The reason why bitcoin will never *stay* below 5000$ again. PROVE ME WRONG

[ninobtcx]

Current Market cap is 120b $ (actually real market cap much lower than that due to lost btc and so on); that could be 1000 people with 120m$ hidden. Anyone who has approximately that amount of btc would be very able to buy the market would it temporarily drop significantly below 5000$ per btc, due to the very limited (and shrinking) actual supply of bitcoin and availability in the exchanges.

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Bitcoin has been chosen.
Why? Possibly positioning.

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.
Whether tx take 1 hours to go and cost 10 bucks each.
Whether the nodes get a little bit more or a little bit less centralized.

All that matters is the one reason I stated above.
Everything else is just smoke for sardines.

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[NeuroticFish]

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.

Yes and no. There are and always be both sides of the (Bit)coin: coin for use and "digital gold". Without it's every day use people will get to the point they can't redeem their "digital gold".
Also, I was also thinking that wealthy people will hide big amounts of money into cold storage and "hodl". But nowadays somebody is selling. Yes, it may be the rich guys that bought one year ago, but they sell instead of buying?! I mean, since the corrections we had this year, they should buying again.

So I think that there may be something wrong in this logic: it doesn't cover the whole truth (and yes, I know, there could be some market manipulation exactly because they're buying and they try to keep the price low while doing that). Still, something seems to be missing...

[EVOS]

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

what makes you very confident that bitcoin will be able to come back as well as December 2017?
I want to know your analysis and the evidence from the analysis that you found

[ninobtcx]

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

what makes you very confident that bitcoin will be able to come back as well as December 2017?
I want to know your analysis and the evidence from the analysis that you found

I just explained that?

[ninobtcx]

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.

Yes and no. There are and always be both sides of the (Bit)coin: coin for use and "digital gold". Without it's every day use people will get to the point they can't redeem their "digital gold".
Also, I was also thinking that wealthy people will hide big amounts of money into cold storage and "hodl". But nowadays somebody is selling. Yes, it may be the rich guys that bought one year ago, but they sell instead of buying?! I mean, since the corrections we had this year, they should buying again.

So I think that there may be something wrong in this logic: it doesn't cover the whole truth (and yes, I know, there could be some market manipulation exactly because they're buying and they try to keep the price low while doing that). Still, something seems to be missing...

They sell eventually - yeah - but they don't flip. They sell with the same pace they would sell their physical gold reserves. Which is not frequently.

Market cap of gold is over 30 times market cap of bitcoin; if gold drops those big hands have to suck it up.
But if bitcoin drops and stay below 5000$, those big hands are easily able to pull the price up by buying the market of the bitcoin available.

[gentlemand]

There's a flip side to that.

Deep pockets look years and years into the future. The average bot or kiddie on an exchange fills their nappy with piss and screeches eternal death if there's a ten minute move against them.

The truly rich won't give the slightest shit about short term moves. They'll be happy to let it do what it wants to do. If it went below that it's a nice buy for them but many will be loaded up already and it'll be overwhelmingly OTC.

[aoluain]

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

what makes you very confident that bitcoin will be able to come back as well as December 2017?
I want to know your analysis and the evidence from the analysis that you found

What makes you think it wont?
If and when ETF is approved there will be a lot of new 'investors' those people
looking for a long term pension fund, the ones looking to create a portfolio and
Part of that will be Bitcoin.
There will be those who will remember 2017 and will not want to miss out.

[ninobtcx]

There's a flip side to that.

Deep pockets look years and years into the future. The average bot or kiddie on an exchange fills their nappy with piss and screeches eternal death if there's a ten minute move against them.

The truly rich won't give the slightest shit about short term moves. They'll be happy to let it do what it wants to do. If it went below that it's a nice buy for them but many will be loaded up already and it'll be overwhelmingly OTC.

Correct. Whales don't think like sardines.

[shield132]

I have different opinion. Don't call me crazy but to my mind Bitmain is the company which plays huge role in it too. The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable. Now imagine Bitfury and other companies, they all want profit.
So major thing is mining + people's psichology is only looking for rise, not for fall, if 600 usd was normal last summer, now it will be shock.

[ninobtcx]

The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable.

That's not the "only" reason, but a very strong one. The reason #1 is the one I posted.

[gantez]

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

what makes you very confident that bitcoin will be able to come back as well as December 2017?
I want to know your analysis and the evidence from the analysis that you found

What makes you think it wont?
If and when ETF is approved there will be a lot of new 'investors' those people
looking for a long term pension fund, the ones looking to create a portfolio and
Part of that will be Bitcoin.
There will be those who will remember 2017 and will not want to miss out.

I also believe that ETF is one thing that will grow the market. The market might not be looking sunny but a sweep of positive news of ETF will do good and you see the market raining with green colours. 

[r32godzilla]

We could not say exactly like that.A general reason which we could indicate is that more people are getting aware of bitcoin and hence demand continuously increasing which would not let bitcoin price to fall down more.

[jemarleon]

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Maybe you are right if we look at bitcoins graph last year it still can be dont by this year, day by day there is more people that give's interest on bitcoin but still we cant tell everyone that it will happen and you are 100% sure about it because no one knows what will happen.

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff.

I think this statement is correct, until there is no demand added the price wont change or until there is no one selling below the right price. If everyone use bitcoin to fulfill their everyday need's it only affect's the circulation not the price.

[TheGodson]

I think billionaires are probably looking at safer things to place their money in than Bitcoin. The billionaires that are involved with Bitcoin are probably people that got in early on.

I don't see how you can assume the price can't go lower than $5000. It easily could dip lower and never come back up by people selling and not thinking it will ever go up.

[DwaneJacky]

You are saying this because of the present situation of bitcoin is misarable but don't forget there are a large number of people who are still grabing the opportunity to buy bitcoin in low price so, 500$ will never happen.

[Vimukkthi Vithanage]

yeah , but that can't be considered as the one and only reason. There are lot other supporting reasons for this. But bitcoin sure will not go beyond 5000$ ,, when referring to the  reviews of experts we can guess that good time is coming

[davis196]

A 120 billion market cap could be 1000 people with 120m,but most likely it`s about 10 million people,each with 10,000 USD worth of btc  and a few crypto billionaires.It's proven that the crypto whales own less than 30% of all bitcoins.They can't own 90% or 100%.Having a bitcoin price of under 5000 USD doesn't mean that ALL the whales will start buying btc.They might choose to pump some altcoins or invest their money in non-digital assets.

[djcounter]

If Bitcoin stayed below 5,000$ for a long time, mining is not economical. In my opinion, at this price, we see support from miners.

[mk4]

I heavily agree on what you said on your topic post, but I don't get it's correlation to bitcoin never going below $5000. Though going below $5000 is unlikely in my opinion, I don't think it's impossible.

[phieudieu]

BTC may fall back to under $ 5000 but if it falls it will get back up very quickly, simply because on average an average btc exploit to dig a BTC loses $ 4,800 if the BTC is below $ 5000. For too long they will not be able to afford it and will eventually have to leave the crypto market going down, investors and miners will have to control it so that btc can not reach below $ 5000. . That's my personal opinion, thanks!

