Virtron is a scammer, How to stop scammers on this site?

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I am really starting to think bitcoins will never catch on in a big way...

I don't think this "dollar" thing is going to work very well either. Strangers can just rip you off!

[TyGrr]

That was a comment about people saying that further development was not needed and that "stupid" people should be ripped off. I was trying to get ideas, and even set up a site to help trade, not just smile when "stupid" people get ripped off.

But thank you for reading the thread and posting a helpful reply...

[error]

That was a comment about people saying that further development was not needed and that "stupid" people should be ripped off. I was trying to get ideas, and even set up a site to help trade, not just smile when "stupid" people get ripped off.

But thank you for reading the thread and posting a helpful reply...

And my comment was in response to you discouraging "stupid" people from becoming not stupid. Building tools to help "stupid" people not get ripped off is only a short-term band-aid. At some point they are just going to have to learn (people USED to be taught this in childhood) how to judge people they are wanting to do business or otherwise interact with.

[kcmastrpc]

I didn't say anything of the sort.

There is nothing stopping anyone from walking up to you with a gun and robbing you. I would think that there are obvious steps to avoid being robbed at gun point - some of them being don't go out alone, don't walk down dark alleys, don't use an atm machine on an empty street at night, etc.

There are several great tools available to everyone on this site, including their own brain. You also have some reputable and established feedback/rating systems available. I don't think an escrow/money holder system is very reasonable - after all, just trusting one more person that could rip you off, you're increasing your chances.

No matter where you go you're going to find people who don't care about the law and who will try to rip you off. Doubly so online, the anoymity of the internet and bitcoin just makes it that much of an 'effortless' target. You are not without recourse my friend, if you want to trade with someone, get their phone number, address, ANYTHING that can tie them to the transaction. If they aren't willing to concede, nbd, at least YOU aren't the one being ripped off.

[TyGrr]

Credit cards found a way to protect stupid people and where did that get them? If bitcoins are going to be for the masses shit needs to get done.

also https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43441 is the new account of Virtron, this is at least his 3rd account. However we should not ban him, we should just let a new "stupid" bitcoin user get fucked over. Why try to stop scammers? The system is perfect.

[kcmastrpc]

Credit cards found a way to protect stupid people and where did that get them? If bitcoins are going to be for the masses shit needs to get done.

You also pay with the use of a credit card - in the form of taxes, fees, fines, and interest. You don't get that protection for free, you pay for it.

also https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43441 is the new account of Virtron, this is at least his 3rd account. However we should not ban him, we should just let a new "stupid" bitcoin user get fucked over. Why try to stop scammers? The system is perfect.

It's your job to protect yourself from scammers - nobody elses. The mods can only ban an ip, that will not stop a persistant user from signing up with another fake email account through random russian proxy #3,201,308,832

[TyGrr]

I really don't see this system (common sense) catching on with the masses. We need something better... Really.

You can't fix stupid. I could care less if an idiot gets scammed tbph.

This is what I was talking about. I could care less if an idiot gets scammed tbph...  Well... I got scammed, am I an Idiot? Some people sent me money for Oolong tea. Where they idiots too? I sent them their tea but they had no way of knowing that I even have the tea they ordered.

I was willing to take a risk. I got scammed, now I am trying to help people trade safely. Why is there so much resistance to this?

[TyGrr]

Credit cards found a way to protect stupid people and where did that get them? If bitcoins are going to be for the masses shit needs to get done.

You also pay with the use of a credit card - in the form of taxes, fees, fines, and interest. You don't get that protection for free, you pay for it.

also https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43441 is the new account of Virtron, this is at least his 3rd account. However we should not ban him, we should just let a new "stupid" bitcoin user get fucked over. Why try to stop scammers? The system is perfect.

It's your job to protect yourself from scammers - nobody elses. The mods can only ban an ip, that will not stop a persistant user from signing up with another fake email account through random russian proxy #3,201,308,832

As I said in the thread I was willing to donate money/time to help make a new system. To help make bitcoin better...

[kcmastrpc]

What exactly are you doing to help again? You've done your part, you've made a thread and a topic.

I really do think this forum needs a sub-forum called trolls where this shit can be discussed at length without crapping the fs/ft section.

[kcmastrpc]

Credit cards found a way to protect stupid people and where did that get them? If bitcoins are going to be for the masses shit needs to get done.

You also pay with the use of a credit card - in the form of taxes, fees, fines, and interest. You don't get that protection for free, you pay for it.

also https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43441 is the new account of Virtron, this is at least his 3rd account. However we should not ban him, we should just let a new "stupid" bitcoin user get fucked over. Why try to stop scammers? The system is perfect.

It's your job to protect yourself from scammers - nobody elses. The mods can only ban an ip, that will not stop a persistant user from signing up with another fake email account through random russian proxy #3,201,308,832

As I said in the thread I was willing to donate money/time to help make a new system. To help make bitcoin better...

Go donate at heatware.com and start using it, it's catching on here as I've used it with several people here and I've noticed people who I haven't traded with using it.

