Are most of the POOLs owned by theives?

[brooklynite]

Hi There,

So I am new to mining but in the past two months I have noticed a significant difference in the payout of different pools. For example:

Doge:
Coinwarz calculator says my 2500kh/s system should get about 68k in DOGE per 24 hours. That is average for the past 24 hours, the current rate may be higher or lower. I have tried several doge pools including:
https://pool.dogechain.info
http://multipool.us
give me 50 to 60% of thatt, I mean you want to steal a bit, its ok, but 50%??
I don't remember the rest of them but eventually I found a pool that pays very close to what I should get.

So finally I switched to: https://dogehouse.org and it is paying me close to what I calculate.

NETCOIN:
I started with net.smalltimeminer.com was again paying me close to HALF of what I was mining. After switching to multiple pools and getting similar theft results, I found http://bitcoop.tk/ and it is paying me close to what I am supposed to get.

Before you jump into the conclusion and tell me the difficulty changes all the time blah blah, I know that and I take that into consideration. I also know all pools have the same difficulty at the same time so the payout should be similar. The difference is NOT 50% plus I ran these pools that I mentioned CONCURRENTLY, not even rotating, so two GPUs on one pool and two other GPUs on the other. The results were outstanding. The pools I noted were paying me HALF after 24 hours.

I think the cryptocurrency started off with a major flaw and that is the fact that solo mining doesnt work for most people. Why does DOGE release ONE block of 500,000? Why cant doge release 500,000 block of one coin? If it did, then we didnt have to join pools. Yes the confirmations would take WAY longer and that was just a hypothetical example but this is really frustrating. Every time I want to mine a new coin I have to search for an honest pool. Its getting ridiculous. I'm so upset for mining at multipool for a month.

Any comments, specially from the pool owners, is appreciated.

[1715592566]

1715592566

[Predseda4D]

But do you know that DOGE has reward per block between 1 and 1 000 000 DOGE? It is not 500 000 DOGE per block. So sometimes you are lucky with rewards > 500 000 DOGE per block, but sometimes you get < 500 000 DOGE per block.

[brooklynite]

Ok almost a month has gone by and no comments on this thread. Are you guys all good with your pools?

I just went through another few exercises with LEAF. I mined when difficulty dictated about 10K coins/hour for three hours. The result is 15K coins instead of 30k.

It is very frustrating to see how pools are robbing miners and amazingly no one cares. Even this thread didnt get much attention. It is so easy to cheat by changing the payout percentage, like defining a

[Lauda]

The pools usually have a 1-2% fee, that is all.

[MashRinx]

I am guessing that most pools do not take into account the block speed and the % of stales in those estimate calculations.  Just within the last couple days I was mining on a pool that had the reward wrong on the coin I was mining by HALF, so my rewards were less than half of those stated.

I have NO doubt that there are pool operators who are skimming off the top.  Do your own research and understand how stales and block times work into the equation, but never expect the estimates are anything more than just that - estimates.

[digger]

mine dogecoin http://dog.ltcoin.net

[brooklynite]

I am guessing that most pools do not take into account the block speed and the % of stales in those estimate calculations.  Just within the last couple days I was mining on a pool that had the reward wrong on the coin I was mining by HALF, so my rewards were less than half of those stated.

I have NO doubt that there are pool operators who are skimming off the top.  Do your own research and understand how stales and block times work into the equation, but never expect the estimates are anything more than just that - estimates.

The stales, orphans, hash rate fluctuation, pool fees, TX fees all add up to maybe 5%. I am talking about 50% less coins received from the pool compared to what coinwarz calculates as daily avg, not even considering the spikes.

multipool.us is one of the worst in my experience.

I guess there is no limit to GREED.

[AtlantisPlatform]

I am guessing that most pools do not take into account the block speed and the % of stales in those estimate calculations.  Just within the last couple days I was mining on a pool that had the reward wrong on the coin I was mining by HALF, so my rewards were less than half of those stated.

I have NO doubt that there are pool operators who are skimming off the top.  Do your own research and understand how stales and block times work into the equation, but never expect the estimates are anything more than just that - estimates.

