Lightning network stats: 111 BTC • 3.5K nodes • 12.0K channels

[arde13]

Lightning network's mainnet has reached 100 BTC capacity on Jul 21!

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached (the latest up-to-date information):

111.85 BTC capacity ($709,365.01)
3,509 nodes
12,066 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 987,934

[1713863870]

1713863870

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

111.33 BTC capacity ($860,255.59)
2,874 nodes
10,227 channels

2,169 public nodes
2,068 nodes with active channels
396 channels opened in 24h
322 channels closed in 24h

0.011 BTC average channel capacity ($84.10)
0.054 BTC average node capacity ($415.88)
9.89 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,773

[Rath_]

I am impressed that the Lightning Network's capacity has been surging for the past few days. However, two nodes are controlling more than 50% of the funds available on the LN which some people consider as a serious danger. The number of channels doesn't matter if there aren't many connections between them. Users expect to open one channel and use it for the whole time without having to connect to another node.

Numbers don't matter, the usability of the network does.

[franky1]

total funds. meaningless. one dude could set up 2 nodes and channel between him and.. himself. fund that channel with any amount..
but thos funds are not what the community get to touch or use.

also do some maths. or check the stats. each channel is about 0.001 meaning if i sent a payment that routed through all the channels of 0.001.  then move their 0.001 out of their control in that direction. meaning if anyone else wanted to follow in a similar direction route. the channels wont be able to.

from this
me [0.001 <> 0.000] A [0.001 <> 0.000] B [0.001 <> 0.000] C [0.001 <> 0.000] D [0.001 <> 0.000] E [0.001 <> 0.000] F
to this
me [0.000 <> 0.001] A [0.000 <> 0.001] B [0.000 <> 0.001] C [0.000 <> 0.001] D [0.000 <> 0.001] E [0.000 <> 0.001]  F

A can no longer pay any other alphabet person
now imagine you joined A and wanted to pay F... YOU CANT..
take note.. even in the "from this" start point. although there is 0.006 ntwork capacity.. NO ONE can send more than 0.001.. and once 'me' has spend just 0.001 to F... (well ill emphasise it again)
A, B, C,D,E  CANNOT PAY F anything!


also. do the 'degrees of separation' maths
if 5 people. know 4 DIFFERENT people(meaning 5 channels but 4 new people as one is linked to the parent).. who know 4 DIFFERENT people and so on.
5
20
80
320
1280
5120
20480
in 6 hops you reach a capacity of ~20k people.. but only one route to get from one end of the network to the other

now if you have 5 channels but they are not all to new unique people. but aswell as using a channel to backchannel to the parent. one of the 5 channels is also connected to soneone else . thus allowing for 2 routes somewhere in the network
5
15
45
135
405
1215
3645
10935

in 7 hops you reach a capacity of ~11k people.. but only maybe 2 routes to get from one end of the network to the other

this is somthing people can do without even using LN. use some paper and pen and draw dots and lines.. doing on graphics/doodling apps. if you prefer to do the math instead of image format.. then do it on excel.
you will see the limitations

people really should run scenarios. use it. or think about it.. rather then promote it as the unlimited flawless solution without understanding its real utility limitations.

[cryptolord5]

wow that is great one, please i would like to know more about this lightning network  i have opened it but can't comprehend it can someone narrate to me more clearer.

[taquine]

wow that is great one, please i would like to know more about this lightning network  i have opened it but can't comprehend it can someone narrate to me more clearer.

I also can not understand this lightning network. there may be a smarter to be able to provide an understanding of this lightning network. understanding that is easy to understand.

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

114.81 BTC capacity ($920,707.37)
2,877 nodes
10,362 channels

2,172 public nodes
2,070 nodes with active channels
432 channels opened in 24h
287 channels closed in 24h

0.011 BTC average channel capacity ($88.85)
0.055 BTC average node capacity ($444.79)
10.01 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,638

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

116.11 BTC capacity ($956,993.10)
2,885 nodes
10,485 channels

2,176 public nodes
2,069 nodes with active channels
457 channels opened in 24h
82 channels closed in 24h

0.011 BTC average channel capacity ($91.27)
0.056 BTC BTC average node capacity ($462.54)
10.14 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,515

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

116.95 BTC capacity ($972,091.52)
2,890 nodes
10,480 channels

2,178 public nodes
2,068 nodes with active channels
331 channels opened in 24h
191 channels closed in 24h

0.011 BTC average channel capacity ($92.76)
0.057 BTC BTC average node capacity ($470.06)
10.14 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,520

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

117.62 BTC capacity ($963,460.61)
2,892 nodes
10,497 channels

2,180 public nodes
2,052 nodes with active channels
390 channels opened in 24h
265 channels closed in 24h

