[ANN][RIC] Riecoin: constellations POW *CPU* HARD FORK successful, world record

[Bigtruck45]

ok - windows build (very beta) of my miner is now online, same URL - http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dga/crypto/ric/

It's the one that ends in .exe.  Same dev fee, but this one is 9% me, 0.5% jh00, 0.5% clintar - I used his mingw makefile.

I'll be chipping that fee down over the coming days, but hopefully it's worthwhile running now even with it.

I am using this version on a core i5 under windows 7 and boosted from 7 to 9.
However it will not run on a Athlon 64 x2 running windows XP 32 bit version.

That's correct - sorry.  The code has far too much 64 bit in it to be worth doing a 32 bit version.  It would be extremely slow.  Glad to hear it's working well on your i5.

Core 15 now 10.15 compared to 7 before. Its well wortwhile paying dga a fee.

[1713538183]

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[1713538183]

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[surfer43]

no linux  I mean, there are always linux binaries 

Also, remember I'm paying 20% of my pool's 1% fee  and 50% of any additional donations to the developer(s) of the most optimized, open source miner for the stratum protocol.

I advise people to disregard what supercomputing says unless s/he provides proof of his/her claims. Again, look at supercomputing's negative trust and reference link.

If you look at what's happening with RIC right now, for example, there's one person solo mining 10% of the blocks with a private, super-optimized miner (not mine;  user a00k).  Supercomputing could be doing it too.  Any of the advanced miner devs could rent out a ton of machines quite profitably and mine on them.

Yes, please make these miners public, or else logically the price of RIC is going to plummet. And can you honestly believe there will not be developers that will optimize miners to these levels and release them open source? It is only a matter of time.

[dga]

no linux  I mean, there are always linux binaries 

Also, remember I'm paying 20% of my pool's 1% fee  and 50% of any additional donations to the developer(s) of the most optimized, open source miner for the stratum protocol.

I advise people to disregard what supercomputing says unless s/he provides proof of his/her claims. Again, look at supercomputing's negative trust and reference link.

If you look at what's happening with RIC right now, for example, there's one person solo mining 10% of the blocks with a private, super-optimized miner (not mine;  user a00k).  Supercomputing could be doing it too.  Any of the advanced miner devs could rent out a ton of machines quite profitably and mine on them.

Yes, please make these miners public, or else logically the price of RIC is going to plummet. And can you honestly believe there will not be developers that will optimize miners to these levels and release them open source? It is only a matter of time.

The default binary is Linux:  xptminer-sse4-b8

Of course we'll release them open eventually -- *I'm* going to release mine as open source.  But at minimum, I'm waiting until we get the pool fairness issues sorted out in a way that means that someone with access to my source won't be able to create a cheating miner that's 30%+ faster than everyone else's.  (And that's with the huge size sieves that the advanced miners use -- with the current open source code, cheaters get an even bigger advantage, because the sieve itself is slow.)

[surfer43]

no linux  I mean, there are always linux binaries 

Also, remember I'm paying 20% of my pool's 1% fee  and 50% of any additional donations to the developer(s) of the most optimized, open source miner for the stratum protocol.

I advise people to disregard what supercomputing says unless s/he provides proof of his/her claims. Again, look at supercomputing's negative trust and reference link.

If you look at what's happening with RIC right now, for example, there's one person solo mining 10% of the blocks with a private, super-optimized miner (not mine;  user a00k).  Supercomputing could be doing it too.  Any of the advanced miner devs could rent out a ton of machines quite profitably and mine on them.

Yes, please make these miners public, or else logically the price of RIC is going to plummet. And can you honestly believe there will not be developers that will optimize miners to these levels and release them open source? It is only a matter of time.

The default binary is Linux:  xptminer-sse4-b8

Of course we'll release them open eventually -- *I'm* going to release mine as open source.  But at minimum, I'm waiting until we get the pool fairness issues sorted out in a way that means that someone with access to my source won't be able to create a cheating miner that's 30%+ faster than everyone else's.  (And that's with the huge size sieves that the advanced miners use -- with the current open source code, cheaters get an even bigger advantage, because the sieve itself is slow.)

So they try to sieve for 4 chains specifically at the expense of finding blocks?

This means, as of now when you are mining in a pool, others are stealing your block-solving capabilities.

