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Author Topic: Lightning Network Discussion Thread  (Read 5815 times)
JayJuanGee
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September 21, 2018, 06:59:58 PM
Merited by DooMAD (2)
 #261

Take a breath Aliashraf. ...
I'm cool. Mind your business.

Quote

DoomMad's point about attempting to get x20 on lightning for every on chain transaction is particularly interesting..  

x20 is a lot, but not enough to sort us out to VISA levels.. but if you then throw in the Channel Factories...

Channel factories allow you to create the Lightning channels without going on chain. So we might expect 20 Lightning channels from a single  Channel factory.. and 20 transactions from each Lightning Channel, before requiring an on-chain transaction.

Now we have x20 x20 = x400.

So the current 10 txn/s on Bitcoin, with nothing more than clever scripting, could actually represent 4000 txn/s off chain.

That's more like it. And NOW if you did double the blocksize (or halve the blocktime..), to allow 20 txns/s on-chain, we'd be getting 8000 txns/s off-chain.

What's not to like
Ok enjoy LN, I'd like to stick with bitcoin.

Lightning network is pegged to bitcoin, you dumb ass, and it is voluntary whether you want to use such second layer, as you seem to already know.

As Lightning network expands, it is likely that a lot of the LN naysayers are going to end up using LN because it is going to become more convenient in terms of fees and transaction times, and just the expansion of the space in that direction.  Of course, this could take 5-10 years before channels becomes so wide-spread that even the disinformation spreading fucktards, such as yourself, are kind of forced kicking and screaming into a their own denial participation in which they assert that they were "never really opposed to LN" blah blah blah.. reframing history... as shill trolltards frequently tend to do.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
For a 'legendary' in btctalk you are amazingly ignorant.  Grin

Yes....  Such assessment coming from chicken littles like you carries a lot of weight.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes    Tongue

We are now using fiat. Does it make fiat the ultimate monetary system?  

Yes.  Various forums of fiat including the USD are dominant, yet we are learning and likely to recognize that they are in competition with more potentially sound systems.... such as bitcoin.  Maybe even some of the pump and dump shit coins might prove to be more sound than the dollar?  We will see how this plays out with the passage of time, but there also might be periods of rapid migration away from some of the fiat systems and into bitcoin, so long as bitcoin remains seemingly vastly superior in terms of its soundness.

Google alone  switches almost 50% of Internet page referral traffic, is it the true Internet?

Yes.  Google currently plays an important role in the internet, and it could remain dominant in the space for a considerable amount of time, even though the concept of the internet is much broader as your seemingly rhetorical self-evident question seems to suggest.

I have no idea whether retards like you would succeed to bury bitcoin under multiple layers of stupidity (LN, factories, banks, whatever) or not, but I'm aware of the fact that ignorance has always a definite chance to get mainstream at least for a while, but how in the hell it would help covering the ugly face of an illiterate person who ruins a beautiful idea?

I have very little influence in the overall direction of this thing you call bitcoin with its multiple layers, but as long as I breath I have the ability to express various opinions, including participation in forums and threads like these.

Frequently, i attempt to make comments about what is and to describe its seeming progress and direction.  It seems to be a rougher row to hoe if you are trying to change the path that bitcoin is already on.... and to suggest some better direction.  Maybe you want to submit a BIP?  Probably not, you just want to complain without attempting to fix whatever problem(s) you are supposedly complaining about in your distracting and irrelevant talking points.

I won't engage in this discussion anymore because people like you (in the most optimistic scenario) are not able to generalize and think abstract.  

That's good.  You don't seem to be providing much helpful substance anyhow in your presentation of outlandish scenarios, and also your seeming failure to recognize that lightning network is a voluntary supplement to bitcoin rather than some kind of compulsory dead end.  So it is good NOT to have to play around with your academic abstractness and presentation of low probablility pie in the sky scenarios that are neither based on real happenings nor likely happenings.

In dirty scenarios, we are mostly dealing with paid trolls, hired by bitcoin whales who are against any discussion and reasoning practice in the community because it may hurt the reputation of bitcoin and they may lose a few bucks.   It is why they have started the infamous "anti-FUD" campaign in public sphere by assassination of advocates and authors.

Either way, stay tuned, we got still some cards to play, obviously other than arguing with you.  Wink

Yes.. you are misleadingly attempting to suggest that bitcoin has some kind of large propaganda machine and money dedicated to marketing - unlike banksters, government, alt coin pumpers and other anti-bitcoin disinformation campaigns and you seem to be part of the ladder rather than the former.