0.011 BTC average channel capacity ($91.78)
0.057 BTC BTC average node capacity ($469.52)
10.23 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,503

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

117.0 BTC capacity ($949,415.82)
2,893 nodes
10,457 channels

2,182 public nodes
2,040 nodes with active channels
357 channels opened in 24h
346 channels closed in 24h

0.011 BTC average channel capacity ($90.79)
0.057 BTC BTC average node capacity ($465.40)
10.25 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,543

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

118.41 BTC capacity ($977,061.50)
2,905 nodes
10,580 channels

2,190 public nodes
2,050 nodes with active channels
430 channels opened in 24h
247 channels closed in 24h

0.011 BTC average channel capacity ($92.35)
0.058 BTC average node capacity ($476.62)
10.32 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,420

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

118.34 BTC capacity ($981,067.97)
2,905 nodes
10,573 channels

2,190 public nodes
2,050 nodes with active channels
352 channels opened in 24h
296 channels closed in 24h

0.011 BTC average channel capacity ($92.79)
0.058 BTC average node capacity ($478.57)
10.32 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,427

[close up]

I wonder what does it and how does it work. And what is the difference between the lightning network and the full network blockchain?

[arde13]

I wonder what does it and how does it work. And what is the difference between the lightning network and the full network blockchain?

Do you want to know what is the Lightning Network?
Do you want to understand how it works?
Do you want to realize why it is needed and whether it is necessary at all?

Spend just 8 minutes and figure it out!
https://youtu.be/MpfvhiqFw7A

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

118.31 BTC capacity ($964,679.42)
2,908 nodes
10,644 channels

2,190 public nodes
2,054 nodes with active channels
316 channels opened in 24h
140 channels closed in 24h

0.011 BTC average channel capacity ($90.63)
0.058 BTC average node capacity ($469.66)
10.36 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,356

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

118.93 BTC capacity ($941,407.01)
2,914 nodes
10,726 channels

2,194 public nodes
2,060 nodes with active channels
294 channels opened in 24h
137 channels closed in 24h

0.011 BTC average channel capacity ($87.77)
0.058 BTC average node capacity ($456.99)
10.41 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,274

[ResuLT]

Lightning is really getting better and better and getting ready for primetime. I have yet to use it as i am more of a holder but I would use it for things like Newegg for sure.

Definitely. Lightning network will be an easiest way to keep transaction goin' on to the bitcoin blockchain without willing to set up a full node.

[arde13]

Lightning is really getting better and better and getting ready for primetime. I have yet to use it as i am more of a holder but I would use it for things like Newegg for sure.

Definitely. Lightning network will be an easiest way to keep transaction goin' on to the bitcoin blockchain without willing to set up a full node.

The Lightning Network has a slightly different application.
I call to spend very little time and understand the subject.
https://youtu.be/MpfvhiqFw7A

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

77.15 BTC capacity ($607,527.89)
2,917 nodes
10,471 channels

2,197 public nodes
2,059 nodes with active channels
337 channels opened in 24h
419 channels closed in 24h

0.007 BTC average channel capacity ($58.02)
0.037 BTC average node capacity ($295.06)
10.17 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,529

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

78.57 BTC capacity ($647,466.13)
2,925 nodes
10,556 channels

2,200 public nodes
2,064 nodes with active channels
358 channels opened in 24h
420 channels closed in 24h

0.007 BTC average channel capacity ($61.34)
0.038 BTC average node capacity ($313.69)
10.23 average channels per node

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,444

[hdtqisg]

Lightning Network's is a good way to reduce the transaction costs and time of Bitcoin network validation. Must be widely applied to be able to use bitcoin for everyday transactions!

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

79.47 BTC capacity ($649,048.04)
2,934 nodes
10,751 channels

2,206 public nodes
2,069 nodes with active channels
345 channels opened in 24h
97 channels closed in 24h

0.007 BTC average channel capacity ($60.37)
0.038 BTC average node capacity ($313.70)
10.39 average channels per node

109.7 days average node age
66.6 days average channel age
1.000000 sat median base fee ($0.000081668)

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,249

[muslol67]

I had been hoping this lighting would never come. I think it will work on the long run.

