Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB

[ratty]

Thanks for the quote,

You are welcome. And yes, this forum contains way too much information, my brain demands a direct link. :-)

It would be great if they had a news page or a twitter feed where this kind of information is posted. This thread is the only place to get information right now. The newest news item on the website is about mtgox addresses, nothing about the stats hack or NMC payout delays. I understand people are busy, but if someone has time to reply to posts here, can't they write a few lines and post on some official site? Twitter is good for this kind of thing, just takes seconds of time to tweet "NMC payouts delayed until further notice" and we'd all see that and wait patiently.

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[TodaysGandalf]

I come to you all with head down hat in hand.  I aired my frustrations on a public forum.  For that I deeply apologize.
Thank you Biomech for seeing the truth.  I was just venting.

As I suspected would happen, much of what I said was misconstrued, or only partially read.  Hopefully I can be more clear here.

1) I am not being a troll and trying discourage ANYONE about Bitcoin.

2) I am frustrated at the lengths we individual miners must go to in order to compete with CORPORATIONS that only have to expend the effort it takes to wiggle their pinky finger and drop 100 million dollars on mining equipment and the datacenters in which to run them.  In a few short months, we find ourselves competing against tens of PETAHASHES on the network, generated in large part by these corporations.  THAT is my primary frustration.  Anything created for the good of all, which I believe Bitcoin was, can be and has been perverted by the rich and powerful.

3) Yes, I was very frustrated with not seeing anything extra from finding a block.  I was deluded and venting.  Boo Hoo.  That was purely MY passing frustration.  I knew when I posted that it is the way it is and it cannot change.  I never said it SHOULD or even COULD change.  I was simply frustrated that I had to share something that I'd rather not.  I'm man enough to admit that.  Boo Hoo for me.  I get it.  My bet is that any one of you would rather get that 25BTC payout than share it.  Enough said, next topic.

4) Yes, I am a common man.  I am currently unemployed.  Yes, right now, 1.2TH is PUNY... when competing against PETAHASHES of corporate greed.  The last time I checked total network hashing power two weeks ago it was 14PH, today it's 37PH.  How much of that is individuals doing mining?  I doubt individuals constitute more than 2% of all that power.  We ALL have reason to bitch because it takes far more than 1.2TH get a decent return.  It PAINS ME that the common working man cannot participate in mining and make a decent return from a level of mining power he can afford.  Pool-based mining is not a necessary component of Bitcoin or any other Cryptocurrency.  Pools are a reaction to the ceaseless rise of the difficulty level beyond belief, caused by those that can afford to purchase a Hell of a lot more hashing power than 1.2TH.  Without pools we would all be seeing zero return from our miners except for the extremely rare found block.

Do you know (or care) how I got my 1.2 Terahashes?  By ME going into far more PERSONAL DEBT than is rational, to purchase mining power.  So don't accuse me of flaunting my wares, I didn't inherit my money or miners.  Your envy is unbecoming.  I'm simply trying to get to a level of hashing power that can support mining as an even minor profit making venture, as I know all of you attempting to do, or should be doing.

If you are doing this as a hobby, I advise you to choose another hobby.  The costs of keeping your miners running will eat you alive.  My electric bill has gone up $210 per month.  I'll be lucky to break even between electricity and interest payments.  That's my choice.  You chose your limit of financial exposure to mining, I chose mine.  I just happened to put more skin in the game than you.  However, in the end, it is just ME ALONE choosing to compete with the Goliath that is the network of hashing power, not an over privileged wealthy family or a corporation that cares nothing about any other aspect of Bitcoin than profit.  I happen to care a great deal about its potential to bring about social and governmental change, for the better.

5) Pure communism, at its roots, was about everyone pulling together for the good of all.  A laudable goal.  I recognize that.  That system, as well as every other nation-state political organization, has been polluted and corrupted for the good of the elite, without fail.

