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Author Topic: Lightning Network Discussion Thread  (Read 24347 times)
franky1
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January 06, 2019, 01:42:04 PM
 #301

"trust minimalized"

lol im laughing

i think more people really need to actually research LN. its getting obvious who has actually used it and who is just repeating the propaganda promotion material

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January 06, 2019, 02:17:26 PM
 #302

"trust minimalized"

lol im laughing

i think more people really need to actually research LN. its getting obvious who has actually used it and who is just repeating the propaganda promotion material

I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that the experience was like dealing with banks. 
I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that it is a utopian fantasy.
I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that their consensus was bypassed.
I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that it is a separate network that supports more than once blockchain.

All that repeated propaganda material is coming from you.

But as long as we agree on the part where people should try using Lightning before forming their own conclusions, rather than simply take your word or mine for it, then that's okay.  However, much like Bitcoin itself, it's only responsible to point out that Lightning is still not at the stage where it is ready for mainstream adoption.  It may be best for most users to wait a while before taking the plunge.  It's also important for users to learn about the differences between sending transactions via LN compared to the standard way of transacting before getting involved.  The security model is different.  Lightning is still beta software.  Users should experiment with only small amounts of BTC, or other compatible cryptocurrency, until LN is more mature.

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January 06, 2019, 02:33:25 PM
Merited by DooMAD (2)
 #303

 Lightning is still beta software.  Users should experiment with only small amounts of BTC, or other compatible cryptocurrency, until LN is more mature.

   If people want to experiment with the LN, they should use the test network rather than the main network. What is considered a "small amount" now could very well be considered a significant amount in a few years. I for one am going to continue to wait to use it. I attempted to set it up several month ago, but found the whole process to be a PITA. Thank goodness that at this stage in the game, the setup process isn't exactly idiot friendly.  Cheesy

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January 06, 2019, 11:46:40 PM
 #304

The quote is from someone who claims that Lightning is a "separate network" because of something in its code called "chainhash".

What is chainhash, and how can the Lightning Network be considered a "separate network" because of it?
The Lightning Network works on any cryptocurrency that has some specific properties. For example, it can be used on both Bitcoin and Litecoin. The chainhash is the hash of the genesis block and is used to indicate which blockchain a particular lightning node is operating on. In a way, the Lightning Network on Bitcoin and Lightning Network on Litecoin are two different networks. However, they are also the same network too.

They are different networks in the sense that there cannot be channels which are shared across both blockchains. All channels are based on one blockchain as channels require modification of a transaction for that blockchain. Since Bitcoin and Litecoin use different blockchains, there can only be Bitcoin channels and Litecoin channels.

However, they can also be viewed as the same network because of cross chain atomic swaps. HTLCs allow people to create a channel on Bitcoin and a similar channel on Litecoin which uses HTLCs with the same hashed secrets. This let people atomically swap Bitcoin for Litecoin. So payments can still be routed over this joint network. If someone wanted to be paid in Litecoin over the Lightning Network but you only have Bitcoin channels, you can (in theory, I don't know if this is implemented) route your payment through a node that has both Bitcoin and Litecoin channels using the same HTLC secrets and it would be totally fine. The only caveat is the exchange rate between Bitcoin and Litecoin which would have to be negotiated with that node doing the bridging between Bitcoin and Litecoin.


Good explanation.

It seems that alternative cryptos are helping LN become more secure by widening the breadth of different users and hashrate. Is that a fair assumption ?
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January 07, 2019, 09:02:59 AM
 #305

"trust minimalized"

lol im laughing

i think more people really need to actually research LN. its getting obvious who has actually used it and who is just repeating the propaganda promotion material


It is trust-minimized.

No, it's you who has not researched Lightning, or reject the reality that Lightning is truly decentralized, and truly is "peer to peer electronic cash", like how Satoshi envisioned it. Cool

You can laugh all you want, but no one believes you anymore, because all your narratives have been memefied.


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January 10, 2019, 11:48:40 AM
 #306

Stakenet are doing some cool things with Lightning Network. They have run Lightning Swaps (Atomic Swaps on Lightning Network) on their mainnet and provided a guide so people can try it. They are currently getting ready to release their Multi-currency Light Wallet which seems pretty smart. They are holding the different blockchains on their MN network so the wallet only needs to hold the private keys and interacts with the blockchains by signing Lightning Invoices. This makes it really fast and lightweight as you don't download and sync blockchains. Their MN network will all be turned to Lightning Nodes and hold multiple channels as well as Watchtowers, they currently have just under 2000 MN's so it will open lots of new channels.

Using their Lightning Swap tech they are also building a DEX on top of the MN network so this will bring instant P2P trading on Lightning Network. I think this is going to help Lightning Network grow a lot this year.

