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Author Topic: Someone is trying to manipulate the market (Mt.Gox) and are successful...  (Read 3453 times)
Minsc
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September 22, 2011, 03:24:18 AM
 #21

All this time you spend to make your lunch money could earn you a real salary if you sold trinkets on eBay.

I sell trinkets on eBay and buyers only want the item if it's basically free and a lot do "friendly fraud" to get it free.  eBay shut down their livechat, never reads email (even states this in the emails), won't answer the phone, and basically is completely uncontactable by anyone so it's horrible.

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mizerydearia
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September 22, 2011, 03:25:09 AM
 #22

This doesn't seem liek an issue.  Perhaps a useful move would be for someone to put up a 'fuck you' I'm buying 30,000 bitcoins at us$6 (or whatever the price is) and buy them and then the person playing around would be left with us$ and without their bitcoins?   Even more useful would be if someone who were to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars were to take advantage of this opportunity to REALLY say 'fuck you' by writing a bot to wait for those orders to exist and then buy them up at such a great value. 
RyNinDaCleM
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September 22, 2011, 03:25:54 AM
 #23

All this time you spend to make your lunch money could earn you a real salary if you sold trinkets on eBay.


If I ate that many $ in food, I'd be HUGE!
I make just as much trading BTC for a few hours after work, as I do in wages!
Doubling my income is well worth my time!

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September 22, 2011, 05:56:08 AM
 #24

Just a thought... if this 'manipulator' is so predictable that after the event many people comment 'of course he did that' and 'I knew that would happen', why not take advantage of this apparently predictable behaviour to make some quick profits?

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September 22, 2011, 06:06:58 AM
 #25

If you want to trade this market you should know that 1. Mt.Gox is allowing this kind of act, because anyone can see it happening. Because of this no one cares, in the long run I don't think this is good. But this is the rule of the game today. 2. If you don't understand or have not that much experience trading than I would say that Bitcoins exchanged/traded at Mt.Gox right now is a massive hustle for the majority of people out there. 3. I know the game, and I also know that Mt.Gox rates is manipulated, knowing this all trades that I make are at my own risk.

Exactly, so what's the problem?

I mean, if you are just trying to inform people to save them from "The Manipulator", awesome. But don't you think that's been done already in the other threads?

If so many people think this way, why does MtGox have more volume than all the other exchanges combined? You would think people would leave in flocks to avoid being sheared.

Talking about volume, forgot about that. I have just started to trade this market. My conclusion is that most volume is from the bots (beside the volume from the manipulator). Because Mt.Gox is taking at least 0,25 % in fees per trade on each side, that means that the only one that can have active bots is Mt.Gox them self. So the big picture. Most volume are from Mt.Gox, the real volume should be at a much lower level. Money is going back and forward by two groups: Mt.Gox own bots and "the manipulator". Together maybe they have 80-90 % of the volume.

If this is really the case that the big majority of the volume is from this two parts, then Bitcoin shouldn't be trading at 5.70 dollars. More like 2-3 dollars.

If MtGox is trading on its own exchange this is insider trading and should be stopped.
we should clarify this with the owner Mark kapeles.

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hiVe
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September 22, 2011, 08:33:13 AM
 #26

After all we've been through I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. Just another drop of water in the already large "selfishness" pool.
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September 22, 2011, 11:01:41 AM
 #27

I'm surprised people make such a big deal of this "the manipulator".  Powerful traders are the inevitable consequence of trading in a small free market.  For those that don't like this there are many large and highly regulated markets out there.

In the same way as competition encourages miners to use very efficient hardware, so to does this free market encourage traders to make smart choices.  I find myself placing blame for high market volatility on bad traders rather than powerful ones.  As more unprofitable traders are driven from the market, panic sells and unthinking rallies will become rarer and less extreme.  I take solace in knowing that we are evolving towards stability.

TL;DR: If anything, I'm more annoyed with "the manipulated" than "the manipulator".
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September 22, 2011, 12:55:52 PM
 #28

I'm surprised people make such a big deal of this "the manipulator".  Powerful traders are the inevitable consequence of trading in a small free market.  For those that don't like this there are many large and highly regulated markets out there.

In the same way as competition encourages miners to use very efficient hardware, so to does this free market encourage traders to make smart choices.  I find myself placing blame for high market volatility on bad traders rather than powerful ones.  As more unprofitable traders are driven from the market, panic sells and unthinking rallies will become rarer and less extreme.  I take solace in knowing that we are evolving towards stability.

TL;DR: If anything, I'm more annoyed with "the manipulated" than "the manipulator".

this +1

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September 22, 2011, 01:00:26 PM
 #29

I'm surprised people make such a big deal of this "the manipulator".  Powerful traders are the inevitable consequence of trading in a small free market.  For those that don't like this there are many large and highly regulated markets out there.

In the same way as competition encourages miners to use very efficient hardware, so to does this free market encourage traders to make smart choices.  I find myself placing blame for high market volatility on bad traders rather than powerful ones.  As more unprofitable traders are driven from the market, panic sells and unthinking rallies will become rarer and less extreme.  I take solace in knowing that we are evolving towards stability.

TL;DR: If anything, I'm more annoyed with "the manipulated" than "the manipulator".


+1
Thank you for this.
If people are manipulated, it is because they are basing their buy/sell decisions on what others are doing, and not on their personal assessment of where bitcoin is going in the future.

Take ownership of your lives, people!