In my frustration I used phrasing that hit upon an inflammatory response.  It is your interpretation of my comments that got you all riled up, not my true meaning.  I was simply referring to the purist definition of communism which eschews individual gain over the good of all.

As per dictionary.com:
com·mu·nism  [kom-yuh-niz-uhm] noun
-- a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

6) You HAD to play the nationality card.  Yes, I am American.  As I said in a previous post, I live in Minnesota, so I cannot deny it.  Be that as it may, I do not take my personal identity from the country where I was born or in which I reside.  I propose that, not saying anything about whatever country in which you reside, that you are lumping all Americans with whatever preconceived prejudice you have, and not many facts.  Additionally, the American government and some of my fellow Americans have committed acts with which I take great embarrassment, not pride.  Lastly, since you are making personal attacks, I have a solid enough command of the English language and grammar to know it is written "you're American" not "your American" and I punctuate it correctly as well.  Enough personal bashing.

7) Why can't people make a point on this, or any other boards, without fucking swearing and impugning the educational level of the audience.

8 ) I've been mining since January, 2014.  I've spent much of my life savings and credit to get seriously into mining.  > I < take offense that you ASSUME you know who I am, what I am about or that I FEEL ENTITLED to ANYTHING.  You know nothing of what you speak, and I have made no aspersions as to who or what anyone else on this board is about.  I suggest you reign in your venom spitting fangs.  Given the level of difficulty right now, I doubt I will find another block with my MEASLY 1.2TH.  Keep in mind that your 500GH is quite ostentatious and offensive to someone that can't afford more than a few 1.2GH USB miners.  Also keep in mind that lightening can strike anywhere and your 500GH of miners may also find a block.

Lastly, I have not written one word of denigration or complaint about Eligius or its principal operators pertaining to any of the issues that have plagued the pool recently.  Read my post closely.  I was just complaining about the way block rewards are handled in a childish tantrum of frustration.  Authoring that post is something I regret greatly.  However, the deed is done.

[TodaysGandalf]

and now for something completely different...
Anyone else get a BTC deposit from "wizstats donations?"
I have no clue what that is from.

[Luke-Jr]

and now for something completely different...
Anyone else get a BTC deposit from "wizstats donations?"
I have no clue what that is from.

Bitcoins aren't sent *from* anywhere.

[TodaysGandalf]

All I know is my Android wallet software is reporting BTC has been deposited TO my wallet FROM "wizstats donations."

The blockchain reports the sources as having been:
1ChANGeATMH8dFnj39wGTjfjudUtLspzXr
1QGq9aXqpH6hEJnnbf7fnFbHJCEtBZCx83
1StatsQytc7UEZ9sHJ9BGX2csmkj8XZr2 (wizstats donations )

If you aren't concerned, then I'm not.

[Luke-Jr]

All I know is my Android wallet software is reporting BTC has been deposited TO my wallet FROM "wizstats donations."

The blockchain reports the sources as having been:
1ChANGeATMH8dFnj39wGTjfjudUtLspzXr
1QGq9aXqpH6hEJnnbf7fnFbHJCEtBZCx83
1StatsQytc7UEZ9sHJ9BGX2csmkj8XZr2 (wizstats donations )

If you aren't concerned, then I'm not.

Transactions don't have sources. The Android wallet software and blockchain.info (which is NOT the blockchain) are buggily fabricating this "information". I'd advise ignoring it.

[idoB]

I'm a plankton miner compared to some of the whales in this pool - however:

My miners ALWAYS report effective hash rate that is always higher than my 12hr average Eligius stat:

Shown below are my 5 overclocked BEs reporting total of  2.55GH/s (all time effective):


While my 12hr average stat reports 2.44GH/s:


Now this ~1% difference is consistent. It's never seen the numbers the other way around (higher stats).

What am I missing? Am I seeing a 1% fee on eligius?

[baddw]

I'm a plankton miner compared to some of the whales in this pool - however:

My miners ALWAYS report effective hash rate that is always higher than my 12hr average Eligius stat:

Shown below are my 5 overclocked BEs reporting total of  2.55GH/s (all time effective):


While my 12hr average stat reports 2.44GH/s:


Now this ~1% difference is consistent. It's never seen the numbers the other way around (higher stats).

