, Interpol case? If of course it is in fact in the realm of criminal activity as opposed to civil which I'm assuming it currently is.

[crzy]

My account is still frozen even after submitting the verification details .

Even the Poloniex support ticketing system sucks

Haven't even responded nor addressed it till now

service Ticket #962319

The support team of Poloniex are quiet not good but I've never experience this thing before so luckily I'm still using my Poloniex account. I hope that cases like this will be resolve as soon as possible so Poloniex can be a great crypto exchange again. Just keep on emailing their team, they might answer your problem if they see your email so many times.

[seoincorporation]

Its sheer disregard for human dignity for forcing someone to relinquish their rights in other to have access to their own hard earned money which was kept with them as a custodian. I even think its against human dignity to be subjected to that amount of ridiculous conditions. Poloniex is actually going beyond its reach and its doing it because they don't answer to anybody or regulatory agency that is why they can just wake up and think of a new way to subject their customers to another form of modern day slavery.

Banks today, are not as worse today. If I want to close an account, all I will be asked is to write a letter so also if I want to withdraw, I am not mandated to comply with any rules that does not comes from the Central Bank, if I am not comfortable with their services, I move on to another bank without any issue. Suing them to court is really good because they need to be held responsible for their action which can be likened to extortion and forceful denial of rightful resources and that should be allowed to go away in a sane society. They further confirmed the argument of why there is need for regulatory intervention in this industry.

That's all. You've put into words my thoughts. Regarding crypto, it was supposed to be in a direct competition with banks, in a way of making people far more free than we are with the banking system. That's why such kind of actions concern me the most, for they are breaking the crypto principles, supposedly based on anonymity and freedom.
Some people take the new regulations as a necessary evil, given the illegal activities surrounding the system. But is renouncing to freedom the price we all must pay? To anonymity? If not, they are going to rob us and it is going to be well-seen?

[Wheelige]

While I'm not a lawyer in the land of freedom (US of A), but I am qualified in my country of residence (therefore am not able to give this as legal advice so please note this is not that, just my quick thoughts). I've had a quick look and I wouldn't classify this as extortion. They are not asking for your property (the closest possible ground) they are asking for your personal information. This is really just a breach of contract issue. When you deposit money to Poloniex is is similar to depositing it with a bank, the money is no longer yours but the property of the bank. They essentially become a debtor to you and are answerable to repay the money.

So in short this is not criminal behavior, it is a civil dispute. You may be able to file for breach of contract in your state of residence but i would recommend reading over Poloniex's terms on conditions (always a good idea when someone is being a pain) to see if they have contractually set the state of contract as their home state, which i believe is Delaware.

Another thing to look at could be around any fair trading/consumer guarantees legislation and regulatory bodies that could slap them over the wrist.

[figmentofmyass]

it's not extortion because there's no demand for money, property, services. it's a breach of terms/contract issue.

requiring customers to waive the right to sue (without recourse) won't be looked upon favorably by any court. if poloniex willfully violated its terms (eg refusing to pay creditors in spite of good faith compliance with their terms), or did so with gross negligence, that waiver will be laughed out of any respectable court.

writing an absolute bar to a lawsuit into a contract is totally unenforceable, period. not a lawyer, but i know that for damn sure. the only reason poloniex includes this kind of waiver is to deter gullible people from legal action and discourage them from even talking to a lawyer. it's not built to hold up in court.

the shadiest exchange at the moment is bittrex since they are still holding Syrians funds without paying them or even responding to their tickets

that's the breaks when you're a resident of a sanctioned country and dealing with an american company. i sympathize with syrians for sure, but the people running bittrex aren't brazen enough to violate sanctions. here's why:

OFAC considers non-compliance with sanctions to be a serious threat to national security and foreign relations. Consequently, those who breach OFAC sanctions without obtaining the proper license can face severe legal repercussions. Fines range up to $20 million, depending the offence, and prison sentences can be as long as 30 years.

one of the things people don't get here, i think, is that poloniex and bittrex don't give a fuck about consumer affairs departments. they want to deter as much legal action as possible, sure. but they're probably much more worried about being accused of facilitating terrorism and money laundering, and i suspect federal law enforcement/regulators are in regular communication with them.