[FedorIzmailov]

not everything is clear to me that the author wrote but I agree with the opinion that bitcoin will no longer cost less than $ 5000. we have six months to wait for us and after that we will all get our profit for the warmth!

[derekeaton]

I'm sure that the price will not fall exactly below 5k as this can be considered an invisible minimum for bitcoin. Although it seems to me that below 6k will not be and the price on the contrary will only grow until the end of 2018.

[Dudeperfect]

The market is influential even with a certain percentage of capital because there is no awareness regarding the behaviour of the market. This results in the creation of panic waves which are beneficial for the big whales and institutional investors. We should also consider the factor of the growth of Bitcoin in terms of utility instrument in the coming years. The utility value and actual market price might have some difference but it won't be more than 20 to 30%. As we all know that there is going to be the limited supply in the market but on the other hand there is exponential growth possibility in the user base so the price is not going to remain constant at all.

[goodluck0319]

a large number of coins have never been on exchanges, so the rate has the chance to fall below in the short term

[Dr.2x]

I am very confident that bit coin will come up again. Bitcoin will be able to back as well as last December. I did a research and I believe that it will happen.

[painkiller321]

In the market of crypto currency price is determined by the supply and demand policy mainly. So here we cannot say any fixed price for any crypto currency. It is possible that bitcoin will be below 5000 and it is also not possible. But from analysis we can predict that price will never go below this.

[blackmagic111]

Given that this market is so dynamic, it is hard to predict with a hundred percent accuracy and that it will be iron clad. Given the coin recently recovered and then on that very month it took an 11% fall. So, it is still too early to comment on that.

[Eurobot]

I think that's a positive side of manipulation to be honest, Big investors will be doing anything to keep the market up and running which is why personally, I also think that Bitcoin will never fall below the 5,000$ mark. But, since the market is volatile, anything can happen within a blink of an eye.

[gidaahmad]

The main reason Bitcoin will stay above $ 5k is, the harder it is for Bitcoin to be mined. Because the miners have a big role in the supply of Bitcoin. Especially in 2020, Bitcoin will experience halving and of course the price will touch the new ATH in that year. Thank you for thinking positively.

[iotarocket]

I agree with the posters who believe bitcoin can dip below $5,000, but this is unlikely and highly improbable for it to remain below that level. Institutional money is just starting to flow in and digital currencies are clearly the future of money.

[RetiredPlanBTC]

There is a possibility that bitcoin can fall below $5k. As we all know the fact that crypto currency market is bubble market which can boom at any time, there is a high risk for the crypto coins especially bitcoin which is very much popular nowadays to crush down and face disasters

[jeffer8035]

the truth is that it is intriguing I suppose that if there are many rich people manipulating the market but for them to buy lower and take more of these movements are very well thought out but there is something they can not dominate and it is the alcove where it is more than 60% bitcoin would have to buy large quantities of alcohol and be trapped this explains what I think is very good what you have to think is those who have these large amounts of banks or government governments or simple millionaires and there is a surprise factor how many there are lost

[elwiswoodie]

if the price drops to 5k USD, I'm sure the market will be very hot
many people will start to panic selling their assets, and then there will be a lot of bad news starting to viral, but we know that cryptocurrency assets are decentralized, where everyone can freely have a BTC

[crazy-pilot]

Current Market cap is 120b $ (actually real market cap much lower than that due to lost btc and so on); that could be 1000 people with 120m$ hidden. Anyone who has approximately that amount of btc would be very able to buy the market would it temporarily drop significantly below 5000$ per btc, due to the very limited (and shrinking) actual supply of bitcoin and availability in the exchanges.

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Bitcoin has been chosing.
Why? Possibly positioning.

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.
Whether tx take 1 hours to go and cost 10 bucks each.
Whether the nodes get a little bit more or a little bit less centralized.

All that matters is the one reason I stated above.
Everything else is just smoke for sardines.

Hopefully will not have the price lower than this that you pointed out because right now since last few days, bitcoin has lost almost 25% of his price very rapidly. And if the tendency will continue...

[mikyadel]

Yes and no. There are and always be both sides of the (Bit)coin: coin for use and "digital gold". Without it's every day use people will get to the point they can't redeem their "digital gold".
Also, I was also thinking that wealthy people will hide big amounts of money into cold storage and "hodl". But nowadays somebody is selling. Yes, it may be the rich guys that bought one year ago, but they sell instead of buying?! I mean, since the corrections we had this year, they should buying again.

So I think that there may be something wrong in this logic: it doesn't cover the whole truth (and yes, I know, there could be some market manipulation exactly because they're buying and they try to keep the price low while doing that). Still, something seems to be missing...

these "rich people" you referring to are neither buying or selling , they have enough money to manipulate the market for their own good . there's nothing missing and they don't care about the price , they buy from one point and convince people that bearish trend is over and FOMO occur then they sell in massive amounts causing huge drop again and vice versa in bullish market.

The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable.

100% agree on that point , miners play vital role in this game and once they ditch it , crypto market may fall !

[MattLeBlanc]

I dont think anyone can prove it wrong. Probably the whole truth but we wont be knowing as pseudo anonymity has given the inaccessibility. The bearish market has to be stopped in order to get things positive.

[phieudieu]

There are 2 reasons why btc can go to area under 5000 again
 First, according to technical analysis, btc under the big frame must be bottom to be able to return to high
The second is the market is the bad news old investors are gradually moving and new investment is almost no lead to the price to let btc to lure the new investors into the refund. all possible. This is my personal judgment, thanks! 

[chikading2016]

I dont think anyone can prove it wrong. Probably the whole truth but we wont be knowing as pseudo anonymity has given the inaccessibility. The bearish market has to be stopped in order to get things positive.

No one really knows about the factor that affect the price. Maybe the bitcoin now is low volume on the market or it is low volume of investors on the market that is why it's price are dropping and I believe that it will continue dropping if the market will still low volume .

[zxrcoin]

I agree with some portion. And if bitcoin stay long with this market that will fall bad effect on mining and many are loses their interest about mining.

[Sponsoredby15]

It will not go bellow $5000 because of the demand. As you can see it always dump to less than $6000 but it didn't reach below $5000 because many whales are willing to buy it at that cost. Even small traders will buy too at that very low price right now.

[WolfRisk]

Anything can be happened in this uncertain crypto market. But you can be right and all BTC holders hope that. And I think very soon BTC will hit the market again.

[zubrr51]

Price Bitcoin, as well as other coins in the crypto-currency market is determined by offer and demand. Let's hope that demand exceeds the offer.

[CoinMarKetHW]

I cannot be sure like you. But as the adoption of BTC is increasing and many people are joining here, so there is less possibility to let BTC’s price down. 

[MetaPhorse007]

Maybe you are right about this, but still can’t be so sure. Though if we see the previous graph there is no possibility of falling below $5k but this market is uncertain. I hope it won’t fall. 

[Argoo]

This year, I agree that bitcoin will not fall below the cost of $ 5,000. Bitcoin has been in decline and stagnation for too long, and if it could have fallen below this mark, it would have been there long ago. The price bottom has already passed a long time and now we expect the rise of bitcoin and the entire crypto-currency market. It can happen soon, and maybe in a few months.
However, in the future everything can be. Including, it is possible that bitcoin could ever fall in price and below $ 5,000.