Bitcoin seems to be driven largely by fundamentals and soundness rather than campaigns, but surely it does not hurt to have some bitcoin advocates out there fighting the good (pro-bitcoin) fight, and likely they are hardly compensated individually (or as a team) like what seems to be taking place with others who campaign against bitcoin and are either decently funded by establishment money or feel it is in the interest of their pump and dump shitcoin project to portray bitcoin as broken and believe that their shit project will do better if it is portrayed as a fixer of bitcoin problems (that are largely either make believe or exaggerated).

It seems quite likely to me in the long run, value is going to gravitate into bitcoin and the misinformation is going to be sussed out by the sound money value of bitcoin, and even you are likely not so dumb to be unable to recognize that phenomenon (so hopefully, even though you seem to be a paid shill, on a personal level,  you have been smart enough to stack some bitcoin or at least to hedge some of it in contrary to your other fantastical abstract ideas).  So, even if it might take 20 to 50 years for the various misinformation campaigns to play out, the most sound of the monies is likely to gravitate the value, and at this point the most sound money seems to be bitcoin.. surely someday, if the most sound money changes, then I will personally adjust my investment in that direction, but currently, the most of the sound monies continues to be bitcoin, which includes a combination of the "on blockchain" solutions and various secondary layers that are in the works, including lightning network.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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September 21, 2018, 10:16:01 PM
 #262

I really what to ask this question please..
Is the lightening network known as segwit?
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September 22, 2018, 05:17:21 PM
 #263

I really what to ask this question please..
Is the lightening network known as segwit?

Segwit was a fork to the core bitcoin protocol that made implementation of lightning less difficult. Lightning network is a new protocol layer that is completely detached from the bitcoin protocol which rides on top of the core bitcoin network and allows the forwarding of secure redeemable but as of yet unredeemed IOUs that can be treated as bitcoin.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
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October 03, 2018, 04:39:49 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #264

Looks like Electrum will support LN very soon, this surely will boost LN usage since majority of Bitcoiner who own desktop use Electrum.

https://twitter.com/ElectrumWallet/status/1047498819133480961

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October 03, 2018, 06:31:13 PM
 #265

Looks like Electrum will support LN very soon, this surely will boost LN usage since majority of Bitcoiner who own desktop use Electrum.

I wonder if Electrum is going to support receiving funds over the Lightning Network. LND already supports "disabling" channels which means that the routing problem should not be present anymore. This solution should be implemented in Electrum as well in order to avoid the increase of offline channels which might cause problems while sending payments. I have just watched the end of the event's stream and it was mentioned that a new version with the Lightning Network support should be released in a few months. There is no need to rush.

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October 11, 2018, 11:22:29 AM
 #266

I understand very little about lightening network! I do know that for lightening network, some transactions are taken off chain! Question that bogs me most is how do the transactions get reconciled/synced with on-chain to avoid double spending issues?? and a unified record on the blockchain itself!!

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October 11, 2018, 04:45:24 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), JayJuanGee (1)
 #267

I do know that for lightening network, some transactions are taken off chain!

Every single transaction made on the Lightning Network is an off-chain one. In order to start using the Lightning Network you have to open a channel with someone else using specialised software. Opening and closing channel requires broadcasting on-chain transactions.

how do the transactions get reconciled/synced with on-chain to avoid double spending issues??

The Lightning Network works thanks to Hashed TimeLock Contracts. The current penalty system requires both nodes to be online once every day (144 blocks) by default (it can be negotiated) to check whether or not the other party attempted to cheat. If so, a penalty transaction is being broadcast. Off-chain funds can't be spend on-chain since they are locked up in a multi-signature address. Everything is settled down after the channel closure.

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November 08, 2018, 02:46:48 AM
 #268

I belive that its LN that its helping holding the 6k. Everyone is beliving that this will make an YUGE impact in bitcoin future. If this goes wrong it will be a massive dump!

I would like to have an eye on LN developement. Is there any site to look?
Is there any issue/problem thats is not solved yet?
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November 08, 2018, 05:40:30 AM
 #269

I belive that its LN that its helping holding the 6k. Everyone is beliving that this will make an YUGE impact in bitcoin future. If this goes wrong it will be a massive dump!

I would like to have an eye on LN developement. Is there any site to look?
Is there any issue/problem thats is not solved yet?

