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Author Topic: Is Cryptocurrency Mining Dying? GPU vs ASIC | VoskCoin Crypto Farm | August 2018  (Read 1651 times)
dagarair
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August 02, 2018, 09:17:20 PM
Last edit: August 02, 2018, 09:30:05 PM by dagarair
 #21

My thought is this:

2-3 years ago I was making 3 bucks a unit now we are making 5-7$ and people bitch.

Is it harder hell yes, is it less profitable not really.  Especially if you paid for all your stuff already  

The people that jumped on last year and were making 20-45$ a day but paid exorbitant prices are crying but all the old timers have seen it before.  We knew, or should of known, we should be saving that $ because skinny times always come.

The ASIC revolution is stupid but what you gonna do.  

It all boils down to this. If I can put one dollar in a vending machine and it pops out 2 dollars, HELL YES I will sit there all day!  Tongue

Past performance is not an indicator of future results.  The landscape has change.  Your numbers are all out of wack.  I'm making negative each day after electric cost avg of 28 cents.

Saying we make $5-7 a unit is false.  

Your vending machine analogy is stupid b/c the reality is that you gota spend $2000 for a vending machine that will only pump out $1 dollar a day and will be outdated in 2 years.  That means you lose money .

and and difficulty rises with time so therefore you get rekt even more. Miners are dumb



All I know is I make 3-4 bucks per machine a day after electric expense of roughly 2 bucks so that = 6$ per machine.  YOU might not make 6 bucks total a day but I do.  28 cents is stupid, i pay less than half that.  I have owned my equipment for years and while I upgrade all the time, I still make money.  So sux you can't make money doing it but I know I can.

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4789787.msg43227027#msg43227027
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August 02, 2018, 09:29:57 PM
 #22

I don't think that cryptocurrency mining is dying the same way i don't think Bitcoin is dying.
There will always be competition in the space, new projects are born, new ideas are in development.
More adoption + new coins =  mining! ... just a matter of time before we gonna have big gains again...IMO.
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August 02, 2018, 10:09:34 PM
 #23

if im 1 cent in the green per day then im still in business
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August 02, 2018, 10:26:44 PM
 #24

I never count the $ when mining.
I count the altcoins.
When the mined coins price is up, just sell it Grin
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August 03, 2018, 12:19:23 AM
 #25

To make this clear I don't hate "ASIC MINING" . . simply put all of the current producers are trash -- just analyze Bitmains price gouging tactics, and then they become "good guy bitmain" after their coupon airdrop to just buy more of their junk. . .

What are these price gouging tactics that Bitmain is accused of?

Bitmain is a company, and they will sell their product to the cost that the market will bear.  It’s no different than if you go to eBay to sell an old GPU, you research what the going price is for your product, what price are they actually selling, and maybe drop a few dollars or cents to make your sale a little more attractive.
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August 03, 2018, 01:36:19 AM
 #26

My thought is this:

2-3 years ago I was making 3 bucks a unit now we are making 5-7$ and people bitch.

Is it harder hell yes, is it less profitable not really.  Especially if you paid for all your stuff already  

The people that jumped on last year and were making 20-45$ a day but paid exorbitant prices are crying but all the old timers have seen it before.  We knew, or should of known, we should be saving that $ because skinny times always come.

The ASIC revolution is stupid but what you gonna do.  

It all boils down to this. If I can put one dollar in a vending machine and it pops out 2 dollars, HELL YES I will sit there all day!  Tongue

Past performance is not an indicator of future results.  The landscape has change.  Your numbers are all out of wack.  I'm making negative each day after electric cost avg of 28 cents.

Saying we make $5-7 a unit is false.  

