[2018-03-06] South Africans Instructed to Pay Tax on Bitcoin

[ruthbabe]

South Africa has joined a growing list of countries that expect citizens to pay income tax on their cryptocurrency earnings.

The South African Revenue Service (SARS) released a statement today, April 6, 2018, making it clear that, even though the country does not consider cryptocurrencies legal tender, you still have to pay taxes on the gains.

That means that anyone who is paid for goods or services in bitcoin must declare that just as they would ordinary income. Also, traders who make money buying cryptocurrencies at a low and selling at a high will have to pay capital gains on any profits. Further, anyone who mines cryptocurrencies will have to pay taxes on the money they make as well.

More here, https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/south-africans-instructed-pay-tax-bitcoin-and-cryptocurrency-earnings/

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[Kakmakr]

Why is this news? Everyone knows that you have to declare all income to the tax authorities, no matter what income it is. If you do not declare the income and they audit you, then you will pay penalties or you will be thrown in jail.

A lot of people seem to think that the lack of regulation, give them a reason not to declare their Bitcoin income and they are very wrong. You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

[ruthbabe]

Why is this news? Everyone knows that you have to declare all income to the tax authorities, no matter what income it is. If you do not declare the income and they audit you, then you will pay penalties or you will be thrown in jail.

A lot of people seem to think that the lack of regulation, give them a reason not to declare their Bitcoin income and they are very wrong. You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

I think it all depends on countries that you live on. In my country, cryptocurrencies, and bitcoin usage are allowed and we have Bitcoin ATMs here...and even if we convert Bitcoins to fiat, however big it would be the government don't tax it... more so to retired individuals.

[1Referee]

In my country, cryptocurrencies, and bitcoin usage are allowed and we have Bitcoin ATMs here...and even if we convert Bitcoins to fiat, however big it would be the government don't tax it... more so to retired individuals.

So let's say you buy Bitcoin at $7000 to later on sell it for fiat at $10,000, you don't have to pay one single penny in tax? I highly doubt that.

I can spend my Bitcoins in order to get rid of my tax liabilities (as long as it is before every first of January), and it's all legal, but that doesn't apply to anything related to fiat. As soon as you start dealing with fiat, you are subject to a whole variety of regulations that only work out in your disadvantage. I find it hard to believe that there is a government not taxing Bitcoin in that way, especially when you sell for a higher price.

You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

You heard that peeps, feed the elite!

[Carlton Banks]

The South African Revenue Service (SARS) released a statement today, April 6, 2018, making it clear that, even though the country does not consider cryptocurrencies legal tender, you still have to pay taxes on the gains.

Oh noes, real capitalism is accessible to the serfs! Only show's exactly how desperate the South African regime has become, they want people to pay income tax on something that isn't money. Why not just get everyone to pay income tax on every other good that's gaining price too, no goods would be increasing in price if the central bank wasn't printing away everyone's purchasing power. Shoelaces, hats, pots, glass bottles, cookie jars; all are subject to income tax on any annual realised gains!

Why is this news? Everyone knows that you have to declare all income to the tax authorities, no matter what income it is. If you do not declare the income and they audit you, then you will pay penalties or you will be thrown in jail.

Not on assets you haven't even sold yet.

Think logically: if all profitable assets must be sold once every year to pay the taxable gains to the taxman, then all property owners and mortgage holders must find a buyer for their house once a year, sell it, pay the gains to the taxman, then somehow buy back THEIR OWN HOUSE without enough money to do so. This contradicts basic property rights.

A lot of people seem to think that the lack of regulation, give them a reason not to declare their Bitcoin income and they are very wrong. You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

I'd pay, if I knew the money wasn't paying off ponzi style debt schemes that the central banksters created to control citizens & governments. You pay if you want to, but please, keep your eyes on the ground, where they belong. Shame on you.

[qwertyup23]

The government of Africa has the sole prerogative of implementing laws in relevance with taxation into cryptocurrencies. Although different countries may have unique laws to cryptocurrencies, taxing something that generates income to individuals should be a mandatory. This is to be expected as bitcoin has already served as a gateway into earning alternative income. In the following years, I guess that countries may soon start to tax income generated from cryptocurrencies, even if it is not subject to legal tender. Due to this regulation, expect prices to decrease at some point in the market.

