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Author Topic: Lightning Network Discussion Thread  (Read 28804 times)
JayJuanGee
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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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February 13, 2019, 07:16:14 PM
 #321

Anonymint recently posted (and has since updated) his analysis of the lightning network. Recommended reading if you want a unique take on LN:

https://steemit.com/blockchain-scaling/@anonymint/lightning-networks-must-fail-if-it-succeeds

This guy is full of shit.

"The altcoin Bitcoin Core forked off from the immutable Satoshi’s Real Bitcoin."

If what he says is true, where the fuck is that real bitcoin now? Can't believe I actually partly read this piece of crap.

Thanks for summarizing that link, and saving some of us from clicking on it.

Yeah.. I have seen quite a bit of anunymint's bullshit crap in the guise of technical expertise, and there is something missing with his acceptance of both the network affects of bitcoin that include how much consensus was mustered up to activate and then implement segregated witness that is NOT going to go back, unless a similar amount of consensus can be mustered up AGAINST segregated witness - which is NOT going to happen without some kind of real major bug or something like that.  He and other nutjob shills are spending a lot of time to argue that such supposed bugs exist, which is neither supported by the evidence unless he can convince the masses that there is evidence in order to attempt to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, which seems to have less than a snowball's chance in hell of happening given continuing apparent successful developments upon segregated witness (including lightning network).

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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February 13, 2019, 07:47:33 PM
 #322

Anonymint recently posted (and has since updated) his analysis of the lightning network. Recommended reading if you want a unique take on LN:

https://steemit.com/blockchain-scaling/@anonymint/lightning-networks-must-fail-if-it-succeeds

This guy is full of shit.

"The altcoin Bitcoin Core forked off from the immutable Satoshi’s Real Bitcoin."

If what he says is true, where the fuck is that real bitcoin now? Can't believe I actually partly read this piece of crap.

http://therealbitcoin.org/
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February 13, 2019, 07:48:41 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #323

Anonymint recently posted (and has since updated) his analysis of the lightning network. Recommended reading if you want a unique take on LN:

https://steemit.com/blockchain-scaling/@anonymint/lightning-networks-must-fail-if-it-succeeds

This guy is full of shit.

"The altcoin Bitcoin Core forked off from the immutable Satoshi’s Real Bitcoin."

If what he says is true, where the fuck is that real bitcoin now? Can't believe I actually partly read this piece of crap.

Thanks for summarizing that link, and saving some of us from clicking on it.

Yeah.. I have seen quite a bit of anunymint's bullshit crap in the guise of technical expertise, and there is something missing with his acceptance of both the network affects of bitcoin that include how much consensus was mustered up to activate and then implement segregated witness that is NOT going to go back, unless a similar amount of consensus can be mustered up AGAINST segregated witness - which is NOT going to happen without some kind of real major bug or something like that.  He and other nutjob shills are spending a lot of time to argue that such supposed bugs exist, which is neither supported by the evidence unless he can convince the masses that there is evidence in order to attempt to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, which seems to have less than a snowball's chance in hell of happening given continuing apparent successful developments upon segregated witness (including lightning network).


yeah thats exactly what i was thinking. I read for a couple minutes and that was enough to conclude the guy is a nutjob using big words and technical terms to try to sound like he has any idea what he is talking about.

"The altcoin Bitcoin Core forked off from the immutable Satoshi’s Real Bitcoin."

Yeah when you read that quote that's all you have to know about that nutjob. He's probably still running pre-segwit biticoin protocol all by himself in his basement talking about the day when its gonna come back and take over hahaha
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February 15, 2019, 10:25:54 AM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 10:54:55 AM by Wind_FURY
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #324

I stopped reading anonymint's blog when I saw that he posted this image, comparing the "transaction speeds" of different blockchains.



It's easy to trick the newbies to believe that the other "blockchains", Ripple for example, is faster without context. He is full of shit.

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★.★.★   8 GAMES   ★   WAGERING CONTEST   ★   JACKPOTS   ★   FAUCET   ★.★.★
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February 15, 2019, 10:46:45 AM
 #325

I stopped reading anonymint's blog when I saw that he posted this image, comparing the "transaction speeds" of different blockchains.



It's easy to trick the newbies to believe that the other "blockchains", Ripple for example, is faster without context. He is full of shit.