[Herbert2020]

However, in the future everything can be. Including, it is possible that bitcoin could ever fall in price and below $ 5,000.

if you think it is possible in the future then you also must think it is possible to happen this year because there is nothing that can change things in the future that can not change now. not to mention that the more we stay above $6000 (the bottom that was reached and tested multiple times) the stronger the support at that level becomes and eventually it will become a psychological thing where people automatically buy at $6000 and don't let it fall below. which is why in long term it is impossible to go below.

[MightyTulip32]

That is a good thing to be honest. Sharks who have invested a lot of their money on Bitcoins will never let the market fail no matter what happens and that is profitable for us. But, if Bitcoin rises again without the help of the sharks then that would be the best news of this year.

[gentlemand]

It will not go bellow $5000 because of the demand. As you can see it always dump to less than $6000 but it didn't reach below $5000 because many whales are willing to buy it at that cost. Even small traders will buy too at that very low price right now.

Then that tells us this bubble is far from done yet. It's only done when the only people left buying are the professionals and the nutters. No one else can face the prospect of buying. $6000 is a sucky price but it's a long, long way from the point of maximum panic and pain. That price would still leave anyone who got in at any time over 10 months ago firmly in the black.

[strideynet]

a year later, bitcoin received a strong support at the price of $ 4000 - $ 5000, even based on the cost of its production

[BigBlackSheep57]

I wouldn't call this manipulation rather I would say that sharks are also trying to back Bitcoin up during the time of crisis like this. Hopefully, this will prove to be profitable for the community as a whole. No matter how much profit the sharks earn but as long as the market is going smoothly I think the community will be happy.

[Veterock]

Dude, you can never talk about the cost of bitcoin for sure! Since its value isn't backed up by anything!

[rabia_laskor]

Bitcoin is a great coin for invest. Day by day this projects popularity increasing because of their performance. That’s why I believe bitcoin will not touch below $5000.

[ronnis.gomes]

I do not doubt anything else in this market. It is very bad to see that bitcoin does not have the strength to rise and that sales are much stronger than purchases.

[chris200x9]

You are saying this because of the present situation of bitcoin is misarable but don't forget there are a large number of people who are still grabing the opportunity to buy bitcoin in low price so, 500$ will never happen.

It is not $500 but OP is talking about $5000.

I think billionaires are probably looking at safer things to place their money in than Bitcoin. The billionaires that are involved with Bitcoin are probably people that got in early on.

I don't see how you can assume the price can't go lower than $5000. It easily could dip lower and never come back up by people selling and not thinking it will ever go up.

Yes, I do agree because in market anything can happen. This market can't run only by whales manipulation. If I'm not wrong, currently many small investors also holding a large percentage of bitcoins. At this time if some bad news comes out about the crypto market then in a panic all small investors start selling then whales can't hold the price at $5000.

[pooya87]

~
Yes, I do agree because in market anything can happen. This market can't run only by whales manipulation. If I'm not wrong, currently many small investors also holding a large percentage of bitcoins. At this time if some bad news comes out about the crypto market then in a panic all small investors start selling then whales can't hold the price at $5000.

a bad news coming out and price dropping because of it is not the same as whales manipulating the price and trying to crash it. the reaction to bad news is coming from the market itself as everyone sells, for example if ETF is rejected it will be a bad news and there will be panic sells and every speculator would want to take advantage so they'd sell. but a couple of days ago when they kept trying to push it below $6k was manipulation and it failed.

[Danimore]

Current Market cap is 120b $ (actually real market cap much lower than that due to lost btc and so on); that could be 1000 people with 120m$ hidden. Anyone who has approximately that amount of btc would be very able to buy the market would it temporarily drop significantly below 5000$ per btc, due to the very limited (and shrinking) actual supply of bitcoin and availability in the exchanges.

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Bitcoin has been chosen.
Why? Possibly positioning.

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.
Whether tx take 1 hours to go and cost 10 bucks each.
Whether the nodes get a little bit more or a little bit less centralized.

All that matters is the one reason I stated above.
Everything else is just smoke for sardines.

No. you are right. There are nothing to beat bitcoin at this time and it's still like this , too. Everytime bitcoin is down then all altcoins are in blood storm.
Therefore bitcoin is very important and a major figure in the cryptoworld.

[jayveerastrullo]

My opinion why bitcoin still doesn't fall below 5000 is that most of all bitcoin investor bought their bitcoin around 6k and above. So they don't want to sell their bitcoin for as low as 5k because that doesn't pay tgeir capital so they chose to hold it for now and wait others to play the market.

[Kakmakr]

The Bitcoin price is based on Supply & Demand and it could care less about who earns, what amount of coins.  Yes, if a lot of people are hoarding coins, then the supply will drop and the price will go up. <That is just how it is supposed to work>  The problem is, if the demand goes down for the coins, then people can hoard as much as they like, the price will just keep going down.

The $5000 stronghold is holding it's position, because the demand is there to support it. 

[kenel]

if someone sells huge reserves of their funds in bitcoin, the price can be reduced by the chain of orders less than $ 5000, if anyone needed it, he would do it

[Allan Ramanda]

Current Market cap is 120b $ (actually real market cap much lower than that due to lost btc and so on); that could be 1000 people with 120m$ hidden. Anyone who has approximately that amount of btc would be very able to buy the market would it temporarily drop significantly below 5000$ per btc, due to the very limited (and shrinking) actual supply of bitcoin and availability in the exchanges.

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Bitcoin has been chosen.
Why? Possibly positioning.

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.
Whether tx take 1 hours to go and cost 10 bucks each.
Whether the nodes get a little bit more or a little bit less centralized.

All that matters is the one reason I stated above.
Everything else is just smoke for sardines.

actually the price of bitcoin depends on traders and investors, we cannot predict clearly how the price of bitcoin will be in the future. but we can judge from the development of bitcoin so far, and I am very confident that the price of bitcoin will rise higher.

[Perkovic]

completely agree with the author and also think that the people who wait for bitcoin for 5k are simply insane and will buy it for 12k

[Bugatti73]

Bitcoin and the whole cryptography industry are very different from the traditional market, and I think that to be confident in something is simply meaningless at the moment. It seems to me bitcoin can cost 3000 dollars.

[LeonardoDiCrypto]

One of the reason why prices are likely to raise again is that the big miners (Bitmain, etc) won't allow the price to tank too much or they will lose money. They have probably sold a lot of BTCs at ATH and now they should be full loaded with cash that at some point they will use to buy back, to protect their mining investment.

[Bugatti73]

One of the reason why prices are likely to raise again is that the big miners (Bitmain, etc) won't allow the price to tank too much or they will lose money. They have probably sold a lot of BTCs at ATH and now they should be full loaded with cash that at some point they will use to buy back, to protect their mining investment.

That's a really good thought! I think other mining pools will do the same, becouse all huge investors have similar strategy.

[kerzhake]

all the truth the author bitkoin really never already to fall below 5k precisely because its mining simply will be unprofitable

[coinnumber]

Dude, you can never talk about the cost of bitcoin for sure! Since its value isn't backed up by anything!
Yes, you are very correct beside the price of cryptocurrencies are unpredictable you can't tell if it will be below or above $5000 since price changes with seconds here in crypto world. Just get this no one here is ever praying for bitcoin to be below $5000 but that does not warrants the prediction.