What am I missing? Am I seeing a 1% fee on eligius?

Do you see to the right, the "R:35+5(.53%)" and "HW:916/(.74%)" information?  That stands for "Rejects" and "HardWare errors", respectively.  These are NOT accepted or counted as valid shares.  They have to be subtracted from your true hashrate in order to get your pool-reported hashrate.  This happens with all pools on all kinds of coins.

Also, the pool has no idea what your actual hashrate is, but must estimate based on the frequency of of the shares that you submit, and their difficulty.  You are mining for the pool at difficulty 16, so any shares over difficulty 16 are reported to the pool.  These are multiplied by some factor to get your raw shares number, equivalent to what your shares would be if they were all difficulty 1.  Some miners with lower powered systems might be mining at difficulty 1, so all of their shares would be submitted and counted individually, with no multiplication factor. 

This is a way for the pool to avoid being overloaded... if all of the powerful miners were submitting at difficulty level 1, the server would go crazy handling all of the connections.  So the pool throttles your difficulty upwards so that you send a steady stream of results, but not too much.  Again, all pools do this.

[baddw]

2) I am frustrated at the lengths we individual miners must go to in order to compete with CORPORATIONS that only have to expend the effort it takes to wiggle their pinky finger and drop 100 million dollars on mining equipment and the datacenters in which to run them.  In a few short months, we find ourselves competing against tens of PETAHASHES on the network, generated in large part by these corporations.  THAT is my primary frustration.  Anything created for the good of all, which I believe Bitcoin was, can be and has been perverted by the rich and powerful.

I will note that these huge corporations are also the ones who enabled you to be mining at 1.2TH. 

Of course, if you are the typical mining rig buyer, then you probably got screwed by those corporations, in that your investment will probably never pay off in BTC; but that depends on the details of your rig, how much you paid, and when you started mining.

I will also note that many of these companies were not started or funded by "the rich and powerful".  A lot of them were just nerdy guys, hardware engineers, who got into Bitcoin back when CPU mining was possible, then GPU mining, then they pooled their resources and built some ASICs.  Intel, AMD, nVidia, ARM, none of the big multi-billion-dollar chip manufacturers has dared to step their toes in these waters.  And I haven't heard of any bitcoin ASIC company worth 100 million dollars, or any bitcoin-related company that has actually spent 100 million dollars on anything.  (Some may own 100M worth of BTC currently, but they bought them much cheaper.)  I think the 10 million dollar range was about the highest that I've heard of.  But I could be wrong.  But the point is, these guys may have been fairly well-off to begin with, but they were not your hedge fund, media mogul, Davos types.

And I will FURTHER note that pooled mining has been pretty much the only decent option, going back pretty far.  If you were CPU mining, or were one of the first to GPU mine when everybody else was on CPU's, or one of the first to ASIC mine when everybody else was on GPU's, then maybe it might have made sense to mine solo.  Or maybe if you had a datacenter setup with, say, a full rack of machines all hashing away.  Then maybe you could mine solo.  But if you are just the "guy in his garage" even with a decent number of machines, pooling has been by far the most consistent way to earn BTC for a couple of years now... well before the evil "CORPORATIONS" got involved.

[bolverk]

TodaysGandalf:  You seem to have shot yourself in the foot by jumping into the fray without a firm grasp on the concept of mining.  Quite frankly, there was *no* business case for mining when you jumped in, the capital and energy costs were too high to begin a new operation.

Hell, I wouldn't have jumped into myself, but Mt Gox actually made it feasible.  By the time they drove the price in the dirt you could buy cheaper bitcoins to buy gear from Bitmain, who hadn't adjusted their pricing in response to the market.

