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Author Topic: Solution to lost wallets  (Read 322 times)
budismile
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June 05, 2018, 07:33:59 AM
 #21

This is not a proposal of forking network!
By timestamping first wallet transaction with real time date/hour/seconds into ledger history, bitcoin core software nodes can make an agreement that if, for example:
during the next 2 years the wallet's public address that was timestamped do not output any Tx, bitcoin nodes take those funds and place them into next block header.
If a public address will make a new output tx with any amount of tokens will be re-stamped with date that was realized the last tx.
If the public address won't put a minimum of 1 transaction in 2 years, those funds from public address will be moved into next block of transactions.
I know it sounds easy. But to translate into coding, it is very hard to accomplish.
In bitcoin is harder to be implemented due to multi-sig public keys .
I cannot see another solution to this problem, which can become very important in far future.
I would call this process (Proof of owner's wallet)


Which is my question is why every time the transaction will come quickly if the Gas or the pay is raised?
is not the blockchain script supposed to be standard?

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June 05, 2018, 08:05:53 AM
 #22

Timestamp can literally be any time margins to make an output, even if u put timestamp between 1 year and 100 years is fine for network, assuming that we do not live more then 100 years from now, at least network gain back their lost bitcoins.
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June 06, 2018, 10:39:05 AM
 #23

This is not a proposal of forking network!
By timestamping first wallet transaction with real time date/hour/seconds into ledger history, bitcoin core software nodes can make an agreement that if, for example:
during the next 2 years the wallet's public address that was timestamped do not output any Tx, bitcoin nodes take those funds and place them into next block header.
If a public address will make a new output tx with any amount of tokens will be re-stamped with date that was realized the last tx.
If the public address won't put a minimum of 1 transaction in 2 years, those funds from public address will be moved into next block of transactions.
I know it sounds easy. But to translate into coding, it is very hard to accomplish.
In bitcoin is harder to be implemented due to multi-sig public keys .
I cannot see another solution to this problem, which can become very important in far future.
I would call this process (Proof of owner's wallet)
As interesting as it may be to bring lost coins back into circulation, there is no real way to proof that the key for an address has been lost.
Two years are way too short; for example, I have coins in cold storage which are much older, and I don't plan to move them in the next two years.
Also, what happens in case you are unable to access your funds just because you can't? Imagine you have a really bad accident and are in coma for two years: you wake up and all your money is gone.

If you want to keep using the age of coins, better consider something like 100 years instead. However, even that might be a very bad idea: assume there is an address with 100BTC which is really lost. Based on your proposal, in 100 years those 100BTC would come back into circulation and some miner would be very happy; but, at that point the network most likely has gone to a level where single Satoshis are the normal amount and worth maybe $1-$10 each. Now you drop 100BTC what will crash the price and effectively make all BTC users have less.

If there is a point where Satoshis are getting too expensive, the better idea is to just add more decimals and create eg Minitoshis, Microtoshis or Nanotoshis.

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June 06, 2018, 02:10:21 PM
 #24

Yeah, timeframe 2 years was just used as an example, it can be 100 years and it will be healthy for network. Supposing that someone 100 years old will have enough time to make 1 single transaction output on those funds to reset timestamp. Even if the algo will be written after last 1 satoshi will be mined to take in place the timestamping. And move those funds back into circulation.
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June 06, 2018, 02:32:11 PM
 #25

Timestamp can literally be any time margins to make an output, even if u put timestamp between 1 year and 100 years is fine for network, assuming that we do not live more then 100 years from now, at least network gain back their lost bitcoins.

if YOU are so worried about the "network" and it not losing YOUR coins then there is a simple solution for it without needing to change anything about bitcoin.

use timelock.

current block height is 526297 you want us to spend your coins after you die in X years then right now create a transaction and send your coins as a donation and in that transaction set the timelock to:
526297 + (X years * 365 days * 144 blocks/day)
for example if you have 1 year in mind then you set it to 578857

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June 06, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
 #26

print only enough enough the minh chứng
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June 06, 2018, 03:36:30 PM
 #27

No No No, if this was implemented, then Satoshi's coins would have gone to the miners < about 1 million coins > and all the burnt coins would come back into circulation.  Roll Eyes All lost coins are beneficial to the other people who use this technology, because it decrease the coins in circulation and also in theory the total supply of coins. A decline in supply, will increase the price of the available coins. 

