Getting started with the lighting network. How to unlock my btc?

[Realerre]

Hi,
I just started to play with the lighting network:
Yesterday I downloaded the android app and successfully fund a wallet, and then I opened a channel with https://www.lightningspin.com in order to try to place some bets.
All went smoothly, but when I tried to withdraw i found that my channel was functioning only one way, because "my peer is not ready".

24 hours and 108 confirmations passed since I funded the channel, so I suppose my peer should be ready....is anybody capable of giving me an hint about what I did wrong and what I can do now?


Here the details:

Code:

Wallet: 03882cd8251603ab84b1f8ecd8d066e991802463de9564826d2fe0bc1cddf09ec3

Peer: 02cf3cc45d8fee5055c4ba5a58fe22ae973685fa2cb43e2c5b6454eaa1d08066a8

Channel: 35bb350f62de637e3747e99d37d6bd8fa22db6f02bcfaa333a041b9d273736ca

[1714032835]

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[1714032835]

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[1714032835]

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[1714032835]

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[1714032835]

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[1714032835]

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[Realerre]

Up!

[Realerre]

Up!

[Rath_]

What wallet are you exactly using?

[Realerre]

What wallet are you exactly using?

"Bitcoin lighting wallet" android app

[Rath_]

"Bitcoin lighting wallet" android app

As far as I remember, user Anon136 had a similar problem.

The android wallet that I'm using doesn't seem to have the functionality to open a channel where I am the creditor and my partner is the debtor. In other words a channel that I can receive funds on without having spent down first. But just because this wallet lacks that functionality doesn't mean the network lacks that functionality. Tell me if I got something wrong here.

I have just found an important note on the wallet's website.

In order to receive Lightning payments, some conditions must be met:

    Nothing can be received immediately after creating a new payment channel, as ‘room’ for incoming funds has to be made by spending some funds first. A payment channel can be thought of as a full bottle of water: in order to pour something in one first has to pour something out.

    Each channel implicitly contains a reserve which is unspendable and typically takes about 2% of the channel’s capacity. You must spend that reserve before receiving is allowed. Unspendable channel reserve is the reason you see a negative receive limit when a new channel is full. It indicates how much you need to spend before anything can be received through the channel.

Source: http://lightning-wallet.com/using-lightning-wallet#using-lightning-wallet

All you have to do is to spend more of your coins which are locked up in this channel. Let me know if this worked for you. You can find more details in the link above.

[Realerre]

"Bitcoin lighting wallet" android app

As far as I remember, user Anon136 had a similar problem.

The android wallet that I'm using doesn't seem to have the functionality to open a channel where I am the creditor and my partner is the debtor. In other words a channel that I can receive funds on without having spent down first. But just because this wallet lacks that functionality doesn't mean the network lacks that functionality. Tell me if I got something wrong here.

I have just found an important note on the wallet's website.

In order to receive Lightning payments, some conditions must be met:

    Nothing can be received immediately after creating a new payment channel, as ‘room’ for incoming funds has to be made by spending some funds first. A payment channel can be thought of as a full bottle of water: in order to pour something in one first has to pour something out.

    Each channel implicitly contains a reserve which is unspendable and typically takes about 2% of the channel’s capacity. You must spend that reserve before receiving is allowed. Unspendable channel reserve is the reason you see a negative receive limit when a new channel is full. It indicates how much you need to spend before anything can be received through the channel.

Source: http://lightning-wallet.com/using-lightning-wallet#using-lightning-wallet

All you have to do is to spend more of your coins which are locked up in this channel. Let me know if this worked for you. You can find more details in the link above.

Thank you very much for your response.
I funded the channel with 300k satoshis and I spent 203k satoshis, I think my "bottle" should be enough empty to create a payment request, but the wallet keeps saying that "my peer is not ready" 

[Rath_]

Thank you very much for your response.
I funded the channel with 300k satoshis and I spent 203k satoshis, I think my "bottle" should be enough empty to create a payment request, but the wallet keeps saying that "my peer is not ready" 

Try using Lightning Network Community Jar. If you will be able to receive without any problems then you should contact someone from Lightning Spin (this might be a bit difficult). If it still doesn't work then there must be a problem with this wallet. It has barely 1 thousand downloads so I don't expect that many people have tested it properly.

