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Author Topic: [2018-06-15] FORBES: What If Bitcoin, Crypto Prices Are Being Manipulated?  (Read 72 times)
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June 15, 2018, 02:53:32 PM
 #1

I recently had this heated argument with a financial executive on the difference between Bitcoin and gold. He argued that they were pretty much the same thing. Gold's price has always been whatever people think it was worth. The same with cryptocurrencies.

I retorted that they are not the same. Gold is tangible. You can hold it in your hand. You know how much of it is being stored in vaults. Although the price certainly fluctuates, gold has been a store of value for thousands of years. It doesn't rust or corrode.

But what exactly is Bitcoin and its thousands of cousins? It's computer code and exists only in the imagination and in cyberspace. Its price is something borne of pure speculation. If cryptos are a store of value, what are they truly representing?

Read more: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/2018/06/15/what-if-bitcoin-crypto-prices-are-being-manipulated/#482d55ff2350

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June 15, 2018, 04:52:33 PM
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I retorted that they are not the same. Gold is tangible. You can hold it in your hand. You know how much of it is being stored in vaults. Although the price certainly fluctuates, gold has been a store of value for thousands of years. It doesn't rust or corrode.
Gold became store of value because it had good properties for being such - great chemical resistance and some durability, so it can be stored without degrading, scarcity, so people won't have to deal with large quantities or risk their wealth being reduced by increasing supply, and lack of practical applications for it. Bitcoin also has many values that make it a good store of value - it's much more compact than gold, so it's easier to transfer and store it physically: a piece of paper, usb or cd drive are most commonly  used, but any method for storing information works. You can even engrave your private key on a piece of gold to have a Bitcoin that "doesn't rust or corrode". Thanks to being digital Bitcoin is much faster and easier to move, meaning that Bitcoin can be used as a currency while gold is very impractical.

Its price is something borne of pure speculation.

Every price in the world is based on speculation, there's no such thing as intrinsic value, because value exists in human minds. Gold can easily become nearly worthless if in the future people will find even better store of value.

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June 15, 2018, 06:15:03 PM
 #3

Gold price actually isn't what people think it's worth, but more what governments and related mining giants think it's worth. The average person in his entire life can't dent gold's price, neither can we all combined if we sell all at once. China and Russia have been the largest known buyers of the last years, and they will continue using gold to hedge themselves just in case. Regarding what cryptos are truly representing, it's not something that you can say in general terms because it's different for each person. Cryptos for me might represent something completely different than for other people using them in a certain way....
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June 15, 2018, 07:22:53 PM
 #4

First of all, you should ask yourselves a question if you always have to store value in tangible goods. Back in the day, before the Internet came, you just couldn't do otherwise, so people learned that tangible goods that are scarce and valuable will remain this way. Then the Internet came and we started to have valuable domains, digital art, fiat money, online banking. We have so many valuable things that are intangible, the world is changing and we shouldn't be scared of changing with it.

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June 16, 2018, 04:56:03 PM
 #5

There are always numerous stories surmounting the fluctuations that bitcoin price showcases. None of them talks about the price manipulation by the biggies. This practice is predominant in this market. Everything is succumbed to speculations. Market feeds over it.
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June 16, 2018, 06:02:48 PM
 #6

Everything in this world is manipulated. You thought that the bitcoin price is free? Perhaps it was free when it was first made. But afterwards, big businessmen manipulators intervened within the price and manipulated it the way they wanted, and they still are doing it. I have no proof. But, even you are manipulated subconsciously either in real life or on the internet. There is nothing we can do about the price. It is up to them to decide.


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June 16, 2018, 08:27:40 PM
 #7

Everything in this world is manipulated. You thought that the bitcoin price is free? Perhaps it was free when it was first made. But afterwards, big businessmen manipulators intervened within the price and manipulated it the way they wanted, and they still are doing it. I have no proof. But, even you are manipulated subconsciously either in real life or on the internet. There is nothing we can do about the price. It is up to them to decide.

if you know about manipulation you are much better off than if you were living in blissfull ignorance
not everything in the world is manipulated though,but our nature is that we have to seek domination over others
rich people are rich because they were able to do something that others could not and
they manipulate the things to their advantage to preserve the status quo,bitcoin price included,so there is nothing surprising here

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June 16, 2018, 09:06:08 PM
 #8

Gold prices are manipulated as well. The amount of paper gold which is being traded really dwarfs the amount of physical gold which is being traded. Governments and other authorities have a vested interest in keeping the price of gold low.
With Bitcoin, I think authorities are behind the curve in manipulating its price. They wouldn't want it to become very successful.