[Bugatti73]

Dude, you can never talk about the cost of bitcoin for sure! Since its value isn't backed up by anything!
Yes, you are very correct beside the price of cryptocurrencies are unpredictable you can't tell if it will be below or above $5000 since price changes with seconds here in crypto world. Just get this no one here is ever praying for bitcoin to be below $5000 but that does not warrants the prediction.

You are right, but they all overpower, and this is understandable, because many people in the bitcoin have huge money.

[kolsernik]

Your version deserves attention.But to argue about the value of bitcoin, I think prematurely.Prices will definitely grow, but at this time fluctuate.I hope that up to $ 5000 will not come

[realcrypto]

You stated in your write up that bitcoin is a way for the wealthy billionaire to store their money offline. The wealthy will always become wealthier because they always grab any promising opportunity that comes their way while the poor people are mostly full of doubt and fear. The wealthy are not stopping the poor from buying bitcoin in order to become billionaire as well.

[tee-rex]

The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable.

That's not the "only" reason, but a very strong one. The reason #1 is the one I posted.

This is a very weak argument really. No one gives a fuck about mining costs, let alone there being a single cost of mining in the first place. If anything, whatever bitcoin price might be (5k or 1k), there will always be enough miners as mining will always stay profitable at any price. If mining is no longer profitable for some miners, they just leave while the rest picks up the slack instantly taking their share of the reward pie (as the reward remains the same). No offense intended, but honestly, when people bring up this argument about costs of mining, you can be certain that they don't have a clue about how everything works regarding prices, costs, and other economic matters.

As to your claim in the OP, anyone with enough bitcoins (like the mtgox dude) can crash the price to 1k or even below and keep it there as long as he sees fit. There is no reason to prove you wrong as it is just a matter of someone with deep enough pockets, for example, Satoshi and his likes, choosing to dump enough coins. There is nothing to prove here.

[Pump N Dead]

Current Market cap is 120b $ (actually real market cap much lower than that due to lost btc and so on); that could be 1000 people with 120m$ hidden. Anyone who has approximately that amount of btc would be very able to buy the market would it temporarily drop significantly below 5000$ per btc, due to the very limited (and shrinking) actual supply of bitcoin and availability in the exchanges.

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Bitcoin has been chosen.
Why? Possibly positioning.

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.
Whether tx take 1 hours to go and cost 10 bucks each.
Whether the nodes get a little bit more or a little bit less centralized.

All that matters is the one reason I stated above.
Everything else is just smoke for sardines.

I also believe that Bitcoin will not stay below $5000 because the demand is more powerful than the manipulators and the dumpers.It is not like fiat currency where inflation kicks in. Bitcoin is inflation proof and it will climb no matter how hard they dump it.

[tegarp90]

Current Market cap is 120b $ (actually real market cap much lower than that due to lost btc and so on); that could be 1000 people with 120m$ hidden. Anyone who has approximately that amount of btc would be very able to buy the market would it temporarily drop significantly below 5000$ per btc, due to the very limited (and shrinking) actual supply of bitcoin and availability in the exchanges.

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Bitcoin has been chosen.
Why? Possibly positioning.

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.
Whether tx take 1 hours to go and cost 10 bucks each.
Whether the nodes get a little bit more or a little bit less centralized.

All that matters is the one reason I stated above.
Everything else is just smoke for sardines.

but i think everything is possible in crypto, so we are not recommended to really trust what we trusted or analyzed before, because it can be wrong anytime

[ninobtcx]

The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable.

That's not the "only" reason, but a very strong one. The reason #1 is the one I posted.

This is a very weak argument really. No one gives a fuck about mining costs, let alone there being a single cost of mining in the first place. If anything, whatever bitcoin price might be (5k or 1k), there will always be enough miners as mining will always stay profitable at any price. If mining is no longer profitable for some miners, they just leave while the rest picks up the slack instantly taking their share of the reward pie (as the reward remains the same). No offense intended, but honestly, when people bring up this argument about costs of mining, you can be certain that they don't have a clue about how everything works regarding prices, costs, and other economic matters.

As to your claim in the OP, anyone with enough bitcoins (like the mtgox dude) can crash the price to 1k or even below and keep it there as long as he sees fit. There is no reason to prove you wrong as it is just a matter of someone with deep enough pockets, for example, Satoshi and his likes, choosing to dump enough coins. There is nothing to prove here.

No - it is important because people who are heavily involved in mining who happens to have a considerable wealth, will always try to manipulate the price above their profitability rate.
Manipulating up a 100B$ market is easier than manipulating it down.

Simple as that, if you disagree read again because it's a very simple concept.

[arc67583]

It wont fall again because even Bicoins price dropped but due to many negative effects it had to face from the world but the world understanding towards Bitoin is changing so we can see many industries and businesses are trying to connect Bitcoin with there core business processes and that can give a good place in the near future to increase it's price and expand more in the globe so I think the possibility of Bitcoin to go under 5000$ is minimum in the future

[SAHARANINE]

Bitcoin will never go below 5000$ again because it is expanding at the moment in the business world in a high rate as a digital currency and soon its price will rise to the previous level or more so better to buy now without thinking twice and like you have mentioned ethereum price too is low and doing ethereum investments too will be very profitable in the future but for any now is the time to buy and hold

[supermine]

The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable.

That's not the "only" reason, but a very strong one. The reason #1 is the one I posted.

This is a very weak argument really. No one gives a fuck about mining costs, let alone there being a single cost of mining in the first place. If anything, whatever bitcoin price might be (5k or 1k), there will always be enough miners as mining will always stay profitable at any price. If mining is no longer profitable for some miners, they just leave while the rest picks up the slack instantly taking their share of the reward pie (as the reward remains the same). No offense intended, but honestly, when people bring up this argument about costs of mining, you can be certain that they don't have a clue about how everything works regarding prices, costs, and other economic matters.

As to your claim in the OP, anyone with enough bitcoins (like the mtgox dude) can crash the price to 1k or even below and keep it there as long as he sees fit. There is no reason to prove you wrong as it is just a matter of someone with deep enough pockets, for example, Satoshi and his likes, choosing to dump enough coins. There is nothing to prove here.

No - it is important because people who are heavily involved in mining who happens to have a considerable wealth, will always try to manipulate the price above their profitability rate.
Manipulating up a 100B$ market is easier than manipulating it down.

Simple as that, if you disagree read again because it's a very simple concept.

If there are some legit investors who want to exit from the crypto currency hereafter the prices may drop too because the investment made in the bitcoin by everyone from millionaires to small traders so if the some of the pull out their investment capital because of long time tiring bear market it can bring the prices to $5000 too.But the whales won't let that happen I think since we have seen many crashes in the bitcoin price but still it can be hang around at $6000 level.

