Help Ukrainian people! ATTANTION WE HAVE THE deceiver!!!

[Kiki112]

Hypothetically... What would happen if the government of Ukraine is proEU (using the same way of suppressing demonstrations) and protesters are pro-Russia (using the same way of protest)? Would you judge them the same or not?

we would judge them the same

goverments are supposed to inforce the will of their people no matter how different from their own opinion it can be!

[1713546163]

1713546163

[Anon136]

Come to Kiev and see what people are fighting! In another you do not understand.

i understand that you are fighting against repressive sociopath assholes. my argument was not that you aren't. my argument was that there is no point in seeking to replace them with new rulers. power corrupts and so what ever new person you give power to will also become corrupted. if you want freedom than replacing existing rulers with new rulers will never have that effect. if you want freedom than you have to reject rulership in general, not rulership from one particular group of rulers.

The system in Ukraine is basically Feudalism.

Have you wondered how they survive on those extremely low wages that wouldn't even pay for food? The free market! Or, a giant cash economy where everyone avoids paying tax so that their oppressors don't get too much. Everyone pays everyone else with bribes.

Since the Ukrainian government appears to have a military aiming guns at its own people, that means 2 things:
1) it's extremely undemocratic.
2) their government is acting like a private corporation with a private army.

Libertarian paradise!

libertarians propose a system of competing firms providing these services. as near as i can tell the citizens of Ukraine are not free to opt out of paying for the "protection" services provided by their government in favor of purchasing the services of a competing protection agency instead.

[coa032]

Believe me,same situation happened 2000 here in Serbia and from that day we live worse then we lived before 2000. Well I was I kid then but that's what everyone here in Serbia talking about. All politicians in Serbia are paid from America and EU to destroy Serbia, they've given our part of territory Kosovo,they sold everything they can and also wages are much worse than 14 years ago. Believe me, this is all manipulation by America and EU they've paid 90% there to shoot on police and destroy the whole country, and believe me that you will regret if your opposition win "the battle". Orthodox brothers, you have our support, kill all that terrorists and turn to Russia. Without European union!!

[blablahblah]

Come to Kiev and see what people are fighting! In another you do not understand.

i understand that you are fighting against repressive sociopath assholes. my argument was not that you aren't. my argument was that there is no point in seeking to replace them with new rulers. power corrupts and so what ever new person you give power to will also become corrupted. if you want freedom than replacing existing rulers with new rulers will never have that effect. if you want freedom than you have to reject rulership in general, not rulership from one particular group of rulers.

The system in Ukraine is basically Feudalism.

Have you wondered how they survive on those extremely low wages that wouldn't even pay for food? The free market! Or, a giant cash economy where everyone avoids paying tax so that their oppressors don't get too much. Everyone pays everyone else with bribes.

Since the Ukrainian government appears to have a military aiming guns at its own people, that means 2 things:
1) it's extremely undemocratic.
2) their government is acting like a private corporation with a private army.

Libertarian paradise!

libertarians propose a system of competing firms providing these services. as near as i can tell the citizens of Ukraine are not free to opt out of paying for the "protection" services provided by their government in favor of purchasing the services of a competing protection agency instead.

So tax-avoidance and arming the opposition doesn't count as competition against "Janukovich Enterprises"?

[blablahblah]

Believe me,same situation happened 2000 here in Serbia and from that day we live worse then we lived before 2000. Well I was I kid then but that's what everyone here in Serbia talking about. All politicians in Serbia are paid from America and EU to destroy Serbia, they've given our part of territory Kosovo,they sold everything they can and also wages are much worse than 14 years ago. Believe me, this is all manipulation by America and EU they've paid 90% there to shoot on police and destroy the whole country, and believe me that you will regret if your opposition win "the battle". Orthodox brothers, you have our support, kill all that terrorists and turn to Russia. Without European union!!

I bet you guys don't even know that Putin was a KGB murderer.

[Snorek]

Putin, and most of high political class in Russia comes from former secret agencies, no suprise there. There is no democracy in Russia, there is no freedom and Russia will never let go of Ukraine ;-)

[coa032]

Believe me,same situation happened 2000 here in Serbia and from that day we live worse then we lived before 2000. Well I was I kid then but that's what everyone here in Serbia talking about. All politicians in Serbia are paid from America and EU to destroy Serbia, they've given our part of territory Kosovo,they sold everything they can and also wages are much worse than 14 years ago. Believe me, this is all manipulation by America and EU they've paid 90% there to shoot on police and destroy the whole country, and believe me that you will regret if your opposition win "the battle". Orthodox brothers, you have our support, kill all that terrorists and turn to Russia. Without European union!!