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

79.01 BTC capacity ($$645,386.15)
2,942 nodes
10,631 channels

2,212 public nodes
2,074 nodes with active channels
291 channels opened in 24h
315 channels closed in 24h

0.007 BTC average channel capacity ($60.71)
0.038 BTC average node capacity ($311.18)
10.25 average channels per node

109.8 days average node age
67.7 days average channel age
1.000000 sat median base fee ($0.000081688)

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,369

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

84.15 BTC capacity ($688,750.62)
2,955 nodes
10,786 channels

2,217 public nodes
2,080 nodes with active channels
336 channels opened in 24h
116 channels closed in 24h

0.008 BTC average channel capacity ($63.86)
0.040 BTC average node capacity ($331.13)
10.37 average channels per node

110.1 days average node age
67.3 days average channel age
1.000000 sat median base fee ($0.000081853)

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,214

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

95.10 BTC capacity ($755,707.47)
2,971 nodes
10,959 channels

2,226 public nodes
2,082 nodes with active channels
267 channels opened in 24h
152 channels closed in 24h

0.009 BTC average channel capacity ($68.96)
0.046 BTC average node capacity ($362.97)
10.53 average channels per node

110.9 days average node age
66.8 days average channel age
1.000000 sat median base fee ($0.000079466)

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,041

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

97.52 BTC capacity ($743,041.19)
2,983 nodes
10,960 channels

2,237 public nodes
2,090 nodes with active channels
142 channels opened in 24h
130 channels closed in 24h

0.009 BTC average channel capacity ($67.80)
0.047 BTC average node capacity ($355.52)
10.49 average channels per node

111.3 days average node age
67.5 days average channel age
1.000000 sat median base fee ($0.000076190)

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,040

[nguyenhoven]

Lightning network's mainnet has reached 100 BTC capacity on Jul 21!

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached (the latest up-to-date information):

97.52 BTC capacity ($743,041.19)
2,983 nodes
10,960 channels

2,237 public nodes
2,090 nodes with active channels
142 channels opened in 24h
130 channels closed in 24h

0.009 BTC average channel capacity ($67.80)
0.047 BTC average node capacity ($355.52)
10.49 average channels per node

111.3 days average node age
67.5 days average channel age
1.000000 sat median base fee ($0.000076190)

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,040

amazing, I'm really glad lightning network is kicking off. I'm just wondering how will the regulators treat this feature, jst can't get my head around it. It will take long for them to know what to do

[Ava Duvall]

Lightning Network's is a good way to reduce the transaction costs and time of Bitcoin network validation. Must be widely applied to be able to use bitcoin for everyday transactions!

That is completely right. i'm still wondering why this hasn't been implemented! it would make massive changes.

[cahbagus555]

Its good news if lightning network implemented on bitcoin because can reducing a lot cost when we make transaction. When bitcoin price increasing, transaction cost become more expensive and i think its not eficient anymore if transaction cost growing more expensive.
Lightning network hopely can be implemented on bitcoin because bitcoin transaction volume growing bigger every day

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

96.50 BTC capacity ($737,742.28)
2,991 nodes
10,948 channels

2,239 public nodes
2,097 nodes with active channels
147 channels opened in 24h
152 channels closed in 24h

0.009 BTC average channel capacity ($67.39)
0.046 BTC average node capacity ($351.81)
10.44 average channels per node

111.7 days average node age
68.0 days average channel age
1.000000 sat median base fee ($0.000076451)

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,052

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

97.19 BTC capacity ($708,655.52)
3,005 nodes
10,995 channels

2,248 public nodes
2,102 nodes with active channels
220 channels opened in 24h
145 channels closed in 24h

0.009 BTC average channel capacity ($64.45)
0.046 BTC average node capacity ($337.13)
10.46 average channels per node

112.4 days average node age
68.5 days average channel age
1.000000 sat median base fee ($0.000072917)

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,005

[BitcoinNewbie15]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

97.19 BTC capacity ($708,655.52)
3,005 nodes
10,995 channels

2,248 public nodes
2,102 nodes with active channels
220 channels opened in 24h
145 channels closed in 24h

0.009 BTC average channel capacity ($64.45)
0.046 BTC average node capacity ($337.13)
10.46 average channels per node

112.4 days average node age
68.5 days average channel age
1.000000 sat median base fee ($0.000072917)

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,005

Did the capacity drop? If I recall correctly there used to be 119 BTC or something like that, or maybe the info I received was wrong. Also, can someone inform me why one million active channels is a big deal? I honestly am "technically challenged" when it comes to the lightning network lol. Its my understanding that payment channels are funded lightning wallets that can transact between one another? And then when you send a transaction it works through a web of these payment channels to find a path to the receiver? Is it that one million channels would have a massive combination of possible "routes"? I am genuinely curious, this is something I see a lot and don't fully understand.

Thanks!

[YNAGS Team]

It is great to hear that something at least is developing while all the market is riding down. I've heard many positive reviews about lightning network, certainly need to search for a ways that I can become a part of the community.

[arde13]

Did the capacity drop? If I recall correctly there used to be 119 BTC or something like that, or maybe the info I received was wrong. Also, can someone inform me why one million active channels is a big deal? I honestly am "technically challenged" when it comes to the lightning network lol. Its my understanding that payment channels are funded lightning wallets that can transact between one another? And then when you send a transaction it works through a web of these payment channels to find a path to the receiver? Is it that one million channels would have a massive combination of possible "routes"? I am genuinely curious, this is something I see a lot and don't fully understand.

