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Author Topic: Ponzi Schemes are illegal right?  (Read 354 times)
joeperry
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June 14, 2018, 05:24:03 PM
 #21

In most countries Ponzi schemes are illegal and looking at the rules discussion of illegal activities or selling of illegal things are not allowed.

Why are they not moderated in this is the case? Ponzi schemes are usually easy to spot as these days there is not much of an effort that gets put in them. I know the current stance of the forum against ponzi schemes is they are not removed.

I want to know why this is if they are illegal in the majority of the countries. Doesn't this forum have to follow the laws that its hosted in?
I think forum cannot do much in stopping this ponzi scheme until some evidence is displayed against any of it. But I think its more about our selection and how we select a project by studying it first and then investing in it. This will take us away from most of the ponzi scheme so blind investing will result in fall to the ponzi scheme.

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June 14, 2018, 07:36:15 PM
 #22

Nope. Bitcointalk does not have any kind of liability whatsover as they are not the ones providing the scams. Let us make this an easier example, We all know by now that Facebook is the number one Social Media site being used by a lot of people everyday in FB and through its messenger you will see a lot of scams happening from Facebook groups and  through its chatting service. But even though scams are openly happening to FB it doesn't make them liable for the user's losses as first of all the transaction only involves two parties which is the victim and the scammer, FB on the otherhand provides as means of communication for both, it doesn't even make their site as an accessory to the crime. Secondly it is in the user's discretion on transacting with another party online, FB does have the power to monitor everything but by doing so they will violate our privacy. The same can be said to BCT as they are simply not part of any liability.

My question was more related to two rules conflicting that anything illegal will be removed but ponzi schemes remain on the forum and won't be removed by moderators. I'm pretty sure that almost all countries find ponzi schemes illegal. I can't find a list of countries that have banned it
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June 15, 2018, 12:39:59 AM
 #23

Nope. Bitcointalk does not have any kind of liability whatsover as they are not the ones providing the scams. Let us make this an easier example, We all know by now that Facebook is the number one Social Media site being used by a lot of people everyday in FB and through its messenger you will see a lot of scams happening from Facebook groups and  through its chatting service. But even though scams are openly happening to FB it doesn't make them liable for the user's losses as first of all the transaction only involves two parties which is the victim and the scammer, FB on the otherhand provides as means of communication for both, it doesn't even make their site as an accessory to the crime. Secondly it is in the user's discretion on transacting with another party online, FB does have the power to monitor everything but by doing so they will violate our privacy. The same can be said to BCT as they are simply not part of any liability.

My question was more related to two rules conflicting that anything illegal will be removed but ponzi schemes remain on the forum and won't be removed by moderators. I'm pretty sure that almost all countries find ponzi schemes illegal. I can't find a list of countries that have banned it

I think marlboroza already answered that quite accurately and bluntly.


Excuse me, but in which country is investment fraud legal?



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June 15, 2018, 09:58:44 PM
 #24

I think marlboroza already answered that quite accurately and bluntly.


Yes which backs up my claim that the two rules conflict. Ponzi schemes are illegal all of the countries that I know of and should be removed according to the rules.
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June 15, 2018, 11:18:29 PM
 #25

I think marlboroza already answered that quite accurately and bluntly.


Yes which backs up my claim that the two rules conflict. Ponzi schemes are illegal all of the countries that I know of and should be removed according to the rules.

Ponzis are usually identified by tagging negative trust. While the signs are relatively easy to identify it is harder to prove definitively that it is a ponzi. Unlike some selling illegal drugs - which would be easy to identify and prove is illegal.

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June 17, 2018, 06:34:41 AM
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 #26

While the signs are relatively easy to identify it is harder to prove definitively that it is a ponzi.

Now days it is almost impossible to prove that project is a ponzi scheme. All of them are masked under MLM companies that are completely LEGAL or under Cloud Mining services, that are LEGAL too. There is also a new and very interesting crypto ponzi scheme, called company revenue shares... Some crypto companies are offering to the token holders the share from their monthly revenues. For example. I invested $1000 and bought the tokens. Every month the company is issuing the statement about their monthly revenue and that revenue is paid to all token holders. Nobody knows if the numbers in that statements are correct, because no external audit is allowed. I know a person who invested $4500 in such project and he is getting $2-4 a week. Yes TWO OR FOUR DOLLARS A WEEK. It means that he needs more than 10 years just to get his money back. That is a well masked PONZI and there is no way to PROVE it. 
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June 22, 2018, 07:43:14 AM
 #27


Now days it is almost impossible to prove that project is a ponzi scheme. All of them are masked under MLM companies that are completely LEGAL or under Cloud Mining services, that are LEGAL too. There is also a new and very interesting crypto ponzi scheme, called company revenue shares... Some crypto companies are offering to the token holders the share from their monthly revenues. For example. I invested $1000 and bought the tokens. Every month the company is issuing the statement about their monthly revenue and that revenue is paid to all token holders. Nobody knows if the numbers in that statements are correct, because no external audit is allowed.

I agree.

I know a person who invested $4500 in such project and he is getting $2-4 a week. Yes TWO OR FOUR DOLLARS A WEEK. It means that he needs more than 10 years just to get his money back. That is a well masked PONZI and there is no way to PROVE it.  

It depends completely on how the revenue is generated. A small return like that is sustainable in ordinary commerce situations. If genuine revenue is generated then it isn't a ponzi. If new investment is used to pay old investors then it has the elements of a ponzi. This can sometimes be detected by following the blockchain payments.

ICO tokens that pay a "dividend" run into new risks - being an unregistered security.

Howey Test (USA)
It is an investment of money ☑
There is an expectation of profits from the investment ☑
The investment of money is in a common enterprise ☑
Any profit comes from the efforts of a promoter or third party ☑

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/328/293.html
https://apps.americanbar.org/buslaw/newsletter/0014/materials/investmentch2.pdf

Commonwealth law is a bit different but the test is symilar.
https://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/digital-transformation/initial-coin-offerings-and-crypto-currency/#when



We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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