[Fiyasko]

Low post count - check
no rep - check
no proof of ownership/shipping - check
previous claim on being a scammer - check

You would be really lucky not being scammed after all that..

Anyone who doesnt do this checklist is Practically Asking to get scammed. So SuckItUpButterCup.

It's your own damn fault

[TyGrr]

Challenge excepted

[memvola]

I was willing to take a risk. I got scammed, now I am trying to help people trade safely.

TyGrr, you constantly repeat "I am really starting to think bitcoins will never catch on in a big way" because you can't purchase goods from people with no reputation on an unofficial Bitcoin forum.

Don't get me wrong though, I really got your concern while trying to find a good auction site (Can anyone recommend one of these: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Auction_sites). I had used biddingpond last year, and there still isn't anything better and more popular. And last year I was thinking it's too late to make an auction site. This is pretty disappointing.

Also, although #bitcoin-otc is a good reputation system, it didn't step up to become as a standard rating system for Bitcoin. I presume there are other systems available ([PLACE YOUR AD HERE]), but none of them are very standard. We need a standard WoT, because I need to know if "I" should trust a person. Otherwise, even an eBay rating could suffice.

Why is there so much resistance to this?

I don't really get why you are resisting to the idea that an escrow service fixes this as much as a credit card company does. BTCrow even has a resolution service.

If you want to protect yourself more, you need to use common sense to measure trustworthiness. The other party needs to be risking more than you are in the case of failure to follow contract. This works for almost all online businesses, and also bidding sites (with seller ratings). For forums, you need to use an external method if the user in question is not someone you know.

[BTCrow]

Hi, first I apologize for your loss.

Second as some people here mentioned you should use an escrow when you don't trust someone.

There's plenty of services for escrowing payment right now. I'm (BTCrow.com) one of them and I'm also the only one which offer a fair resolution service which rely on proof.

I already managed a lot of disputes and everyone who used our services where happy with it. See our feedback on the site.

If you or anybody have more questions about my escrow service I'll be more than happy to answer it here.

Thanks
Jules

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I am trying to help people trade safely. Why is there so much resistance to this?

That's NOT what you came here with originally. And frankly there's absolutely no resistance to helping people trade safely. EVERYONE here supports it. The reason you're getting so much "resistance" is because that's not what you're doing. So stop and think carefully about what you're doing before you do anything else.

[BitcoinMint.US]

Low post count - check
no rep - check
no proof of ownership/shipping - check
previous claim on being a scammer - check

+1

[TyGrr]

Wow, this experience has been educational that is for sure. Thank you all.

I understand how the raped girl who speaks up feels.  She says something, everyone else say, it was her fault.

I got fucked over, I told people to watch out. I got many thank yous in PMs when I told people he was a scammer.

I still don't see why a rating system is such a bad idea. But okay, you all win... Next time I see a scammer I will not tell anyone.

Good luck and clearly don't be an idiot!

[RandyFolds]

Wow, this experience has been educational that is for sure. Thank you all.

I understand how the raped girl who speaks up feels.  She says something, everyone else say, it was her fault.

I got fucked over, I told people to watch out. I got many thank yous in PMs when I told people he was a scammer.

I still don't see why a rating system is such a bad idea. But okay, you all win... Next time I see a scammer I will not tell anyone.

Good luck and clearly don't be an idiot!

No, rape is a violent crime. The fact that you compare yourself to a rape victim makes me want to smash your head in like a rotten cantaloupe, you fuckwit.

I hope you die of AIDS after being pounded like a side of beef by some 400lb gangster.

Seriously....you are a gaping asshole with a piece of shit dangling from it.

[memvola]

I understand how the raped girl who speaks up feels.  She says something, everyone else say, it was her fault.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons rape is such a traumatic experience. The guilt associated with the victim. I agree that it's a terrible thing but the reason it's a bad analogy is because you are somewhat considered "guilty" because of your rhetoric about it, not the act itself. Think about it.

I still don't see why a rating system is such a bad idea. But okay, you all win... Next time I see a scammer I will not tell anyone.

I don't recall anyone saying a rating system is a bad idea. All recommendations involved forum reputation, which is a kind of rating. It's not very straightforward because you have to be the one who puts weights on post count, date of registration, post history, etc.

We have all the tools we need. We have rating systems. They only need to be put to use. I support your argument fully, but instead of just saying it needs to be done, let's begin to evaluate current solutions and support the ones that have merit.

[astana]

Phone number? ID? Reference checks?  

That defeats the whole purpose of staying anonymous if I just want 25btc, if your dealing in $5,000/$10,000 then yes you need that information or at least a escrow that is trust-able and backed my serious capital.

Why don't people use moneybooker's new escrow service? I see that as a good choice and I'll use it if I ever make big deals as protection.

Also what's to stop a trusted member making another account and scamming? In any grey market area like this, know your source, demand quality, and don't let your guard down.

Some of the best & trusted members of selling boards become scammers so in the end you just have to be careful all the time