Thanks!

You are absolutely right, the capacity was 118 BTC on July 27 and fell then to 77 BTC

The number of active channels can very roughly indicate the number of network users.

And you understand everything correctly. This is how the Lightning network works with one refinement: payment channels are funded by bitcoin addresses.

[arde13]

According to https://1ml.com/statistics Lightning Network's mainnet has reached:

97.24 BTC capacity ($717,495.4)
3,011 nodes
11,097 channels

2,253 public nodes
2,103 nodes with active channels
219 channels opened in 24h
66 channels closed in 24h

0.009 BTC average channel capacity ($64.66)
0.046 BTC average node capacity ($341.18)
10.55 average channels per node

112.9 days average node age
68.4 days average channel age
1.000000 sat median base fee ($0.000073788)

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,903

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

97.57 BTC capacity ($688,267.99)
3,020 nodes
11,260 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,740

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

97.59 BTC capacity ($680,929.44)
3,030 nodes
11,202 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,798

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

97.29 BTC capacity ($686,738.87)
3,046 nodes
11,276 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,724

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

96.91 BTC capacity ($612,562.43)
3,062 nodes
11,243 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,757

[Kakmakr]

Until we have major merchants running their own LN nodes and people having direct access to their channels, this will only grow at a very slow rate. We need some Killer App that are focused on cheap micro payments for this to go viral. 

The LN wallets/software will also have to be made more user-friendly than other wallets/software for people to shift to something else. The growth is impressive, but there are no driving force to push adoption of this second layer solution. 

[franky1]

Until we have major merchants running their own LN nodes and people having direct access to their channels, this will only grow at a very slow rate. We need some Killer App that are focused on cheap micro payments for this to go viral. 

The LN wallets/software will also have to be made more user-friendly than other wallets/software for people to shift to something else. The growth is impressive, but there are no driving force to push adoption of this second layer solution. 

devs are now seeing the pitfalls. flaws and broken promises.

to receive funds people need to keep their channel online. this has come to a debate about using servers and lightwallets so people can use their phones as the payment method without needing to carry a laptop/desktop around to buy coffee on a full node. and to allow the server to manage the channel while people sleep or have their phone switched off/on charge/airplane mode/out of signal range
summary of devs: it will be more centralised than previously promised, but convenience comes at a cost

because transactions are not relayed/audited/verified by the community. and only the counterparty(s) in the channel check and sign. there are ways for malicious tweaking to occur. and unless people are checking the raw tx data of what they are contracting to. its much like signing a contract without reading the small print. thus third parties will play a bigger part in it and also KYC.
summary of devs: by avoiding blockchain there is no community consensus. thus a KYC system may need to be added for personal due diligence and to help avoid phishing and other risks of party to party malicious acts

with network stats showing that if everyone just has 2 channels open (one inbound one outbound) where the network looks like a long snake of a large single route. if the head of the snake wants to make a payment to the tail. in a 1000 node network is 1000 agreements and micro fee's to get the payment through which if someone at the stomach goes off line everyone is effected. so a average 2 channel per node is dangerous and expensive for all involved.
the average for 100 nodes is 4 channels which equates to upto 20 agreements/microfee's but offers more than one route
the average for 1000 nodes should be more around the 14 channel aim(of 3-4 hops) to keep the agreements/microfee's below 64 'hops'(2-4 channels)
summary of devs: the more people that join. the more hops are needed or the more channels per node are needed. so the hop model doesnt work without central hubs of multiple channels or each node having multiple channels to be well connected. we see things moving more towards the central hub manager model as it is more convenient than users setting up multiple channels

stats already show that although the 'contracts' are set for 2 months+ average, people will not keep their devices on 24hours/71days.
yes out of LN's 3k nodes most do. but these are majority the devs/merchants. not regular home users
EG beta game testers spend days/weeks jumping at the same wall, testing every vector. but regular users spend seconds jumping at a wall and only a couple hours before getting bored
as you can see by bitcoins mainnet.
with millions of bitcoin users there are only a dozen thousand nodes on all the time most of which are merchants/devs. but the mass majority do not stay on for months on end(under 1%)
this can cause issues. especially around node update releases where it ends up that(for full nodes) whole blockchains need to be re synced/indexed offering a malicious timed attack for some users to exploit while their counterparty is asleep. on vacation, at work or re-indexing their mainnet node due to an update, thus unable to monitor broadcasts.
summary of devs: requirement to extend the revocation period by days instead of hours or cencentrate on server management for convenience

some merchants will not want to have their internet connections occupied by 8000-1million channels direct with their customers nodes. and having to secure the connection/monitor such amount of channels day and night. so they will use third party node services to become hubs around the merchant where the hub takes all the strain and the merchant just has a couple 'trusted' service gateways it connects to.
summary of devs. like how cloudflare or bitpay take the brunt of customer demand to reduce risk of loss of funds or even DDoS the end merchant/site

there are many other risks/factors too(hyips/ponzis). although mainnet is a push network. thus those involved in HYIP/Ponzi schemes are themselves handing funds into these schemes(their own fault). but with LN's routing autopilot. hyip/ponzi's can loop random people in and extract funds out of people without them realising they have been looted via a ponzi just by the routing autopilot trick.