In my country, cryptocurrencies, and bitcoin usage are allowed and we have Bitcoin ATMs here...and even if we convert Bitcoins to fiat, however big it would be the government don't tax it... more so to retired individuals.

So let's say you buy Bitcoin at $7000 to later on sell it for fiat at $10,000, you don't have to pay one single penny in tax? I highly doubt that.

I can spend my Bitcoins in order to get rid of my tax liabilities (as long as it is before every first of January), and it's all legal, but that doesn't apply to anything related to fiat. As soon as you start dealing with fiat, you are subject to a whole variety of regulations that only work out in your disadvantage. I find it hard to believe that there is a government not taxing Bitcoin in that way, especially when you sell for a higher price.

You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

You heard that peeps, feed the elite!

I guess we live in the same country as our government stated that bitcoin is not to be subject of legal tender. Fortunately, we have a wallet provider that lets convert our bitcoin to fiat through an ATM and we can withdraw our converted resource without paying any tax. Our central bank issued a statement regarding cryptocurrencies since they view it as something that is not a threat YET but they are considering in implementing laws in the future regarding its taxation. Maybe because that only a relatively small number of individuals are using bitcoin in our country- which is why they choose to ignore it.

[ruthbabe]

In my country, cryptocurrencies, and bitcoin usage are allowed and we have Bitcoin ATMs here...and even if we convert Bitcoins to fiat, however big it would be the government don't tax it... more so to retired individuals.

So let's say you buy Bitcoin at $7000 to later on sell it for fiat at $10,000, you don't have to pay one single penny in tax? I highly doubt that.

I can spend my Bitcoins in order to get rid of my tax liabilities (as long as it is before every first of January), and it's all legal, but that doesn't apply to anything related to fiat. As soon as you start dealing with fiat, you are subject to a whole variety of regulations that only work out in your disadvantage. I find it hard to believe that there is a government not taxing Bitcoin in that way, especially when you sell for a higher price.

You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

You heard that peeps, feed the elite!

Yes, I didn't pay a single cent tax. Just this 1st week I withdraw from my coins.ph* wallet a small amount of BTC worth 120,787.66 Php (2,304.23USD) they just charge me fees but not tax.


*Coins.ph is a mobile wallet where Filipinos make online payments, load beep™ cards, and buy bitcoin. Available on web, Android, and iOS.

~snip~

You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

Maybe in your country but not here in the Philippines and other countries as well, as there are many countries that don't tax Bitcoin and other cryptos and you can simply google it.

[audaciousbeing]

South Africa has joined a growing list of countries that expect citizens to pay income tax on their cryptocurrency earnings.

The South African Revenue Service (SARS) released a statement today, April 6, 2018, making it clear that, even though the country does not consider cryptocurrencies legal tender, you still have to pay taxes on the gains.

That means that anyone who is paid for goods or services in bitcoin must declare that just as they would ordinary income. Also, traders who make money buying cryptocurrencies at a low and selling at a high will have to pay capital gains on any profits. Further, anyone who mines cryptocurrencies will have to pay taxes on the money they make as well.

More here, https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/south-africans-instructed-pay-tax-bitcoin-and-cryptocurrency-earnings/

This a good one coming from that part of the world and I like their strategy which is 'they don't want to lose on both sides at the moment' so they try to make more money by pushing the responsibility to the tax payer to ensure he files his returns or face the penalty for not doing so even though they know that there is no way they can prove that without spending more money than what they intend to generate from such exercise. What I see here is a temporary policy as they are putting this in place until they are able to figure out what they would do and the Capital Gains tax part is the most encouraging one while they put the VAT portion on hold. Countries like this should be encouraged because they are open minded and want to see how they would benefit from this rather than going the way of those that just wake up one day and the only solution they can think of is imposing ban on the use of crypto currency.

[Carlton Banks]

Why don't you taxpayers just give up 100% of your BTC to the government? The government will feed you, pay your rent, give you their special government information and entertainment TV service, and provide you with their toy money so you can buy toys with it?