Your vending machine analogy is stupid b/c the reality is that you gota spend $2000 for a vending machine that will only pump out $1 dollar a day and will be outdated in 2 years.  That means you lose money .

and and difficulty rises with time so therefore you get rekt even more. Miners are dumb



@cjmapope

posts like the above is actually what you were talking about we see the same thing in crypto as has bBeing in Stocks for the last 5060 years fired FUD people think if they lineup about crypto and the benefits and mining and in general how much people can make it will scare people away not understanding that there’s millions of people out there people do their own research if they want to mine they will mine lol.

the sad thing these fudsters fail to get is fellow miners gpu and even small scale farms are not the threat lool, even if every onw who had a gpu mined , its minscule hash rate and competition next to the asics.  We see what happend to the monero and etn hashrate when asics were forked out.

basically got so low on etn they had to fork back to get enough validators.  Of course this did nothing to affect the fpga hash which is why profits on xmr are still low.
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August 03, 2018, 01:40:40 AM
 #27

To make this clear I don't hate "ASIC MINING" . . simply put all of the current producers are trash -- just analyze Bitmains price gouging tactics, and then they become "good guy bitmain" after their coupon airdrop to just buy more of their junk. . .

What are these price gouging tactics that Bitmain is accused of?

Bitmain is a company, and they will sell their product to the cost that the market will bear.  It’s no different than if you go to eBay to sell an old GPU, you research what the going price is for your product, what price are they actually selling, and maybe drop a few dollars or cents to make your sale a little more attractive.

They sell the first batch high and then slash the prices of subsequent batches, people are on to them now though you would hope /shurg i got 5 k worth of coupons from them for last years s9 and D3 debacle

the A3 was the last straw for me never another toaster here.  Seems they learned a bit with the z9 and E3 but unless they gave me  coupons that refund my 100 percent losses one the d3s , which of course they won’t Im done
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August 03, 2018, 04:26:38 AM
 #28

Vosk, you need to familiarize yourself with Bettenridge's Law of Headlines:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

"If the headline asks a question, try answering 'no'. Is This the True Face of Britain's Young? (Sensible reader: No.) Have We Found the Cure for AIDS? (No; or you wouldn't have put the question mark in.) Does This Map Provide the Key for Peace? (Probably not.) A headline with a question mark at the end means, in the vast majority of cases, that the story is tendentious or over-sold. It is often a scare story, or an attempt to elevate some run-of-the-mill piece of reporting into a national controversy and, preferably, a national panic. To a busy journalist hunting for real information a question mark means 'don't bother reading this bit'."

life is boring if you live entirely within the constructs that those before you have built  Huh



Vosk, you need to familiarize yourself with Bettenridge's Law of Headlines:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

"If the headline asks a question, try answering 'no'. Is This the True Face of Britain's Young? (Sensible reader: No.) Have We Found the Cure for AIDS? (No; or you wouldn't have put the question mark in.) Does This Map Provide the Key for Peace? (Probably not.) A headline with a question mark at the end means, in the vast majority of cases, that the story is tendentious or over-sold. It is often a scare story, or an attempt to elevate some run-of-the-mill piece of reporting into a national controversy and, preferably, a national panic. To a busy journalist hunting for real information a question mark means 'don't bother reading this bit'."

I get this is a quote as I read through the wikipedia article, thanks for that... But the quote should be changed for modern times.

Quote
"If the headline asks a question, try answering 'no'. Is This the True Face of Britain's Young? (Sensible reader: No.) Have We Found the Cure for AIDS? (No; or you wouldn't have put the question mark in.) Does This Map Provide the Key for Peace? (Probably not.) A headline with a question mark at the end means, in the vast majority of cases, that the story is tendentious, over-sold or click-bait. It is often a scare story, or an attempt to elevate some run-of-the-mill piece of reporting into a national controversy and, preferably, a national panic. To a busy journalist hunting for real information a question mark means 'don't bother reading this bit'."


What is an alternative title you would have chosen for distribution on the YouTube platform?