The stales, orphans, hash rate fluctuation, pool fees, TX fees all add up to maybe 5%. I am talking about 50% less coins received from the pool compared to what coinwarz calculates as daily avg, not even considering the spikes.

multipool.us is one of the worst in my experience.

I guess there is no limit to GREED.

If you think multipool is bad, try doge coin on poolerino pool, over 48 hours of steady mining at 5 m/h  I got 80% less doge's than coinwarz or pool estimate was.

[ahmed_bodi]

theres a thing called variance and pool hash. you should really look into it

[Vivisector999]

You do realize Coinwarz calculator is not an actual measure you can base anything off of don't you?

The entire cryptocurrency game revolves around luck.  Something Coinwarz has no calculations for.  That and how large the pool is compared to the network.  For the most part a pool doesn't pay you anything unless someone in the pool finds a block.  If there is no block found, there is no payment.  If you are on 1 pool that has 25% of the hash rate, and another that has 1% of the network hash rate, on average the 25% pool will find more blocks.  Will it find exactly 25 block for every 100 blocks released.  More than likely not.  If the large pool only finds 10 blocks that day instead of the 25 that it should on average, your going to have a bad pay day that day.  If on the other hand that pool finds 35 of the blocks, your going to see about 40% more that payperiod.

On the contrary the small pool with 1% of the mining power might have many days when no blocks are found at all.  You can whine all you like, and say the pool operator stold your coins, since they didn't pay you at all, yet Coinwarz says in 24 hours you should get so many coins per 24 hours.  On the other hand some days a small pool will get lucky and find 3 blocks.  On those days you should get 300% more then usual. 

Now when you tie that to DOGE coins, and their totally random rewards.  It messes things up totally.  Coinwarz should slap themselves silly for lying to all the miners for calculating rewards for random payment coins.  DOGE does not pay 500,000 coins (Like Coinwarz says it does).  It actually "Paid" anywhere between 1 coin and 1 million coins.  Now that DOGE has hit its first halving, the reward now is actually any number between 1 and 500,000. 

So if you were on the pool again with 1% of the network hashrate, and you mined all day, and your pool found the 1 block it should get on average.  The coins going to your wallet depend again on luck to see what reward it gave you.  If it dropped you 1 coin.  Well everyone in your pool gets to share 1 DOGE that entire day.  So your payment for 24 hours even if the pool is at 100% luck and found it's 1 block, you might get 0.01 DOGE.  On the other hand, if the pool lucked out and got the big one 1,000,000 then you might get paid 10,000 DOGE.  A huge difference.

So even if you have 2 computers running on different pools, you pretty much have to have different payouts.  Having the exact same payout on 2 different pools would be harder to hit than hitting the lottery. 

Now for Multipool.  I personally don't like that pool, but for totally different reasons.  I am assuming you were mining multi-pools straight DOGE pool.  The way Multipool works is to jump the miners on a coin where the payout is the highest at a given moment.  When the main jumping pool is on DOGE, and you are on DOGE, there is a good change you could have 10% of the network hash rate which means your pool will find lots of blocks, and everyone is happy.  When the jumping pool jumps to a different coin, guess what, all the hashing power leaps to a different coin.  Your sitting there with a small faction of the hash rate for the coin, and there is a good chance the pool won't actually find a block until the jumping pool comes back and works on DOGE.  That could mean days/weeks without finding a block if a different coin has the reward that week.

Don't blame the pool operators, blame yourself for going into mining totally un-informed, and relying on a totally broken tool like the Coinwarz calculator.

PS - I don't own a pool myself, and don't know anyone that does.

[Xenopus]

Yes.

To own a pool, you need to be a thief, and have at least 16 in Charisma and Dexterity. Halflings also need 18 Strength.

[swainzag]

All the pools I have been in, you can track your KH/s, see how many shares your miner has contributed to each block to determine your payout.  That payout should then be directly deposited into your account, along with whatever donation and pool fee there is.  If there are differences in these, yeah then you might have a problem.

[hellscabane]

Yes.

To own a pool, you need to be a thief, and have at least 16 in Charisma and Dexterity. Halflings also need 18 Strength.

I wish I found this post sooner...

*clap* *clap* *clap*

If there was a post of the day on bitcointalk, you sir would have gotten it for me this last week. Thank you.