I bet you guys don't even know that Putin was a KGB murderer.

We are very good informed about politics and Putin...Russians are our brothers.

[Lanochka]

Believe me,same situation happened 2000 here in Serbia and from that day we live worse then we lived before 2000. Well I was I kid then but that's what everyone here in Serbia talking about. All politicians in Serbia are paid from America and EU to destroy Serbia, they've given our part of territory Kosovo,they sold everything they can and also wages are much worse than 14 years ago. Believe me, this is all manipulation by America and EU they've paid 90% there to shoot on police and destroy the whole country, and believe me that you will regret if your opposition win "the battle". Orthodox brothers, you have our support, kill all that terrorists and turn to Russia. Without European union!!

We don't wan't the win of opposition or any other side, and we don't fight for them, or for the EU association. All we want is simple justice in our country, and current authority unfortunatelly can't give it.

[coa032]

Believe me,same situation happened 2000 here in Serbia and from that day we live worse then we lived before 2000. Well I was I kid then but that's what everyone here in Serbia talking about. All politicians in Serbia are paid from America and EU to destroy Serbia, they've given our part of territory Kosovo,they sold everything they can and also wages are much worse than 14 years ago. Believe me, this is all manipulation by America and EU they've paid 90% there to shoot on police and destroy the whole country, and believe me that you will regret if your opposition win "the battle". Orthodox brothers, you have our support, kill all that terrorists and turn to Russia. Without European union!!

We don't wan't the win of opposition or any other side, and we don't fight for them, or for the EU association. All we want is simple justice in our country, and current authority unfortunatelly can't give it.

I know that you are desperate and you believe that your current standard in ukraine is horrible, but believe me it will only get worse if you turn to EU. As I said they use the same recipe every time. From 2000 we turned to EU(we belived that we will live better) and till now corruption in Serbia grow constantly,wages drops, from 7 millions people 20,1% don't have a job. We lose our territory Kosovo, killers kill people and get 1 year in prison ( for exaple if you kill thief in your house you go to jail ) but those who have money dont go to jail anyway. Those who have money earn more money,those who haven't they desperately do everything for money etc.

[Lanochka]

Believe me,same situation happened 2000 here in Serbia and from that day we live worse then we lived before 2000. Well I was I kid then but that's what everyone here in Serbia talking about. All politicians in Serbia are paid from America and EU to destroy Serbia, they've given our part of territory Kosovo,they sold everything they can and also wages are much worse than 14 years ago. Believe me, this is all manipulation by America and EU they've paid 90% there to shoot on police and destroy the whole country, and believe me that you will regret if your opposition win "the battle". Orthodox brothers, you have our support, kill all that terrorists and turn to Russia. Without European union!!

We don't wan't the win of opposition or any other side, and we don't fight for them, or for the EU association. All we want is simple justice in our country, and current authority unfortunatelly can't give it.

I know that you are desperate and you believe that your current standard in ukraine is horrible, but believe me it will only get worse if you turn to EU. As I said they use the same recipe every time. From 2000 we turned to EU(we belived that we will live better) and till now corruption in Serbia grow constantly,wages drops, from 7 millions people 20,1% don't have a job. We lose our territory Kosovo, killers kill people and get 1 year in prison ( for exaple if you kill thief in your house you go to jail ) but those who have money dont go to jail anyway. Those who have money earn more money,those who haven't they desperately do everything for money etc.

BANDITS on the streets killing ordinary people Now . Then there are you offer us just be cannon fodder?









little boy















It's terrible!!!
We DO NOT have a civil war, we  have genocide.

[coa032]

Yup, I've saw in the news that fu**ing lie about that girl who was shot in the neck and she tweeted that she is dying. You must be a retard to believe in that story. Also what do you expect to shoot on police,throw molotov cocktails on them etc and to dont get killed? I would send an army on that terrorists if I were president. And don't tell me what is genocide if anybody knows that,that is our country.

[Lanochka]

Yup, I've saw in the news that fu**ing lie about that girl who was shot in the neck and she tweeted that she is dying. You must be a retard to believe in that story. Also what do you expect to shoot on police,throw molotov cocktails on them etc and to dont get killed? I would send an army on that terrorists if I were president. And don't tell me what is genocide if anybody knows that,that is our country.