A quick solution: release the most optimized, "cheating", miner for finding shares specifically. If everyone has access to this miner, people will no longer be "cheating". Yes, the difficulty might fall and pools will find less blocks, but it will only be fair to people who can't modify their mining software to cheat.

[dga]

So they try to sieve for 4 chains specifically at the expense of finding blocks?

This means, as of now when you are mining in a pool, others are stealing your block-solving capabilities.

A quick solution: release the most optimized, "cheating", miner for finding shares specifically. If everyone has access to this miner, people will no longer be "cheating". Yes, the difficulty might fall and pools will find less blocks, but it will only be fair to people who can't modify their mining software to cheat.

Yup.  And - they could be, depending on what the pool verifies as a valid block.  There's an earlier discussion about this, but it's a little more tricky than I think gatra, jh, or I thought it was now that the sieves are getting huge and the diff is up.

As an example, I tested three variants of my best miner:
 - Version (a) is a "cheat" miner:  It ONLY looks for 4 chains;
 - Version (b) is a "50k-fair" miner:  It sieves all six spots to primes < 50,000, just like the open source version does, but then it sieves out the first 4 to 1 billion;
 - Version (c) is a "block-hunter":  It sieves all six to a billion.

Version (a) and (b) were indistinguishable.  Which means there's no profit with a fast miner to having a worse block-to-share ratio than the average person does.  Version (b) is what I'd been running myself previously and releasing.

But version (c) is what you really want your miners running, because it finds a lot more blocks.  But it produces *shares* at only 66% the rate of version (b), even though it finds more than twice as many blocks.  I'm now running version (c) because I think that even though it helps the pool more than it helps me, my smaller-slice-of-a-bigger-pie wins out.  But it's tricky.

What we need to do is determine the right incentive structure to make miners want to run version (c).

One answer is that maybe a00k or supercomputer's code doesn't have the same 1/3rd slowdown for all six that mine does.

  -Dave

[goodluck0319]

where do I get the RIEcoin calculator for this coin?

[surfer43]

This is interesting. The reason pools normally work is that there is no benefit to miners not to submit every block they find. With Riecoin on the other hand, they get extra shares for not even searching for blocks.  

dga: your mining software can be set to a 0% dev fee (or so it appears). I won't do that of course..

[antonio8]

@ surfer

How is the progress of your pool coming?

[deadthings]

- Version (a) is a "cheat" miner:  It ONLY looks for 4 chains;
 - Version (b) is a "50k-fair" miner:  It sieves all six spots to primes < 50,000, just like the open source version does, but then it sieves out the first 4 to 1 billion;
 - Version (c) is a "block-hunter":  It sieves all six to a billion.

And what about the bastard child nobody speaks of?

- Version (d) is a CUDA miner: The first rule is, you don't talk about it. The second rule is...

[surfer43]

@ surfer

How is the progress of your pool coming?

status: bug in stratum-mining. gatra is working on it (thanks).

Once that is fixed, it should work properly.

[gatra]

So they try to sieve for 4 chains specifically at the expense of finding blocks?

This means, as of now when you are mining in a pool, others are stealing your block-solving capabilities.

A quick solution: release the most optimized, "cheating", miner for finding shares specifically. If everyone has access to this miner, people will no longer be "cheating". Yes, the difficulty might fall and pools will find less blocks, but it will only be fair to people who can't modify their mining software to cheat.

Yup.  And - they could be, depending on what the pool verifies as a valid block.  There's an earlier discussion about this, but it's a little more tricky than I think gatra, jh, or I thought it was now that the sieves are getting huge and the diff is up.

As an example, I tested three variants of my best miner:
 - Version (a) is a "cheat" miner:  It ONLY looks for 4 chains;
 - Version (b) is a "50k-fair" miner:  It sieves all six spots to primes < 50,000, just like the open source version does, but then it sieves out the first 4 to 1 billion;
 - Version (c) is a "block-hunter":  It sieves all six to a billion.

Version (a) and (b) were indistinguishable.  Which means there's no profit with a fast miner to having a worse block-to-share ratio than the average person does.  Version (b) is what I'd been running myself previously and releasing.

But version (c) is what you really want your miners running, because it finds a lot more blocks.  But it produces *shares* at only 66% the rate of version (b), even though it finds more than twice as many blocks.  I'm now running version (c) because I think that even though it helps the pool more than it helps me, my smaller-slice-of-a-bigger-pie wins out.  But it's tricky.