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June 17, 2018, 09:49:28 AM
 #9

Price manipulation is everywhere where there is an opportunity to make a profit. There are always people or States that own the main assets. With their stocks, they can easily set the trend. We see the same with cryptocurrencies. The value of any asset is only a game of our imagination.
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June 17, 2018, 10:35:17 AM
 #10

Gold does have some inherent properties which have led it to be considered an effective store of value in many different isolated cultures and societies.  Particularly the fact that if you put it in a vault somewhere and leave it there for 100 years, you can take it out and it'll be fine.  The same can't be said for many other resources such as iron.

While Bitcoin doesn't have these inherent properties, it's in all crypto investors' best interest to keep using and maintaining Bitcoin and regarding it to be the biggest cryptocurrency, because cryptocurrencies' security is reliant on how much money is continuing to be invested in mining.  Bitcoin is the most secure because it is the biggest cryptocurrency, and part of the reason why it is the biggest cryptocurrency is because it is secure.  Therefore, first mover's advantage is extremely important to Bitcoin and could uphold its price for a long time even if it became less useful than other cryptocurrencies.

These properties don't affect market manipulation as much as the writer assumes though.  The gold price is often thought to be very heavily manipulated and much of its current price is not based on its scarcity and inherent properties.
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June 17, 2018, 12:26:27 PM
 #11

Price manipulation is everywhere where there is an opportunity to make a profit. There are always people or States that own the main assets. With their stocks, they can easily set the trend. We see the same with cryptocurrencies. The value of any asset is only a game of our imagination.

Being listed in a market that gives the people who has large sums of money an opportunity to trade crypto and gold makes it obvious that the prices can be manipulated. We know that there are market makers and those whales who take control of the market by playing the minds of the retail traders so that they would act according to their will may it be obvious or not. It would depend then on the trader how he would respond to the act of the whale and how he can take advantage of it. The key is to find signs that there is an impending move of the whale so that one can ride the wave with the whale.














 

 

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June 17, 2018, 02:06:53 PM
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 #12

Prices of many things are manipulated these days. Not only about gold or Bticoin we can say "price has always been whatever people think it was worth". Take paintings the price of which reaches dozens of millions USD, for example. Most people wouldn't pay $50 for one of those contemporary art paintings sold for millions on Sotheby's every year, and yet experts say they have value and that they are worth investing.

What I like about this overall negative article is that the writer, in the conclusion, is not ruling out the possibility of investing in crytpo just advising to do it with "no more than 10% of your portfolio".

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pixie85
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June 17, 2018, 08:15:47 PM
 #13

I think the manipulation exists, but id doesn't work only when the price is pumped up. It also works the other way. So maybe we were manipulated into this bear market and the value of Bitcoin is much higher than the exchanges want us to think. The amount of coins on the exchanges is very small when compared to the whole supply. A small group of  people with a small stake is dictating the price for us all.

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June 17, 2018, 09:04:29 PM
 #14

I recently had this heated argument with a financial executive on the difference between Bitcoin and gold. He argued that they were pretty much the same thing. Gold's price has always been whatever people think it was worth. The same with cryptocurrencies.

I retorted that they are not the same. Gold is tangible. You can hold it in your hand. You know how much of it is being stored in vaults. Although the price certainly fluctuates, gold has been a store of value for thousands of years. It doesn't rust or corrode.

But what exactly is Bitcoin and its thousands of cousins? It's computer code and exists only in the imagination and in cyberspace. Its price is something borne of pure speculation. If cryptos are a store of value, what are they truly representing?

Read more: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/2018/06/15/what-if-bitcoin-crypto-prices-are-being-manipulated/#482d55ff2350

I do not understand what was your discussion about in the end.
And how does it is connected you your subject.

I can comment on different points of your post .
As about price manipulation about Gold and Silver and BTC. Yes, we all knew that BTC price is relatively easy to manipulate even before the recent research about USDT and BTC price manipulation.
But the gold and silver markets also are and have been manipulated by big and smart players, some of them have been caught and i have to draw your attention what happens when for example Silver price is manipulated to such extent when it falls below certain level that actual people who mine it in pour countries are committing suicides.

Also your comment about BTC being something imaginary is just ridiculous to say the least.

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June 19, 2018, 08:07:20 AM
 #15

Oil, politics or even in a basketball game,  manipulation exist. It can be a huge manipulation or a just a subtle manipulation but I know that in the cryptocurrency market, there is a huge manipulation that is going on because we are talking about millions of dollars here.

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