End sum:  sometimes you just have to accept that you missed the boat and stay on the sidelines.  And, sometimes, things happen that give you an opening.  Either way, you need to be patient, and you need to know definitively what the range of parameters you can still turn a profit on, considering both global hash rate and market price.  And even then, as Mt Gox showed, things can still be a bit of a gamble.

Ultimately, take responsibility.  The "corporations" aren't the evil here, it was your own lack of planning, preparation, and knowledge.  I'm a way smaller fish that you are (in terms of hash rate), but I only risked what I could afford to lose, while timing the market to give me the best possible ROI.  I fear we're only in the beginning stages of a parabolic curve in the global hash rate, but I'll still be in the black by a slim margin if we have 20% increases every eleven days through the end of the year.

But, man, did I spend some serious hours with both code & spreadsheets just to make sure it was doable...

[mdude77]

4) Yes, I am a common man.  I am currently unemployed.  Yes, right now, 1.2TH is PUNY... when competing against PETAHASHES of corporate greed.  The last time I checked total network hashing power two weeks ago it was 14PH, today it's 37PH.  How much of that is individuals doing mining?  I doubt individuals constitute more than 2% of all that power.  We ALL have reason to bitch because it takes far more than 1.2TH get a decent return.  It PAINS ME that the common working man cannot participate in mining and make a decent return from a level of mining power he can afford.  Pool-based mining is not a necessary component of Bitcoin or any other Cryptocurrency.  Pools are a reaction to the ceaseless rise of the difficulty level beyond belief, caused by those that can afford to purchase a Hell of a lot more hashing power than 1.2TH.  Without pools we would all be seeing zero return from our miners except for the extremely rare found block.

btw, total network hashpower has not more than doubled in the last two weeks.  Else we'd be facing a huge difficulty increase, and the last increase was about 11%.

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

Two weeks ago it was about 30PH.

M

[zycamaniac]

It's just plain stupid to ask for "bonus" when you found a block when you are mining at a pool that dedicates on paying everyone exactly the same per each share they do...

Are you willing to accept LESS when you don't find a block, so that the pool can fund the bonus paid to the one that found the block?  Hummm? Don't think so...


Just go mine on your own and see if you will ever find a block.


Personally tho, I might be leaving the bitcoin mining scene soon, due to the rather crazy increase in difficulity, perhaps Scrypt rigs might be a better idea, tho it takes a long time for them to pay off..

[mdude77]

It's just plain stupid to ask for "bonus" when you found a block when you are mining at a pool that dedicates on paying everyone exactly the same per each share they do...

Are you willing to accept LESS when you don't find a block, so that the pool can fund the bonus paid to the one that found the block?  Hummm? Don't think so...


Just go mine on your own and see if you will ever find a block.


Personally tho, I might be leaving the bitcoin mining scene soon, due to the rather crazy increase in difficulity, perhaps Scrypt rigs might be a better idea, tho it takes a long time for them to pay off..

Scrypt mining is starting to tank... value of the garbage coins keeps decreasing for some reason.

M

[anth0ny]

I am frustrated at the lengths we individual miners must go to in order to compete with CORPORATIONS that only have to expend the effort it takes to wiggle their pinky finger and drop 100 million dollars on mining equipment and the datacenters in which to run them.

Yes, I am a common man.  I am currently unemployed.

If you are doing this as a hobby, I advise you to choose another hobby.  The costs of keeping your miners running will eat you alive.

I've been mining since January, 2014.  I've spent much of my life savings and credit to get seriously into mining.

Here's an idea: Instead of trying to get rich quick, get a job.

[joeofall]

hi, may i ask
how is payout at eligius work ?

[toquinho]

You get paid out once your mining contribution reaches the minimum amount, which is about 0.04BTC. You will be entered into the queue after reaching threshold and will get paid for all work done including work done between entering the queue and being paid.

[un_ordinateur]

Anything created for the good of all, which I believe Bitcoin was, can be and has been perverted by the rich and powerful.

(...)

