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Author Topic: The Tea Party are Economic Terrorists  (Read 2194 times)
hugolp
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September 28, 2011, 01:19:04 PM
 #21

Sure, I would love to live through the Great Depression.

You are avoiding answering. A well functioning economy works under price deflation. There are numerous examples through economic history on booming economies under price deflation.

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These two facts are irreconcilable. Hypothetically, yes $5 can be used to pay back a $10 loan, and relies upon circulation. But if prices are falling then circulation diminishes. The state must intervene and increase circulation. It can do this by taxing and spending, and/or print money to drive inflation.

First, I think you want to correct that. Taxing and spending has a different effect than printing money and spending. What you are trying to imply is that there is money missing in the economy and therefore the government must print and spend. Taxing and spending leaves the money supply intact.

Second, money velocity and prices are not directly related. You can have an increase on circulation with a decrease in prices for example.

Third, you are avoiding answering. I explained why you dont need more money to pay debts. If you disagree answer but dont repeat the same without answering.
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Iseree22
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September 28, 2011, 01:43:14 PM
 #22

Sure, I would love to live through the Great Depression.

You are avoiding answering. A well functioning economy works under price deflation. There are numerous examples through economic history on booming economies under price deflation.


I think that my response answers your statement. Hypothetically, you propose, that things will work great under price deflation. Sure there might have been instances throughout history where it has worked. But obviously there has been periods where it didn't. Consequently, some of the greatest periods of human suffering have occurred during or after a depression. So IMO on the whole I would not want a system with an associated catastrophic risk.

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Quote
These two facts are irreconcilable. Hypothetically, yes $5 can be used to pay back a $10 loan, and relies upon circulation. But if prices are falling then circulation diminishes. The state must intervene and increase circulation. It can do this by taxing and spending, and/or print money to drive inflation.

First, I think you want to correct that. Taxing and spending has a different effect than printing money and spending. What you are trying to imply is that there is money missing in the economy and therefore the government must print and spend. Taxing and spending leaves the money supply intact.


What are you talking about?? If a tax is levied on someone with money, and that money is given to someone who needs food, will they spend it and thereby increase circulation??? Yes, they will.

The aim of the game is to increase money exchange. For every exchange in money there is a corresponding real exchange between people, and that is how real wealth is generated.

Quote
Second, money velocity and prices are not directly related. You can have an increase on circulation with a decrease in prices for example.

They are still related, not directly perhaps, but still related.

Quote
Third, you are avoiding answering. I explained why you dont need more money to pay debts. If you disagree answer but dont repeat the same without answering.

Here read;

But if prices are falling then circulation diminishes. The state must intervene and increase circulation. It can do this by taxing and spending, and/or print money to drive inflation.

So if the State is not going to print more money then it must tax and spend to maintain circulation. i.e tax the bank that has lent, and give to the person who owes the debt.

 Learn how modern money really works.  (http://alturl.com/e4hu5) Ctrl-F : 1. What is Money?

How can a State(Country) that creates its own currency run out of Money?? It can't.
hugolp
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September 28, 2011, 02:34:14 PM
 #23

I think that my response answers your statement. Hypothetically, you propose, that things will work great under price deflation. Sure there might have been instances throughout history where it has worked. But obviously there has been periods where it didn't. Consequently, some of the greatest periods of human suffering have occurred during or after a depression. So IMO on the whole I would not want a system with an associated catastrophic risk.

Try to be a bit logic. You dont have to win a discussion with words. We are trying to understand how the economy works, not show who has better rethoric skills.

Lets reduce your argument to absurd. According to your argument we dont want to have price inflation because there was a period of stagflation and you dont want to be associated with catastrophic risk. See how what you said is not really an argument?

The fact that when a bubble pops there is depression and also price deflation does not mean price deflation causes the depression. In fact it is the previous inflationary process that creates the depression. Price deflation is just a natural reaction and is needed for the economy to recover. Price deflation is healthy for the economy (in context).


Quote
What are you talking about?? If a tax is levied on someone with money, and that money is given to someone who needs food, will they spend it and thereby increase circulation??? Yes, they will.

The person that will be taxed will spend less. In aggregate one can say nothing will change much. This is chartalist theory. I dont agree with it. Im just saying what the chartalist say.

Quote
The aim of the game is to increase money exchange. For every exchange in money there is a corresponding real exchange between people, and that is how real wealth is generated.

No. You are referring to the idea that when two people decide to exchange goods they are both better off because of the subjective nature of value. The problem is it only happens if they are both exchanging them voluntarely. If they are exchanging them because the government has imposed violently a monopolly on money and is using that monopolly to depreciate the currency people will just flead the monopollistic currency but they wont be better off.

