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Author Topic: [ANN] Bit-Pay Mobile Checkout - this changes everything!  (Read 6991 times)
defxor
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September 17, 2011, 07:57:07 PM
 #61

The Bitcoin ecosystem requires centralized trusted parties to operate - exchanges

Well. It doesn't require them, although it ends up making things easier for a lot of people. Only one out of all my Bitcoin transactions have been to a "centralized" exchange, the rest have been P2P.

For one thing, since I have been of the opinion that for Bitcoin to succeed people must use it and not speculate in buy-and-hold I've always told people who become interested in Bitcoin that they can get some from me, at market rate. (Which is currently about half of my average acquisition price)

I wish more people did, and I have high hopes for the current bubble deflation to weed out most of the get-quick-rich "it can only get higher" so-called investors.

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September 17, 2011, 08:24:18 PM
 #62


This is two guys with no financial experience operating out of a house in Florida. The odds are that they will screw up. Merchants need legal protection for when they do.

@Nagle

This kind of post make you sound like you work for Paypal or some other financial "institutions"..

Apple was founded by a couple of guys out of a garage in California. Hewllet and Packard convened in a garage in Palo Alto.
To me the story of two guys operating out of a house in Florida sounds rather promising.

Proprietary software is doomed and so is Paypal.

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September 17, 2011, 09:02:44 PM
 #63

edit:  you've called Bitcoin a Ponzi.  clearly either you don't understand the definition of a Ponzi or you don't understand Bitcoin.

Bitcoin has aspects of a Ponzi scheme, in that, during the runup phase, those getting money out were getting it from people who put it in earlier, and much of the gain accrued to the people who set the thing up. Some early proponents wrote about Bitcoin as if it generated revenue, which is why I used the term "Ponzi scheme".  The important point is that Bitcoin speculation is a zero-sum game. There's no revenue being generated.  It's a variant on a pyramid scheme, or, as someone else wrote, "technically it's a pump and dump".  There are many variations on this theme; check out "High Yield Investment Programs".  The common elements are 1) it's zero-sum, and 2) the early adopters make money at the expense of the later ones.

Bitcoin, as a technology, does solve one problem - irrevocable unidirectional money transfer between remote anonymous parties. The Bitcoin world then shows how a financial system based on irrevocable unidirectional money transfer between remote anonymous parties fails.  That's what interests me.

The Bitcoin ecosystem requires centralized trusted parties to operate - exchanges, "online wallet" services, payment processors, and such. The idea behind Bitcoin was supposed to be that no central services were required. But the Bitcoin technology doesn't solve enough of the problem to allow that.

Because Bitcoin transfers can be anonymous, the community assumed that trusted services could also be anonymous. That has not worked out well. Many of the services have turned out to be run by people who took the money and ran. Even the services that are still around are on the flaky side. That's why I take a hard line on due diligence.

The interesting technical question is whether an anonymous system that doesn't require centralized trusted parties can be developed.  It has to do more than support simple money transfer. It needs a way to guarantee that, before the transaction becomes irrevocable, both sides have received whatever they agreed to receive. That's hard, but may not be impossible.

That's all I'm going to say in response to "cypherdoc", other than Parker Posey's line from "Party Girl": "Get a last name and we'll talk".

clearly you don't understand what a Ponzi scheme is.  your post has so many misconceptions that i'm not going to address them directly but indirectly.  i prefer to contrast Bitcoin with a ponzi scheme as defined by Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

firstly, there is no fraud involved in the technology itself which is composed of the computer network and block chain via generation of bit coins and tx verification.  all the security issues we've witnessed are secondary phenomena from businesses surrounding the trading of Bitcoin itself.  secondly, its not a company or organization that generates revenue to be distributed to shareholders.  Bitcoin acts like money or currency, or a store of value.  the USD or gold do not generate revenues either but they do go up and down in value relative to other currencies.  you  wouldn't call these 2 forms of money ponzi's would you?  thirdly, Bitcoin doesn't necessarily require an ever increasing flow of money to become more valuable.  we could keep the same number of people invested in Bitcoin as there is today but if these same people begin to perceive more value in a Bitcoin, they will pay more for them driving the price up.  fourthly, Bitcoin is not destined to collapse IMO.  its been out for almost 3 yrs now and the network or block chain itself has not been disturbed.  many hackers have tried but failed.  no one's been cheated via a double spend and no past tx's have been altered.  fifthly, no one is selling securities here; these are Bitcoins, unique to themselves and more a form of money than anything.  sixth, i don't see any authorities claiming they are illegal either.  