Well I think you said it in the next message:  "This video is just my farm update and I share my input on the current state of mining and a story to help illustrate my stance on GPU vs ASIC."     Which could easily be shortened to "Mining Farm Update - Current State of Mining and GPU vs ASIC"  Much more informative title, not to mention relevant and not full of fake drama.  I wouldn't exactly consider a good title as "living entirely in the constructs others have created."   Take this for example:  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Is+mining+dying   Do you honestly think any of those videos are worth watching?  Its all a bunch of low quality garbage.  I am giving this as constructive criticism though because I think you have by far the best crypto channel on youtube.  Ironically halfway down the search page is another one of your videos entitled "What its been like Mining CryptoCurrency in 2017 - Bitcoin, Ethereum, Zcash"  Much better title.  I just don't want to see you fall into the trap that all of these other clowns have. 
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August 03, 2018, 05:18:23 AM
 #29

Miners are not dumb we are pioneers. Crypto currencies and blockchain are a long term horizon. It's about patience.

But we must stop contributing to centralized networks. Mine on coinfoundry.org stay away from the big megalithic pools. Blockchain won't maintain its value if we let the networks become controlled by Bitmain or any megalithic hashing pool. Coinfoundry.org has a great track record but needs more hash to make ethereum viable.

lol nano pool waa small back in the day, they all get large eventually
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August 03, 2018, 05:29:31 AM
 #30

To make this clear I don't hate "ASIC MINING" . . simply put all of the current producers are trash -- just analyze Bitmains price gouging tactics, and then they become "good guy bitmain" after their coupon airdrop to just buy more of their junk. . .

What are these price gouging tactics that Bitmain is accused of?

Bitmain is a company, and they will sell their product to the cost that the market will bear.  It’s no different than if you go to eBay to sell an old GPU, you research what the going price is for your product, what price are they actually selling, and maybe drop a few dollars or cents to make your sale a little more attractive.

They sell the first batch high and then slash the prices of subsequent batches, people are on to them now though you would hope /shurg i got 5 k worth of coupons from them for last years s9 and D3 debacle

the A3 was the last straw for me never another toaster here.  Seems they learned a bit with the z9 and E3 but unless they gave me  coupons that refund my 100 percent losses one the d3s , which of course they won’t Im done


Again... Bitmain is not stupid, they are a business, and they sell the first batch based on estimates of what this "money-printing-machine" will mine over a reasonable length of time.  Plus, there is a scarcity factor of the first batch that will allow a premium price versus later batches.

It's no different than when a brand new GPU series comes out, the scarcity of obtaining that GPU can cause the retail price to exceed MSRP, which is what the manufacturer thinks the card is worth on the open market.
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August 03, 2018, 07:36:25 AM
 #31

To make this clear I don't hate "ASIC MINING" . . simply put all of the current producers are trash -- just analyze Bitmains price gouging tactics, and then they become "good guy bitmain" after their coupon airdrop to just buy more of their junk. . .

What are these price gouging tactics that Bitmain is accused of?

Bitmain is a company, and they will sell their product to the cost that the market will bear.  It’s no different than if you go to eBay to sell an old GPU, you research what the going price is for your product, what price are they actually selling, and maybe drop a few dollars or cents to make your sale a little more attractive.

They sell the first batch high and then slash the prices of subsequent batches, people are on to them now though you would hope /shurg i got 5 k worth of coupons from them for last years s9 and D3 debacle

the A3 was the last straw for me never another toaster here.  Seems they learned a bit with the z9 and E3 but unless they gave me  coupons that refund my 100 percent losses one the d3s , which of course they won’t Im done


Again... Bitmain is not stupid, they are a business, and they sell the first batch based on estimates of what this "money-printing-machine" will mine over a reasonable length of time.  Plus, there is a scarcity factor of the first batch that will allow a premium price versus later batches.