We ALL have reason to bitch because it takes far more than 1.2TH get a decent return.  It PAINS ME that the common working man cannot participate in mining and make a decent return from a level of mining power he can afford.  Pool-based mining is not a necessary component of Bitcoin or any other Cryptocurrency.  Pools are a reaction to the ceaseless rise of the difficulty level beyond belief, caused by those that can afford to purchase a Hell of a lot more hashing power than 1.2TH.

I just want to say that mining is not intented as a way to create richeness of enable the common man to get money. Nor is it intended to get the corporations richer too. It's sole purpose is to secure the network. That the hashing power comes from the common man, or a company, does not matter. The block reward is quite high in the beginning, but will decrease fast; the block reward is not the ultimate purpose of mining.

No, all that "bitcoin" as an ideal cares, is that the network has the highest possible hashrate, so that nobody, be it an indivudual, a corporation, or a goernement, may compete against it. If corporations are willing to invests millions on mining , then good!

The bitcoin revolution, the change for the common man, will comm from the bitcoin economy, from the transactions. That is what will change things.

[OleOle]

Anything created for the good of all, which I believe Bitcoin was, can be and has been perverted by the rich and powerful.

(...)

We ALL have reason to bitch because it takes far more than 1.2TH get a decent return.  It PAINS ME that the common working man cannot participate in mining and make a decent return from a level of mining power he can afford.  Pool-based mining is not a necessary component of Bitcoin or any other Cryptocurrency.  Pools are a reaction to the ceaseless rise of the difficulty level beyond belief, caused by those that can afford to purchase a Hell of a lot more hashing power than 1.2TH.

I just want to say that mining is not intented as a way to create richeness of enable the common man to get money. Nor is it intended to get the corporations richer too. It's sole purpose is to secure the network. That the hashing power comes from the common man, or a company, does not matter. The block reward is quite high in the beginning, but will decrease fast; the block reward is not the ultimate purpose of mining.

No, all that "bitcoin" as an ideal cares, is that the network has the highest possible hashrate, so that nobody, be it an indivudual, a corporation, or a goernement, may compete against it. If corporations are willing to invests millions on mining , then good!

The bitcoin revolution, the change for the common man, will comm from the bitcoin economy, from the transactions. That is what will change things.

The rising difficulty, the corporatisation of mining, the deflationary structure of bitcoin and the ipso facto transition of bitcoin as currency to bitcoin as commodity prevent any revolution.

If there was a 'bitcoin revolution' it was last year in 2013 with the adoption by the masses, reasonable returns from mining and the price spike verses fiat.

Now, if there is any possible zeitgeist, it's in another form of crypto... and if the popularity of DOGE is anything to go by, it suggests that even crypto-currencies have to be inflationary to act as currency otherwise the greed/foresight/speculation/horde mentality transforms the currency into a commodity.

Where is Bitcoin 2.0 or 3.0 or 4.0?

Whatever that is, perhaps, is where the 'revolution' lies.

 






["Coin, Coin!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr9SuvBsw-8 ]

[raskul]

Where is Bitcoin 2.0 or 3.0 or 4.0?

Whatever that is, perhaps, is where the 'revolution' lies.

 

PoS - then we can have real purpose for those massive farms, to pay us interest to our wallets 

[zycamaniac]

It's just plain stupid to ask for "bonus" when you found a block when you are mining at a pool that dedicates on paying everyone exactly the same per each share they do...

Are you willing to accept LESS when you don't find a block, so that the pool can fund the bonus paid to the one that found the block?  Hummm? Don't think so...


Just go mine on your own and see if you will ever find a block.


Personally tho, I might be leaving the bitcoin mining scene soon, due to the rather crazy increase in difficulity, perhaps Scrypt rigs might be a better idea, tho it takes a long time for them to pay off..

Scrypt mining is starting to tank... value of the garbage coins keeps decreasing for some reason.

M

Yeah, but at least I don't get wiped out in about 3 month like bitcoin tho...  Most rigs go from definite payout to dubious payout due to the hash rate arms race...