What we need to do is determine the right incentive structure to make miners want to run version (c).

One answer is that maybe a00k or supercomputer's code doesn't have the same 1/3rd slowdown for all six that mine does.

  -Dave

If it's 66% then it can be solved this way:
a block is a 6tuple of primes, <p1, p2, p3, p4, p5, p6>
For shares, we also allow the last 2 numbers to be composite instead of primes, like this:
<p1, p2, p3, p4, p5, c6> or <p1, p2, p3, p4, c5, c6>
so 4 primes and 2 composites make a valid share.
If we allowed the following cases to be shares too:
<p1, p2, p3, p4, c6, p6>
<p1, p2, p3, c4, p5, p6>
<p1, p2, p3, c4, c5, p6>
<p1, p2, p3, c4, p5, c6>
Then versions (a) and (b) would miss lots of these cases, loosing their advantage. The best share-finder would be also the best block-finder.

I see only one drawback: currently a miner can stop testing if it finds something like <p1, p2, p3, c4, ??>. After the 4th test you know that you won't find a block or a share. But with this modification, the miner has to do 2 more tests because it could be a valid share of the form <p1, p2, p3, c4, c5, p6>.
This means the pooled miner has a small overhead compared to the solo block-finder that stops after the first composite. However this overhead is really mnimal: how many 3ch/s are you currently having per cpu? less than 1. Probably one 3ch every 10 seconds or more. That's how often you''d incurr in this overhead.

Currently, my stratum-mining accepts any combination that has at least 4 primes as long as the first one of the 6tuple is prime. I'm testing more carefully and I have to sleep now, but if everything goes ok we'll have full working new versions of the client, miner and stratum server during tomorrow.

gatra

EDIT: another thing: if you suspect someone is cheating ypool, you should contact jh00. I think he does trial division tests for some divisors on each share, so your (a) miner would be detected.

[northranger79510]

So they try to sieve for 4 chains specifically at the expense of finding blocks?

This means, as of now when you are mining in a pool, others are stealing your block-solving capabilities.

A quick solution: release the most optimized, "cheating", miner for finding shares specifically. If everyone has access to this miner, people will no longer be "cheating". Yes, the difficulty might fall and pools will find less blocks, but it will only be fair to people who can't modify their mining software to cheat.

Yup.  And - they could be, depending on what the pool verifies as a valid block.  There's an earlier discussion about this, but it's a little more tricky than I think gatra, jh, or I thought it was now that the sieves are getting huge and the diff is up.

As an example, I tested three variants of my best miner:
 - Version (a) is a "cheat" miner:  It ONLY looks for 4 chains;
 - Version (b) is a "50k-fair" miner:  It sieves all six spots to primes < 50,000, just like the open source version does, but then it sieves out the first 4 to 1 billion;
 - Version (c) is a "block-hunter":  It sieves all six to a billion.

Version (a) and (b) were indistinguishable.  Which means there's no profit with a fast miner to having a worse block-to-share ratio than the average person does.  Version (b) is what I'd been running myself previously and releasing.

But version (c) is what you really want your miners running, because it finds a lot more blocks.  But it produces *shares* at only 66% the rate of version (b), even though it finds more than twice as many blocks.  I'm now running version (c) because I think that even though it helps the pool more than it helps me, my smaller-slice-of-a-bigger-pie wins out.  But it's tricky.

What we need to do is determine the right incentive structure to make miners want to run version (c).

One answer is that maybe a00k or supercomputer's code doesn't have the same 1/3rd slowdown for all six that mine does.

  -Dave

If it's 66% then it can be solved this way:
a block is a 6tuple of primes, <p1, p2, p3, p4, p5, p6>
For shares, we also allow the last 2 numbers to be composite instead of primes, like this:
<p1, p2, p3, p4, p5, c6> or <p1, p2, p3, p4, c5, c6>
so 4 primes and 2 composites make a valid share.
If we allowed the following cases to be shares too:
<p1, p2, p3, p4, c6, p6>
<p1, p2, p3, c4, p5, p6>
<p1, p2, p3, c4, c5, p6>
<p1, p2, p3, c4, p5, c6>
Then versions (a) and (b) would miss lots of these cases, loosing their advantage. The best share-finder would be also the best block-finder.

