[2018-08-01] At What Level Do Institutional Buyers Join The Bitcoin Rally?

[vy99]

Article makes some good points about institutional investors and their effect on the price of Bitcoin:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/naeemaslam/2018/08/01/at-what-level-institutional-buyers-join-the-bitcoin-rally/#7b1f1def29ba

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[richardsNY]

At this point none. Institutions are mostly very conservative with their positions, where most of them thought we would visit $5000's but we went over $8000 instead. There has been some fuss going on yesterday and today about a Bitfinex whale that might be responsible for yesterday's dump. I have seen screenshots where 11,000 BTC buy orders were flashing through. If the SEC is watching, we probably have lost a couple of points when it comes to the potential ETF approval, especially so with how Bitfinex has been subject to investigation due to manipulation allegations....

[darkangel11]

At this point none. Institutions are mostly very conservative with their positions, where most of them thought we would visit $5000's but we went over $8000 instead. There has been some fuss going on yesterday and today about a Bitfinex whale that might be responsible for yesterday's dump. I have seen screenshots where 11,000 BTC buy orders were flashing through. If the SEC is watching, we probably have lost a couple of points when it comes to the potential ETF approval, especially so with how Bitfinex has been subject to investigation due to manipulation allegations....

We may still visit the 5k if all ETFs get rejected.
As for the whale there was a manipulation as there was a fake wall set up somewhere around 7800 to make people think that it's safe and then it got removed, so it didn't catch any buy orders and they broke through with ease. It was done because somebody wanted that level to break and cause a panic dump that would allow him to buy back at the lower resistance of 7300 and make some quick money. Right now is the perfect timing for those speculators to buy at resistances without fear of us going much deeper because of this specific uncertainty in the market. People are afraid to go in with a lot of money because ETF's might get rejected and cause a big correction, but they are also bullish on BTC after it showed a perfect  double bottom at 5800.

[BitHodler]

Institutions will enter silently without anyone here having a clue about what and when things happened. I however hope for people that institutional influence doesn't hit the market with full force.

The higher the price is the less incentive retailers have to buy it. Owning a whole unit of something is psychologically very important regardless of the value we're talking about.

People aren't interested in owning a small piece of a cake, they want the whole cake. There was also discussion on having the Amazon stock ($1800 per share) split up to allow retail money to flow in that stock.

Not sure if it will happen, but it's definitely interesting to follow.

[hatshepsut93]

I believe institutional investors were getting into Bitcoin for years already, they just weren't throwing billions right off the bat but instead were investing only small amounts, because Bitcoin is a high risk, high reward investment to them. Eventually they will be investing more and more as they'll see that Bitcoin is here to stay and not just some uselss fad, like haters claim it to be. But institutional investment is also tied to fundamentals and adoption, if they'll see that the number of actual users is growing and that the tech keeps improving, this can also stimulate additional institutional investments. Regulations and ETF's are not the only factors.

[1Referee]

Institutions needs proper custody solutions in order to comfortably enter this market, which none of the current exchanges can offer when it comes to large amounts. If you also take into consideration that institutions are on purposely avoiding exchanges and solely stick to private deals, you know that this industry will not get the big money in as long as these exchanges (which are all fundamentally broken) can't be trusted with large sums of funds.

That's why an ETF is a great way for them to gain long term exposure but without having to deal with shitty exchanges. Everything happens through CBOE which is one of the largest exchanges in the world. It's only a matter of time before one of the largest legacy exchanges allows Bitcoin as asset to be traded on their platform, and when that happens people will know what an institutional driven fomo run is.

[cryptofonia]

They are already here, they work on OTC market, and they trade not only crypto but crypto wallets and go under radar since they're going to manipulate the market including pressing artificial low levels of Bitcoin and other crypto.

[Harlot]

Surprised how the article didn't answer their own question in the title it is a shame to see that even Forbes is doing this kinds of misleading titles. Sadly it onlg focus again of Bitcoin ETFs as well as old news about the past movements of Bitcoin. It is like they are just recycling what they have provided before and making it look like "new" with a even catchier news headline. To tell you the truth the news article left us speculating even more on what is to come with the market.