dont get me wrong. LN has got a niche market for a certain userbase. but it is not the solution for everyone.
where visa stats show visa is used under 90 times in 2 months per user.
having to set up 14+ channels (28 onchain transactions to open and close)  means people on average would only do 3 LN payments per onchain tx. but when the network surpasses just a few thousand nodes and more channels per node are required EG 28 channels(56 onchan tx) for 1-2 tx per channel
under 45 channels then its a 1:1 real life usage and normal people see no point in pre-planning 2 months of spending habits and setting up 45 channels when they can just send funds to the merchant onchain as and when they please at the same overall cost but without the pre planning.

lastly although LN is promised as the cheap solution. thats just the bait. come on how oftn do you see any service, whether it be train rail, bus, postage, theme park queue.. where a faster service is cheaper. we all know the market will flip where the fasters service will get expnsive de to convenience and the old slow confirmation onchain would then be still expensive but cheaper than LN, once the dynamics change due to real life consequences

[arde13]

devs are now seeing the pitfalls. flaws and broken promises...

Wow, the first time I see such a full and detailed response!

dont get me wrong. LN has got a niche market for a certain userbase. but it is not the solution for everyone.
where visa stats show visa is used under 90 times in 2 months per user.
having to set up 14+ channels (28 onchain transactions to open and close)  means people on average would only do 3 LN payments per onchain tx. but when the network surpasses just a few thousand nodes and more channels per node are required EG 28 channels(56 onchan tx) for 1-2 tx per channel
under 45 channels then its a 1:1 real life usage and normal people see no point in pre-planning 2 months of spending habits and setting up 45 channels when they can just send funds to the merchant onchain as and when they please at the same overall cost but without the pre planning

lastly although LN is promised as the cheap solution. thats just the bait. come on how oftn do you see any service, whether it be train rail, bus, postage, theme park queue.. where a faster service is cheaper. we all know the market will flip where the fasters service will get expnsive de to convenience and the old slow confirmation onchain would then be still expensive but cheaper than LN, once the dynamics change due to real life consequences

Yes, but doesn't the hub's network solve this problem?

As an ordinary user, I shouldn't create a channel with Starbucks and a taxi service. It'll be enough just a couple of channels with hubs which contact all possible service providers.

And even if one of the hubs lies under the DDoS attack or offline for any other reason, I'll just use the other hub this time.

I think that I'm weak enough in technology, so I'll be very grateful if you tell me where I'm wrong.

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

95.77 BTC capacity ($606,327.23)
3,067 nodes
11,186 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,814

[franky1]

Yes, but doesn't the hub's network solve this problem?

As an ordinary user, I shouldn't create a channel with Starbucks and a taxi service. It'll be enough just a couple of channels with hubs which contact all possible service providers.

And even if one of the hubs lies under the DDoS attack or offline for any other reason, I'll just use the other hub this time.

I think that I'm weak enough in technology, so I'll be very grateful if you tell me where I'm wrong.

the argument to go in the direction of LN was because innovating bitcoin blockchain will cause centralisation.. but.. LN WILL cause centralisation.
as you said. ud have your phones app make channels with payment gatways that will monitor your channels and be hubs to the main merchants.

on bitcoins onchain you can simply turn your phone on sign a tx with your privkey and send it to whomever whenever without other peoples consent.. thats the whole point of cryptocurrency as oppose to fiat

in LN. you cannot just turn your device on push a paymnt out and turn device off in LN in LNs old 2016 concept.

you have to have pre set up channels that for the next 2 months will hve a good high chance of being online for 2 months to the services (starbucks/taxi) you want. and you have to fund those channels and lock those funds to those channel for them 2 months.