If you could tweak this proposal and change the output to a secondary address that you own, then this might work. You might have lost the private key to your primary address, but you might still have access to the private key of the secondary address. <fail safe>

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June 06, 2018, 04:11:25 PM
 #28

Sounds interesting  Means that the wallet information will still be available no matter how long it takes, makes things a little easier for the consumers as there will be a back up, the question however is where will you get the block information from  so as to regenerate the information over the blockchain over a period of time
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June 06, 2018, 06:17:42 PM
 #29

Yeah, timeframe 2 years was just used as an example, it can be 100 years and it will be healthy for network. Supposing that someone 100 years old will have enough time to make 1 single transaction output on those funds to reset timestamp. Even if the algo will be written after last 1 satoshi will be mined to take in place the timestamping. And move those funds back into circulation.
Congratulations for conveniently ignoring my other arguments.

Again, dropping hundreds or thousands of BTC into a system where people deal with millionth fractions of a single BTC can easily cause an inflation. That's similar to what irresponsible countries do when debts go through the roof: print money. We've seen those results more than enough times; it never works.

Just forget what you consider lost. What you think is lost might be someone else's long-term investment.

Also, your proposal is not free for users. They are forced to either pay a transaction/keep-alive fee, or loose their money. And we have seen fees that were higher than the actual transaction amount.

Lost coins are no issue because remaining coins can be split infinitely. You are beating a dead horse.


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June 07, 2018, 11:29:34 PM
 #30

@Bitsky,
You mean arguments like people cannot use their private key because they simply can't do it?
If in 100 years a wallet cannot make an output transaction u think after 100 years he remember where he wrotte his privatekey?
@Kakmakr
What makes u think bitcoin developers that invented bitcoin cannot make an output Tx from their early mined wallets?
The rest who wannabe just like those people that find a problem to any solution , well, be my guest!
I can bet this solution will be implemented in bitcoin core, maybe not in the next upgrade of core. But a similar solution will be implemented. It needs only majority of nodes and miners to implement it.
I would not be surprised to be implemented in other alt coins first.
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June 07, 2018, 11:35:56 PM
 #31

You will loss your coins just because of your negligence, a proper way of backing up your wallet just to securely store your recovery keys and if you even can't do it just print out paper wallet and put it in bank locker with some insurance for sure.

12 word backup phrase is not that long to take care of, you can even remember it on your mind so that you don't have to write it down or keep securely... Grin

Lots of early investors haven't moved coins for many years even though they have access to those address, so your idea doesn't make sense on that ground.

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June 08, 2018, 12:12:46 AM
 #32

In fact i have a better ideea, why cannot i ask bitcoin devs themselves? I mean those who bring us bitcoin blockchain technology in our lifes!
I am sure they read this forum, hopefully they read this post too.
Send me 10 satoshi from genesis block #1  from this public address 12c6DSiU4Rq3P4ZxziKxzrL5LmMBrzjrJX
 to my address 17Ub7BBzAieXmFXunPcY9iu5jBGUFJzN7e
You can leave a message if you agree with solution anti-lost wallet.
I guess they can send bitcoin from peer to peer anonymously without need to reveal their identity.
A message would worth more then 10 satoshi's.
Hope they find a solution to hide queries.
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June 08, 2018, 01:01:43 AM
 #33

I think if you lost wallet is already lost money. You cannot recover it anymore. So always keep in your mind the save you wallet key is is better if  you will print also. A lot of people now they cannot recover wallet because the lost private key and they dont know no more chance to recover it.


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June 08, 2018, 01:18:39 AM
 #34

The problem is that if more will lose wallets and bitcoins, network itself will suffer, now you do not feel lost bitcoins because demand is low. When demand will increase in 50 years, then all those 4mil coins will matter . I do not offer a solution for owner that lost money, i offer solution for healthy of network. The owner of lost wallet have no chance to get back money, but network will keep entire coins in circulation.
Anyway i do not see bitcoin as a single global currency. So, for me personal i do not gain anything . I think even those who lost wallets will agree to let those coins return in circulation as a reward for mining blocks.
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June 08, 2018, 01:45:48 AM
 #35

With a satoshi worth a fraction of a penny, I don't think too much scarcity will be a problem. Because of the nature of its halving every x years along with growing use and loss of bitcoins, bitcoin is inherently deflationary. Depending on your perspective of economics, it may be a good thing.