[Realerre]

I funded the jar, but I'm not able to open a channel with coinpanic.com (03a9d79bcfab7feb0f24c3cd61a57f0f00de2225b6d31bce0bc4564efa3b1b5aaf) because "data loss protection is not enabled by this peer".
Also, opening a new channel cost 300k satoshis min deposit (is this a lighting network design feature or only my wallet?) and I'm a bit exitant to do it, but I'll do if you know a trusted peer

[Rath_]

I funded the jar, but I'm not able to open a channel with coinpanic.com (03a9d79bcfab7feb0f24c3cd61a57f0f00de2225b6d31bce0bc4564efa3b1b5aaf) because "data loss protection is not enabled by this peer".
Also, opening a new channel cost 300k satoshis min deposit (is this a lighting network design feature or only my wallet?) and I'm a bit exitant to do it, but I'll do if you know a trusted peer

You should be able to receive without opening additional channel (assuming that there is at least one route between you and that node).

You'd better change your wallet. I currently use Eclair on my Android phone. The minimum amount to open a channel is 0.001 BTC. However, it does not support receiving fund so if you really need that feature then you should consider setting up a node on your computer which might be more difficult. You could start with the testnet to see if everything is working correctly without having to spend your precious coins.

[Realerre]

I funded the jar, but I'm not able to open a channel with coinpanic.com (03a9d79bcfab7feb0f24c3cd61a57f0f00de2225b6d31bce0bc4564efa3b1b5aaf) because "data loss protection is not enabled by this peer".
Also, opening a new channel cost 300k satoshis min deposit (is this a lighting network design feature or only my wallet?) and I'm a bit exitant to do it, but I'll do if you know a trusted peer

You should be able to receive without opening additional channel (assuming that there is at least one route between you and that node).

You'd better change your wallet. I currently use Eclair on my Android phone. The minimum amount to open a channel is 0.001 BTC. However, it does not support receiving fund so if you really need that feature then you should consider setting up a node on your computer which might be more difficult. You could start with the testnet to see if everything is working correctly without having to spend your precious coins.

Ok, I emptied the wallet. But I still have 86k satoshis in the channel and 200k on the site, I think I could close the channel but I would lose the 200k, and I don't want my first try with the LN to be such a failure. If i open a channel with some trusted peer connected to lightingspin, would i supposed to be able to make a payment request? When the wallet say "peer not ready" the peer is lightingspin.com, right? Can open a new channel with someone connected with them work in order to make me able to craft a payment request to all the connected peers? And how can I find the connected peers?

[kevoh]

I am hoping to get a few good reviews about this Bitcoin lightning network, we can not continue to expect all will be fine with bitcoin scalability issues if people keep complaining.

Ok, I emptied the wallet. But I still have 86k satoshis in the channel and 200k on the site, I think I could close the channel but I would lose the 200k, and I don't want my first try with the LN to be such a failure. ?

This is enough to even discourage one from testing lightning network!

[Rath_]

If i open a channel with some trusted peer connected to lightingspin, would i supposed to be able to make a payment request? [...] And how can I find the connected peers?

Theoretically yes, but I can't guarantee you that. I still think that there is a problem with this wallet. Here you can check the details of channels connected to that node. Next time try to choose more popular implementation so you can avoid this kind of problems in the future.

This is enough to even discourage one from testing lightning network!

Read the whole thread once again. It's not the fault of the Lightning Network. He won 200k satoshis on the site, but he can't withdraw it due to some problems with his wallet which is not very popular (1 thousand downloads on Google Play).

[Realerre]

If i open a channel with some trusted peer connected to lightingspin, would i supposed to be able to make a payment request? [...] And how can I find the connected peers?

Theoretically yes, but I can't guarantee you that. I still think that there is a problem with this wallet. Here you can check the details of channels connected to that node. Next time try to choose more popular implementation so you can avoid this kind of problems in the future.

This is enough to even discourage one from testing lightning network!

Read the whole thread once again. It's not the fault of the Lightning Network. He won 200k satoshis on the site, but he can't withdraw it due to some problems with his wallet which is not very popular (1 thousand downloads on Google Play).

