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Author Topic: New Ledger native desktop app to be released on July 9th, 2018  (Read 397 times)
bob123
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September 06, 2018, 10:28:53 AM
 #41

I did not have the need to install Ledger Live so far, but now I am surprised that Windows 7&8 are not supported, it is really an unpleasant surprise for me. I really do not understand decision of Ledger regarding this, there is so many users who still use older versions of OS. What is the reason for this, and is there any way around to use Ledger Live in Windows 7 maybe?

Probably because using an outdated OS (with all the vulnerabilities and unpatched exploits available) causes too much security risks to support it when marketing a secure product.

It is definitely advised to NOT use it anymore. Especially if your computer contains sensitive or valuable information.

Windows 10 was available for free for quite some time now. They have even extended the free-upgrade-timeframe multiple times.

And it seems that currently (even tho stated that a free upgrade is no longer possible) if you download the official windows media creation tool, you'll be able to upgrade to windows 10 for free.
If you have a valid product key, it will stay valid in windows 10.

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September 06, 2018, 12:30:34 PM
 #42

I did not have the need to install Ledger Live so far, but now I am surprised that Windows 7&8 are not supported, it is really an unpleasant surprise for me. I really do not understand decision of Ledger regarding this, there is so many users who still use older versions of OS. What is the reason for this, and is there any way around to use Ledger Live in Windows 7 maybe?
Microsoft has stopped providing support for Windows 7 for a few years now. While Windows 8 doens't have mainstream support but still do have extended support. I don't think it's wise to play around with money in a "outdated" OS. Why don't you just update it to Windows 10?

It is not true that Microsoft is stopped support for Windows 7, this support will be end in January 14, 2020 .



Probably because using an outdated OS (with all the vulnerabilities and unpatched exploits available) causes too much security risks to support it when marketing a secure product.

It is definitely advised to NOT use it anymore. Especially if your computer contains sensitive or valuable information.

Windows 10 was available for free for quite some time now. They have even extended the free-upgrade-timeframe multiple times.

And it seems that currently (even tho stated that a free upgrade is no longer possible) if you download the official windows media creation tool, you'll be able to upgrade to windows 10 for free.
If you have a valid product key, it will stay valid in windows 10.


I just do not like Windows 10, especially because that OS is collects a large amount of data from users - most of that can be manually adjusted, but this is just one big spy software. Therefore I consider older OS much more user friendly when it comes to privacy.

Since here is a case about hardware wallet and such wallet should be safe for using even in infected device I do not see why Ledger give users only Windows 10 as option... Windows 7 is not outdated, there are still updates and it is safe OS - and Ledger Live is only UI, how can I be vulnerable if using Ledger on Windows 7 (with good AV+Firewall+Antimalware) ?


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September 06, 2018, 12:45:39 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (2)
 #43

I just do not like Windows 10, especially because that OS is collects a large amount of data from users - most of that can be manually adjusted, but this is just one big spy software.

Most data collection can be turned off (even though not everything through the GUI settings, registry entries required).
But i understand your concern. Then why don't you switch to linux ? There are a lot of distro's which are easily understandable by windows user.



Therefore I consider older OS much more user friendly when it comes to privacy.

That's wrong to assume. The only thing you get with an older OS is worse performance and more vulnerabilities.



Since here is a case about hardware wallet and such wallet should be safe for using even in infected device I do not see why Ledger give users only Windows 10 as option... Windows 7 is not outdated, there are still updates and it is safe OS

Sure, you CAN use a hardware wallet on an infected PC. But most user can't properly use a PC. And human error will result in threads calling ledger scammy and buggy.
Windows 7 should be regarded outdated. A lot of vulnerabilities aren't being fixed by microsoft. Only the most dangerous ones are.
You are risking all sensitive information on your machine (not the seed of your hardware wallet) when using windows 7.

