[2018/07/05]5 Countries Establish Group to Fight Cryptocurrency Tax Crime

[janvic31]

5 Countries Establish Group to Fight Cryptocurrency Tax Crime

Source:https://coincodex.com/article/1976/5-countries-establish-group-to-fight-cryptocurrency-tax-crime/

Tax enforcement agencies from the United States, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom have formed J5, an international organization aimed at combating »transnational tax crime«, with cryptocurrency being singled out as an area of focus. Apparently, the formation of J5 was a response to a call to action from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

The press release states:

»We are convinced that offshore structures and financial instruments, where used to commit tax crime and money laundering, are detrimental to the economic, fiscal, and social interests of our countries.«

Since cryptocurrency allows for value to be moved across the world quickly and anonymously (depending on the type of cryptocurrency used and precautions taken by the sender and receiver), it’s no wonder that government agencies are seeing it as a substantial threat. While some regulation and improved enforcement could help the cryptocurrency space mature, the growth and innovation in the sector could be stifled if regulators and tax enforcement agencies go for extreme measures. For now, the specifics of the scope of J5’s activity are still unclear.

Don Fort, the head of the Internal Revenue Service’s Criminal Investigation division, told Forbes that the lack of cooperation between different governments allows criminals to exploit vulnerabilities:

"The J5 aims to break down those walls, build upon individual best practices, and become an operational group that is forward-thinking and can pressurize the global criminal community in ways we could not achieve on our own."

In February, the IRS deployed 10 agents to investigate tax crimes connected with cryptocurrency. The IRS says cryptocurrency can play a role similar to foreign bank accounts when it comes to facilitating tax evasion.

[1713548881]

1713548881

[1713548881]

1713548881

[1713548881]

1713548881

[1713548881]

1713548881

[acheampong64]

hmm...i have always been thinking about this. The government officials will never stay low until ghey find a way to get tax from everything citizens do. So right now, they're focusing on Cryptos...anyway I think cryptocommunity members will prefer this to a ban. We hope they don't overtax us.

[Carlton Banks]

Never. They'll never get even 1 satoshi from me. Ever. Nothing.

[richardsNY]

Tax crime.

People protecting their income and wealth is a crime by law, I constantly need to remind myself of that, which is ridiculous by itself. My worst mistake of the last years was to verify myself at Bitstamp, but I can't change the past and accepted paying due taxes over the coins that were purchased and traded through that exchange. The Coinbase case made me pay tax because there will be a day that Bitstamp and all other exchanges will be forced to hand over data to tax agencies, and maybe that's already the case. You can't take anything for granted when authorities are gaining an upper hand in the centralized ecosystem....

[jjacob]

Previously, off shore tax accounts were the favourite way to hide wealth from governments. With banks now toeing the lines of governments and governments exchanging information amongst each other, this method has been effectively closed. Cryptocurrencies offer a way out. Governments may get together and exchange information about cryptocurrencies, but unless you identify yourself at an exchange, there is nothing they can do.

[hatshepsut93]

Tax crime.

People protecting their income and wealth is a crime by law, I constantly need to remind myself of that, which is ridiculous by itself. My worst mistake of the last years was to verify myself at Bitstamp, but I can't change the past and accepted paying due taxes over the coins that were purchased and traded through that exchange. The Coinbase case made me pay tax because there will be a day that Bitstamp and all other exchanges will be forced to hand over data to tax agencies, and maybe that's already the case. You can't take anything for granted when authorities are gaining an upper hand in the centralized ecosystem....

I'm currently enjoying the fact that my country doesn't care much about cryptocurrencies, aside from a few MP's occasionally proposing bills, so my exchange doesn't report anything to authorities for now. But I have a feeling that by the time I'll decide to sell a big portion of my coins, the laws will be there - no country is going to ignore it forever, it would be too big of a loophole. So, there are three options left to avoid taxes on our precious profits in the future: avoid exchanges and trade p2p, which has huge risks of getting robbed/scammed; hope that BTC will be used as currency so we wouldn't have to sell it; or find a country without huge taxes.

[richardsNY]

So, there are three options left to avoid taxes on our precious profits in the future: avoid exchanges and trade p2p, which has huge risks of getting robbed/scammed; hope that BTC will be used as currency so we wouldn't have to sell it; or find a country without huge taxes.

Yes. I personally aim to not have to sell anything in the future, which is the safest possible way to tackle the whole issue. I have done a couple of P2P trades, gladly with people that I know, but it still felt somewhat weird, especially if you think about how much weirder it would feel when you do that with random people. It's way more difficult nowadays to find honest business than it was years ago -- we as holders are walking targets and pretty easy to empty once located. If you exclude P2P trades, what else would you do with your unreported wealth in case you legally want to spend it, to buy a house for example?

[BitHodler]

If you exclude P2P trades, what else would you do with your unreported wealth in case you legally want to spend it, to buy a house for example?

That's like playing Russian roulette with your capital. If at any time you legitimately try to spend capital that has never been declared, you have some explaining to do about how you got it and why you didn't declare it.

If you haven't used your coins in any way, and that for years, you could say that you miraculously gained back access to your private keys, but you'll be subject to tax from that point.

In all cases you will end up paying tax, unless you just want to get high on your massive on paper wealth that you won't ever be able to spend or use in a legal way. Things aren't easy for people fitting in that category.

[Carlton Banks]

If you exclude P2P trades, what else would you do with your unreported wealth in case you legally want to spend it, to buy a house for example?

That's like playing Russian roulette with your capital. If at any time you legitimately try to spend capital that has never been declared, you have some explaining to do about how you got it and why you didn't declare it.