Yes, it could be a wallet fault. Is there no way to see if the channel should be open or not? Or that's a "private" channel and there's not an open ledger about opened channels? In my first post I pasted some data that I supposed could had worked like a 'tx id" for channels. Sorry if I'm not using the right words but I'm not used to the LN. (And I didn't won anything, i lost I deposited 300k and now I have 286k in total)

[Rath_]

Yes, it could be a wallet fault. Is there no way to see if the channel should be open or not? Or that's a "private" channel and there's not an open ledger about opened channels? In my first post I pasted some data that I supposed could had worked like a 'tx id" for channels. Sorry if I'm not using the right words but I'm not used to the LN. (And I didn't won anything, i lost I deposited 300k and now I have 286k in total)

If I were you, I would try setting up a node on a computer instead. Opening a new channel does not make any sense because as I wrote earlier, it might be an issue with your current wallet. Here you can find a list of lightningspin.com's channels.

After a while of thinking, I came up with another solution. There is a website called Lightning Conductor which allows you to convert your bitcoins on the LN to on-chain ones without having to close your channel. All you have to do is to input the destination Bitcoin address and the amount of BTC. The website will generate you a LN invoice which you will have to input on the lightningspin.com.

Note: I haven't used that website, but it seems to work fairly well.

[Realerre]

Yes, it could be a wallet fault. Is there no way to see if the channel should be open or not? Or that's a "private" channel and there's not an open ledger about opened channels? In my first post I pasted some data that I supposed could had worked like a 'tx id" for channels. Sorry if I'm not using the right words but I'm not used to the LN. (And I didn't won anything, i lost I deposited 300k and now I have 286k in total)

If I were you, I would try setting up a node on a computer instead. Opening a new channel does not make any sense because as I wrote earlier, it might be an issue with your current wallet. Here you can find a list of lightningspin.com's channels.

After a while of thinking, I came up with another solution. There is a website called Lightning Conductor which allows you to convert your bitcoins on the LN to on-chain ones without having to close your channel. All you have to do is to input the destination Bitcoin address and the amount of BTC. The website will generate you a LN invoice which you will have to input on the lightningspin.com.

Note: I haven't used that website, but it seems to work fairly well.

Thank you very much, I just recovered my funds  
Having to trust a third part is not the best solution, but if I understood well the only alternative way is to put up a node but if it's like a blockchain node seems like a long setup.

Now, how can I send you 100k satoshis using lighting network to say "thank you"? Do I need to set up a channel with you or do we have an opened route via lightingspin and all I need is a request by you? I can not send a LN payment without an invoice by the receiver, right?

[Rath_]

Now, how can I send you 100k satoshis using lighting network to say "thank you"? Do I need to set up a channel with you or do we have an opened route via lightingspin and all I need is a request by you? I can not send a LN payment without an invoice by the receiver, right?

You don't need to. I'm glad that you have managed to recover your funds. Anyway, my wallet does not support receiving over the Lightning Network so I wouldn't be able to accept your gift. Yes, you would need a payment request from me, but as I wrote, I cannot generate one. Also, you wouldn't need to open a channel with me if there was any route between us.

[Realerre]

Sure i dont need to, but i would be glad to give you a tip for your help if you want you can use lighting conductor and make me an invoice.

I read some more and I discovered that receiving an invoice could be a little more complicated than I thought, because the channel need to be constantly (or almost) opened to check all the route, as people are not sending coins bit only "borrowing" each other. did I understood right?

[Rath_]

Sure i dont need to, but i would be glad to give you a tip for your help if you want you can use lighting conductor and make me an invoice.

I read some more and I discovered that receiving an invoice could be a little more complicated than I thought, because the channel need to be constantly (or almost) opened to check all the route, as people are not sending coins bit only "borrowing" each other. did I understood right?

Keep that money to give the Lightning Network another try in the future

In order to receive coins through the Lightning Network, your node has to be online all the time. If you close all your channels then obviously you won't be able to receive any coins. Keep in mind that there has to be a route between you and the person who generates an invoice. Check out this thread, we are having a nice discussion there.

[Realerre]

Just some updates:

I tried again the ln wallet I download initially, I opened a channel with the suggested default peer and closed the channel with lightingspin.

Now I'm able to make a lighting payment request on android

Seems that was lightingspin.com that somehow "was not ready", now I take the other way (the peers are evidently connected) and I'm able to send and receive lighting payments via the default node, using android