EG imagine you think you will spend $3 a day for 2 months on coffee. and $20 a day on taxi
(total funds locked for 2 months. c:$180 t:$1200)

now imagine you only have 2 channels. one to a hub that manages starbucks and another that manages taxi

starbucks [x - y] coinbase [$0 - $180] you [1200-0] bitpay [a -b] taxi

so you take a taxi into town
starbucks [x - y] coinbase [$0 - $180] you [1190-10] bitpay [a-10 -b+10] taxi

so you buy a coffee
starbucks [x+$3 - y-$3] coinbase [$3 - $177] you [1190-10] bitpay [a-10 -b+10] taxi

so do whatever else during the day and then take taxi home
starbucks [x+$3 - y-$3] coinbase [$3 - $177] you [1180-20] bitpay [a-20 -b+20] taxi

lets imagine bitpay went offline
starbucks [x+$3 - y-$3] coinbase [$3 - $177] you

you now only have $177 available. you can hope that coinbase has a route to taxi via other means.. but your still stuck with only playing with $177
your $1180 is still locked for 59 days(plus 8hours-5business day maturity revoke period).

...
now here is the 2018 concept involving factories
lets reset the funds.. but use the more centralised 2018 concept
you know your going to spend $1380 for coffee and taxi for the next 60 days
so you onchain your funds into a Barry silbert DCG.co factory. knowing their subsiduaries are coinbase and bitpay
so you fund DCG.co factory and request the factory route to coinbase and bitpay to pay you the amounts
                                 [$0-$180] DCG.co [$1200-0]
                              /                                          \
starbucks [x - y] coinbase [not open] you [not open] bitpay [a -b] taxi

                                [$180-$0] DCG.co [$0-$1200]
                              /                                          \
starbucks [x - y] coinbase [$180 -$0] you [$0-$1200] bitpay [a -b] taxi

                                [$180-$0] DCG.co [$0-$1200]
                              /                                          \
starbucks [x - y] coinbase [$0 -$180] you [$1200-$0] bitpay [a -b] taxi

so now you are at the state before buying your first taxi into town to buy first coffee.. so now you can pretend DCG.co doesnt exist
now if bitpay went offline. because the channel setup is not a onchain locked funds of $1180 after first days travel. you can close the channel and then those funds dont go back to you onchain. they go back to the factory where you request the factory funds coinbase and cinbase funds you

                                        [$180-$0] DCG.co [$1180-$20]  - (bitpay keps the $20)
                                       /                                          \
starbucks [x+$3 - y-$3] coinbase [$3 - $177] you [not open] bitpay [a-20 -b+20] taxi

                                        [$180-$1180] DCG.co [$0-$20]
                                       /                                          \
starbucks [x+$3 - y-$3] coinbase [$3 - $177] you [not open] bitpay [a-20 -b+20] taxi

                                             [$1360-$0] DCG.co [$0-$20]
                                          /                                          \
starbucks [x+$3 - y-$3] coinbase [$1183 - $177] you [not open] bitpay [a-20 -b+20] taxi

                                             [$1360-$0] DCG.co [$0-$20]
                                          /                                          \
starbucks [x+$3 - y-$3] coinbase [$3 - $1357] you [not open] bitpay [a-20 -b+20] taxi

...
all of which is so you have 'convenience' ... but. your $1380 is locked into DCG.co for 2 months. and have to rely on dcg, coinbase and bitpay to stay online and sign EVERY payment you want to send

EVERY PAYMENT
which is no better than the fiat banking system.
hubs become the 'bank branches' factories become the bank HQ
and you then become reliant on other parties having to authorise movements of funds you THOUGHT you had full control of bt no longer do in LN

bitcoin and crypto currency was invented to avoid using services that require authorisation by other parties.
bitcoins onchain innovation has been stifled and stagnated to suggest the future is to go back to the old way things worked. purely for "convenience"

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

95.03 BTC capacity ($578,416.76)
3,081 nodes
11,209 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,791

[hatshepsut93]

Until we have major merchants running their own LN nodes and people having direct access to their channels, this will only grow at a very slow rate. We need some Killer App that are focused on cheap micro payments for this to go viral. 

The LN wallets/software will also have to be made more user-friendly than other wallets/software for people to shift to something else. The growth is impressive, but there are no driving force to push adoption of this second layer solution. 

Keep in mind that LN is still in beta, and I personally don't want to see any big merchants and mass adoption now, because if there are some nasty bugs that will make people users lose money, it will negatively reflect on the whole project for a long time, like it happens with Ethereum and its bugged wallets. It's clear that Lightning developers are working very hard and are making great progress, so we should give them time instead of constantly asking when it will be ready and trying to hurry them up.

[arde13]

EVERY PAYMENT
which is no better than the fiat banking system.
hubs become the 'bank branches' factories become the bank HQ
and you then become reliant on other parties having to authorise movements of funds you THOUGHT you had full control of bt no longer do in LN

bitcoin and crypto currency was invented to avoid using services that require authorisation by other parties.
bitcoins onchain innovation has been stifled and stagnated to suggest the future is to go back to the old way things worked. purely for "convenience"

Thank you for your explanation! The factory concept is new to me, so I have to research.
The situation that you suggested looks like a special case and for certain in due course, there will be a decision of this problem.