I see only one drawback: currently a miner can stop testing if it finds something like <p1, p2, p3, c4, ??>. After the 4th test you know that you won't find a block or a share. But with this modification, the miner has to do 2 more tests because it could be a valid share of the form <p1, p2, p3, c4, c5, p6>.
This means the pooled miner has a small overhead compared to the solo block-finder that stops after the first composite. However this overhead is really mnimal: how many 3ch/s are you currently having per cpu? less than 1. Probably one 3ch every 10 seconds or more. That's how often you''d incurr in this overhead.

Currently, my stratum-mining accepts any combination that has at least 4 primes as long as the first one of the 6tuple is prime. I'm testing more carefully and I have to sleep now, but if everything goes ok we'll have full working new versions of the client, miner and stratum server during tomorrow.

gatra

Thank you for the effort and contribution Gatra. The community will try its best to support you!

[surfer43]

This is very good for Riecoin.  Thanks again gatra.

[GreekBitcoin]

what i want for days to ask and actually i forget is:

Is this coin actually trying to prove wrong the Riemann hypothesis or it just finds primes?

And if not yet will those primes that it finds will actually help this cause somehow in the future and how?

cause i remember that this coin was about that but then something changed i think..maybe it was difficult to program or something...

[Supercomputing]

no linux  I mean, there are always linux binaries 

Also, remember I'm paying 20% of my pool's 1% fee  and 50% of any additional donations to the developer(s) of the most optimized, open source miner for the stratum protocol.

I advise people to disregard what supercomputing says unless s/he provides proof of his/her claims. Again, look at supercomputing's negative trust and reference link.

If you look at what's happening with RIC right now, for example, there's one person solo mining 10% of the blocks with a private, super-optimized miner (not mine;  user a00k).  Supercomputing could be doing it too.  Any of the advanced miner devs could rent out a ton of machines quite profitably and mine on them.

Yes, please make these miners public, or else logically the price of RIC is going to plummet. And can you honestly believe there will not be developers that will optimize miners to these levels and release them open source? It is only a matter of time.

Hey mate, different people are good at different things, we can all learn from each other. When you get your pool up and running, I will happily join it, pool diversity is good. 

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[deadthings]

if everything goes ok we'll have full working new versions of the client, miner and stratum server during tomorrow.

When you get your pool up and running, I will happily join it, pool diversity is good.

Tomorrow could be a very good day for Riecoin indeed!

/hopesup
/buying

[surfer43]

When you get your pool up and running, I will happily join it, pool diversity is good.

Awesome, thanks. 

[trny]

what i want for days to ask and actually i forget is:

Is this coin actually trying to prove wrong the Riemann hypothesis or it just finds primes?

And if not yet will those primes that it finds will actually help this cause somehow in the future and how?

cause i remember that this coin was about that but then something changed i think..maybe it was difficult to program or something...

As I understand it, Riecoin is not directly trying to prove/disprove the Riemann hypothesis. Rather it is seeking primes that will verify the Hardy-Littlewood k-tuple conjecture for k=6 (info: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/k-TupleConjecture.html)

[surfer43]

what i want for days to ask and actually i forget is:

Is this coin actually trying to prove wrong the Riemann hypothesis or it just finds primes?

And if not yet will those primes that it finds will actually help this cause somehow in the future and how?

cause i remember that this coin was about that but then something changed i think..maybe it was difficult to program or something...

As I understand it, Riecoin is not directly trying to prove/disprove the Riemann hypothesis. Rather it is seeking primes that will verify the Hardy-Littlewood k-tuple conjecture for k=6 (info: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/k-TupleConjecture.html)

Also, from the NS article:

These "prime constellations" provide a way to test the Riemann hypothesis, which is one of the seven Millennium Prize Problems designated by the Clay Mathematics Institute in Providence, Rhode Island. A proof of the hypothesis is worth $1 million.

Riecoin can't find a proof, but it might find an example of a constellation that doesn't fit with Riemann and so offer clues as to how to disprove it – although most mathematicians expect it to hold.

[GordonSSS]

dga: your mining software can be set to a 0% dev fee (or so it appears). I won't do that of course..

Well, you can use the -d parameter to set the donation to whatever you want... but it is ignored and always hard-coded at 10%. No, I didn't miss a decimal point in that - it's 10%!