    
Flaws in LN (Lightning Network).  Smiley
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5031079.0
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November 08, 2018, 08:07:28 AM
 #270

I belive that its LN that its helping holding the 6k. Everyone is beliving that this will make an YUGE impact in bitcoin future. If this goes wrong it will be a massive dump!
LN is not the only scaling technology for Bitcoin, albeit it's the most advanced one - all other are concepts, whitepapers or early testnet alphas (e.g. Drivechain). But if LN "goes wrong" then that doesn't mean Bitcoin will be doomed. And LN has already advanced to the point where it can be used for small amounts - so the possibility for it to "go wrong" gets smaller and smaller.

Quote
I would like to have an eye on LN developement. Is there any site to look?
Simply look at the development repos and other sources:

https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair (Eclair)
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd (LND/Neutrino)
https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning (C-Lightning)
https://blog.lightning.engineering/ (Blog of the LND developers)
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev (Lightning Development Mailing List)

I need to retake my testing of Neutrino/LND. Wink

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November 13, 2018, 08:41:09 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #271

I belive that its LN that its helping holding the 6k. Everyone is beliving that this will make an YUGE impact in bitcoin future. If this goes wrong it will be a massive dump!

I would like to have an eye on LN developement. Is there any site to look?
Is there any issue/problem thats is not solved yet?

    
Flaws in LN (Lightning Network).  Smiley
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5031079.0

Is this another attempt to put the blame on the developers for market crashes? degenLove, no the Lightning Network is NOT "helping holding the 6k". Plus no, Lightning MIGHT make a huge impact or it won't, but the "market" is not betting its hopes in it.

Bitcoin has already proven itself to be sounder money than fiat.


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November 13, 2018, 06:36:34 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #272

Proposals which were accepted to the Lightning Network Specification 1.1 are available here. The most notable ones (for an average user) are dual funded channels + proper advertising of such channels, Replace-By-Fee for funding transaction (not available for uncooperative close for obvious reasons), channel splicing, multi-path payments, increased maxchannel capacity and hidden destinations. More information can be found in the link above.

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November 15, 2018, 11:47:52 AM
 #273

Port forwarding doesn't work on those bad IP's (I can't upload data to my peers). Does it make a difference for running a LN node?

Yes, port forwarding makes a difference. But lightning doesn't need lots of listening nodes to add resilience to the network in the same way bitcoin does, but setting it up without port forwarding/listening only really benefits you (you will basically have a node that only your manual connected peers will see, the rest of the network will be unaware your node exists, so you won't be routing any payments). This is still useful; you can still set up channels, and monitor those channels.

If it does is it possible to connect to someone else's node to run my LN node?

Not sure if any of the lightning clients (clightning or lnd) allow this yet. Same applies, you can't accept incoming connections without port forwarding.

One solution is to use tor and a hidden service IP. The tor onion IP will be static, and tor client forwards ports. You can do the same for your own bitcoin node too, probably a good idea to investigate if it's better to use separate .onion IP addresses for the lightning node and the bitcoin node (I would expect the answer is "yes", for the sake of the privacy of people who would route payments through your lightning node). That would help both networks.

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December 05, 2018, 02:26:24 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #274

I belive that its LN that its helping holding the 6k. Everyone is beliving that this will make an YUGE impact in bitcoin future. If this goes wrong it will be a massive dump!

I would like to have an eye on LN developement. Is there any site to look?
Is there any issue/problem thats is not solved yet?

LN is a layer two solution, meaning it is built on top of & completely separate from the Bitcoin blockchain that has been running for almost 10 years. While the Lightning Network may help increase adoption, its impact will likely not be seen for at least a year or two. The network is growing at a faster rate every day. LND is hard to run for regular users right now. Right now, to implement a node using all the features available (connecting to peers, opening channels, funding channels, making sure you are properly connected to peers & the network) you must be fluent in some sort of command line interface, understand internet trafficking, IP addresses, and be comfortable using and reading information from a terminal. It may be scary at first, but with a drive to learn on your own, perseverance, and a little bravery, I know you can do it!

If that doesn't sound appealing to you, there are applications are being built with a user interface, making it feel much safer and less chaotic.

If the lightning network failed right now, I don't think it would result in a massive dump. I think this because not very many people are using it & regular people are not paying attention to Bitcoin right now. If it failed during the craziness of December 2017, I think it would result in a massive dump, because people who buy at the top don't understand the technology and they would think it was actually Bitcoin that had failed. However, we know that it is a layer two solution and is completely separate from the standard Bitcoin Blockchain.