[cryptofonia]

Surprised how the article didn't answer their own question in the title it is a shame to see that even Forbes is doing this kinds of misleading titles. Sadly it onlg focus again of Bitcoin ETFs as well as old news about the past movements of Bitcoin. It is like they are just recycling what they have provided before and making it look like "new" with a even catchier news headline. To tell you the truth the news article left us speculating even more on what is to come with the market.

but about the topic, what do you think?

[gentlemand]

Shall we see what a verified professional has to say?

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/93zypc/i_work_for_a_professional_crypto_trading_firm_ask/

The gist is - it's only on the very fringes right now. Not enough regulation, too much friction, too little security.

So pretty much what everyone already thinks.

[figmentofmyass]

you gotta consider that this isn't like a light switch being flicked on. it's not like institutions will flood the market overnight. this is a new asset class with a significantly higher risk profile than anything wall street deals with (from a conventional standpoint).

I believe institutional investors were getting into Bitcoin for years already, they just weren't throwing billions right off the bat but instead were investing only small amounts, because Bitcoin is a high risk, high reward investment to them.

this. institutions have been in the game for years. their presence has been obvious since 2014-2015, when algorithmic trading really took over the bitcoin markets. they spin off interests into new companies, too, so it's not always obvious. they are a lot of former wall street traders who have been trading this market for years as well (though not for their former companies---not officially, anyway).

[jjacob]

The price does not really matter - Institutional investors will have exposure to equity no matter what the price level is. They will just wait out the bear market, especially investors with a long-term view.
What matters is the state of the cryptomarket. Right now, it is an unregulated, risky asset class.

[Kakmakr]

Institutional investors wants protection and security, because a lot of them are using pension fund money to trade on open markets. They will not take big risks on a commodity, where large scale price manipulation is standard practice. The SEC is the safety net for them, because they make sure that financial instruments are properly regulated.

The postponement of their final announcement on Bitcoin ETFs makes sense, because they are damned if they do and also damned if they don't. If something goes wrong, the institutional investors would blame the SEC for their mistakes. 

[Carlton Banks]

If anyone really believes that institutional investors are waiting for regulatory approval, then you're all forgetting how corrupt Wall Street and the financial markets of the world are.

Business leaders often read Sun Tzu's Art of War, and an important maxim from that text is that "war is deception". If you really expect those involved in financial trading to publicly tell you important market information, you failed to understand how driven the big succeeders are. They will omit the truth and tell lies to the public constantly provided they can get away with it. Why on earth would they do anything else? They want to make money, not give others their most actionable information at their own expense.

In the history of market scandals (and the list is long), does anyone actually believe the media spin that "the bad guys tried, and failed, to cheat the system"? Think about the potential amount of fraud and deception that is simply never detected in a system that essentially relies on trust in the accounting firms (who have demonstrated that they are willing to collaborate with fraud and deceptive practices on the occasions when it's been publicly uncovered).

Given all this, it seems far more likely that the "institutional money is afraid of cryptocurrency trading" is simply a way of trying to keep the risk-averse public majority out of the crpytocurrency markets until they've used their most effective illegitimate channels to corner as much of the market as possible. Doesn't that sound more like Wall Street to you than "they're afraid of breaking the rules"? Come on now.

[1Referee]

We can't ignore Wall Street's faul play and lack or respect for regulatory rules, but institutions as in the overall meaning of the term isn't tied to just the Wall Street bad boys and similar entities.

Pension funds are just as much an institution as for example Bank of America and JPMorgan, but far less likely to act without a proper regulatory framework in place. In the same way there are more institutions waiting for something to happen on the regulatory side allowing them to counter potential risks as much as possible. These instutions (latecomers) will buy into the market at way higher levels and make sure they create a new base price, because that's always how it goes.

Every bull run results in a higher low because the one who bought at $100 sells to the one who buys it at $3000 and so forth.