[seoincorporation]

it's not extortion because there's no demand for money, property, services. it's a breach of terms/contract issue.

This is really interesting, thanks.
I don't know if personal information can be seen as a property (of course not) but, isn't it?
Of course, I agree with the point of poloniex just taking care of its own back, for they can be accused of many stuff. But, in every contract, when policies change, one of the implied parts should have the freedom to disagree and stop the commercial relationship at that very moment.
The property, in this case, is your money, which you no longer are able to use due to the change in their policies. Maybe this is not an extortion, but what is it then?
Just wondering, I don't totally understand how if a contract changes in its policies you are not able to say no and withdraw your funds, as well as stop all the relationship.
I feel that question has not been answered yet.

[Hueristic]

My tickets is open and no answered.

Attempts to send a document have been exhausted.

Withdraw/deposit - locked.
Trade - locked.

I tried several times to send documents for verification. Formally, I agreed to their cannibalistic conditions. But they promised not to freeze the withdrawal from legacy accounts of the funds until the verification was completed. Verification is not complete, the accounts are frozen. Poloniex is a liar.

What is your ticket number?

While I'm not a lawyer in the land of freedom (US of A), but I am qualified in my country of residence (therefore am not able to give this as legal advice so please note this is not that, just my quick thoughts). I've had a quick look and I wouldn't classify this as extortion. They are not asking for your property (the closest possible ground) they are asking for your personal information. This is really just a breach of contract issue. When you deposit money to Poloniex is is similar to depositing it with a bank, the money is no longer yours but the property of the bank. They essentially become a debtor to you and are answerable to repay the money.

So in short this is not criminal behavior, it is a civil dispute. You may be able to file for breach of contract in your state of residence but i would recommend reading over Poloniex's terms on conditions (always a good idea when someone is being a pain) to see if they have contractually set the state of contract as their home state, which i believe is Delaware.

Another thing to look at could be around any fair trading/consumer guarantees legislation and regulatory bodies that could slap them over the wrist.

I think you mis-read my complaint. I am not complaining they are requiring KYC.

I am complaining that in order to complete KYC you must AGREE to their Terms of Service which waives your civil rights to Sue them and I will not waive those rights.

it's not extortion because there's no demand for money, property, services. it's a breach of terms/contract issue.

requiring customers to waive the right to sue (without recourse) won't be looked upon favorably by any court. if poloniex willfully violated its terms (eg refusing to pay creditors in spite of good faith compliance with their terms), or did so with gross negligence, that waiver will be laughed out of any respectable court.

writing an absolute bar to a lawsuit into a contract is totally unenforceable, period. not a lawyer, but i know that for damn sure. the only reason poloniex includes this kind of waiver is to deter gullible people from legal action and discourage them from even talking to a lawyer. it's not built to hold up in court.

the shadiest exchange at the moment is bittrex since they are still holding Syrians funds without paying them or even responding to their tickets

that's the breaks when you're a resident of a sanctioned country and dealing with an american company. i sympathize with syrians for sure, but the people running bittrex aren't brazen enough to violate sanctions. here's why:

OFAC considers non-compliance with sanctions to be a serious threat to national security and foreign relations. Consequently, those who breach OFAC sanctions without obtaining the proper license can face severe legal repercussions. Fines range up to $20 million, depending the offence, and prison sentences can be as long as 30 years.

one of the things people don't get here, i think, is that poloniex and bittrex don't give a fuck about consumer affairs departments. they want to deter as much legal action as possible, sure. but they're probably much more worried about being accused of facilitating terrorism and money laundering, and i suspect federal law enforcement/regulators are in regular communication with them.

No there is no demand for money but they HAVE actually seizing it and refusing to release it without you waiving your rights, how is that differant than them attempting to take your money?

Extortion Definition:
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

The threat is the terms and conditions and they have obtained our funds by freezing the accounts so I believe this is correct terminology unless someone can give me a better definition for their actions?

[seoincorporation]

No there is no demand for money but they HAVE actually seizing it and refusing to release it without you waiving your rights, how is that differant than them attempting to take your money?

