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Author Topic: Miami arresting people for use of Bitcoin  (Read 5683 times)
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February 09, 2014, 10:26:25 PM
 #1

Did Miami just starting to arrest people over Bitcoin?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-09/miami-bitcoin-arrests-may-be-first-state-prosecution.html

                                                                               
                 
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February 09, 2014, 10:28:16 PM
 #2

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.
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February 09, 2014, 10:45:07 PM
 #3

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.


No, they arrested people for buying and selling bitcoins, and are calling it money laundering. 

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February 09, 2014, 10:47:23 PM
 #4

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.


No, they arrested people for buying and selling bitcoins, and are calling it money laundering. 

Wrong. Those persons involved wanted/tried to use bitcoins for money laundering.

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February 09, 2014, 10:50:19 PM
 #5

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.


No, they arrested people for buying and selling bitcoins, and are calling it money laundering. 

Wrong. Those persons involved wanted/tried to use bitcoins for money laundering.
Wrong.  Those persons involved sold bitcoin to undercover officers who told them they are going to commit crimes with bitcoin and the people still sold it to them.  That and selling too many bitcoins means having to register as an MSB.

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February 09, 2014, 11:08:45 PM
 #6

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.


No, they arrested people for buying and selling bitcoins, and are calling it money laundering. 

Wrong. Those persons involved wanted/tried to use bitcoins for money laundering.
Wrong.  Those persons involved sold bitcoin to undercover officers who told them they are going to commit crimes with bitcoin and the people still sold it to them.  That and selling too many bitcoins means having to register as an MSB.

So this is a good thing, right?  Bitcoins are considered a financial tool where people must registered as a MSB if the volume is too high and must comply to AML regulations?

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February 09, 2014, 11:13:57 PM
 #7

Wrong.  Those persons involved sold bitcoin to undercover officers who told them they are going to commit crimes with bitcoin and the people still sold it to them.  That and selling too many bitcoins means having to register as an MSB.
Wrong. I'm not in a country where such thing is necessary.

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February 09, 2014, 11:21:49 PM
 #8

Glad to see that illegal money operations are seized and the guys behind are being prosecuted. If Bitcoin should have a chance growing up, we need to stop those youngsters that think they can get away with transactions in Bitcoin that are not allowed in fiat-money.
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February 10, 2014, 03:05:21 PM
 #9

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.


No, they arrested people for buying and selling bitcoins, and are calling it money laundering. 

Wrong. Those persons involved wanted/tried to use bitcoins for money laundering.
Wrong.  Those persons involved sold bitcoin to undercover officers who told them they are going to commit crimes with bitcoin and the people still sold it to them.  That and selling too many bitcoins means having to register as an MSB.

He's only being charged with the latter.  The former is just to bias it.  I call that entrapment anyway.  He traveled to the location and was ready to exchange before they claimed how they were going to spend it.  In any case, it's not clear that exchanging a currency with someone expressing an illegal intent to use said currency is illegal.  What would of been a clear case of money laundering would of been the undercover claiming that it was drug profits they were trying to wash.  Now, that is far different than just saying how you think you might spend something. 

Nevertheless, it is clearly wise to back out of a trade when they say something that doesn't sound right, if you can.  Until we know the details of this case, though, we don't even know if backing out was an option.  Quite often they'll throw that in after the transaction is initiated. 

When the case is closed, someone should interview the accused. 

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February 11, 2014, 01:42:31 AM
Last edit: February 11, 2014, 02:51:30 AM by TheButterZone
 #10

When every victimless action is made a "crime", anyone can be prosecuted for "money laundering".

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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February 11, 2014, 01:51:54 AM
 #11

Did Miami just starting to arrest people over Bitcoin?

Only if they're operating businesses without the required license or conspiring to launder money for bad guys.

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February 11, 2014, 02:06:49 AM
 #12

The report is a lot more clear than the newspaper article.  It seems fairly clear that the seller really didn't have problems engaging in illegal activity.  The fact that he said that he would think about selling the stolen credit cards for BTC makes his case even worse.