If you believe context is important, you should pay attention to the size of the image you linked to. The image is currently huge, and your explanatory text comparatively very small

Vires in numeris
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February 15, 2019, 10:55:30 AM
 #326

Sorry, Mr. Banks. Fixed. Cool

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★.★.★   8 GAMES   ★   WAGERING CONTEST   ★   JACKPOTS   ★   FAUCET   ★.★.★
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February 15, 2019, 11:08:19 AM
Merited by Wind_FURY (1)
 #327

Unique takes on Lightning Network, Segregated Witness, or basically anything related (or remotely related) to Bitcoin aren't hard to find if that's what we're interested in. But yeah, when you're trying to peddle "Satoshi's Real Bitcoin", you've just shot yourself in the foot. Not that anony's previous posts haven't already done that.

@Wind I think you should have left the image alone, and adjusted the size of your explanatory text. I like big words or a lot of small words.

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February 16, 2019, 10:41:05 PM
 #328

I stopped reading anonymint's blog when I saw that he posted this image, comparing the "transaction speeds" of different blockchains.



It's easy to trick the newbies to believe that the other "blockchains", Ripple for example, is faster without context. He is full of shit.

Anonymint responded:

Tangentially Note: the above chart isn’t cited as an endorsement nor comparison of the security and any attributes other than transactions-per-second (TPS) of the listed distributed ledgers. For example, I wrote (https://twitter.com/iamnotback/status/1081238488421285889) on Twitter, “XRP is a joke. None of the experts respect the algorithm […] Ripple is dog shit. I will cite myself as an expert on decentralized consensus ledgers.”
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February 16, 2019, 10:41:59 PM
 #329

Unique takes on Lightning Network, Segregated Witness, or basically anything related (or remotely related) to Bitcoin aren't hard to find

Anonymint responded:
Really? Links please for unique takes which explain why LN will not scale as on-chain transaction fees rise due to increased demand and limited block size?
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February 17, 2019, 06:39:54 AM
 #330

I stopped reading anonymint's blog when I saw that he posted this image, comparing the "transaction speeds" of different blockchains.



It's easy to trick the newbies to believe that the other "blockchains", Ripple for example, is faster without context. He is full of shit.

Anonymint responded:

Tangentially Note: the above chart isn’t cited as an endorsement nor comparison of the security and any attributes other than transactions-per-second (TPS) of the listed distributed ledgers. For example, I wrote (https://twitter.com/iamnotback/status/1081238488421285889) on Twitter, “XRP is a joke. None of the experts respect the algorithm […] Ripple is dog shit. I will cite myself as an expert on decentralized consensus ledgers.”


The he should remove it, or label it as "not a great comparison". The newbies who follow that blog will surely take it out of context, in my opinion.

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★.★.★   8 GAMES   ★   WAGERING CONTEST   ★   JACKPOTS   ★   FAUCET   ★.★.★
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February 19, 2019, 10:55:02 AM
 #331

Where can we find Lightning's transaction success rate for varying amounts? I saw franky1 attacking Lightning again. But if he's right, then ok. But I want it backed by facts.

If Lightning transactions has a 10% success rate to purchase one whole pizza from Domino's, then I will be the first person to post it.

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★.★.★   8 GAMES   ★   WAGERING CONTEST   ★   JACKPOTS   ★   FAUCET   ★.★.★
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February 19, 2019, 01:52:27 PM
 #332

I would appreciate if any of you could take a look at this thread created by me in the project development section.

Where can we find Lightning's transaction success rate for varying amounts?

It's impossible to obtain accurate data since channels do not announce how much of their balance is available for routing.

If Lightning transactions has a 10% success rate to purchase one whole pizza from Domino's, then I will be the first person to post it.

If you live in the US then you can test it out and get additional 5% off for using the LN - ln.pizza

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February 19, 2019, 10:02:10 PM
 #333

Eclair mobile testnet now supports receiving funds over the Lightning Network! Once you enable receiving, the default refund delay will change from 144 to 2016 blocks (~2 weeks). The wallet informs user how much he can receive (the current state of liquidity of each channel). Mainnet version is going to be released in a few weeks. More information can be found here.

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February 20, 2019, 06:23:27 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #334

Given the right context, is the report saying that there were 1,500 attempts to use Lightning to buy pizza, and that only 150 orders went through?

I believe franky1's gaslighting must have affected me that much if I start questioning the facts as reported. Hahaha.

https://www.coindesk.com/pizza-lightning-bitcoin

Quote

Reeves said Fold currently serves 1,500 monthly users, facilitating roughly 35,000 total bitcoin transactions since launching the first version of the app in 2014. Until now, the largely bootstrapped project was funded by a small seed round from Boost VC. Looking forward, Reeves said the plan is to partner with crypto wallet startups for direct integrations.