Extortion Definition:
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

The threat is the terms and conditions and they have obtained our funds by freezing the accounts so I believe this is correct terminology unless someone can give me a better definition for their actions?

That's my concern too, but it seems that nobody is willing to answer the central question: What happens when they cut-off my access to my own funds based on a change in their policies I don't agree with?
How shall we name it?
I've searched for even a tiny new about the poloniex issue but the internet remains in apparent silent with the matter.

[Hueristic]

No there is no demand for money but they HAVE actually seizing it and refusing to release it without you waiving your rights, how is that differant than them attempting to take your money?

Extortion Definition:
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

The threat is the terms and conditions and they have obtained our funds by freezing the accounts so I believe this is correct terminology unless someone can give me a better definition for their actions?

That's my concern too, but it seems that nobody is willing to answer the central question: What happens when they cut-off my access to my own funds based on a change in their policies I don't agree with?
How shall we name it?
I've searched for even a tiny new about the poloniex issue but the internet remains in apparent silent with the matter.

Well it is obvious to me that they are working in conjunction with LEA but since I have nothing to hide (nor lose) so I am calling them out. It is plain as day that they got the laws they wanted into place and then the institutions moved in they got everyone they could mapped on the chain and now they are trying to use it to categorize us an monitor. This was always going to happen so it's no surprise that it has and I have no illusions about changing that but taking our rights away a little at a time just turns my stomach. The founding fathers of our country and those that have died defending it are turning in their graves watching the oligarchy strip away our inalienable rights (which apparently are not worth the paper they were written on).

The internet is silent because it's filled with sheeple.

BTW no return call today so monday I goto my own states attorney general.

[zahed]

I'm not using poloniex because still i see maximum potential alt coin not include this exchange i don't know better about poloniex.
My friend use this & his feedback it more reliable.

[figmentofmyass]

it's not extortion because there's no demand for money, property, services. it's a breach of terms/contract issue.

This is really interesting, thanks.
I don't know if personal information can be seen as a property (of course not) but, isn't it?

ah, i see what you're saying. i was focusing on the "poloniex refusing to pay creditors according to their agreed upon terms" angle, which i see as a breach of contract, not a matter of extortion (civil or criminal).

that's an interesting take, at a time where personal data has such an obvious dollar value now.

Of course, I agree with the point of poloniex just taking care of its own back, for they can be accused of many stuff. But, in every contract, when policies change, one of the implied parts should have the freedom to disagree and stop the commercial relationship at that very moment.
The property, in this case, is your money, which you no longer are able to use due to the change in their policies. Maybe this is not an extortion, but what is it then?

i believe that poloniex willfully violated its terms---they breached contract, which is a civil tort worth your deposited money + possibly additional damages. they have refused to pay creditors in spite of good faith compliance with their terms. if they make the argument that they were overwhelmed by customer verification queues or other such nonsense, i would counter that they were grossly negligent in complying with their own stated terms.

like i said, i believe that waiver of your right to sue would be laughed out of court.

the irony here though, is that you would need to identify yourself (to poloniex and the courts) in order to sue poloniex. if the ultimate issue is shielding your identity, you can't get resolution from the courts at all IMO.

Just wondering, I don't totally understand how if a contract changes in its policies you are not able to say no and withdraw your funds, as well as stop all the relationship.
I feel that question has not been answered yet.

i think it's a breach of contract. it's something you can sue over (with the above catch-22).

not a lawyer by trade so take what i say with a grain of salt.......

[Macmacmac]

Poloniex is scam !

My account is frozen one month now.

They asked for my identity papers and verification.
I sent them a dozen times.
NO RESPONSE!

I opened 2 weeks ago ticket. #964251
NO RESPONSE!

Im afraid I have lost my savings on poloniex.

BE AWARE... THEY SCAM A LOT!!