Imagine a retailer only accepting BTC, now you can pay in any crypto and it instantly converts to BTC for the retailer. A more likely scenario I think is that retailers will start accepting USDC if Coinbase push it like I expect they will. So now you can pay in any crypto to the retailer and the retailer will receive USDC via an automatic Lightning Swap. Plus the Light Wallet makes it way easier for retailers to integrate as they don't need to maintain channels or keep full nodes open.

I think what they are doing is going to have a big impact on Lightning Network and hopefully massively help with adoption.
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January 26, 2019, 10:59:56 AM
Last edit: January 27, 2019, 06:05:22 AM by mindrust
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), HairyMaclairy (1)
 #307

Is there anybody using BlueWallet (IOS)?

I am exploring that one and it feels pretty good at the first glance. No need to setup nodes too. Just install and go. What do you think about it? It is probably the only IOS wallet which is on mainnet and fully functioning. (so they say) I haven't tried if it is working or not though. I'll edit when I do.

Edit: It seems it is not fully functioning at all. You can receive but you can't send your LN funds. :/

Edit2: tried the wallet with this LN faucet. Funds arrived in a few seconds. This is awesome stuff. "fuck bcash" is me btw. Smiley





Edit3: Sending works too! I successfully sent 100 sats (50+50) back to the faucet!!!!




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January 26, 2019, 09:30:01 PM
Merited by Wind_FURY (5)
 #308

"trust minimalized"

lol im laughing

i think more people really need to actually research LN. its getting obvious who has actually used it and who is just repeating the propaganda promotion material

I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that the experience was like dealing with banks. 
I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that it is a utopian fantasy.
I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that their consensus was bypassed.
I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that it is a separate network that supports more than once blockchain.

All that repeated propaganda material is coming from you.

But as long as we agree on the part where people should try using Lightning before forming their own conclusions, rather than simply take your word or mine for it, then that's okay.  However, much like Bitcoin itself, it's only responsible to point out that Lightning is still not at the stage where it is ready for mainstream adoption.  It may be best for most users to wait a while before taking the plunge.  It's also important for users to learn about the differences between sending transactions via LN compared to the standard way of transacting before getting involved.  The security model is different.  Lightning is still beta software.  Users should experiment with only small amounts of BTC, or other compatible cryptocurrency, until LN is more mature.

Honestly, for all it's flaws, it's amazing that someone managed to figure out a way to leverage bitcoins distributed consensus model and create a scaled up product that conserves many if not all of the fundamental aims all while leaving the genuine artifact entirely unmolested. Oh and do it all without bifurcating the currency supply! It's mind boggling. Just...


Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
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January 27, 2019, 08:10:43 AM
 #309

You can easily and freely send messages and files under 10Kb through Blockstream satellites with https://blockstream.com/satellite-queue/ (Broadcast a Transmission) by "paying" with testnet BTC on testnet LN

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January 29, 2019, 11:31:23 AM
 #310

"trust minimalized"

lol im laughing

i think more people really need to actually research LN. its getting obvious who has actually used it and who is just repeating the propaganda promotion material

I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that the experience was like dealing with banks. 
I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that it is a utopian fantasy.
I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that their consensus was bypassed.
I've yet to hear complaints from those who have used it that it is a separate network that supports more than once blockchain.

All that repeated propaganda material is coming from you.

But as long as we agree on the part where people should try using Lightning before forming their own conclusions, rather than simply take your word or mine for it, then that's okay.  However, much like Bitcoin itself, it's only responsible to point out that Lightning is still not at the stage where it is ready for mainstream adoption.  It may be best for most users to wait a while before taking the plunge.  It's also important for users to learn about the differences between sending transactions via LN compared to the standard way of transacting before getting involved.  The security model is different.  Lightning is still beta software.  Users should experiment with only small amounts of BTC, or other compatible cryptocurrency, until LN is more mature.

Honestly, for all it's flaws, it's amazing that someone managed to figure out a way to leverage bitcoins distributed consensus model and create a scaled up product that conserves many if not all of the fundamental aims all while leaving the genuine artifact entirely unmolested. Oh and do it all without bifurcating the currency supply! It's mind boggling.


Plus Lightning has increased Bitcoin's utility by a thousand times by making it possible to transact to the "millisatoshi" level, a thousandth of a satoshi, and without changing the basic parameters of the Bitcoin network.

franky1 believes it's an "abomination" though. Haha.


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January 29, 2019, 12:42:19 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), Wind_FURY (1)
 #311

Plus Lightning has increased Bitcoin's utility by a thousand times by making it possible to transact to the "millisatoshi" level, a thousandth of a satoshi, and without changing the basic parameters of the Bitcoin network.

franky1 believes it's an "abomination" though. Haha.