I'm very interested in your comparison of LN nodes (factories) with bank branches and between them, there is one very significant difference IMHO.

Banks:
Yes, they agree to pay for my coffee and taxi, but only under the condition of KYC and the opportunity to challenge my property in court.
What happens if I offer my BTC as collateral?
- they will refuse, even if I pass the KYC and AML
Why?
- simply because they will not be able to take away my BTC, even by a court decision

Lightning Network Hubs:
Ready to pay for my coffee and taxi using BTC as collateral (the very simplified essence of the LN)
No KYC, no AML.

I agree LN is more centralized then BTC network. But it does not go to any comparison with the existing banking system in which I, as a matter of fact, do not own anything.

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

95.27 BTC capacity ($602,304.64)
3,090 nodes
11,145 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,855

[kiatitami]

The statistics I never believed in them, maybe they have adjusted and how they do the statistical survey how no one knows

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

80.98 BTC capacity ($522,521.44)
3,100 nodes
11,097 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,903

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

82.78 BTC capacity ($498,479.68)
3,108 nodes
11,142 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,858

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

83.85 BTC capacity ($528,840.00)
3,125 nodes
11,113 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,887

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

84.01 BTC capacity ($540,773.64)
3,143 nodes
11,182 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,818

[hometester]

I remember many who said that this will solve the problem with the scalability of bitcoin, but for some reason it does not add the price of bitcoin

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

84.17 BTC capacity ($545,925.62)
3,165 nodes
11,233 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,767

[flowers5]

Each day Bitcoin grows closer and closer to the main stream.  It will not be long now until Bitcoin reaches the TPS that we need to go live across the worlds population.  Very exciting tech developments. 

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

85.46 BTC capacity ($545,185.26)
3,177nodes
11,357 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,643

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

85.52 BTC capacity ($551,042.77)
3,186 nodes
11,378 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,622

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

84.99 BTC capacity ($551,042.77)
3,196 nodes
11,313 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,687

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

85.77 BTC capacity ($572,702.59)
3,211 nodes
11,415 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,585

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

86.87 BTC capacity ($564,148.54)
3,236 nodes
11,508 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,492

[franky1]

I'm very interested in your comparison of LN nodes (factories) with bank branches and between them, there is one very significant difference IMHO.
Lightning Network Hubs:
No KYC, no AML.

1. you cant just have funds and throw it at a destination when using LN.
   a) first you need to lock your funds into a contract. which gives a scond party duel signature control of.(setting up a bank account)
   b) then you need to route your funds from the factory(central deposit) to a hub(choosing which regional bank branch you wish to frequent most often)
   c) then when spending the funds that were allocated to your local bank branch account(channel). the hub needs to sign off on it.
   d) and so does every attached hub on the route to the destination.. and
   d) even the destination needs a hub manager to be awake and online to accept payment because your destined friend may be asleep
   e) where things like banking hours may develop where not everyone is online all the time so certain times of day become better to transact(best routes)

as for AMLKYC
go research into latest regulatory reports about making it compulsory for "custodians" to KYC... look at the new crypto companies starting up that are not doing finance but doing identity.. where do you think they link into the picture..

here is what will happen
factoris will register as custodians and do KYC. and be allowed to handle large amounts of funding. they however need to register thier channel partners who also reach a certain value limit to avoid AML alerts. and if the network overview shows they have channeled to a node that has high value but cant be KYC'd the factories will rfuse to channel with them to avoid being alerted as a possible AML risk.

eventually nodes with high value but no KYC wont find acceptable channel partners. and as we all should know by now, due to the 8 degrees of separation theory. (some say lower numbr) everyone including the small value channels will be KYC'd due to thier near partnerage of a registered AMLKYC factory/watchtower


last point.
if you think LN is going to be more private and 'off the grid' .. think again. just look at the stats that get posted.
nodes are PUBLICLY publishling their holdings, numbers of channels and values in each.
if LN was more private than onchain. none of the stats would be able to be published.

[cdoyle14]

It feels like the lightning network was something non-significant and nobody saw it, but now I see it gaining popularity day by day. I really wish that lightning would be prospective because I do believe in that Project.

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

88.29 BTC capacity ($587,239.37)
3,254 nodes
11,556 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,444

[arde13]

you cant just have funds and throw it at a destination when using LN...

Thank you for the explanation of your point of view.
I agree with almost everything at this moment.

If we are trying to predict how the LN will work in the future, then again, I agree with you that the KYC/AML might be mandatory.
Also, I guess that the network operation scheme will be improved and it is possible that throwing money at the direction will be simplified for the end user, as it happened in due time with the Internet protocols.