as far as the early adopters; they did not solicit OPM to get their computers mining btc's.  they invested their own fiat USD's to "earn" those bit coins by dedicating computational power and time along with electrical costs to generating Bitcoins, securing the network, and verifying tx's.  at the beginning in 2009 it was far from clear Bitcoin would go to 31.  in fact, the famous 10000 btc's for a pizza is indicative of this.  no malice of intent as in a ponzi was ever present in these early adopters as that guy would never have given up that many bit coin for a mere pizza if he knew the price would subsequently ramp.  as the idea caught on of course the price ramped as many see a valid promising concept.  and of course, some of the early adopters (not all) sold as they became more valuable.  that is not a ponzi.  there was risk involved. would you call those early buyers of Apple stock who are selling today at $400/sh ponzi schemers?  i think not.  also, the Bitcoin network or block chain shows no signs of vanishing from fear of being "found out".  its a mathematical concept that just keeps grinding along no matter what the USD price.  this will persist even if the price down to $.01.  no returns were promised and no one is going to run off with the btc's in the blockchain.  they will always be there freely available to anyone who wishes to buy them.

there is no "schemer" that acts as a hub for its victims.  there is no schemer acting to prevent or minimize withdrawals from the system.   there is no schemer "promising" higher returns.  there is no schemer acting to deceive.  you might point to BW but he is not involved in the mathematics or source code behind Bitcoin in any way, just the "business" surrounding Bitcoin.

the drop in price could simply be from a worsening of the general economy.  no one knows for sure.  the fundamentals, though, have not changed one iota and the network will persist.  its possible for a competing technology  will come along and replace Bitcoin or that a fatal flaw may be exploited in the future but it sure doesn't look that way to me.  but these potential weaknesses in no way indicate a ponzi scheme.

if you choose not to respond to cypherdoc it would be more from you not willing to be intellectually challenged.
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September 17, 2011, 10:51:49 PM
 #64

@Nagle I can appreciate that you don't believe bitcoin will be successful.  I also understand that there have been several spectacular failures when it comes to bitcoin related businesses and people are understandably cautious.  I think you have good intentions by trying to check into the operations of bitcoin related businesses, but I encourage you to contact us directly, talk to us by phone, and even meet with us in person if you have concerns about our operations.  We are just a couple of people trying to find a niche in an exciting new frontier.

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
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September 17, 2011, 11:04:41 PM
 #65

Dude, this is the future!  Bitpay rocks! All kinds of cool!

"It is, quite honestly, the biggest challenge to central banking since Andrew Jackson." -evoorhees
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September 17, 2011, 11:25:20 PM
 #66

Bitcoin has aspects of a Ponzi scheme, in that, during the runup phase, those getting money out were getting it from people who put it in earlier, and much of the gain accrued to the people who set the thing up. Some early proponents wrote about Bitcoin as if it generated revenue, which is why I used the term "Ponzi scheme".  The important point is that Bitcoin speculation is a zero-sum game. There's no revenue being generated.  It's a variant on a pyramid scheme, or, as someone else wrote, "technically it's a pump and dump".  There are many variations on this theme; check out "High Yield Investment Programs".  The common elements are 1) it's zero-sum, and 2) the early adopters make money at the expense of the later ones.

Dollar is a ponzi scheme, euro is a ponzi scheme, gold is a ponzi scheme, your dog is a ponzi scheme.
Bitcoin is a revolutionary secure protocol.


Bitcoin, as a technology, does solve one problem - irrevocable unidirectional money transfer between remote anonymous parties. The Bitcoin world then shows how a financial system based on irrevocable unidirectional money transfer between remote anonymous parties fails.  That's what interests me.

Not more, not less. So stop bashing and be positive.

The Bitcoin ecosystem requires centralized trusted parties to operate - exchanges, "online wallet" services, payment processors, and such. The idea behind Bitcoin was supposed to be that no central services were required. But the Bitcoin technology doesn't solve enough of the problem to allow that.


No centralized system is mandatory, only convenient to develop new services.


