[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]

[Sine(X)]

Bitmain (>10%), KnC (5%) and BitFury (>10%) operate large mining farms.

Bitmain shouldn't have 8/10 in ehtics. They abuse cgminer's software license,  caused a hardfork by not checking blocks they mine on top on and lied about Antpool beeing a p2pool pool (not related to their hardware but same company).

Why are you talking about Bitmain DC >10% ?
AntPool is a Pool for Bitmain's customer. Do we know smth about Bitmain selfish DC?

[1713910075]

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[1713910075]

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[notlist3d]

Bitmain (>10%), KnC (5%) and BitFury (>10%) operate large mining farms.

Bitmain shouldn't have 8/10 in ehtics. They abuse cgminer's software license,  caused a hardfork by not checking blocks they mine on top on and lied about Antpool beeing a p2pool pool (not related to their hardware but same company).

Why are you talking about Bitmain DC >10% ?
AntPool is a Pool for Bitmain's customer. Do we know smth about Bitmain selfish DC?

They don't really advertise.  Only picture I have seen is Yoshi holding a sign when they thought about selling a whole center.

So I don't think we know unless someone has some inside info.

[dogie]

Bitmain (>10%), KnC (5%) and BitFury (>10%) operate large mining farms.

Bitmain shouldn't have 8/10 in ehtics. They abuse cgminer's software license,  caused a hardfork by not checking blocks they mine on top on and lied about Antpool beeing a p2pool pool (not related to their hardware but same company).

Why are you talking about Bitmain DC >10% ?
AntPool is a Pool for Bitmain's customer. Do we know smth about Bitmain selfish DC?

They don't really advertise.  Only picture I have seen is Yoshi holding a sign when they thought about selling a whole center.

So I don't think we know unless someone has some inside info.

A good portion of Bitmain's hardware is on AntPool. The Yoshi sign was an S2 farm being sold on behalf of a customer, it wasn't Bitmain's.

[Sine(X)]

Bitmain (>10%), KnC (5%) and BitFury (>10%) operate large mining farms.

Bitmain shouldn't have 8/10 in ehtics. They abuse cgminer's software license,  caused a hardfork by not checking blocks they mine on top on and lied about Antpool beeing a p2pool pool (not related to their hardware but same company).

Why are you talking about Bitmain DC >10% ?
AntPool is a Pool for Bitmain's customer. Do we know smth about Bitmain selfish DC?

They don't really advertise.  Only picture I have seen is Yoshi holding a sign when they thought about selling a whole center.

So I don't think we know unless someone has some inside info.

A good portion of Bitmain's hardware is on AntPool. The Yoshi sign was an S2 farm being sold on behalf of a customer, it wasn't Bitmain's.

So Bitmain doesn't have huge self mining, right?

[dogie]

Bitmain (>10%), KnC (5%) and BitFury (>10%) operate large mining farms.

Bitmain shouldn't have 8/10 in ehtics. They abuse cgminer's software license,  caused a hardfork by not checking blocks they mine on top on and lied about Antpool beeing a p2pool pool (not related to their hardware but same company).

Why are you talking about Bitmain DC >10% ?
AntPool is a Pool for Bitmain's customer. Do we know smth about Bitmain selfish DC?

They don't really advertise.  Only picture I have seen is Yoshi holding a sign when they thought about selling a whole center.

So I don't think we know unless someone has some inside info.

A good portion of Bitmain's hardware is on AntPool. The Yoshi sign was an S2 farm being sold on behalf of a customer, it wasn't Bitmain's.

So Bitmain doesn't have huge self mining, right?

It does have huge self mining.

[Sine(X)]

Bitmain (>10%), KnC (5%) and BitFury (>10%) operate large mining farms.

Bitmain shouldn't have 8/10 in ehtics. They abuse cgminer's software license,  caused a hardfork by not checking blocks they mine on top on and lied about Antpool beeing a p2pool pool (not related to their hardware but same company).

Why are you talking about Bitmain DC >10% ?
AntPool is a Pool for Bitmain's customer. Do we know smth about Bitmain selfish DC?

They don't really advertise.  Only picture I have seen is Yoshi holding a sign when they thought about selling a whole center.

So I don't think we know unless someone has some inside info.

A good portion of Bitmain's hardware is on AntPool. The Yoshi sign was an S2 farm being sold on behalf of a customer, it wasn't Bitmain's.

So Bitmain doesn't have huge self mining, right?

It does have huge self mining.

"Huge" is a relative concept
Somebody will say BW is a huge player, somebody Ghash, somebody Kano

[dogie]

Bitmain (>10%), KnC (5%) and BitFury (>10%) operate large mining farms.

Bitmain shouldn't have 8/10 in ehtics. They abuse cgminer's software license,  caused a hardfork by not checking blocks they mine on top on and lied about Antpool beeing a p2pool pool (not related to their hardware but same company).

Why are you talking about Bitmain DC >10% ?
AntPool is a Pool for Bitmain's customer. Do we know smth about Bitmain selfish DC?

They don't really advertise.  Only picture I have seen is Yoshi holding a sign when they thought about selling a whole center.