Quote
They are still related, not directly perhaps, but still related.

Listen, we are here to understand the economy not to win a rethoric constest. Velocity of money and prices dont have a direct relation as you stated earlier. And it is a basic premises of what you said and it being false invalidates your line of reasoning.

Quote
Here read;

But if prices are falling then circulation diminishes.

Not true. As I said earlier there is no direct relation between velocity of money and prices. Prices can be falling and velocity of money increasing. There are examples of this in history.

Your line of reasoning is based on false assumptions and therefore your conclussion is wrong. Credit crunches dont happen for lack of money.

Quote
The state must intervene and increase circulation. It can do this by taxing and spending, and/or print money to drive inflation.

So if the State is not going to print more money then it must tax and spend to maintain circulation. i.e tax the bank that has lent, and give to the person who owes the debt.
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September 28, 2011, 02:43:49 PM
 #24

How you became a Mod is beyond me, there should at-least be a basic English and comprehension test.

If you want to build a Society around deflation, then sure be my guest I'm sure some people will want to live there. It won't bother me, because once deflation sets in I won't have to listen to this drivel.


 Learn how modern money really works.  (http://alturl.com/e4hu5) Ctrl-F : 1. What is Money?

How can a State(Country) that creates its own currency run out of Money?? It can't.
AyeYo
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September 28, 2011, 02:48:12 PM
 #25

How you became a Mod is beyond me, there should at-least be a basic English and comprehension test.

If you want to build a Society around deflation, then sure be my guest I'm sure some people will want to live there. It won't bother me, because once deflation sets in I won't have to listen to this drivel.



Just look at the threads he creates.  The mods around here are hugely ignorant or trolls, often both.  I'd just ignore him.

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hugolp
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September 28, 2011, 02:54:14 PM
 #26

How you became a Mod is beyond me, there should at-least be a basic English and comprehension test.

If you want to build a Society around deflation, then sure be my guest I'm sure some people will want to live there. It won't bother me, because once deflation sets in I won't have to listen to this drivel.

English is not my first language, you dont need to be an asswhole about it. Yes, I make mistakes when I write it, but I think I make the points clear enough.

As for the rest, Im not insecure of my economic knowledge, I am willing to keep discussing about economics whenever you want to. But I mean discussig being honest about it and accepting when you see there is a mistake in your line of though.
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September 28, 2011, 03:04:25 PM
 #27

How you became a Mod is beyond me, there should at-least be a basic English and comprehension test.

Even for a forum about a global/international, multicultural currency? I'm guessing you are American...

Дураки думают что все Американцы,
y que todos los demás
英語のみを話す


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Elwar
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September 29, 2011, 06:08:35 PM
 #28

The Tea Party was started by Ron Paul supporters Dec. 16, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvGS12EoZUE

The whole point was that they were fed up with the establishment media ignoring Ron Paul and pushing their liberal choice, McCain.

The groups continued as Obama brought in his health care scheme.

Then the regular Republicans started showing up thinking that it was an anti-Obama protest. Not understanding where it all started.

Reminds me of when my cousin used to smoke pot and he would throw the seeds out the window. Eventually the seeds grew into a plant and my grandma had some friends over
and they were all intrigued by such a pretty plant. She said she did not know what it was called but gave them each a few leaves to take home.

If only tea partiers knew how the current Tea Party movement got started.

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The Script
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October 02, 2011, 12:33:29 AM
 #29

How you became a Mod is beyond me, there should at-least be a basic English and comprehension test.

Even for a forum about a global/international, multicultural currency? I'm guessing you are American...

Дураки думают что все Американцы,
y que todos los demás
英語のみを話す


 Roll Eyes

If ya don't speak MERican get the fuuuck out.  Them thar foreignurs causing all kinds of problems and takin our jobs!

Regarding the OP, "economic terrorist" is a horrible phrase and is just another way for the government to brand people whose views they don't like.  If you don't agree with the official economic doctrine you're a terrorist.  Terrorists can be killed (assassinated) without trial by jury, even if you are an American citizen.  It doesn't take much imagination to see how horrendous this could get, very quickly. 
hmongotaku
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October 04, 2011, 07:26:58 AM
 #30

I don't really know what this tea party was about, but 3 years ago when I joined it was about not paying taxes and burning the koran. I'd figure they were extreme anarchist conservative local terrorist group. Hence tax party was about not paying the IRS. Now it's a republican front? nice take over.

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