That's not to say that the police weren't participating in entrapment, but perhaps there was other evidence not listed in this report that made them think that they were already involved in illegal activity.

It is clear that way more people know about Bitcoin now than a year ago, and you can't really get away with the sorts of things that you might have been able to get away with in the past.

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February 11, 2014, 02:08:17 AM
 #13

Nevertheless, it is clearly wise to back out of a trade when they say something that doesn't sound right, if you can.  Until we know the details of this case, though, we don't even know if backing out was an option.  Quite often they'll throw that in after the transaction is initiated.  

What would happen if the undercover agent showed a gun when their mark tries to back out or makes a threat and that results in them accepting the deal. Would they still be convicted?
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February 11, 2014, 02:14:00 AM
 #14

The report is a lot more clear than the newspaper article.  It seems fairly clear that the seller really didn't have problems engaging in illegal activity.  The fact that he said that he would think about selling the stolen credit cards for BTC makes his case even worse.

That's not to say that the police weren't participating in entrapment, but perhaps there was other evidence not listed in this report that made them think that they were already involved in illegal activity.

It is clear that way more people know about Bitcoin now than a year ago, and you can't really get away with the sorts of things that you might have been able to get away with in the past.


firstly you should be reminded that the report is unilateral

but it should be fairly, if not reasonably, obvious that the "I'll think about it" was merely a brush off.  

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February 11, 2014, 02:15:06 AM
 #15

can't believe it!

it's pure provocation, Espinoza did nothing!

fashistic country full of provocateurs, in some counties provocations like this one are interpreted like criminal act! Its prohibited! Police can't inspire or lead people in to crime!

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February 11, 2014, 02:21:55 AM
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why do the police keep wasting our tax money? here's an idea: stop arresting pot smokers, prostitutes and bitcoin sellers and catch the fucking murderers and gang bangers.

Night gathers, and now my bitcoinwisdom watch begins.
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February 11, 2014, 02:23:43 AM
 #17

The report is a lot more clear than the newspaper article.  It seems fairly clear that the seller really didn't have problems engaging in illegal activity.  The fact that he said that he would think about selling the stolen credit cards for BTC makes his case even worse.

That's not to say that the police weren't participating in entrapment, but perhaps there was other evidence not listed in this report that made them think that they were already involved in illegal activity.

It is clear that way more people know about Bitcoin now than a year ago, and you can't really get away with the sorts of things that you might have been able to get away with in the past.


Thinking about something is now a crime?
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February 11, 2014, 02:52:36 AM
Last edit: February 12, 2014, 02:45:33 AM by TheButterZone
 #18

Yes: thoughtcrime.

Nevertheless, it is clearly wise to back out of a trade when they say something that doesn't sound right, if you can.  Until we know the details of this case, though, we don't even know if backing out was an option.  Quite often they'll throw that in after the transaction is initiated.  

What would happen if the undercover agent showed a gun when their mark tries to back out or makes a threat and that results in them accepting the deal. Would they still be convicted?

Nobody is allowed to feel mortal fear of law enforcement officers, even if they don't know that the person with a gun is law enforcement officer and thinks they'll get shot by a criminal (or his accomplice) for not cooperating.

The gun didn't even necessarily have to be shown, if it "printed" (you could see the outline of the gun and/or holster through clothing).

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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February 11, 2014, 04:17:46 AM
 #19




but it should be fairly, if not reasonably, obvious that the "I'll think about it" was merely a brush off.  



Of course...god some people are dumb.
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February 11, 2014, 04:35:26 AM
 #20

No, they arrested people for money laundering and finCEN violations.


No, they arrested people for buying and selling bitcoins, and are calling it money laundering. 


No they arrested people who sold bitcoin without a money service business license. YOU CAN NOT SELL BITCOIN FOR FIAT, if you do you become a money transmitter and can be breaking anti money laundering laws.

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