And one thing to think about: not one bank or any other service will ever agree to pay for my coffee on bail for my bitcoins without LN or a similar system.

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

87.83 BTC capacity ($608,488.50)
3,276 nodes
11,565 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,435

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

97.67 BTC capacity ($714,050.57)
3,325 nodes
11,834 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,166

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

100.68 BTC capacity ($714,050.57)
3,334 nodes
11,950 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 988,052

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

101.09 BTC capacity ($647,666.28)
3,373 nodes
10,675 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 989,325

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

105.19 BTC capacity ($677,658.27)
3,390 nodes
12,026 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 987,974

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

113.59 BTC capacity ($703,075.60)
3,414 nodes
12,199 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 987,801

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

115.65 BTC capacity ($727,540.18)
3,433 nodes
12,306 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 987,694

[arde13]

The new Lightning app, powered by the Neutrino light client


This release includes a complete redesign and optimized backend targeted toward light clients



As Bitcoin and Lightning are reliant on complex cryptographic protocols, it’s essential to expose only what’s necessary to users and give a clear explanation of what’s going on. In the screenshot above, we use the wording “Recovery Phrase” instead of “Mnemonic Seed” which is often found in other wallet apps. Not only does this describe to the user why this is important in a clear manner, it’s also terminology that might be familiar to the user from Hardware wallets like Ledger or the Apple account “Recovery Key”.



In the screenshot of the channels list the user can see where their funds are currently allocated. Our intention is for dark mode screens to become less prominent over time as the Lightning protocol and infrastructure matures to the point that users don’t have to worry about them at all and payments “just work”.



Although users can easily toggle between fiat or BTC with a click on the home screen, we’re planning to experiment with displaying the user’s local fiat currency by default.


Try the alpha release on testnet today!

This concludes the overview of our new desktop app. The application code is open source and licensed under GPLv3. To try the alpha release on testnet, just do the following:

Download the latest release for your OS: https://github.com/lightninglabs/lightning-app/releases
Head on over to a faucet and fund your wallet with testnet BTC: https://testnet.coinfaucet.eu/en/
Wait a few minutes for the wallet to sync. Once completed, the app will open payment channels automatically. The funding transactions need to confirm just like regular on-chain transactions.
Go to a site that supports Lightning like Yalls and buy something: https://testnet.yalls.org

Full article: https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2018/09/10/lightning-app.html

[Nellayar]

wow that is great one, please i would like to know more about this lightning network  i have opened it but can't comprehend it can someone narrate to me more clearer.

Me too because I do not have deeper understanding about the technicalities of cryptocurrency. However, I knew how lightning works will help the bitcoin to perform a fast and easy transaction. It will give an easy and functional system for two individual person that will make the transaction using bitcoin.

[franky1]

arde
i know light wallet phone apps are for common people. but i wouldnt be to rushing into "just works"
the full decentralised desktop nodes will tinker with the code and change opcodes and other things to gain the upper hand of transactions. so it is still best to have a feature where users can see what they are signing(rax tx) rather than just have everything on autopilot/auto accept

even if we totally forget about bugs, changing opcodes. .. and just think about the auto accept/autopilot of routing funds...
you can get played

me1 [0.15 <:> 0.15] you [0.15 <:> 0.15]me2

me1 can you send me2 payment of 0.15
me1 [0.00 <:> 0.30] you [0.00 <:> 0.30] me2

me2 i close channel thank you for the free* 0.3  *ill explain this below
me2:  "random announcement: if 2 people connect to arde and send 0.15each to me1. they can later HYIP arde into turning each of your 0.15 into 0.3


me1 [0.00 <:> 0.30] you [0.15 <:> 0.15] HYIP1
                                      [0.15 <:> 0.15] HYIP2

HYIP1 can you send me1 payment of 0.15
HYIP1 can you send me1 payment of 0.15

me1 [0.30 <:> 0.00] you [0.30 <:> 0.00] HYIP1
                                      [0.30 <:> 0.00] HYIP2


me1 closes channel... yep thank you for the free coin...
me1 started with deposit 0.15.. ended with withdrawal 0.3
me2 started with deposit 0.15.. ended with withdrawal 0.3

total gain 0.3

[lightningslotmachine]

Has anyone done the math to see when we will hit a 1 million active channels with the current rate of progress?

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

115.79 BTC capacity ($748,669.66)
3,454 nodes
12,435 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 987,565

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

114.95 BTC capacity ($745,531.11)
3,475 nodes
12,397 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 987,603

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

114.31 BTC capacity ($718,683.65)
3,493 nodes
12,386 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 987,614

[arde13]

According to Lightning Network Info mainnet has reached:

111.85 BTC capacity ($709,365.01)
3,509 nodes
12,066 channels

Countdown to 1 million active channels: 987,934