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June 08, 2018, 07:40:26 PM
 #36

at this moment the thing most feared by all bitcoin members is the loss of bitcoin wallet, because many of the heker who want to steal other people's assets.this factor that many people are afraid to invest in bitcoin, to be prepared so that our bitcoin wallet is not lost is: we have to choose secured wallet, do not give the key of our wallet to others, and many other ways

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naughty1
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June 08, 2018, 08:03:07 PM
 #37

This is not a proposal of forking network!
By timestamping first wallet transaction with real time date/hour/seconds into ledger history, bitcoin core software nodes can make an agreement that if, for example:
during the next 2 years the wallet's public address that was timestamped do not output any Tx, bitcoin nodes take those funds and place them into next block header.
If a public address will make a new output tx with any amount of tokens will be re-stamped with date that was realized the last tx.
If the public address won't put a minimum of 1 transaction in 2 years, those funds from public address will be moved into next block of transactions.
I know it sounds easy. But to translate into coding, it is very hard to accomplish.
In bitcoin is harder to be implemented due to multi-sig public keys .
I cannot see another solution to this problem, which can become very important in far future.
I would call this process (Proof of owner's wallet)



I really can not understand what you are trying to explain here. It was really faint, I did not know the purpose. Am I too shallow to understand it?

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June 08, 2018, 08:10:53 PM
 #38

no, you are not allowed to touch my bitcoins. i would like to buy and hold them for hundreds of years and i don't want to move them at all and you are not allowed to force me to do otherwise. what you are doing is that you are calling my coins lost and you want to steal them from me!
Agree
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June 27, 2018, 03:52:37 PM
 #39

Here's a little advice from me Make sure you save Backups in different locations, eg on other computers, in cloud storage, on USB Flash Disk, on CD, printed on paper. Do not save a Backup on your computer or SmartPhone where your Bitcoin Wallet is installed because it will not do any good if your computer / SmartPhone is damaged / lost. Make sure Backup is Secure, not accessible to anyone other than you.
Hopefully my answer can help you.
Your solution offer securing wallets from this time to the future if users read your advice, but this won't save wallets that are already lost.
Bitsky
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June 27, 2018, 05:29:14 PM
 #40

@Bitsky,
You mean arguments like people cannot use their private key because they simply can't do it?
If in 100 years a wallet cannot make an output transaction u think after 100 years he remember where he wrotte his privatekey?
No, you want to force users to make transactions. That includes paying fees for something you don't even want to do. In essence, you suggest a "please let me keep my bitcoins" tax.
If I buy one ton of gold and bury it, do I have to prove ownership every x years? No. Will it be taken away from me? No.
If I get 1 million fiat and keep it under my bed, do I have to prove ownership every x years? No. Will it be taken away from me? No.

@Kakmakr
What makes u think bitcoin developers that invented bitcoin cannot make an output Tx from their early mined wallets?
The rest who wannabe just like those people that find a problem to any solution , well, be my guest!
I can bet this solution will be implemented in bitcoin core, maybe not in the next upgrade of core. But a similar solution will be implemented. It needs only majority of nodes and miners to implement it.
I would not be surprised to be implemented in other alt coins first.
It will not be implemented, simply because people understand that what you suggest boils down to expropriation and control over your money by a 3rd party. Bitcoin was created to make exactly that impossible.

The problem is that if more will lose wallets and bitcoins, network itself will suffer, now you do not feel lost bitcoins because demand is low. When demand will increase in 50 years, then all those 4mil coins will matter . I do not offer a solution for owner that lost money, i offer solution for healthy of network. The owner of lost wallet have no chance to get back money, but network will keep entire coins in circulation.
Anyway i do not see bitcoin as a single global currency. So, for me personal i do not gain anything . I think even those who lost wallets will agree to let those coins return in circulation as a reward for mining blocks.
Wrong, because if demand at some point will be so high that single Satoshis are worth hundreds of dollars, devs can simply add more decimals and split Satoshis. And if you don't think that's possible, look at the stock market where it is pretty common to split and join stocks to make them better trade-able again.


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