So I don't think we know unless someone has some inside info.

A good portion of Bitmain's hardware is on AntPool. The Yoshi sign was an S2 farm being sold on behalf of a customer, it wasn't Bitmain's.

So Bitmain doesn't have huge self mining, right?

It does have huge self mining.

"Huge" is a relative concept
Somebody will say BW is a huge player, somebody Ghash, somebody Kano

Which is why the FF rating isn't used any more. If you have a farm of any meaningful size, you get an F rating.

[Sine(X)]

Bitmain (>10%), KnC (5%) and BitFury (>10%) operate large mining farms.

Bitmain shouldn't have 8/10 in ehtics. They abuse cgminer's software license,  caused a hardfork by not checking blocks they mine on top on and lied about Antpool beeing a p2pool pool (not related to their hardware but same company).

Why are you talking about Bitmain DC >10% ?
AntPool is a Pool for Bitmain's customer. Do we know smth about Bitmain selfish DC?

They don't really advertise.  Only picture I have seen is Yoshi holding a sign when they thought about selling a whole center.

So I don't think we know unless someone has some inside info.

A good portion of Bitmain's hardware is on AntPool. The Yoshi sign was an S2 farm being sold on behalf of a customer, it wasn't Bitmain's.

So Bitmain doesn't have huge self mining, right?

It does have huge self mining.

"Huge" is a relative concept
Somebody will say BW is a huge player, somebody Ghash, somebody Kano

Which is why the FF rating isn't used any more. If you have a farm of any meaningful size, you get an F rating.

As for me it's logical decision

[freedomno1]

You might as well add sidehack to this, considering how he's opened up sales for his usb miner!
Or not. It's your list, after all.

I'll consider it. If I do update this then a number of companies will come off or go to some other list as they've been dormant too long / closed. After Yiazo (which is one of those), the next smallest company does a few $M turnover.

This guide hasn't been updated for a while if I presume correctly it might be a good time to remove some of the dormant companies off the list.
At the least Asicminer is a dead asset.

[dogie]

You might as well add sidehack to this, considering how he's opened up sales for his usb miner!
Or not. It's your list, after all.

I'll consider it. If I do update this then a number of companies will come off or go to some other list as they've been dormant too long / closed. After Yiazo (which is one of those), the next smallest company does a few $M turnover.

This guide hasn't been updated for a while if I presume correctly it might be a good time to remove some of the dormant companies off the list.
At the least Asicminer is a dead asset.

At this point I might as well leave it as it is as there are so many companies to cull. There'd only be 6-8 left, Bitmain, Bitfury, Spondoolies, Canaan Creative, KNC, Technobit (sort of), HashCoins (sort of), XBTech (sort of). Might just be better to leave it as an archive.

[freedomno1]

You might as well add sidehack to this, considering how he's opened up sales for his usb miner!
Or not. It's your list, after all.

I'll consider it. If I do update this then a number of companies will come off or go to some other list as they've been dormant too long / closed. After Yiazo (which is one of those), the next smallest company does a few $M turnover.

This guide hasn't been updated for a while if I presume correctly it might be a good time to remove some of the dormant companies off the list.
At the least Asicminer is a dead asset.

At this point I might as well leave it as it is as there are so many companies to cull. There'd only be 6-8 left, Bitmain, Bitfury, Spondoolies, Canaan Creative, KNC, Technobit (sort of), HashCoins (sort of), XBTech (sort of). Might just be better to leave it as an archive.

True enough it has been quite the year, it would be better to revive it if their is new activity in the future but your right at present this works best as an archive for people to reference.
That said since its basically an archive Thanks for all the Fish in this thread Dogie retroactively

[dogie]

If I've got some time this week then I'll update the thread. Can anyone think of any companies outside of the list that have actually delivered anything? Seems strange that there hasn't been one new company in the last 11 months. At the same time, the following companies will be sent to some form of archive:

AMT, HashFast, Cointerra, BFL, Bitmine, RockMiner, BTCGarden, Yiazo, XBTech, Bitrane and ASICMiner.

[o_solo_miner]

  And please put a - 100 on Technobit !

They do not refund or send miners!
I will say, Technobit is now a big SCAM!

[dogie]

Updated for 1st Feb 2016.

[notlist3d]

Interesting to see it updated not a ton in still active.   On hashcoins it appears they got credit for a miner never made.  It lists Zeus which was a miner we never even saw on market, or in prototypes.  They removed it from active and went to Uranus which does not exist.

You might pull it from their miners as they really should not get credit for a miner that never was sold and did not appear to even be made.  All it ever was was a picture of a big case to my knowledge which I could be wrong.

[dogie]

They're not getting credit, its attributing a miner name to a company so its recognised.

[notlist3d]

They're not getting credit, its attributing a miner name to a company so its recognised.

Ahh ok I see the small print looking at it again "Integrator of HashFast and other chips. Offered preorders for two products which did not materialise."

Thanks for explaining.

[sidehack]

Wonder how I'd rank on here.

[dogie]

Wonder how I'd rank on here.