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September 22, 2011, 01:34:06 PM
 #30

I'm surprised people make such a big deal of this "the manipulator".  Powerful traders are the inevitable consequence of trading in a small free market.  For those that don't like this there are many large and highly regulated markets out there.

In the same way as competition encourages miners to use very efficient hardware, so to does this free market encourage traders to make smart choices.  I find myself placing blame for high market volatility on bad traders rather than powerful ones.  As more unprofitable traders are driven from the market, panic sells and unthinking rallies will become rarer and less extreme.  I take solace in knowing that we are evolving towards stability.

TL;DR: If anything, I'm more annoyed with "the manipulated" than "the manipulator".


+1
Thank you for this.
If people are manipulated, it is because they are basing their buy/sell decisions on what others are doing, and not on their personal assessment of where bitcoin is going in the future.

Take ownership of your lives, people!

Boom. Exactly.
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September 22, 2011, 03:22:39 PM
 #31

If MtGox is trading on its own exchange this is insider trading and should be stopped.
we should clarify this with the owner Mark kapeles.

MagicalTux has already stated that mtgox doesn't trade at all because it would be unfair, or at least look that way.  That may or may not be true, but I don't consider the whining of lousy traders or the insane speculation of conspiracy theory nuts to be evidence in either direction.

If someone does have actual evidence, I would love to see it, as would everyone else, I'm sure.  That none has appeared seems to say a lot, even if it is neither conclusive nor final.

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September 22, 2011, 03:38:22 PM
 #32

Oh well, as long as he pinky swears.   Roll Eyes

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September 22, 2011, 03:58:45 PM
 #33

If MtGox is trading on its own exchange this is insider trading and should be stopped.
we should clarify this with the owner Mark kapeles.

MagicalTux has already stated that mtgox doesn't trade at all because it would be unfair, or at least look that way.  That may or may not be true, but I don't consider the whining of lousy traders or the insane speculation of conspiracy theory nuts to be evidence in either direction.

If someone does have actual evidence, I would love to see it, as would everyone else, I'm sure.  That none has appeared seems to say a lot, even if it is neither conclusive nor final.

If Mark Kapeles said that publicly, then I believe him

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kjj
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September 22, 2011, 04:21:00 PM
 #34

If MtGox is trading on its own exchange this is insider trading and should be stopped.
we should clarify this with the owner Mark kapeles.

MagicalTux has already stated that mtgox doesn't trade at all because it would be unfair, or at least look that way.  That may or may not be true, but I don't consider the whining of lousy traders or the insane speculation of conspiracy theory nuts to be evidence in either direction.

If someone does have actual evidence, I would love to see it, as would everyone else, I'm sure.  That none has appeared seems to say a lot, even if it is neither conclusive nor final.

If Mark Kapeles said that publicly, then I believe him

It was in #mtgox on freenode IRC a while back.  They collect fees in whatever currency is being purchased, so they end up with a lot of BTC.  He said that they save it for purchases, like buying bitomat.pl, rather than trade it because of their position as insiders.  I saw it, but don't have logs, so now you are trusting me (and my memory), plus him, but I'm sure he'd give the same answer if someone asked again.

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September 22, 2011, 04:45:57 PM
 #35

thanks for the clarification

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September 22, 2011, 07:07:09 PM
 #36

Indeed, the manipulation is more dangerous than I thought... Specially now that we have bitcoinica...
I bought lots of BTC at 6, and then that 17k BTC wall appeared along with several massive dumps...
quickly BTC went to near 5, and I got a forced liquidation Sad
What did you expect to happen if you bought on margin?

In case you haven't noticed, Bitcoin hasn't had more than three consecutive up days in the last 3 months. Buying on the third day at 6 was dumb. Buying at 6 on margin was dumber.

Quote
Click on my ponzi scheme link please
Someone is trying to find others dumber than they are.
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September 22, 2011, 07:12:10 PM
 #37

Heh, the ponzi scheme thing is very old...

I do not think it work anymore, after someone attacked the site... But it was one of the first sites to accept BTC (it accepted 1 BTC... I parcicipated on it when BTC was valued 0.7 thus not big deal or anything...)




But yes, I did something sorta dumb buying at margin at 6... :/ Or rather, not realizing my profits when I had the chance...

Fucking greed Sad

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September 23, 2011, 12:07:54 AM
 #38

I completely with the comments about the overhyped "manipulator" and that it should be expected.  I also agree that bad traders are largely to blame for market volatility (though I can't say I personally mind the volatility).

But, there is one scenario that could potentially screw the whole lot of us...the largest sell-off that we've never seen.

Edit:  By the way, you all do realize there's now some guy sitting alone in his basement by his computer wearing a cape with a huge "M" on the back of it, right?

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September 23, 2011, 01:05:47 AM
 #39

In case you haven't noticed, Bitcoin hasn't had more than three consecutive up days in the last 3 months. Buying on the third day at 6 was dumb. Buying at 6 on margin was dumber.

Certainly that won't be the pattern until the end of time. I'd say 95% of us expect a rally, perhaps even within the next week or two...

Edit:  By the way, you all do realize there's now some guy sitting alone in his basement by his computer wearing a cape with a huge "M" on the back of it, right?

I just pictured it. Cheesy
Minsc
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September 23, 2011, 01:45:09 AM
 #40

Today was an awful day for speculators because the price just stagnated.  I hope tommorow it will do its weekend drop.

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