If BTC ever becomes subject to total confiscation, I fully expect you all to simply hand it all over. So you may as well get it over with, and hand it all over now, hopefully the government will sell it openly to someone who's got the self-respect to keep things that belong to them. Satoshi wasted his time creating a paradigm shifting technology if you're all just going to stoop and bow to the old paradigm. You're not fit to be an owner of BTC, by definition.

You've already told the government:

• Who you are
• Where you live
• How much cryptocurrency you have
• That you'll do whatever they say

Why wouldn't they come back for the rest, when it threatens their existence and you've made yourself such an easy target?

So please, do the other Bitcoin hodlers a favour, and just give up all your BTC, right now. You're going to do it anyway, so why even bother pretending you're going to defend it?

[1Referee]

Yes, I didn't pay a single cent tax. Just this 1st week I withdraw from my coins.ph* wallet a small amount of BTC worth 120,787.66 Php (2,304.23USD) they just charge me fees but not tax.

*Coins.ph is a mobile wallet where Filipinos make online payments, load beep™ cards, and buy bitcoin. Available on web, Android, and iOS.

How is coins.ph supposed to charge you tax? It's not whatever service charging tax, but your government, wich happens after you declare your activities.

I too can buy and sell as many coins as I wish without paying one single penny in tax, but that doesn't take away that legally, I have to declare everything (mainly the gains at the time of selling for fiat), and pay tax afterwards.

Maybe in your country but not here in the Philippines and other countries as well, as there are many countries that don't tax Bitcoin and other cryptos and you can simply google it.

I Google'd it, and it turns out that the Philippines are subject to tax on crypto, just like anything else.

[ruthbabe]

Yes, I didn't pay a single cent tax. Just this 1st week I withdraw from my coins.ph* wallet a small amount of BTC worth 120,787.66 Php (2,304.23USD) they just charge me fees but not tax.

*Coins.ph is a mobile wallet where Filipinos make online payments, load beep™ cards, and buy bitcoin. Available on web, Android, and iOS.

How is coins.ph supposed to charge you tax? It's not whatever service charging tax, but your government, wich happens after you declare your activities.

I too can buy and sell as many coins as I wish without paying one single penny in tax, but that doesn't take away that legally, I have to declare everything (mainly the gains at the time of selling for fiat), and pay tax afterwards.

Maybe in your country but not here in the Philippines and other countries as well, as there are many countries that don't tax Bitcoin and other cryptos and you can simply google it.

I Google'd it, and it turns out that the Philippines are subject to tax on crypto, just like anything else.

I am sorry, but you didn't put your source, so it's probably not true. Presently, there is no new regulations issued by the Philippine Bureau of Internal Revenue (BIR), or even the Banko Sentral ng Pilipinas (central bank of the Republic of the Philippines) relative to taxing cryptocurrencies. I can say it because I live here in the Philippines.

Let me quote a portion of a business news published on February 26, 2018, 10:00 PM, "In the Philippines, it is not clear yet if the bitcoin will be treated as any other stocks subject to percentage tax or property subject to ordinary tax or capital gains tax by the Bureau of Internal Revenue."  https://business.mb.com.ph/2018/02/26/cryptocurrency-the-tax-risks/

[1Referee]

I am sorry, but you didn't put your source, so it's probably not true. Presently, there is no new regulations issued by the Philippine Bureau of Internal Revenue (BIR), or even the Banko Sentral ng Pilipinas (central bank of the Republic of the Philippines) relative to taxing cryptocurrencies. I can say it because I live here in the Philippines.

Let me quote a portion of a business news published on February 26, 2018, 10:00 PM, "In the Philippines, it is not clear yet if the bitcoin will be treated as any other stocks subject to percentage tax or property subject to ordinary tax or capital gains tax by the Bureau of Internal Revenue." -snip-

You are living in a country you don't know the rules of. Instead of reading news articles, dive into how your tax laws are set up.

If you don't understand that the lack of classification of Bitcoin, or basically any other value tool, doesn't make you exempt from tax, I don't know what will make you understand that.

[Theb]

Maybe in your country but not here in the Philippines and other countries as well, as there are many countries that don't tax Bitcoin and other cryptos and you can simply google it.

I Google'd it, and it turns out that the Philippines are subject to tax on crypto, just like anything else.

