Bitcoin Forum
May 20, 2024, 11:18:48 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Can we please stop saying that it is improbable to generate an inuse key?  (Read 3519 times)
HeliKopterBen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 622
Merit: 500



View Profile
March 11, 2014, 06:22:12 PM
 #41

If you actually do generate a duplicate key, I would be much more concerned about a flaw in the software used to generate the key.  Scrap that program and use a different method to generate keys.

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
Ekaros
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 500



View Profile
March 11, 2014, 06:27:42 PM
 #42

If you actually do generate a duplicate key, I would be much more concerned about a flaw in the software used to generate the key.  Scrap that program and use a different method to generate keys.

How many of us have a way to generate secure(private) random data or even sufficiently random seeds... And I'm using random here for not pseudo-random that is seeded and then algorithmically generated...


12pA5nZB5AoXZaaEeoxh5bNqUGXwUUp3Uv
http://firstbits.com/1qdiz
Feel free to help poor student!
bountygiver
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 100
Merit: 10


View Profile
March 11, 2014, 06:35:25 PM
 #43

If you did generated an in use wallet private key.
You just hit the world's lowest probability to win jackpot and you deserve to keep the money. :p
It's easier to get struck by lightning 10 days in a row than generating an in use wallet key.
http://what-if.xkcd.com/2/
Still easier than guessing all SAT questions right though.

12dXW87Hhz3gUsXDDCB8rjJPsWdQzjwnm6
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079


Gerald Davis


View Profile
March 11, 2014, 07:08:36 PM
 #44

How many of us have a way to generate secure(private) random data or even sufficiently random seeds... And I'm using random here for not pseudo-random that is seeded and then algorithmically generated...

Roll a bunch of dice?  Flip a bunch of coins?  It may not be particularly useful for random wallets where a new random private value is needed for each private key however it would be fairly easy to do for a deterministic wallet.
freequant
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 11, 2014, 07:13:35 PM
 #45

Because I'm sure we're all aware that due to the nature of random number generators, and implementations, the more widespread the adoption of Bitcoin, the more likely it is that we will see key collisions.

Are we even sure that ECDSA even has an unbiased distribution?
True, one should always speak in relative terms. You have as many chances of having a collision as you have chances of being killed by a 22-carat pure gold meteorite at the time you generate your key.
Beliathon
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1000


https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU


View Profile WWW
March 11, 2014, 08:22:27 PM
 #46

Because I'm sure we're all aware that due to the nature of random number generators, and implementations, the more widespread the adoption of Bitcoin, the more likely it is that we will see key collisions.

Are we even sure that ECDSA even has an unbiased distribution?
True, one should always speak in relative terms. You have as many chances of having a collision as you have chances of being killed by a 22-carat pure gold meteorite at the time you generate your key.

Or of being struck by lightning in the same spot 10,000 times in a row for seven weeks straight. And surviving to tell the tale.


Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
Lauda
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965


Terminated.


View Profile WWW
March 11, 2014, 09:26:29 PM
 #47

Or of being struck by lightning in the same spot 10,000 times in a row for seven weeks straight. And surviving to tell the tale.
Can we stop saying that it's improbable that this will happen?  Cheesy

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
😼 Bitcoin Core (onion)
lnternet
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 299
Merit: 253


View Profile
March 12, 2014, 12:25:23 AM
Last edit: March 12, 2014, 01:20:33 AM by lnternet
 #48

It's 50:50. Either you generate an address that's already in use, or you don't.

1ntemetqbXokPSSkuHH4iuAJRTQMP6uJ9
taturii
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 96
Merit: 10


View Profile
March 12, 2014, 12:51:24 AM
 #49

To make myself clear I've done the calculation of the acumulative probability of a collision as the addresses are generated. This probability increases with the square of the number of generated addrsses. If we consider the most restrictive case: the 160 bit space of the public key hash, a 1% probabiliy of bitcoin addresses collision will be reached when 1.2x10^23 bitcoin addresses are generated. This means that a million machines generating 30 million addresses/second each would need a thousand years to reach a 1% probability of a single collision.
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079


Gerald Davis


View Profile
March 12, 2014, 01:00:10 AM
 #50

To make myself clear I've done the calculation of the acumulative probability of a collision as the addresses are generated. This probability increases with the square of the number of generated addrsses. If we consider the most restrictive case: the 160 bit space of the public key hash, a 1% probabiliy of bitcoin addresses collision will be reached when 1.2x10^23 bitcoin addresses are generated. This means that a million machines generating 30 million addresses/second each would need a thousand years to reach a 1% probability of a single collision.

Of course even that overstates the scenario in the OP which is a "inuse key".  Given the size of the key space in the highly improbable event of a collision it is very likely between two unfunded addresses created by the same mass creating entity.
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!