It's no different than when a brand new GPU series comes out, the scarcity of obtaining that GPU can cause the retail price to exceed MSRP, which is what the manufacturer thinks the card is worth on the open market.
Thats a  ridiculously stupid analogy GPUs that sell first batch like that are usually sold to enthusiast gamers who must have the fastest gaming system  money can buy .

this has nothing to do with roi , it has nothing to do with how much money you will make since profit is not the reason games buy the new flagship gpus.

when it comes to bitmain  selling the toasters yes the first batch prices are high based on potential predicted roi

-the problem is What they don’t tell you is that they have 10 more batches plan at half the price which would dilute the current earnings and future earnings of the batch that you bought and first batch so it’s basically false advertising on top of that the pricing is total bullshit.

why do you think it took so long for the l3s and s9s to become unprofitable, the old normal life span of an asic was two solid years of decent profits... assuming you got lucky enough to buy into the rare batch launches.

with the D3 bitmain took up a scorced earth policy that has continued today, thier goal is to be the only game in town, since they mine with thier best hardware for years in advance anyways they don’t care about the current profit or life expectancy of the CURRENT gear they are selling you idiots. 

even know they are probably using thier next gen , eth,cn7 sha256 miners in house on open air boards , In a year or so when they go from making $50 a day per unit they will sale then to you and you will again lap up thier dregs lol
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August 03, 2018, 10:47:07 AM
 #32

I saw the pole result so far and si somewhere around 50/50. I gues those people who voted that crypto mining is dying are new in this business
Let's not forget, this has happenede before and i think that it has more cycles to go around before it is finished.
Until there will be a viable solution to replace PoW, nothing is dead...is just not profitable at this prezent time (actually is still profitable).
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August 04, 2018, 05:09:10 PM
 #33

Quote

Past performance is not an indicator of future results.  The landscape has change.  Your numbers are all out of wack.  I'm making negative each day after electric cost avg of 28 cents.

Saying we make $5-7 a unit is false.  

Your vending machine analogy is stupid b/c the reality is that you gota spend $2000 for a vending machine that will only pump out $1 dollar a day and will be outdated in 2 years.  That means you lose money .

and and difficulty rises with time so therefore you get rekt even more. Miners are dumb



If you generalize from Obelisk situation, then yes looks like a negative situation.
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August 04, 2018, 06:02:58 PM
 #34

Quote

Past performance is not an indicator of future results.  The landscape has change.  Your numbers are all out of wack.  I'm making negative each day after electric cost avg of 28 cents.

Saying we make $5-7 a unit is false.  

Your vending machine analogy is stupid b/c the reality is that you gota spend $2000 for a vending machine that will only pump out $1 dollar a day and will be outdated in 2 years.  That means you lose money .

and and difficulty rises with time so therefore you get rekt even more. Miners are dumb



If you generalize from Obelisk situation, then yes looks like a negative situation.

BUT if you were first batch you got a sweet t-shirt  Tongue

4MW Data Center - I BUILT Tongue  - Full story below:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4789787.msg43227027#msg43227027
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August 04, 2018, 06:29:58 PM
 #35

Again... Bitmain is not stupid, they are a business, and they sell the first batch based on estimates of what this "money-printing-machine" will mine over a reasonable length of time.  Plus, there is a scarcity factor of the first batch that will allow a premium price versus later batches.

It's no different than when a brand new GPU series comes out, the scarcity of obtaining that GPU can cause the retail price to exceed MSRP, which is what the manufacturer thinks the card is worth on the open market.
Thats a  ridiculously stupid analogy GPUs that sell first batch like that are usually sold to enthusiast gamers who must have the fastest gaming system  money can buy .

this has nothing to do with roi , it has nothing to do with how much money you will make since profit is not the reason games buy the new flagship gpus.

It's a simple supply vs demand scenario for both the first batch off bitmain ASICs and first run GPUs.  Surely you don't disagree with that?


Quote
when it comes to bitmain  selling the toasters yes the first batch prices are high based on potential predicted roi

And limited supply based on whatever competition they might have.  Potential capital recovery times are a big factor in pricing of that first batch... we agree.


Quote
-the problem is What they don’t tell you is that they have 10 more batches plan at half the price which would dilute the current earnings and future earnings of the batch that you bought and first batch so it’s basically false advertising on top of that the pricing is total bullshit.