I'm not sure, I'm not a fan of adding the smaller OEMs on the current system. (like Yiazo) because the size criteria doesn't count string enough. A company like Bitfury - with otherwise identical performance - is far less likely to run off with your money without recourse. 9 points doesn't really do that justice.

[dogie]

[02/01/2015 23:59:59] *** Show messages from: 03 January 2015 - 27 January 2015 ***
[27/01/2015 12:10:34] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: hi
[27/01/2015 12:16:10] dogie: whats up
[27/01/2015 12:16:21] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: all good.
[27/01/2015 12:16:29] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: Some development in the funding front
[27/01/2015 12:16:36] dogie: do tell
[27/01/2015 12:16:47] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: It will help me if you'll the trustworthiness guide
[27/01/2015 12:16:57] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: I'm using it in my investors deck
[27/01/2015 12:18:02] dogie: if I what the trustworthiness guide?
[27/01/2015 12:18:25] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: update it
[27/01/2015 12:18:36] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: 100 or near 100 score will help
[27/01/2015 12:20:16] dogie: you're as close as it gets, there is only one number off and you can use it as a selling point
[27/01/2015 12:20:53] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: I need to be above BitFury
[27/01/2015 12:20:57] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: and I believe I deserve it.
[27/01/2015 12:21:01] dogie: "we'd love to sell in hand hardware every time, and be the highest rated company in the marketplace"....
[27/01/2015 12:21:09] dogie: "but for that we need this round"
[27/01/2015 12:21:57] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: something like
[27/01/2015 12:22:02] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: not exactly
[27/01/2015 12:22:13] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: We're moving to lower burning rate mode
[27/01/2015 12:22:26] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: proving the design first and then raising to build
[27/01/2015 12:22:41] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: I do want to show that we're the best brand, IMHO, in this market
[27/01/2015 12:22:47] Adam - dogie: Its not going to be decided until you announce next gen, either in stock or not
[27/01/2015 12:22:50] Adam - dogie: brb 30
[27/01/2015 12:23:47] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: well, I find it unfair
[27/01/2015 12:24:02] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: and out the guidelines set by you
[27/01/2015 12:24:19] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: I believe we deserve clear 100 score by your rules
[27/01/2015 13:02:09] dogie: you've been treated identically to BFL who are also in the state of transition, nothing is different for you
[27/01/2015 13:03:22] dogie: and to be honest if there was an update now is you're ethics - other infraction for what happened with the commission.
[27/01/2015 13:05:04] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: Our ethics regarding the commission are spotless. You're not treated in any other way.
[27/01/2015 13:05:50] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: We're not in state of transition. We're in funding struggle from day one. Nothing changed.
[27/01/2015 13:06:04] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: And I don't care for the comparison with BFL.
[27/01/2015 13:10:24] dogie: ... from preorder model to in hand exclusively model
[27/01/2015 13:10:58] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: all our stock is in hand and I'm openly declaring that we won't do pre-order on our next gen.
[27/01/2015 13:11:02] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: What else do you want ?
[27/01/2015 13:11:18] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: We'll either get funded, survive and do 3rd gen or not
[27/01/2015 13:11:32] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: it doesn't change the fact that we're not pre-order company any more
[27/01/2015 13:11:37] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: not even mix
[27/01/2015 13:12:00] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: I've stated it endless times. 3rd gen is too risky to take pre-orders
[27/01/2015 13:13:10] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: It's the easy route which I avoid. I believe that with our market reputation, selling 0.2 J/GH miners at 0.15 $/GH delivery in 4 months would have been VERY easy. But I'm not doing it. I'm rewarded by you for a "Mix"
[27/01/2015 13:14:09] dogie: at the same time you're asking me to reward you for something you've not done yet, like giving you a world record in 100m because you've told me you're going to run it in 8 seconds, before you run it
[27/01/2015 13:14:22] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: come'on
[27/01/2015 13:14:30] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: Are we taking pre-orders
[27/01/2015 13:14:35] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: Are we intend to take pre-orders
[27/01/2015 13:14:52] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: Let's say we're closing Spondoolies and just selling 2nd gen gear.
[27/01/2015 13:15:00] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: Are we MIX or not
[27/01/2015 13:15:11] dogie: still mix
[27/01/2015 13:16:39] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: I don't have anything more to say. Your guide is incorrect and so are your criteria.
[27/01/2015 13:17:02] dogie: the rating is based on the criteria, they cant both be wrong
[27/01/2015 13:17:35] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: We're not doing " 8/20   = Mixed - sells some in hand hardware and some preorders, or utilises split payments"
[27/01/2015 13:17:45] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: We're   20/20 = No - does not use preorders
[27/01/2015 13:18:00] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: You've changed the criteria after the fact, specifically to give us mix
[27/01/2015 13:18:04] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: I find it unethical.
[27/01/2015 13:20:39] dogie: its meaning has never changed, I clarified the ratings so there was no doubt in the last round
[27/01/2015 13:21:01] Guy - Spondoolies - CEO - +3: I said what I had to say. Unethical.
[27/01/2015 13:33:36]  dogie: how can it be unethical, there is no reason for me to lie or falsify it either way