Any positive feature, try to spin it as a negative.  That appears to be the game.   Cheesy

Still, the best argument remains that no one can prevent people from building this network.  And no one can force others to build every single feature into the base protocol.  Some things are naturally going to be built on top, because it's all permissionless.  As to Lightning's success and longevity (or any other feature built as an additional layer, for that matter), that's entirely up to users.  If it provides them benefit, they'll use it.  If it doesn't, they won't.  So why not just see how it plays out?  Arguing from a theoretical standpoint can only get us so far.  Sometimes you just have to go ahead and do something to find out for sure.

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January 29, 2019, 07:28:05 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #312

I don't know if it has been posted before but this is an awesome step by step guide on how to set up your own lightning node easily:

https://medium.com/lightning-power-users/windows-macos-lightning-network-284bd5034340
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January 30, 2019, 11:28:24 AM
 #313

Plus Lightning has increased Bitcoin's utility by a thousand times by making it possible to transact to the "millisatoshi" level, a thousandth of a satoshi, and without changing the basic parameters of the Bitcoin network.

franky1 believes it's an "abomination" though. Haha.

Any positive feature, try to spin it as a negative.  That appears to be the game.   Cheesy

Still, the best argument remains that no one can prevent people from building this network.  And no one can force others to build every single feature into the base protocol.  Some things are naturally going to be built on top, because it's all permissionless.  As to Lightning's success and longevity (or any other feature built as an additional layer, for that matter), that's entirely up to users.  If it provides them benefit, they'll use it.  If it doesn't, they won't.  So why not just see how it plays out?  Arguing from a theoretical standpoint can only get us so far.  Sometimes you just have to go ahead and do something to find out for sure.


It's also funny that those are the same people that say the Core developers suppress Bitcoin's growth because of their conservatism in development.

They have their big blocks, they can experiment, and break their network if they want. Which is also good in my opinion, because it would show everyone what not to do. If it's a success, then it's a success.


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John999
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February 05, 2019, 09:29:11 PM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1)
 #314

Twitter CEO playing with the lightning network. Pretty cool.

https://twitter.com/jack/status/1092892320842706944?s=19
the_stars_are_numerous
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February 07, 2019, 08:57:42 AM
 #315

Twitter CEO playing with the lightning network. Pretty cool.

https://twitter.com/jack/status/1092892320842706944?s=19

Anyone know who the hodlonaut is here on BitcoinTalk? That space cat is my hero!
irukandji
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February 11, 2019, 09:25:15 AM
 #316

Question. If I put 1 BTC into a channel and one of my connections uses that to make a payment, so it goes to the other end of my channel. Do I have to wait until someone uses that channel to send it back the other way?  Or would I just deposit more BTC? Or would I close the channel and start all over again?
BitCryptex
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February 11, 2019, 02:50:06 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #317

Question. If I put 1 BTC into a channel and one of my connections uses that to make a payment, so it goes to the other end of my channel. Do I have to wait until someone uses that channel to send it back the other way?  Or would I just deposit more BTC? Or would I close the channel and start all over again?

The maximum amount of BTC that can be locked up in a channel is currently about 0.16 BTC. You would have to wait for someone to send back some coins through you or close the channel and reopen it. If you are not interested in payment routing and want to avoid such situation then you can either create a private channel which cannot be seen by other nodes or set your fee policy so high that your route won't be efficient.

thecodebear
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February 12, 2019, 01:34:13 AM
 #318

Question. If I put 1 BTC into a channel and one of my connections uses that to make a payment, so it goes to the other end of my channel. Do I have to wait until someone uses that channel to send it back the other way?  Or would I just deposit more BTC? Or would I close the channel and start all over again?


As the guy above said, the current cap on a channel is much smaller than 1 Bitcoin.

Anyways, maybe I'm not understanding the point of the question, I don't understand why you would care that the payment is on the other side of that channel. You would still have that Bitcoin in your LN wallet, just on your side in another channel if someone routed a payment through you. All your channels should be connected to the broader network so you should be able to route from any channel, so no need to deposit more BTC or close the channel. Unless for some reason you opened up a channel to a node that is only connected to the whole network through you and therefore you can only send payments from that one channel. But yeah your end of that specific channel would only get filled again once a payment was made to you (or through you) through that channel.
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February 13, 2019, 04:15:46 PM
 #319

Anonymint recently posted (and has since updated) his analysis of the lightning network. Recommended reading if you want a unique take on LN:

https://steemit.com/blockchain-scaling/@anonymint/lightning-networks-must-fail-if-it-succeeds
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February 13, 2019, 06:18:57 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), DooMAD (2)
 #320

Anonymint recently posted (and has since updated) his analysis of the lightning network. Recommended reading if you want a unique take on LN:

https://steemit.com/blockchain-scaling/@anonymint/lightning-networks-must-fail-if-it-succeeds

This guy is full of shit.

"The altcoin Bitcoin Core forked off from the immutable Satoshi’s Real Bitcoin."

If what he says is true, where the fuck is that real bitcoin now? Can't believe I actually partly read this piece of crap.




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