I am from the Philippines and I could say what ruthbabe is saying is not true and I do think that he does not know what he is talking about. If cryptocurrency earners are exempted from paying income taxes then all of our business establishments would only accept Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies as a mode of payment and not the Philippine Peso itself. Coins.ph is only a mere wallet, even though you have the ability to access your account without going to the taxing bureau you are still liable to pay taxes, that is also why they have account limits and verification process as they are giving your info to the government, you are just maybe earning small amounts of BTC that is why you are on their radar yet.

[stompix]

Yes, I didn't pay a single cent tax. Just this 1st week I withdraw from my coins.ph* wallet a small amount of BTC worth 120,787.66 Php (2,304.23USD) they just charge me fees but not tax.

*Coins.ph is a mobile wallet where Filipinos make online payments, load beep™ cards, and buy bitcoin. Available on web, Android, and iOS.

How is coins.ph supposed to charge you tax? It's not whatever service charging tax, but your government, wich happens after you declare your activities.

I too can buy and sell as many coins as I wish without paying one single penny in tax, but that doesn't take away that legally, I have to declare everything (mainly the gains at the time of selling for fiat), and pay tax afterwards.

Maybe in your country but not here in the Philippines and other countries as well, as there are many countries that don't tax Bitcoin and other cryptos and you can simply google it.

I Google'd it, and it turns out that the Philippines are subject to tax on crypto, just like anything else.

I am sorry, but you didn't put your source, so it's probably not true. Presently, there is no new regulations issued by the Philippine Bureau of Internal Revenue (BIR), or even the Banko Sentral ng Pilipinas (central bank of the Republic of the Philippines) relative to taxing cryptocurrencies. I can say it because I live here in the Philippines.

Let me quote a portion of a business news published on February 26, 2018, 10:00 PM, "In the Philippines, it is not clear yet if the bitcoin will be treated as any other stocks subject to percentage tax or property subject to ordinary tax or capital gains tax by the Bureau of Internal Revenue."  https://business.mb.com.ph/2018/02/26/cryptocurrency-the-tax-risks/

How about this?

The Philippine Bureau of Internal Revenue (BIR) has not yet issued clear guidelines on the tax treatment of bitcoin transactions. However, it is clearly written in the internal revenue laws that any type of income earned by a Filipino citizen shall be taxed unless expressly exempted.

https://cryptocurrencynews.ph/2017/12/04/are-bitcoin-transactions-taxable-in-the-philippines/

You probably for sure don't understand what taxation is and your example with coins.ph is clear.
You made money, be it from bitcoins, apples, pigs, socks, drugs   , you have to pay tax on income.
I don't know a single country that doesn't have this rule.

Why is this news? Everyone knows that you have to declare all income to the tax authorities, no matter what income it is. If you do not declare the income and they audit you, then you will pay penalties or you will be thrown in jail.

It is news because we need a good laugh sometimes.
SA which is lately trying in vain to tackle tax evasion is expecting its citizen to pay tax on bitcoin earnings.
Not working in the US,  who the f word believes it will work in SA?

[richardsNY]

If you don't understand that the lack of classification of Bitcoin, or basically any other value tool, doesn't make you exempt from tax, I don't know what will make you understand that.

Ignore OP. He's one of the many people believing they can escape from taxation because governments don't explicitly state Bitcoin by name. And then we have the people believing that as long as Bitcoin isn't legalized, they also don't have to pay tax. It boggles my mind that people aren't aware of how the regular economy works, or they on purposely have never declared any tax themselves and for that reason don't know how taxation works. Obviously, there are differences from country to country, but not in such a way that will allow you to not pay tax on your short and long term gains. If that was the case, the Philippines would become a tax paradise for everyone pushing high crypto volumes.

[orions.belt19]

In my country, cryptocurrencies, and bitcoin usage are allowed and we have Bitcoin ATMs here...and even if we convert Bitcoins to fiat, however big it would be the government don't tax it... more so to retired individuals.

So let's say you buy Bitcoin at $7000 to later on sell it for fiat at $10,000, you don't have to pay one single penny in tax? I highly doubt that.