It's a wash price-wise.  Take the Z9 mini for example.  A $2000 batch one price with a 2 month head start in mining over batch two that sold for $850 is a wash over the lifetime of both batches of Z9 minis.  There might be bread crumbs of difference over the life span, not taking into account coin pricing fluctuations... but believe me... bitmain does their homework on batch pricing.


Quote
why do you think it took so long for the l3s and s9s to become unprofitable, the old normal life span of an asic was two solid years of decent profits... assuming you got lucky enough to buy into the rare batch launches.

Altcoin pricing is highly volatile, and heavily dependent on bitcoin pricing.  Bitcoin ASICs lifetime performance is fairly predictable over it's useful lifespan when you take into account the exponential difficulty/hashrate increases.  Litecoin ASICs have enjoyed a nice ride over the past year, with early adopters gaining the most bang for their buck.


Quote
with the D3 bitmain took up a scorced earth policy that has continued today, thier goal is to be the only game in town, since they mine with thier best hardware for years in advance anyways they don’t care about the current profit or life expectancy of the CURRENT gear they are selling you idiots.  

The D3 was a strange scenario.  Baikal was the only game in town before Bitmain came on board.  But let's not put the blame solely on Bitmain here... people were buying their product... they are just as much to blame.


Quote
even know they are probably using thier next gen , eth,cn7 sha256 miners in house on open air boards , In a year or so when they go from making $50 a day per unit they will sale then to you and you will again lap up thier dregs lol

Evidence please.  Beyond development, testing, and QA there has never been any definitive proof that Bitmain has done this.  There has certainly been a lot of conjecture from people saying "that's what I would do"... which just shows you the greed that people have... relates to the D3 point above.
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August 04, 2018, 07:34:39 PM
 #36



Evidence please.  



https://medium.com/@salva.enkidu_89587/how-bitmain-indeed-mines-coins-in-secret-2ea179e7ab75
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August 04, 2018, 11:29:52 PM
 #37


The first graph tells the true story... Sia hashrate was flat until the Bitmain ASICs delivered.  The rest is easily explained in bitmain and innosilicon developing, testing, QA before release.
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August 05, 2018, 12:11:47 AM
 #38

Mining is only dieing for the ppl who thought they could jump on board and strike it rich when BTC hit 20k for the rest of us who are here to support crypto and have seen the same thing happen when scrypt asics came out mining is not dieing just a little closet cleaning for a the greedy bastards who only care about Fiat, and everyone who's complaining about profits who ran out and lined bitmains pocket this is what happens you will never make money on a asics coin why? Because you have to constantly upgrade to the newest miner as difficulty goes up and up
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August 05, 2018, 02:01:07 AM
 #39

Mining is only dieing for the ppl who thought they could jump on board and strike it rich when BTC hit 20k for the rest of us who are here to support crypto and have seen the same thing happen when scrypt asics came out mining is not dieing just a little closet cleaning for a the greedy bastards who only care about Fiat, and everyone who's complaining about profits who ran out and lined bitmains pocket this is what happens you will never make money on a asics coin why? Because you have to constantly upgrade to the newest miner as difficulty goes up and up

Not true about asics. We have hit the limit with Moore's law and improvement in hardware has been very slow. S9 was out two years ago and we have not gotten a better miner yet from bitmain. Chips can't get any smaller with current tech.
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August 05, 2018, 02:20:53 PM
 #40


The first graph tells the true story... Sia hashrate was flat until the Bitmain ASICs delivered.  The rest is easily explained in bitmain and innosilicon developing, testing, QA before release.

"The most interesting fact is that the oldest block we can track of Antpool is #132204, dated on November 17th, what means that Bitmain mined Siacoins in secret for exactly 2 months (as the Antminer A3 was presented on January 17th). Antpool collected 488 blocks in total thanks to their exclusivity using ASICs, using their brand new hardware in secret."

so...
read whole article carefully again
and again...
and again...

Smiley
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