Should Che be an icon?

[Kaligulax]

Forty years after his death, the militant marxist continues to divide left-wingers around the world. Here, two prominent thinkers debate El Comandante's legacy

The myth of Che Guevara is seductive and lush. It's the story of an Argentinian rich-boy who was so shocked by poverty he became a Robin Hood fighting alongside the poor, until eventually he was murdered by the CIA. But the reality of Che Guevara is very different. The facts show that he was a totalitarian with a messiah streak, who openly wanted to impose Maoist tyranny on the world. He was so fanatical that at the hottest moment in the Cold War, he even begged the Soviet Union to nuke New York or Washington or Los Angeles and bring about the end of the world.

It is true that Che's story begins with a motorcycle journey across South America. The young man was repulsed by the gap between the swanky transplanted European culture in which he lived and the starving misery of the indigenous peoples. He could see that this was caused largely by America's habit of smashing local governments and replacing them with dictators prepared to slobber over US corporations. But he concluded from that journey – gradually, over a few short years – that there was only one solution: the imposition of authoritarian communism, by force, everywhere. He chose not to see that this system, wherever it is tried, makes people even poorer still, invariably spreading famine, starvation, and terror.

Of course, Che's defenders act as if this was the only choice confronted by Latin Americans: you were either for US-imposed market fundamentalism, or for Maoist Communism. But you don't have to look very far in Che's life to see that this is a lie. His diaries show that he was constantly appalled to discover that almost everyone around him, including the revolutionaries fighting by his side, did not share his Maoist vision for the future. His first wife, Hilda Gadea, was a social democrat. She wanted to depose the US-backed tyrants – and then replace them with moderate, Swedish-style mixed economies. Che ridiculed and pilloried her as "bourgeois", before abandoning both her and their child. The ordinary Cubans he fought alongside on the Sierra Maestra also wanted to create a democracy with a mixed economy. Disgusted, Che noted in his diary: "I discovered the evident anti-communist inclinations of most of them."


How is possible that this murderous monster became a pop cult icon. From any angle that you look at it, he is not a hero figure. Selling T-shirt with his image to clueless youth under the veil of being a "social rebel", when there are real heroes to emulate and honor. What an irony that Che is now used to sell T-shirts to make money for the capitalist shirt makers.

[tompa555]

Che is my favourite Marxist.

[Kaligulax]

Traditionally the progressives have hail despots as folk heroes, without having to live under their rule. In reality very few that have lived under Che’s influence in Cuba would have any doubt of his evil character. The evil of thousands of killings by fire squads during the reign of terror under Che Guevara cannot be justify by comparing it to the evils of the previous administration. Che was a cool killing machine whose history speaks for itself.

[tompa555]

Just because someone engage din political violence does not make them bad, he killed corrupt oligarchs who had betrayed their own people.

[Kaligulax]

On December 1964, during a debate in the United Nations General Assembly where Guevara represented de Cuban government, this was severely attacked because of the firing squad executions without any judicial process and evidence as required by the rule of law. Guevara, in his own voiced, responded:

"We must say here what is a known truth, which we have always expressed before the world: firing squad executions, yes, we have executed; we are executing and we will continue to execute as long as is necessary. Our struggle is a struggle to the death."

[tompa555]

People that say that communists shouldn't use capitalism don't understand communism in the least. Or, if you don't want to bother learning about it, capitalists should drop anything that came from Fedualism. So no more arabic numerals, coordinated alphabet, agriculture of most things you eat, and pants for you.

[Kaligulax]

The finished product of Communism: 100,000,000 humans slaughtered, 1917-1995. Che was but a blip in the red color scheme that once coated Africa, Asia and Europe on my high school map of the world.

[tompa555]

It's not like the people tried and executed were innocent... most of them had murdered, raped, exploited and oppressed the Cuban people for years. They would have done exactly the same to Che and the rest of the July movement supporters and fighters if they had lost.
Che Guevara was by no means a saint, but he was a good man. This is red scare crap and a disgusting, poor attempt at trying to demonize him. Some parts of it were so ridiculous I actually laughed.

[Kaligulax]

It is not that difficult to explain why the progressives make heroes out of murderous monsters like Che. It is a mean to replace the traditional Judeo-Christian moral code of Western culture for most of the last 2000 years. They hate this code because it requires self-control, and they prefer self-indulgence. They disregard traditional morality, which is about pursuit of things such as the good and the true.

Murdering Commies such as Che are "good guys" because they claim to be on the side of the peasant, the worker, the black. For the progressives Che qualifies as "good," no matter how many innocents he murdered. To them, to be "good" is to be a victim, which is why they constantly claim to be victims or to be in "solidarity" with them.

[tompa555]

Che stood against the exploitative practices of imperialism and capitalism at a time when it could mean losing your life. Many of the so called allegations against him come from biased sources that make even the most flexible historian blush. If you're looking for a non-biased historical biography on Che that neither gives praise nor judgement I'd recommend John Lee Anderson's work.
Also, when looking at the history of Che one must understand the context of the situation. The Batista regime was a nightmare on earth. Cuba was a gangsters paradise where rich North Americans came to party while most lived in poverty. That scene from godfather part 2 is a pretty accurate example of how corrupt a place it was.
Looking back at how the odds were stacked against him at every turn, one can't help but admire the man. Reading about his travels in South America will give you a little more perspective on how he came to believe what he believed.

[Kaligulax]

For progressives the end justifies the means. They will lie, stuff ballot boxes, steal, turn the truth into lies, permit all that is wrong in society to grow while condemning all that is right; all to further their own agenda, a new world order with their elitists in charg

[tompa555]

Right-wingers are enemies of the people. Their survival is no benefit, their destruction is no loss. Killing reactionaries isn't wrong: Even if Che were to do it on a whim, it wouldn't be wrong.

[Wilikon]

Just because someone engage din political violence does not make them bad, he killed corrupt oligarchs who had betrayed their own people.

That is why bitcoin exists. To make Che Lovers irrelevant...

[newflesh]

Che stood up for the poor and the sick, doesn't make him a murderous monster in my eyes.

[Wilikon]

Best place for an historical dick to end up?

[Wilikon]

http://youtu.be/h5g24XFTbXc

[newflesh]

I prefer this photo, Che Vs the wicked witch Maggie:

[Wilikon]

Che stood up for the poor and the sick, doesn't make him a murderous monster in my eyes.

Not in your eyes no. But maybe in the eyes of the family's victims?


Ché & Pinochet = different ends of the same rainbow.

[Spendulus]

Forty years after his death, the militant marxist continues to divide left-wingers around the world. Here, two prominent thinkers debate El Comandante's legacy

The myth of Che Guevara is seductive and lush. ....

I think that if bleeding heart socialists and communists want a role model they could do a lot better.  There are numerous Communist historical figures that in one way or another are worthy of considerable respect.  I say that as a die hard Capitalist.

Che does not so rank.

[Wilikon]

Forty years after his death, the militant marxist continues to divide left-wingers around the world. Here, two prominent thinkers debate El Comandante's legacy

The myth of Che Guevara is seductive and lush. ....

I think that if bleeding heart socialists and communists want a role model they could do a lot better.  There are numerous Communist historical figures that in one way or another are worthy of considerable respect.  I say that as a die hard Capitalist.

Che does not so rank.

I am VERY glad his face turned up to be one of the best capitalist tool ever, and in the case of his face kissing the anus of women on beaches everywhere, a communist stool...