Calling an OS 'safe' is tough.. It is not the OS which makes a system secure. It is the whole setup, the network, user habits, etc.. The OS is just a small part of a safe/secure system.
And windows is - by far - the least secured OS around..
Without any advanced mechanisms.. your windows machine will be compromised very fast.. A linux machine most probably won't. 



and Ledger Live is only UI, how can I be vulnerable if using Ledger on Windows 7 (with good AV+Firewall+Antimalware) ?

Your nano s itself won't be vulnerable.

But it is way easier to compromise your machine and try(!) to manipulate the ledger live software. And in case of you not double checking the tx details on your nano s, someone could slip you his address to send the funds to.
If this was to happen, the first one to be accused is ledger..

I understand their approach. People should ALWAYS use up-to-date software.
IMO old OS's shouldn't be supported at all.. by no company/developer.

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September 06, 2018, 12:54:45 PM
 #44

Windows 10 is an absolute shit-show in terms of privacy. It tracks pretty much everything you do and calls home to Microsoft constantly, even if you turn all the privacy settings to maximum. And don't even get me started on Cortana. I was given a Windows 10 laptop for work - spent pretty much an entire day tweaking and disabling things in the Group Policy Editor and Regedit before I was happy to even put my email address in it. I certainly wouldn't use it for anything to do with crypto.

I've used Ledger Live's monitoring feature on Windows 7 (64 bit) and it worked just fine - I wasn't even aware their requirements said it must be Windows 10. I would second bob123's point about Linux being a better choice, however.


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bitmover
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September 06, 2018, 01:09:30 PM
 #45

Big coincidence, we are having 2 discussions regarding OS and ledger nano.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5016110.0

I did not have the need to install Ledger Live so far, but now I am surprised that Windows 7&8 are not supported, it is really an unpleasant surprise for me. I really do not understand decision of Ledger regarding this, there is so many users who still use older versions of OS. What is the reason for this, and is there any way around to use Ledger Live in Windows 7 maybe?

I don't believe a way around would be a nice solution here. You would be using an unsupported OS on ledger nano. Your coins may just be stolen. You are using a software without any support and out of specifications recommended by the manufacturer.

If you like windows 7 and ledger nano so much, why don't you use Electrum? It's 100% compatible with ledger nano and windows 7.
https://support.ledgerwallet.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-How-to-use-Electrum-with-your-Nano-S

I believe this is the best solution for you.

Electrum also gives you higher control over your coins, fees, transactions, keys etc...

If you use altcoins,this may not solve all of your problems...

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September 06, 2018, 01:40:53 PM
 #46

Just booted up my old system - can confirm that Ledger Live is still working absolutely fine on Windows 7:



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September 06, 2018, 02:27:36 PM
 #47

Oeleo, it may be working and installed but it's not recommended by the manufacturer.

Quote
Prerequisites

    a Ledger Nano S or a Ledger Blue device
    Make sure your computer has at least:
        macOS 10.9 (64-bit), Windows 10 (64-bit) or Linux Ubuntu 16.10
https://support.ledgerwallet.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006395553-Download-and-install-Ledger-Live

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September 06, 2018, 02:31:02 PM
 #48

Oeleo, it may be working and installed but it's not recommended by the manufacturer.

Oh absolutely, but using Windows 7 at all isn't recommended.


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September 06, 2018, 03:25:33 PM
 #49


If you like windows 7 and ledger nano so much, why don't you use Electrum? It's 100% compatible with ledger nano and windows 7.
https://support.ledgerwallet.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-How-to-use-Electrum-with-your-Nano-S

...Or he can still use the Chrome add-on. I am still using it ( a bit lazy recently) And thinking about it, anyone knows up to when it will still work? (Until the addon is removed from the store?)

Quote
It is definitely advised to NOT use it anymore. Especially if your computer contains sensitive or valuable information.

You could be surprised seeing all the companies still using it, and not only the departments not much dealing with data

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September 06, 2018, 03:33:00 PM
 #50

Is Windows 7 supported?
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September 06, 2018, 03:49:53 PM
 #51

Is Windows 7 supported?