“The largest barrier to conversion was setting up a new lightning wallet,” Reeves said, adding there were roughly 1,500 orders but only a 10 percent conversion rate because people struggled to use lightning-enabled bitcoin wallets.

“We’ve learned a lesson that in order to grow the lightning ecosystem we not only need the best products, but the best education as well,” Reeves said. “We will incorporate that into our plan going forward.”


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February 20, 2019, 05:21:31 PM
 #335

https://twitter.com/jack/status/1098255550129655809

Looks like Lightning on Twitter will be an increasing thing. I'm not sure whether there's going to be an official implementation, I guess that might be a bit of nightmare for them, but here's Jack Dorsey endorsing a third party iteration.

Combine that with his Cash app and you'd squirt your way into a giant new audience.

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February 20, 2019, 05:47:59 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #336

This lightning project is kind of cool and funny  Grin

https://pollofeed.com
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February 21, 2019, 09:50:39 PM
 #337

This lightning project is kind of cool and funny  Grin

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I remotely fed chickens for 1000 satoshis with almost no fees using the bitcoin lightning network. What did your Shitcoin do today?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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February 23, 2019, 03:38:20 PM
Last edit: February 23, 2019, 04:00:31 PM by jubalix
 #338

So, I still don't see how you can a have a record of transactions with the lightning network.

You only get a total put to the blockchain of a closed channel.

So all the interim transactions, what record of them do you have that cannot be changed.

So the LN becomes a payment system, not a records system.

How then does this make access to the the records aspect of BTC open easy use, does it not become prohibitively expensive?

What is the philosophy here?

Footnote

I am still waiting for the argument why the blocksize can't be increased as some sort of S curve to make access cheaper?


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February 23, 2019, 05:16:53 PM
 #339

So, I still don't see how you can a have a record of transactions with the lightning network.

You only get a total put to the blockchain of a closed channel.

So all the interim transactions, what record of them do you have that cannot be changed.

So the LN becomes a payment system, not a records system.

You just realized the point of LN, to make fast and cheap transaction. All transaction made on LN intentionally not recorded on blockchain so it will reduce burden on on-chain network and improve user privacy.

How then does this make access to the the records aspect of BTC open easy use, does it not become prohibitively expensive?

I don't really understand this question, but i don't see correlation between LN and makes using bitcoin/running nodes become expensive.

What is the philosophy here?

IMO it's "fast and cheap micro-transaction"

I am still waiting for the argument why the blocksize can't be increased as some sort of S curve to make access cheaper?

Blocksize/blockweight can be increased, but at cost making run full-nodes more expensive whether it's linear or S curve function growth.

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February 23, 2019, 11:53:49 PM
Last edit: February 24, 2019, 02:00:14 AM by jubalix
 #340




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So, I still don't see how you can a have a record of transactions with the lightning network.

You only get a total put to the blockchain of a closed channel.

So all the interim transactions, what record of them do you have that cannot be changed.

So the LN becomes a payment system, not a records system.

You just realized the point of LN, to make fast and cheap transaction. All transaction made on LN intentionally not recorded on blockchain so it will reduce burden on on-chain network and improve user privacy.
No. I stated this ages ago and rather than a straight answer I was told to look at the white paper.





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How then does this make access to the the records aspect of BTC open easy use, does it not become prohibitively expensive?




I don't really understand this question, but i don't see correlation between LN and makes using bitcoin/running nodes become expensive.
[/quote]



And in this lays the problem. The need for a ledger that proves the transaction occurred allows the trust in the system to 100%. Every sale in fiat comes with a receipt, well 99%. You just dont know when you needed to prove that transaction.

Without the onchain records function a central plank of btc is weakened. the "Distributed ledger" part.



Quote
What is the philosophy here?

IMO it's "fast and cheap micro-transaction"

I am still waiting for the argument why the blocksize can't be increased as some sort of S curve to make access cheaper?

Blocksize/blockweight can be increased, but at cost making run full-nodes more expensive whether it's linear or S curve function growth.
[/quote]

My concern is given, userbase has gone up, hardware is more powerful, the exceptind the one of bump of segwit, blocksize is effectively decreasing.

There is no extra cost to running full nodes where hd space/$ increases and bandwidth /$ cost decreases. Rather EFFECTIVE blocksize is decreasing.

The on chain records are a low price are essential inmho.

I feel core is wedded to muh 1MB, as an article of faith. Eg they don't want to make it bigger as this would in their view vindicate BCH or give BCH something to crow about.

Maybe it would. Thats not the issue. The issue is you need access to the blockspace. Without it you centralise actors, eg who can afford 50$ a transaction? Except early adopters




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