[franky1]

OP is wrong
the topic is good. but his reasoning lacks...

because his whole comment is based on market cap. and he talks about it as if there is a stockpile of dollars held somewhere holding the price up.
sorry there isnt

bitcoins price is made up from a seller having coins and finding a buyer that agrees with the price. the price moves depending on the price agreed.

market cap is just a multiplication of that price.
EG i can make 5 trillion coins. sell 1 coin for $1 and have $5trill cap.. that does not mean there is actually $5trill holding up the price. there is only $1
now there is also no central holding of the dollars to back it up. the person that sold they have taken the funds and moved on.

but lets pretend there was a central store
if i tried to sell my coins. i would not get 5trillion. i would end up with 0.0000000000002 per coin ($1) if sold all the coins to get to that $1 held

in short market caps are MEANINGLESS!!!

[franky1]

now here is why bitcoin wont go down
acquisition costs
1. mining. right now miners have to buy equipment and pay electric to acquire fresh coins. the cost of this is, based on this months LOW hashrate of 42exa(5th sept) =$5670.. only the mining pool that mined coins at 42exa's block would sell their coins for $5670 to just break even. no mining pool will sell their coins at a loss so the other coins they mine this month at higher hashrates would have a higher cost average.

2. trading. since november 2017 and retested end of june 2018. no trader has sold below $5800. there has been 10 months of oppertunity for anyone who is happy to sell below $5800 to actually sell below $5800... no one has.
as for those that did sell at $5800 in november and june they sold, they are out they took their funds and left. the buyer of those coins now has a cost of $5800 and they wont stupidly sell for less.

3. looking at the UTXO data over 65% of coins have moved/changed hands since the $5,800 price point. and they have not sold below $5800. the other 35% are older coins. which some say could be lost keys, held in trust/for retirement. locked in bankrupcy legal blackholes(mtgox). so in short 2 thirds of the community dont want to sell for less because they have ben active enough to show they had oppertunity. but have not sold when they had the chance


4. so since the november and retested a few times. people with coins and mining coins have to a majority of over 65% collectively agreed they wont sell below $5800.

now lets imagine that the $5800 could be broken.
the idea is that of the 35% that didnt move/spend/sell even though their costs are below $5800 is because they:
have not checked the price for a year and didnt realise the price
lost their keys.
not ready to sell yet

now we all know that the 35% doesnt belong to one person. and if it was a group and they wanted to collectively collude. they would have done so already. they had many chances to group up.
but if one person had 5000btc to sell down the market volume of bitfinex to $5800 or 2000btc to sell down the market of GDAX. before they even get to sell their last coin. the market buyers wishing to buy over $5800 would be grabbing coins before 5800 and the price wont get to what the seller wants to push it down to, in short it would flash crash and then the buyers will see it as a discount opportunity and recover the price back up.

it would require alot of coins to tank the price and then perpetually keep it down to fight off the buyers who will be counteracting those efforts.
this worry is the whole thing about the "what if MTGox,, what if satoshi" .. well as i said earlier. they have had plenty of chances while the price is above $5800 to sell

but because 10 months of opportunity has shown no desire to do it and the mining costs show pools wont. id say thats a good case and percentage we wont see the bottom fall out of the market

[tkaush]

No one can predict certainly that bitcoin will never go under that amount and I too cannot do that because we saw unthinkable happen since we came to the crypto market but I do think still there is a possibility we can make profits from bitcoin investment because in the past Countries tried make restrictions against Bitcoin and some tried to ban and with the price fall many thought Bitcoin will disappeared but now it is recovering like it didn't even care what happened and the possibility is high that bitcoin soon will gain it's previous price very easily without any problem but it depends how external factors reacts on bitcoin in the future

[Dreamrone]

This is the main concern of many people because there huge investments  depends on bitcoin prices and I can say bitcoin price is rising fine now and it will be strong in the future and I am saying this because even as we speak Bitcoin is getting more followers that the past so unlike several years ago now more individuals posses at least some amount of Biitcoin in there wallets to use as investments or to make payments and with that bitcoin might become more productive and usable in the future so definitely it will rise than falling again

[MADUWAN]

Most of the time it wont go under 5000$ and some are very sure about that and they even invest there life savings on bitcoin so this is the last chance to gain what most have lost but not to abandon the market or you wont get anything. Bitcoin price seems to fail and that is due to media, governments and other financial reasons that we have today and among them government restrictions and media news are main reasons why bitcoin price started to fall recently but now countries are changing there view about crypto assets and instead of thinking they are too bad for the economy major governments are finding ways to deal with them to make profits in in many ways

[euronine897]

Bitcoin market will recover soon and it will show most panic sellers and who made negative predictions that they are wrong . Due to bitcoin price drop even top cryptocurrency investors got panicked and sold for a lower price and in that time countries like USA, India kept fueling the situation ignoring the bad effect on investors and benefits that the country could have gained by using it and for the positive side significant businesses in various areas trying to implement Bitcoin with there core business processes because tech experts know digital currency is something extraordinary when compared to fiat paper currencies so doesn't matter what the world thinks now the future will definitely welcome bitcoin with open hand

[Sandus_Cryptolover]

Current Market cap is 120b $ (actually real market cap much lower than that due to lost btc and so on); that could be 1000 people with 120m$ hidden. Anyone who has approximately that amount of btc would be very able to buy the market would it temporarily drop significantly below 5000$ per btc, due to the very limited (and shrinking) actual supply of bitcoin and availability in the exchanges.

There's these school of thought I believe in, it says "In Cryptocurrency everything is possible" it has been proven to be true every time it's been put to test.

Example, you wrote this post August 06 and today is September 15. Since then bitcoin has lost nearly $7billion dropping market cap to ~$113Billion. Hope you know this market cap can also drop to ~$87billion at anytime and if that happens bitcoin will drop to around ~$5000 not saying this will happen but it's a probability.

You are exactly right on the part that in cryptocurrency anything is very possible. The price of Bitcoin could go below 5000$ and can as well stay ahead 6000$. And investors should not be carried away by investing all their hard earn cash, kindly use your investment strategy.

[ExceedBlue012]

Really appreciate you thought and also it is a very informative article and I want to add just one thing bitcoin has its own standard limit and it will never cross that.

[squatter]

now here is why bitcoin wont go down
acquisition costs
1. mining. right now miners have to buy equipment and pay electric to acquire fresh coins. the cost of this is, based on this months LOW hashrate of 42exa(5th sept) =$5670.. only the mining pool that mined coins at 42exa's block would sell their coins for $5670 to just break even. no mining pool will sell their coins at a loss so the other coins they mine this month at higher hashrates would have a higher cost average.

Why wouldn't miners sell at a loss? Lots of investors sell at a loss, eventually, once the pain of being underwater gets bad enough. I remember reading about mining operations back in 2014 whose operational costs were heavily leveraged. They were forced to liquidate everything because of the bear market.

I've also heard of miners (and recently too) who had much lower costs than that.

2. trading. since november 2017 and retested end of june 2018. no trader has sold below $5800. there has been 10 months of oppertunity for anyone who is happy to sell below $5800 to actually sell below $5800... no one has.

The $5,800 bottom came only a couple months ago. Give it time.

3. looking at the UTXO data over 65% of coins have moved/changed hands since the $5,800 price point. and they have not sold below $5800. the other 35% are older coins. which some say could be lost keys, held in trust/for retirement. locked in bankrupcy legal blackholes(mtgox). so in short 2 thirds of the community dont want to sell for less because they have ben active enough to show they had oppertunity. but have not sold when they had the chance

Past performance doesn't guarantee future performance. If there has been sufficient demand to keep price above $5,800 it doesn't logically follow that there is no one willing to sell below $5,800. If the demand decreases, sellers could push price further down.