[seoincorporation]

i believe that poloniex willfully violated its terms---they breached contract, which is a civil tort worth your deposited money + possibly additional damages. they have refused to pay creditors in spite of good faith compliance with their terms. if they make the argument that they were overwhelmed by customer verification queues or other such nonsense, i would counter that they were grossly negligent in complying with their own stated terms.

like i said, i believe that waiver of your right to sue would be laughed out of court.

the irony here though, is that you would need to identify yourself (to poloniex and the courts) in order to sue poloniex. if the ultimate issue is shielding your identity, you can't get resolution from the courts at all IMO.

Great conclusion. I didn't think about that and you're are absolutely right. No matter what path you choose, either they keep blocked your account (and your money) or you will be obligated to provide your data... This is a sad situation, badly managed. I don't know if the people are going to suit them (I don't have any money in Poloniex, so I won't take any action), but maybe public pressure can be a tool.

BTW no return call today so monday I goto my own states attorney general.

Let's see what happens, and best of luck.
actualize us if you can, please, this is a big issue and, under my point of view, how it is going to be seen and resolved matters a lot in the crypto world.
I hope you have your funds back soon.

[TrumpD]

I have been trying to withdraw from Polo over 4 weeks now, and threads like this make my heart sink. They asked for KYC, which was duly submitted. But still I cannot withdraw my assets. It is beyond a joke now, and for me a big lesson learnt.

Are they a scam? I cannot tell, the reviews are mixed, it seems like they hold on to funds for as long as they can get away with it.

You must agree to their terms of service which states you waive the right to sue them in order to access your funds and withdraw. It also states that you also agree to waive your rights if you try to use their ticket support system as well which as far as I know is the only other way to remove funds.

So to all you lawyers out there is this Extortion or not?

This is clearly an extortion attempt. Even if you waived your right to sue them, it will not stand in court, I tell you.

[Hueristic]

...
I hope you have your funds back soon.

As I've posted earlier it's not about the funds.

I have been trying to withdraw from Polo over 4 weeks now, and threads like this make my heart sink. They asked for KYC, which was duly submitted. But still I cannot withdraw my assets. It is beyond a joke now, and for me a big lesson learnt.

Are they a scam? I cannot tell, the reviews are mixed, it seems like they hold on to funds for as long as they can get away with it.

You must agree to their terms of service which states you waive the right to sue them in order to access your funds and withdraw. It also states that you also agree to waive your rights if you try to use their ticket support system as well which as far as I know is the only other way to remove funds.

So to all you lawyers out there is this Extortion or not?

This is clearly an extortion attempt. Even if you waived your right to sue them, it will not stand in court, I tell you.

If you submitted and they are still not unlocking your account then you need to contact a lawyer. Go ahead and shoot me an email at the address I posted in the OP.

[Wheelige]

While I'm not a lawyer in the land of freedom (US of A), but I am qualified in my country of residence (therefore am not able to give this as legal advice so please note this is not that, just my quick thoughts). I've had a quick look and I wouldn't classify this as extortion. They are not asking for your property (the closest possible ground) they are asking for your personal information. This is really just a breach of contract issue. When you deposit money to Poloniex is is similar to depositing it with a bank, the money is no longer yours but the property of the bank. They essentially become a debtor to you and are answerable to repay the money.

So in short this is not criminal behavior, it is a civil dispute. You may be able to file for breach of contract in your state of residence but i would recommend reading over Poloniex's terms on conditions (always a good idea when someone is being a pain) to see if they have contractually set the state of contract as their home state, which i believe is Delaware.

Another thing to look at could be around any fair trading/consumer guarantees legislation and regulatory bodies that could slap them over the wrist.

I think you mis-read my complaint. I am not complaining they are requiring KYC.

I am complaining that in order to complete KYC you must AGREE to their Terms of Service which waives your civil rights to Sue them and I will not waive those rights.

Hi, I understood your complaint and i apologise if my response was too compact and open to interpretation. I was stating that they are not extorting anything because they are not asking for your property they are asking for your personal information (which is not your property) or a waiver of contractual remedy. As noted they are looking to change the contractual relationship between yourself and them and this cannot be done unilaterally and you have the right to refuse and enforce the contract to receive the money you have deposited with them (which is THEIR property at this point). They are not required to continue to provide the same services however and so you cant enforce continuation of trading with previous terms.