Ledger Live works on Windows 7 but isn't officially supported. There is quite a long discussion about it above your post.



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o_e_l_e_o
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September 06, 2018, 04:01:17 PM
 #52

You could be surprised seeing all the companies still using it, and not only the departments not much dealing with data

I recently did some work in an establishment dealing with sensitive personal information using Windows XP on all their computers and servers. *shudder*

They were using various software packages that had since been abandoned, weren't compatible with newer Windows, and didn't have the money to buy new software. So they will stick with XP indefinitely.


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Lucius
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September 07, 2018, 10:10:48 AM
 #53


Your nano s itself won't be vulnerable.

But it is way easier to compromise your machine and try(!) to manipulate the ledger live software. And in case of you not double checking the tx details on your nano s, someone could slip you his address to send the funds to.
If this was to happen, the first one to be accused is ledger..

I understand their approach. People should ALWAYS use up-to-date software.
IMO old OS's shouldn't be supported at all.. by no company/developer.

I am using Windows 7 last 8-9 years without any security problem, but always with security&critical updates from Microsoft and with best AV+Firewall+Antimalware. I do not see that Windows 10 is better in any way then Windows 7, it is better only in spying on users. Clipboard malware can affect users on any Windows OS, why you think that it is easier to manipulate with Ledger Live on W7 then on W10? This is a safety issue that concerns of user security software (AV/Firewall), not as you say outdated OS.
 


I've used Ledger Live's monitoring feature on Windows 7 (64 bit) and it worked just fine - I wasn't even aware their requirements said it must be Windows 10. I would second bob123's point about Linux being a better choice, however.

Thanks for confirmation that is working on W7, it seems that Ledger is not accurate with prerequisites which confused many users. I agree that Linux is much better solution, and with the purchase of a new laptop I will definitely try it out.



I don't believe a way around would be a nice solution here. You would be using an unsupported OS on ledger nano. Your coins may just be stolen. You are using a software without any support and out of specifications recommended by the manufacturer.

If you like windows 7 and ledger nano so much, why don't you use Electrum? It's 100% compatible with ledger nano and windows 7.
https://support.ledgerwallet.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-How-to-use-Electrum-with-your-Nano-S

I believe this is the best solution for you.

Electrum also gives you higher control over your coins, fees, transactions, keys etc...

If you use altcoins,this may not solve all of your problems...

I always use Electrum in combination with Ledger Nano S, I got used to it and it is much better UI then Chrome app and probably from Ledger Live. Regarding your opinion of stolen coins, you should also know that private keys are protected inside Ledger, and only way that coins can be stolen is as Bob123 point out by clipboard malware, but Ledger always ask you to confirm sending and change address - if you can do that then you deserve to be hacked...


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bob123
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September 08, 2018, 09:23:33 AM
 #54

I am using Windows 7 last 8-9 years without any security problem, but always with security&critical updates from Microsoft and with best AV+Firewall+Antimalware.

Having a good AV and firewall setup (with rarely anyone setting up a firewall on his own) is good.
But having no incident in the past, doesn't mean it is secure for the future.



Clipboard malware can affect users on any Windows OS, why you think that it is easier to manipulate with Ledger Live on W7 then on W10?

When having access to the machine, it is probably about the same difficulty.
But GAINING access to the machine is easier on windows 7.

It is fine to use any OS you want.. just pointed out that an mostly outdated OS is more vulnerable overall than the newest version up-to-date.



This is a safety issue that concerns of user security software (AV/Firewall), not as you say outdated OS.

Not necessarily.
You can't just look at one thing when caring about securing your system.

There is no one single solution to prevent attacks etc. happening. Multiple layers of security interact to minimize the attack surface as far as possible.
Different technologies have to be combined to properly secure a network.

As an example, only looking at the OS, there are 17 public exploits available for windows 7, compared to 0 available for windows 10.

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