As for resources to keep an eye on development:

These are the three main BOLT protocol implementations

This is one resource for news from the applications built on top of these implementations

Here you can see Lightning Nodes and their Channels

And finally here is an extra resource to keep you busy and learning for days!


When you are hungry for more come back here!  Cool
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December 06, 2018, 08:45:56 AM
 #275

There is $1,800,000 in there. We should have a campaign underway to make Bitcoin merchants, casino gambling sites, and exchanges play with the Lightning Network. Cool

Where can we find some good guides for merchants to set up Lightning to experiment with, and what are the channels to find community tech support?

https://www.longhash.com/news/lightnings-crazy-fast-growth

Quote

Today, over 450 BTC ($1,800,000) is held in Lightning Network channels -- a 100x increase in channel capacity since February. In addition, there are currently over 16,000 channels on main net -- a 16x increase in channels since February.




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December 06, 2018, 03:27:54 PM
 #276

There is $1,800,000 in there. We should have a campaign underway to make Bitcoin merchants, casino gambling sites, and exchanges play with the Lightning Network. Cool

Where can we find some good guides for merchants to set up Lightning to experiment with, and what are the channels to find community tech support?

https://www.longhash.com/news/lightnings-crazy-fast-growth

Quote

Today, over 450 BTC ($1,800,000) is held in Lightning Network channels -- a 100x increase in channel capacity since February. In addition, there are currently over 16,000 channels on main net -- a 16x increase in channels since February.



I thought that the lightning network had both public and private channels, so in that regard, is 450 BTC a reflection of the total size?  Forgive the newbie-ness of my question, but I really am unclear about how the private versus public aspects can be tracked and what kinds of numbers are reflected by such.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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December 06, 2018, 05:06:06 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #277

I thought that the lightning network had both public and private channels, so in that regard, is 450 BTC a reflection of the total size?  Forgive the newbie-ness of my question, but I really am unclear about how the private versus public aspects can be tracked and what kinds of numbers are reflected by such.

Track LN network capacity is pretty easy since all you need to do is check for 2-of-2 multi-sig HLTC transaction on bitcoin network. It's simple and effective method as almost nobody use such transaction format.

Private network/channel only prevent your transaction tracked from services such as https://1ml.com/, but it's not really private if you make channel directly to public node. CMIIW.

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December 06, 2018, 08:58:35 PM
 #278

I thought that the lightning network had both public and private channels, so in that regard, is 450 BTC a reflection of the total size?  Forgive the newbie-ness of my question, but I really am unclear about how the private versus public aspects can be tracked and what kinds of numbers are reflected by such.

Track LN network capacity is pretty easy since all you need to do is check for 2-of-2 multi-sig HLTC transaction on bitcoin network. It's simple and effective method as almost nobody use such transaction format.

Private network/channel only prevent your transaction tracked from services such as https://1ml.com/, but it's not really private if you make channel directly to public node. CMIIW.

So the punchline is that the 450-ish BTC on the lightning network is a largely accurate assessment of its full capacity?

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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December 07, 2018, 03:27:21 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #279

So the punchline is that the 450-ish BTC on the lightning network is a largely accurate assessment of its full capacity?

AFAIK yes, even though there might be another way to track LN capacity that i dont know.
But FYI, it doesn't reflect amount of BTC you can sent through LN since that depends on amount of BTC that can send/receive on each channel which used on your payment routing path.

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December 07, 2018, 08:28:40 AM
 #280

There is $1,800,000 in there. We should have a campaign underway to make Bitcoin merchants, casino gambling sites, and exchanges play with the Lightning Network. Cool

Where can we find some good guides for merchants to set up Lightning to experiment with, and what are the channels to find community tech support?

https://www.longhash.com/news/lightnings-crazy-fast-growth

Quote

Today, over 450 BTC ($1,800,000) is held in Lightning Network channels -- a 100x increase in channel capacity since February. In addition, there are currently over 16,000 channels on main net -- a 16x increase in channels since February.



I thought that the lightning network had both public and private channels, so in that regard, is 450 BTC a reflection of the total size?  Forgive the newbie-ness of my question, but I really am unclear about how the private versus public aspects can be tracked and what kinds of numbers are reflected by such.

I'm confused, private channels? Aren't all open channels detected by checking the nodes of the Lightning Network? https://rompert.com/recksplorer/

I am also a Lightning newbie. Haha.


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