Anyway, I'll continue to hold my coins. I'm just playing devil's advocate and pointing out that this is all speculation.

[tee-rex]

The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable.

That's not the "only" reason, but a very strong one. The reason #1 is the one I posted.

This is a very weak argument really. No one gives a fuck about mining costs, let alone there being a single cost of mining in the first place. If anything, whatever bitcoin price might be (5k or 1k), there will always be enough miners as mining will always stay profitable at any price. If mining is no longer profitable for some miners, they just leave while the rest picks up the slack instantly taking their share of the reward pie (as the reward remains the same). No offense intended, but honestly, when people bring up this argument about costs of mining, you can be certain that they don't have a clue about how everything works regarding prices, costs, and other economic matters.

As to your claim in the OP, anyone with enough bitcoins (like the mtgox dude) can crash the price to 1k or even below and keep it there as long as he sees fit. There is no reason to prove you wrong as it is just a matter of someone with deep enough pockets, for example, Satoshi and his likes, choosing to dump enough coins. There is nothing to prove here.

No - it is important because people who are heavily involved in mining who happens to have a considerable wealth, will always try to manipulate the price above their profitability rate.
Manipulating up a 100B$ market is easier than manipulating it down.

Simple as that, if you disagree read again because it's a very simple concept.

I'm not going to argue over this point any further as only time will tell and only time can actually prove or disprove your point. Just in case, I hope you are right. However, how much are you going to stake personally that bitcoin won't drop below 5k? Also, explain what you mean by staying below 5k? Are you deliberately playing on words here as staying below 5k is not the same as temporarily dropping below that level? Staying means a certain amount or length of time, so how much exactly, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, in a row or occasionally?

[IamKnowledge]

There market will get better with time but it will it is not to predict how things will go. However, I do not think that bitcoin will fall below 5000 dollars

[Teriyanone]

Bitcoin good days are coming and it will never get low in the future but the price will increase more and I know a tragedy happened for Bitcoin holders and investors in last couple of months when Bitcoin price went down most people thought that this is a great and rare chance to invest thinking that the price would double in no time but Bitcoin price decreased further for many political and financial reasons and all dreams were destroyed instantly but I think we can still hope for the best in the future even most investors have faced many losses recently many experts idea is that Bitcoin will be fine due to the high demand it is gaining from major industries and price of bitcoin will increase by time   

[tee-rex]

now here is why bitcoin wont go down
acquisition costs
1. mining. right now miners have to buy equipment and pay electric to acquire fresh coins. the cost of this is, based on this months LOW hashrate of 42exa(5th sept) =$5670.. only the mining pool that mined coins at 42exa's block would sell their coins for $5670 to just break even. no mining pool will sell their coins at a loss so the other coins they mine this month at higher hashrates would have a higher cost average.

Why wouldn't miners sell at a loss? Lots of investors sell at a loss, eventually, once the pain of being underwater gets bad enough. I remember reading about mining operations back in 2014 whose operational costs were heavily leveraged. They were forced to liquidate everything because of the bear market.

Some people are hard to explain even the simplest of things. They are like living in their own universe, with its own laws, which is to say, their laws. Miners are not only going to sell at a loss as they don't have a lot of choice having to pay their bills in fiat, they will in fact be mining at a loss. Many miners in the past had been mining at a loss for some time expecting future price growth just like any other producer out there does when the prices plunge for some reason.

Yes, I also remember a story about some Scandinavian miner (name is welcome) who had to stop their operation and sell out because they couldn't keep up with the competition from the Chinese miners, with their cheap electricity (likely subsidized by the local government) and early access to most advanced miners. Bitmain, anyone?

[ninobtcx]

Looks like I was right.. now look what will happen to Bitcoin price....

[coinwizard_]

I would say this is correct, the bottom appears to be around 6200 so this stagnant market will probably fluctuate between there and 7k for a while, at least until the bull run begins

[mekie]

Bitcoin today is about 5% higher than it was the same time last year. Whilst there have been wild swings in its price it has shown resilience and never dropped below $5k which is why it is very unlikely to drop below $5k again, in fact I doubt it will drop below $6k again. My prediction for what its worth is that one year from now it will be at $8k with some very large movements in December and January.

[Isiaka208]

The market is still not predictable if it was, we should be close to 50,000$ by now as predicted by those who know Technical analysis so much. Its good to be bullish but dont ignore reality. 

[kotajikikox]

That's sign bitcoin are still strong, i agree it's possible bitcoin give better increase before end of this year, but i don't expect well because many expert are failed to predict about bitcoin movement in year current year, better to wait what will happen for bitcoin before end of this year.

[florianuhlemann]

This market has fast dynamics. And we can not say what will happen tomorrow or next month. But I think that large investors will make every effort to stay in profit.

[messito]

I support the author and also believe that Bitcoin will not be long below even 6k dollars so you can safely buy it at the current price

[Bizard]

Everything can be impossible to say for sure that Bitcoin cannot fail to ask for up to five thousand dollars, since there is a lot of manipulation on the market and this is not very good for Bitcoin, many still think that it is just a soap bubble results.

[Zalaster]

Perhaps you are right, but I am inclined to believe that if someone wants to drop bitcoin below, he will certainly achieve it. It is enough to convince large investors that Bitcoin is not suitable as an investment, and it will lose value. For example, if a blochain finds a vulnerability. The value that we see today, in my opinion, is true, and it will not differ dramatically over time.

[nightfury]

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Since i am not a crypto expert who can provide technical analysis regarding about the repetition of last year's inflation rates of cryptos, then i can't also tell when it will comes back again. As a believe, i am just confident that it will going to happen again in the future.

[ansarose1]

maybe you are right buddy. I also think that bitcoin is not gonna go down below 5000$ since it is the most volume coin in the market, as for market situation now, bitcoin is gonna take an increawe for the remaining months on this year. In fact, every bitcoin holder hopes that it will rise to its very peak high price just like on december of 2017.

[jacafbiz]

I won't bet on the price going below $5000 because for me when Bitcoin price hit $18k I said then the we won't see bitcoin price below $10k, I was advising my friends to buy at that price, but we are now close to $5k than $10k now and i was very disappointed encouraging someone new to the space to buy at the top. I am bullish on BTC that is all I can say now because IMO there seems to be some invisible hands pushing the price down

[ninobtcx]

Everything still going according to my theory also in the OTC markets.

[KrishaBitcoin]

It seems your assumptions is going to be true as the Bitcoin is stable and steady with the $6,000 mark so hopefully the you are right that Bitcoin will bounce back by December. I'm waiting for the ETF approved remark and big whales appearance to support your speculation as we need to be always positive to overcome some negative thinking so this is better than spreading FUD that will just make the market worst.

[South Park]

Current Market cap is 120b $ (actually real market cap much lower than that due to lost btc and so on); that could be 1000 people with 120m$ hidden. Anyone who has approximately that amount of btc would be very able to buy the market would it temporarily drop significantly below 5000$ per btc, due to the very limited (and shrinking) actual supply of bitcoin and availability in the exchanges.