If you haven't used your coins in any way, and that for years, you could say that you miraculously gained back access to your private keys, but you'll be subject to tax from that point.

In all cases you will end up paying tax, unless you just want to get high on your massive on paper wealth that you won't ever be able to spend or use in a legal way. Things aren't easy for people fitting in that category.

It's simple: whoever wants capital gains tax from you must prove there was a gain. Without a paper trail, there's no evidence. Can you think of how to make sure that even if someone who sells e.g. property to you  provides Bitcoin transaction information, then there will be no way to prove the money you used was actually taxable? I can.

And there's an even simpler alternative: don't spend your money in jurisdictions where capital gains taxes exist, there are a few.

[BitHodler]

It's simple: whoever wants capital gains tax from you must prove there was a gain. Without a paper trail, there's no evidence. Can you think of how to make sure that even if someone who sells e.g. property to you  provides Bitcoin transaction information, then there will be no way to prove the money you used was actually taxable? I can.

And there's an even simpler alternative: don't spend your money in jurisdictions where capital gains taxes exist, there are a few.

If you dig deep enough there surely will be a way to avoid paying taxes, but the question is how many people are willing to dig that deep, and how many people find it worthwhile to keep looking for alternative routes?

Not everyone thinks like you Carlton Banks. In most cases people choose the easiest and least bumpy road to walk on, and that's paying due taxes. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but it's the reality when it comes to the mass.

Let's say I am a whale with 1000BTC and I'm looking to cash out half of that without nuking a large part of it by paying tax. What jurisdictions are there where crypto capital gains tax isn't obligatory?

[1Referee]

Not everyone thinks like you Carlton Banks. In most cases people choose the easiest and least bumpy road to walk on, and that's paying due taxes. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but it's the reality when it comes to the mass.

That's exactly the reason the average joes are sinking down year after year while the elite gets richer and richer. If you are not willing to take an extra step or two then you can just as easily hand all your money over to the government directly.

No one in the world has the right to claim whatever percentage of your income, wealth or gains. There is no difference between a blatant criminal kidnapping you to demand ransom and the government throwing you in jail till you pay what they think you owe them. Don't support these practices, it's nasty. All paying tax does is incentivize governments to keep doing it, because you'll pay. It works, why should they stop? It's up to you to stop it and not be a sheeple for ever.

[Carlton Banks]

That's exactly the reason the average joes are sinking down year after year while the elite gets richer and richer. If you are not willing to take an extra step or two then you can just as easily hand all your money over to the government directly.

No one in the world has the right to claim whatever percentage of your income, wealth or gains. There is no difference between a blatant criminal kidnapping you to demand ransom and the government throwing you in jail till you pay what they think you owe them. Don't support these practices, it's nasty. All paying tax does is incentivize governments to keep doing it, because you'll pay. It works, why should they stop? It's up to you to stop it and not be a sheeple for ever.

If governments did what they say, I'd pay. I'd help them. But they don't, so I'm not paying them.

They can call me a criminal all they want, it's a simple case of a group of corrupt malfeasants complaining I won't give them money so that they can use it to commit immoral acts. If that makes me the bad person, then I don't want to live in "society" of people that support that anyway (the sort of people who will exasperatedly say "nothing can be done about corrupt politicians", yet I'm doing it, and they're too afraid to)

In most cases people choose the easiest and least bumpy road to walk on, and that's paying due taxes.

"The fearful die a thousand deaths. The brave only die once". You only get one life, choose carefully how you live it

[1Referee]

If governments did what they say, I'd pay. I'd help them. But they don't, so I'm not paying them.

They can call me a criminal all they want, it's a simple case of a group of corrupt malfeasants complaining I won't give them money so that they can use it to commit immoral acts. If that makes me the bad person, then I don't want to live in "society" of people that support that anyway (the sort of people who will exasperatedly say "there's nothing the can be done about corrupt politicians", yet I'm doing it, and they're too afraid to)

Can't agree more. Some times it feels lonely being surrounded by brainwashed sheeps thinking that those not willing to let go of their hard earned money easily, are harming the country because that money can't be invested for the better anymore. Funny thing, or maybe not, is that it has gone so far that your neighbours snitch on you if they for whatever odd reason suspect you of tax evasion. The government must be happy with such a voluntary shill army.

[Coffee135]

If governments did what they say, I'd pay. I'd help them. But they don't, so I'm not paying them.

They can call me a criminal all they want, it's a simple case of a group of corrupt malfeasants complaining I won't give them money so that they can use it to commit immoral acts. If that makes me the bad person, then I don't want to live in "society" of people that support that anyway (the sort of people who will exasperatedly say "there's nothing the can be done about corrupt politicians", yet I'm doing it, and they're too afraid to)

Can't agree more. Some times it feels lonely being surrounded by brainwashed sheeps thinking that those not willing to let go of their hard earned money easily, are harming the country because that money can't be invested for the better anymore. Funny thing, or maybe not, is that it has gone so far that your neighbours snitch on you if they for whatever odd reason suspect you of tax evasion. The government must be happy with such a voluntary shill army.

I support you completely. But I think you're wrong about the neighbors knocking because they're brainwashed. No, it's just human greed. They can't accept that one of their neighbors has more money than they do. This is used by governments. They specifically throw up versions to justify the snitches. "Divide and conquer"

[bambazamba]

That is such a shame . These countries are ready to fight for something that is not even a matter of huge concern .
Whereas there are so many real world problems  out there that needs such type of grouping and agenda .
Ask them if they ever joined hands against terrorists.