Shame on you! This is true official information. This is girl in the hospital now, in very serious condition. Media broadcasts you complete lie.  You are not here and do not know anything, so do not spread false information. You are not Ukrainian, you are not in Kiev now. If you want to interfere in this matter, Come here, see yourself!

[coa032]

Sure, I wont post here anymore. Just remember my word, you will live 10x worse if opposition win. Believe me they don't care about people's lives,they just don't care. I m sorry for that girl if that is true,but this is all setup. All wars are classic setup,just see what happened with Libya recently. I have friend from there and he said that people live 10x worse because they were forced to accept American democracy. Bullshit, if this happens in US they would send army to kill all people and no one would be responsible, that is their democracy. Where is your Klitschko? He is sitting in Germany and "negotiating" while peoples dying. Don't be stupid,all of this is planned. They just care about money and power

[Lanochka]

I repeat, people are fighting for the freedom, not for the opposition!

[Anon136]

Come to Kiev and see what people are fighting! In another you do not understand.

i understand that you are fighting against repressive sociopath assholes. my argument was not that you aren't. my argument was that there is no point in seeking to replace them with new rulers. power corrupts and so what ever new person you give power to will also become corrupted. if you want freedom than replacing existing rulers with new rulers will never have that effect. if you want freedom than you have to reject rulership in general, not rulership from one particular group of rulers.

The system in Ukraine is basically Feudalism.

Have you wondered how they survive on those extremely low wages that wouldn't even pay for food? The free market! Or, a giant cash economy where everyone avoids paying tax so that their oppressors don't get too much. Everyone pays everyone else with bribes.

Since the Ukrainian government appears to have a military aiming guns at its own people, that means 2 things:
1) it's extremely undemocratic.
2) their government is acting like a private corporation with a private army.

Libertarian paradise!

libertarians propose a system of competing firms providing these services. as near as i can tell the citizens of Ukraine are not free to opt out of paying for the "protection" services provided by their government in favor of purchasing the services of a competing protection agency instead.

So tax-avoidance and arming the opposition doesn't count as competition against "Janukovich Enterprises"?

That"s a very interesting question. I'll have to think about it. There is certainly a parallel there, that i will grant. Either way the people do not have the right mentality for this presently violent "competition" to settle into a non violent competitive market. With the sort of mentality that people have now the present state of violent competition will inevitably either fail to settle into a system of non market competition or collapse into monopoly.

[Anon136]

I repeat, people are fighting for the freedom, not for the opposition!

yea you are master of catechism. we get it. all you have to do is label something and then that makes it the thing you label it.

[coa032]

I repeat, people are fighting for the freedom, not for the opposition!

Yeah,we were also thinking that we are fighting for the freedom,but believe me you're not fighting for freedom. I said already we were in the 100% same situation as you are,same. Just type in google 5 october 2000. But this time is much worse because you are rich country and in better geo strategic position than us. They are destroying you inside and I know that you don't believe but wait for few year and you will see if you become proEU oriented. You think that you are fighting for freedom as we were ,bu you are fighting for opposition(you just dont know that yet). Sorry for my english this is not my native language,but I hope that you will understand me.

[dank]

Come to Kiev and see what people are fighting! In another you do not understand.

Anon has it right.  The thing is, this has happened over and over throughout history.  The reason it keeps happening over and over again is because whenever there is a revolution, a new set of rulers comes in only to become drunk with power, and the process repeats.

If you guys stand up to fight for no government at all, then there will be nobody in that position to become a tyrant in the first place.  The problem is well beyond your current government, it is all governments that oppress their people.

The only way to be truly free is anarchy.  Otherwise, you will still have a governing entity who continues to exert force through violence.

[Lanochka]

Come to Kiev and see what people are fighting! In another you do not understand.

Anon has it right.  The thing is, this has happened over and over throughout history.  The reason it keeps happening over and over again is because whenever there is a revolution, a new set of rulers comes in only to become drunk with power, and the process repeats.

If you guys stand up to fight for no government at all, then there will be nobody in that position to become a tyrant in the first place.  The problem is well beyond your current government, it is all governments that oppress their people.

The only way to be truly free is anarchy.  Otherwise, you will still have a governing entity who continues to exert force through violence.

Read above.

I'm sick of , to say that we are defending our lives.