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Bitcoin has been chosen.
Why? Possibly positioning.

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.
Whether tx take 1 hours to go and cost 10 bucks each.
Whether the nodes get a little bit more or a little bit less centralized.

All that matters is the one reason I stated above.
Everything else is just smoke for sardines.

That is definitely one reason why the price of bitcoin is probably not going to go that low or at least it is not going to remain at those levels but even if not many people are using bitcoin as a currency that is a huge factor as well because we cannot deny that having a way to pay for stuff that cannot be regulated is a very powerful thing and something that a lot of people will appreciate.

[Flor1982]

The remainder of this $5,000 to $6,000 are the true Bitcoin holders now which composed of strong hands and strong people that all the panic people are already sold their Bitcoin and leave. Lets forget about the bull run and focused to this new real demand stabilize amount or the new  baseline of the Bitcoin price which is $6,000.

[pinoyden]

no op i wont believe that analysis of your's  . what i trully believe is that anything can possibly happen , the price can still go down below 5k usd but it can also climb up high higher than its previous ath .

That all will depend on the mood of the whales because whales are the ones that trully controls the market situation since they are the ones that have a big capital .

Anyway , rest just assure that bitcoin and any other cryptos will have a good comeback because i havent seen them recovering so far up to this year .

[buwaytress]

Again? If we stretch timeframe to eternity, that statement will always be true, without "again". Fact, short of the market just dying, no price is the bottom, neither is there ever a top.

And a value against USD won't even last this century, should Bitcoin still be traded. Pointless to prove anyone wrong or right, since that proof can only be shown at the end. Put a timeline and we can talk shop =)

[fulmetal08larz]

I believe anything could still happen with BTC price. Unless, you are one of those market movers, you will never be able to predict where the market is going. All we can do is to anticipate the next move of those who hold a lot of funds and strategize based on their tactics.

[Bonsaiav]

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

I think what happened in December 2017, of course this will happen again in the coming year, even though we don't know when the second $ 20,000 segment will occur. And I believe, the value of bitcoin will grow to greater than $ 20,000.

[yonjitsu]

IMO, the reason why bitcoin will never stay or goes down below 5,000$ because so many people wanted bitcoin's market value to go down, they will panic buy whenever they see bitcoin's market value to go down. Bitcoin at 5,000$ is really low if you compare it to its regular price since the 4th quarter of 2017.

[fabiorem]

[minersday]

Well this is a perfect theory, i have a bunch, like for Bcash, and all the other forked coins that also want to have a stake of the pie.

I have different opinion. Don't call me crazy but to my mind Bitmain is the company which plays huge role in it too. The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable. Now imagine Bitfury and other companies, they all want profit.
So major thing is mining + people's psichology is only looking for rise, not for fall, if 600 usd was normal last summer, now it will be shock.

This is a game, in where we all are involved and we all want to have some profit out of all this situation.

I would not like to see it below $5,000 anyway.

[ninobtcx]

Still not dropping below..
And no, Bitcoin doesn't give a damn of Faketoshi's bullshit and the BCH fork..

[zby]

...
Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.
..

I am not a billionaire - but if I was and saw my wealth part put into crypto shrinking so fast  I would probably stop trusting it as a good store of value.

[ninobtcx]

The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable.

That's not the "only" reason, but a very strong one. The reason #1 is the one I posted.

This is a very weak argument really. No one gives a fuck about mining costs, let alone there being a single cost of mining in the first place. If anything, whatever bitcoin price might be (5k or 1k), there will always be enough miners as mining will always stay profitable at any price. If mining is no longer profitable for some miners, they just leave while the rest picks up the slack instantly taking their share of the reward pie (as the reward remains the same). No offense intended, but honestly, when people bring up this argument about costs of mining, you can be certain that they don't have a clue about how everything works regarding prices, costs, and other economic matters.

As to your claim in the OP, anyone with enough bitcoins (like the mtgox dude) can crash the price to 1k or even below and keep it there as long as he sees fit. There is no reason to prove you wrong as it is just a matter of someone with deep enough pockets, for example, Satoshi and his likes, choosing to dump enough coins. There is nothing to prove here.

No - it is important because people who are heavily involved in mining who happens to have a considerable wealth, will always try to manipulate the price above their profitability rate.
Manipulating up a 100B$ market is easier than manipulating it down.

Simple as that, if you disagree read again because it's a very simple concept.

I'm not going to argue over this point any further as only time will tell and only time can actually prove or disprove your point. Just in case, I hope you are right. However, how much are you going to stake personally that bitcoin won't drop below 5k? Also, explain what you mean by staying below 5k? Are you deliberately playing on words here as staying below 5k is not the same as temporarily dropping below that level? Staying means a certain amount or length of time, so how much exactly, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, in a row or occasionally?

It looks like OP's claim doesn't check out with reality. 5k may be a new high now.

It's not "will never go again below 5000$".

It's "will never STAY below 5000$".

You will see that you have a very limited timeframe to buy under 5000$ because it will soon go above that threashold again.

[tee-rex]

The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable.

That's not the "only" reason, but a very strong one. The reason #1 is the one I posted.

This is a very weak argument really. No one gives a fuck about mining costs, let alone there being a single cost of mining in the first place. If anything, whatever bitcoin price might be (5k or 1k), there will always be enough miners as mining will always stay profitable at any price. If mining is no longer profitable for some miners, they just leave while the rest picks up the slack instantly taking their share of the reward pie (as the reward remains the same). No offense intended, but honestly, when people bring up this argument about costs of mining, you can be certain that they don't have a clue about how everything works regarding prices, costs, and other economic matters.

As to your claim in the OP, anyone with enough bitcoins (like the mtgox dude) can crash the price to 1k or even below and keep it there as long as he sees fit. There is no reason to prove you wrong as it is just a matter of someone with deep enough pockets, for example, Satoshi and his likes, choosing to dump enough coins. There is nothing to prove here.

No - it is important because people who are heavily involved in mining who happens to have a considerable wealth, will always try to manipulate the price above their profitability rate.
Manipulating up a 100B$ market is easier than manipulating it down.

Simple as that, if you disagree read again because it's a very simple concept.

I'm not going to argue over this point any further as only time will tell and only time can actually prove or disprove your point. Just in case, I hope you are right. However, how much are you going to stake personally that bitcoin won't drop below 5k? Also, explain what you mean by staying below 5k? Are you deliberately playing on words here as staying below 5k is not the same as temporarily dropping below that level? Staying means a certain amount or length of time, so how much exactly, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, in a row or occasionally?

It looks like OP's claim doesn't check out with reality. 5k may be a new high now.

It's not "will never go again below 5000$".

It's "will never STAY below 5000$".

You will see that you have a very limited timeframe to buy under 5000$ because it will soon go above that threashold again.

So what is your "very limited timeframe" exactly? How long should the price stay below 5k before you finally accept that it STAYS below that threshold ?

[gentlemand]

It's not "will never go again below 5000$".

It's "will never STAY below 5000$".

You will see that you have a very limited timeframe to buy under 5000$ because it will soon go above that threashold again.

I think this is what many a personage is hoping. I can't really see it panning out like that myself. There's no will to maintain this price level, let alone push up again. I expect 5 grand to not be seen again for rather more than a limited time frame.