I can spend my Bitcoins in order to get rid of my tax liabilities (as long as it is before every first of January), and it's all legal, but that doesn't apply to anything related to fiat. As soon as you start dealing with fiat, you are subject to a whole variety of regulations that only work out in your disadvantage. I find it hard to believe that there is a government not taxing Bitcoin in that way, especially when you sell for a higher price.

You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

You heard that peeps, feed the elite!

Yes, I didn't pay a single cent tax. Just this 1st week I withdraw from my coins.ph* wallet a small amount of BTC worth 120,787.66 Php (2,304.23USD) they just charge me fees but not tax.


*Coins.ph is a mobile wallet where Filipinos make online payments, load beep™ cards, and buy bitcoin. Available on web, Android, and iOS.

~snip~

You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

Maybe in your country but not here in the Philippines and other countries as well, as there are many countries that don't tax Bitcoin and other cryptos and you can simply google it.

Yes, it may be true that the Philippines do not tax Bitcoin nor do they have any regulation over it but that differs from income tax.what you have cited as an example is a simple transaction of sale - from BTC to PHP and the fees go to the service provider (coins.ph).  See, in income tax you would have to declare it no matter what form of currency or legal tender you earn from. May it be in the form of fiat or bitcoins, you would have to declare it and there will be a corresponding tax for that.

South Africa may not have explicit regulations yet on bitcoin but that does not exempt its citizens from having to pay their taxes. The same should go with other countries.

[ruthbabe]

In my country, cryptocurrencies, and bitcoin usage are allowed and we have Bitcoin ATMs here...and even if we convert Bitcoins to fiat, however big it would be the government don't tax it... more so to retired individuals.

So let's say you buy Bitcoin at $7000 to later on sell it for fiat at $10,000, you don't have to pay one single penny in tax? I highly doubt that.

I can spend my Bitcoins in order to get rid of my tax liabilities (as long as it is before every first of January), and it's all legal, but that doesn't apply to anything related to fiat. As soon as you start dealing with fiat, you are subject to a whole variety of regulations that only work out in your disadvantage. I find it hard to believe that there is a government not taxing Bitcoin in that way, especially when you sell for a higher price.

You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

You heard that peeps, feed the elite!

Yes, I didn't pay a single cent tax. Just this 1st week I withdraw from my coins.ph* wallet a small amount of BTC worth 120,787.66 Php (2,304.23USD) they just charge me fees but not tax.


*Coins.ph is a mobile wallet where Filipinos make online payments, load beep™ cards, and buy bitcoin. Available on web, Android, and iOS.

~snip~

You have to report ALL income to the tax man!

Maybe in your country but not here in the Philippines and other countries as well, as there are many countries that don't tax Bitcoin and other cryptos and you can simply google it.

~Snip

See, in income tax you would have to declare it no matter what form of currency or legal tender you earn from. May it be in the form of fiat or bitcoins, you would have to declare it and there will be a corresponding tax for that.

~Snip

Since you generalized it, so, do you think individuals in the Philippines file their income tax honestly? Do they declare all their incomes? What about the senior citizens, retirees or pensioners trading bitcoins or have some sort of income other than the pension, are they required to file income tax too? Also, there are lots of government officials and politicians (national, local down to barangay level) who are over 60's, and there were also retired generals and other police/military men who are senior citizens too and currently serving the government who are receiving over hundred thousand pensions per month, and still receiving pay and allowances from the government, are they required to file income tax? If affirmative, show proof!

[stompix]

Since you generalized it, so, do you think individuals in the Philippines file their income tax honestly? Do they declare all their incomes? What about the senior citizens, retirees or pensioners trading bitcoins or have some sort of income other than the pension, are they required to file income tax too? Also, there are lots of government officials and politicians (national, local down to barangay level) who are over 60's, and there were also retired generals and other police/military men who are senior citizens too and currently serving the government who are receiving over hundred thousand pensions per month, and still receiving pay and allowances from the government, are they required to file income tax? If affirmative, show proof!

Two wrongs don't make a right

Just because somebody is not paying taxes it doesn't mean you shouldn't also.
As long as this is the law, you're going to have to obey it, you don't like it, try and change it!!!