Because Bitcoin transfers can be anonymous, the community assumed that trusted services could also be anonymous. That has not worked out well. Many of the services have turned out to be run by people who took the money and ran. Even the services that are still around are on the flaky side. That's why I take a hard line on due diligence.

Agreed, due dilligence is always needed.

The interesting technical question is whether an anonymous system that doesn't require centralized trusted parties can be developed.  It has to do more than support simple money transfer. It needs a way to guarantee that, before the transaction becomes irrevocable, both sides have received whatever they agreed to receive. That's hard, but may not be impossible.

You call it escrow ? Anyway, for every scam, there is thousands of successful transactions.

That's all I'm going to say in response to "cypherdoc", other than Parker Posey's line from "Party Girl": "Get a last name and we'll talk".

Irrelevant and arrogant.


If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
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September 18, 2011, 12:14:27 AM
 #67

@Nagle I can appreciate that you don't believe bitcoin will be successful.  I also understand that there have been several spectacular failures when it comes to bitcoin related businesses and people are understandably cautious.  I think you have good intentions by trying to check into the operations of bitcoin related businesses, but I encourage you to contact us directly, talk to us by phone, and even meet with us in person if you have concerns about our operations.  We are just a couple of people trying to find a niche in an exciting new frontier.

These guys are the real deal.  Very friendly, smart, and successful.  One even takes pictures of hot chicks as a side gig, ah to be single.  We are lucky to have them.  If they could quite their day jobs you'd know a lot more so accept Bitcoin and use Bit-Pay!

http://www.btclog.com/uploads/FileUpload/e6/9cc97eb4c91db1ec5fb30ca35f0da8.png
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payb.tc
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September 18, 2011, 01:16:58 AM
 #68

That's all I'm going to say in response to "cypherdoc", other than Parker Posey's line from "Party Girl": "Get a last name and we'll talk".

Irrelevant and arrogant.

i completely agree.
vennali
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July 12, 2015, 01:27:25 PM
 #69

Does anyone know what happens incase there is a delay on the confirmation on blockchain ? I had a transaction sent to Neteller through bitpay and took around 24 hours to confirm but didn't show up on my Neteller account. Usually it shows up right after 1 confirmation.

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BillyBones
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July 12, 2015, 01:39:35 PM
 #70

Do you all still believe that Mobile phones are safer for any money transactions, it is the most dangerous tool which will expose to you to the world and pave the path to steal your information related to you wallet or any money. If you are still interested to use Mobile phone for pay out things, then remove those software where they ask permission to access your entire phone details.

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July 12, 2015, 02:02:37 PM
 #71

Does anyone know what happens incase there is a delay on the confirmation on blockchain ? I had a transaction sent to Neteller through bitpay and took around 24 hours to confirm but didn't show up on my Neteller account. Usually it shows up right after 1 confirmation.

I used several payment services the past few days and they all eventually went through even though the transaction showed that it had timed out.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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July 12, 2015, 02:09:57 PM
 #72

Ugh. Resurrecting the dead. And here I was thinking that Bitpay had come out with something new and better again.
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July 12, 2015, 02:33:22 PM
 #73

Does anyone know what happens incase there is a delay on the confirmation on blockchain ? I had a transaction sent to Neteller through bitpay and took around 24 hours to confirm but didn't show up on my Neteller account. Usually it shows up right after 1 confirmation.

Has happened to me in past . The balance eventually shows up in neteller . Contact the support and they will probably expedite it. give them all the details as well.
scarsbergholden
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July 12, 2015, 03:21:28 PM
 #74

So i have been experimenting with the mobile POS terminals for a garage sale i have coming up and is pretty easy to work with, dont know if im going to be able to use it but i guess is good to know how it works in a possible scenario.

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July 12, 2015, 03:25:32 PM
 #75


I used several payment services the past few days and they all eventually went through even though the transaction showed that it had timed out.


Has happened to me in past . The balance eventually shows up in neteller . Contact the support and they will probably expedite it. give them all the details as well.


Thanks guys. Neteller replied that they were tracking my payment and have received it and will credit it to my account ,  So doesn't look like it was a problem . I was just worried because at first it showed rejected.

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SAFEDICE.COM
....
████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
Instant Withdrawal ●
..Monero Coin (XMR) Support ●
Secured with 2FA &  SSL ●

████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
....
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