[teramit]

time started to proove you wrong, when people say it never stay this under this price it drops or when said it never stay under this price it rises, so there is no need to try to proove something, people buy n sell btc, you cant trust them

[quartzz]

The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable.

That's not the "only" reason, but a very strong one. The reason #1 is the one I posted.

This is a very weak argument really. No one gives a fuck about mining costs, let alone there being a single cost of mining in the first place. If anything, whatever bitcoin price might be (5k or 1k), there will always be enough miners as mining will always stay profitable at any price. If mining is no longer profitable for some miners, they just leave while the rest picks up the slack instantly taking their share of the reward pie (as the reward remains the same). No offense intended, but honestly, when people bring up this argument about costs of mining, you can be certain that they don't have a clue about how everything works regarding prices, costs, and other economic matters.

As to your claim in the OP, anyone with enough bitcoins (like the mtgox dude) can crash the price to 1k or even below and keep it there as long as he sees fit. There is no reason to prove you wrong as it is just a matter of someone with deep enough pockets, for example, Satoshi and his likes, choosing to dump enough coins. There is nothing to prove here.

No - it is important because people who are heavily involved in mining who happens to have a considerable wealth, will always try to manipulate the price above their profitability rate.
Manipulating up a 100B$ market is easier than manipulating it down.

Simple as that, if you disagree read again because it's a very simple concept.

I'm not going to argue over this point any further as only time will tell and only time can actually prove or disprove your point. Just in case, I hope you are right. However, how much are you going to stake personally that bitcoin won't drop below 5k? Also, explain what you mean by staying below 5k? Are you deliberately playing on words here as staying below 5k is not the same as temporarily dropping below that level? Staying means a certain amount or length of time, so how much exactly, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, in a row or occasionally?

It looks like OP's claim doesn't check out with reality. 5k may be a new high now.

It's not "will never go again below 5000$".

It's "will never STAY below 5000$".

You will see that you have a very limited timeframe to buy under 5000$ because it will soon go above that threashold again.

So what is your "very limited timeframe" exactly? How long should the price stay below 5k before you finally accept that it STAYS below that threshold ?

That was the good question ahah.
And it arose at 7 pages, now that btc as been under 5k for a week and hit 3800$

[ninobtcx]

Okay!

Listen:

If bitcoin stays under 5000$ by the end of 2018, I will eat a fried dead mouse and I will post the pictures on this thread.

[Blue9999]

Okay!

Listen:

If bitcoin stays under 5000$ by the end of 2018, I will eat a fried dead mouse and I will post the pictures on this thread.

Quoted this just in case.

Btw we are all waiting so let us know how it taste 

[quartzz]

Okay!

Listen:

If bitcoin stays under 5000$ by the end of 2018, I will eat a fried dead mouse and I will post the pictures on this thread.

Ahahah wtf

You took less risks than McAfee but still I'm looking forward to check that out!
https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/959399180111417344

[gentlemand]

Price is determined by the balance of supply and demand, not the cost of production, which the recent price crash has shown again.

People here often seem to refuse to believe that miners are followers, not leaders. They react to what the market forces on them, not vice versa. And that's how it was designed and that's how it should be. No one other than miners needs to care about the cost of production.

Anyway, this thread is yet another that has not aged well but let's hope a mouse doesn't have to die.

[ju34400]

Okay!

Listen:

If bitcoin stays under 5000$ by the end of 2018, I will eat a fried dead mouse and I will post the pictures on this thread.

with a good BBQ sauce it's tasty

[xtraelv]

Photos ? 

[Pursuer]

Price is determined by the balance of supply and demand, not the cost of production, which the recent price crash has shown again.

People here often seem to refuse to believe that miners are followers, not leaders. They react to what the market forces on them, not vice versa. And that's how it was designed and that's how it should be. No one other than miners needs to care about the cost of production.

Anyway, this thread is yet another that has not aged well but let's hope a mouse doesn't have to die.

this is a good point but not quite correct.
miners are neither "followers" nor "leaders", when you say they are "followers" you are exaggerating their involvement just as others are thinking of them as "leaders".
the fact is, miners are a part of this system like anybody else but they have more at stake compare to simple investors who only have bitcoin. because a miner both has bitcoin and has equipment. while a simple investor can sell and get out in a short time (as fast as he can transfer his coins to exchange and sell) the miner can't just get out if they want to because they have to shut down their miners and sell those to get out and you can't get back in as easy either because again it would require buying ASICs.

[Vaskiy]

The price has fallen sideways, and the same is not because of the manipulation. It is just a price fluctuation as it happens before, and this time the price was predicted to go $3200 or to ₹4200. Market went $4200 and the same assures the growth will happen reaching $6000 crossing the $5000.

[deisik]

Price is determined by the balance of supply and demand, not the cost of production, which the recent price crash has shown again.

People here often seem to refuse to believe that miners are followers, not leaders. They react to what the market forces on them, not vice versa. And that's how it was designed and that's how it should be. No one other than miners needs to care about the cost of production.

Anyway, this thread is yet another that has not aged well but let's hope a mouse doesn't have to die.

this is a good point but not quite correct.
miners are neither "followers" nor "leaders", when you say they are "followers" you are exaggerating their involvement just as others are thinking of them as "leaders".
the fact is, miners are a part of this system like anybody else but they have more at stake compare to simple investors who only have bitcoin. because a miner both has bitcoin and has equipment. while a simple investor can sell and get out in a short time (as fast as he can transfer his coins to exchange and sell) the miner can't just get out if they want to because they have to shut down their miners and sell those to get out and you can't get back in as easy either because again it would require buying ASICs

Well, your point is not quite correct either

As you seem to forget that miners are mining for a profit, while the cost of mining rigs is fixed. It means that just like with traders they have a breakeven point, and the longer they mine the closer they get to it (provided they are mining for a profit, of course). So in due course their profits start to exceed both the operating costs (i.e. electricity costs) and the cost of invested capital (i.e. the costs of equipment). From then on the cost of equipment becomes irrelevant apart from what they could sell their mining rigs for, naturally (but this works in their favor typically)

[Mister1k]

The current crypto market is persuasive even with a specific level of capital in light of the fact that there is no mindfulness in regards to the conduct of the market. This outcomes in the production of frenzy waves which are advantageous for the huge whales and institutional speculators. We ought to likewise consider the factor of the development of Bitcoin as far as utility instrument in the coming years.

[Idrisu]

Current Market cap is 120b $ (actually real market cap much lower than that due to lost btc and so on); that could be 1000 people with 120m$ hidden. Anyone who has approximately that amount of btc would be very able to buy the market would it temporarily drop significantly below 5000$ per btc, due to the very limited (and shrinking) actual supply of bitcoin and availability in the exchanges.

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Bitcoin has been chosen.
Why? Possibly positioning.

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.
Whether tx take 1 hours to go and cost 10 bucks each.
Whether the nodes get a little bit more or a little bit less centralized.

All that matters is the one reason I stated above.
Everything else is just smoke for sardines.

This thread open long time ago and it is still relevant to the discussion in cryptocurrencies cycle today.  Bitcoin will do well in future but the current market is making people to lose hope on the market.  Bitcoin is currently below $4000 and many of us believe that it is currently undervalued.