Also, I have some bad news for you, knowing how justice and law work in 3rd wold country, it's guys like you that are going to be caught doing tax evasion, not higherups in the government, it's the small guys with a few hundred $ that always end up in the net.

But no problem, you can act all high and mighty here and defy them, on an anonymous forum everybody is part of the X-men, in reality, 99% will piss their pants if they hear somebody shouting "Police" at their door.

[Carlton Banks]

Two wrongs don't make a right

Just because somebody is not paying taxes it doesn't mean you shouldn't also.
As long as this is the law, you're going to have to obey it, you don't like it, try and change it!!!

Also, I have some bad news for you, knowing how justice and law work in 3rd wold country, it's guys like you that are going to be caught doing tax evasion, not higherups in the government, it's the small guys with a few hundred $ that always end up in the net.

But no problem, you can act all high and mighty here and defy them, on an anonymous forum everybody is part of the X-men, in reality, 99% will piss their pants if they hear somebody shouting "Police" at their door.

Tax is wrong, so ruthbabe may be a little hazy on the details of the written law, but morally, not paying is the right thing to do. Taxes were always stealing, they've been normalised because of government propaganda that one is paying for services (the reality is you are paying-decades old debt) and overwhelming force (i.e. police violence) simply takes what is due, or kidnaps the transgressor.

Bitcoin is a change as big to preventing tax theft as Bittorrent was to copyright: everyone has copyright now, so the concept is meaningless. And when everyone has Bitcoin, they will slowly begin to refuse to pay taxes. It's impossible to take Bitcoin with force: Bitcoin is resistant to violence, there's nothing that can be done to force you to pay BTC to anyone

I'm happy to pay for what I use, with the money going directly to the person I'm paying. There's no reason why I have to pay the government, so that they pay old unpaid bills then borrow money to pay for the actual service I need. I'm not paying off 60-70 year old government debts so that people 100 years in the future can pay for the government services I was using today. That's one bullshit unethical theft based system, and you've got no business telling other people what they must and must not do with their own BTC, pay the extortion charges levied against you if you choose (lest you piss your pants in fear, of course)

[stompix]

Tax is wrong, <in your opinion> so ruthbabe may be a little hazy on the details of the written law, but morally, not paying is the right thing to do. Taxes were always stealing, they've been normalised because of government propaganda that one is paying for services (the reality is you are paying-decades old debt) and overwhelming force (i.e. police violence) simply takes what is due, or kidnaps the transgressor.

Bitcoin is a change as big to preventing tax theft as Bittorrent was to copyright: everyone has copyright now, so the concept is meaningless. And when everyone has Bitcoin, they will slowly begin to refuse to pay taxes. It's impossible to take Bitcoin with force: Bitcoin is resistant to violence, there's nothing that can be done to force you to pay BTC to anyone

I'm happy to pay for what I use, with the money going directly to the person I'm paying. There's no reason why I have to pay the government, so that they pay old unpaid bills then borrow money to pay for the actual service I need. I'm not paying off 60-70 year old government debts so that people 100 years in the future can pay for the government services I was using today. That's one bullshit unethical theft based system, and you've got no business telling other people what they must and must not do with their own BTC, pay the extortion charges levied against you if you choose (lest you piss your pants in fear, of course)

As I added to your post, tax is wrong in your opinion.
And currently, all over the world, your opinion is not the opinion of the majority, otherwise, the tax system would have been abolished, but I've yet to see even a call for a referendum in a 1st or 2nd world country that would attract interest.

So, everything you said, it might be right from your point of view, it might be really right and I'm totally wrong, but until you change the law, you have to pay those taxes., simple as that.
I consider a lot of laws stupid, but I'm not going to break them.

Oh, and you just proved to me how wrong this whole freedom of speech is.

and you've got no business telling other people what they must and must not do with their own BTC,

Really, I have no right to an opinion?
I never forced him at gunpoint to pay his taxes, nor do I plan on to do it, but I have no right to express my opinion on it? And you're arguing about the government imposing things on people...

It's impossible to take Bitcoin with force: Bitcoin is resistant to violence, there's nothing that can be done to force you to pay BTC to anyone

Never expected you to say this....really?
Probably all the coins that get seized by the police all over the world are fake ...