PowerBet.IO are SCAMMING, LEAKING sensitive info,and CENSORING negative feedback

[tortic25]

So, here is the story...

I was searching for a bitcoin sportsbook to bet, and I stumbled upon powerbet.io. It seemed great, and I was ready to deposit, when I saw this in one of their threads:


I found the new thread they started, and posted this:

I was ready to deposit and start betting on your website, when I read your other thread and saw this:



It seems that you arbitrarily limited this guy just because he won a couple of bets.
Furthermore, you NEVER replied to him.
AND, you closed the thread and opened a new one to save yourselves from the embarrassment.


It really is a pity. I usually bet large amounts (around 1 btc per bet) and I was looking for a website that offers good odds and can handle it.

...and then, not more than 30 seconds later, I got an e-mail saying that my post was deleted because this was a self-moderating thread. See the beauty here? They simply delete all negative feedback without ever even commenting on it.

They might as well just take your money and run. There is nothing you can do about it... They'll just delete your comments.

Wait so you're saying they deleted your negative post and you say you haven't deposited?
if you haven't tried their service but have bad things to says they are 100% right to delete your dumbass post

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[bestgr]

Wait so you're saying they deleted your negative post and you say you haven't deposited?
if you haven't tried their service but have bad things to says they are 100% right to delete your dumbass post

Dude... Read the thread before commenting please...
I merely quote a negative feedback from another thread where they never replied and they locked the thread. I wanted to get their comment on this topic too, but instead of replying, they simply deleted my post so that the negative feedback is nowhere to be seen in their thread.

And there is more... you can read the rest of the thread if interested

[PowerBet.io]

"I merely quote a negative feedback from another thread where they never replied and they locked the thread"

So, if you insist on the CENSORING aspect, than at least present the facts about the censoring as they are:

1) You didn't quote the player that actually played on our website (debuni), you quoted a quote of his original reply from s1lverbox, who, in his turn, wasn't our player (but jumped to conclusions), also a quote that left out the positive aspects of debuni's comment, while using bold-red letters to underline what the original player considered we did wrong against him.

2) s1lverbox (again, not our player) expressed his negative comment somewhere in the middle of the old thread (page 5 or so), not that easy to find. So you decided it's a good idea to quote a negative non-player comment into our new thread. By all means this is a Mal-intended move and we had no reasons to let it in our new thread (s1lverbox didn't play on our website, he wasn't writing about HIS own experience with us, he just red-bold his own conclusions based on someone else experience)

3) You posted the opinions of a non-player (are they valuable to new players?), while yourself were not a player at the moment of posting - again, no reason to let you (a non-player) post a comment from another non-player.

4) You are right we never replied to s1lverbox, but WE REPLIED TO OUR PLAYER, debuni. Yes, we tend to ignore negative comments from non-players based on someone else experience, especially when they seem to be well targeted at PowerBet image (leaving out the good aspects of debuni's conclusions on purpose)

For everyone's information, here's a link to the original thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1663357.80
And here's a quote of debuni's (a player that actually played with us), we put in blue the part where he quoted our reply to him:

"Edit for my experience with them:



I want to share my experience with PowerBet.IO and my opinion

My first impression was: Great, a Bitcoin bookie with good looking and intuitive site, good odds and good limits.

But then read about their TOS: One account per person and requiring documents for KYC (ID + Utility bill). Then they decided to remove the KYC procedure so they become one step closer to a real Bitcoin bookie.

And I moved a part of my bets there - I have a series of big losing bet and series of big winning bets in last 3-4 days.
Till today: when my account was limited to 50 mBTC in bets per event, including tonight's Championship League.

When I ask why? I got their response:

Quote from: PowerBet.io on December 06, 2016, 07:42:55 PM
Hi,

I'm sorry, but your account activity exceeded the limits within which a player can be considered as recreational. We're a service dedicated to recreational players only. Your account has not been suspended, you can still enjoy our services within the current limits.

So till I was losing with big bets, I was recreational player. When I won 4-5 big bets, I become an problem.

My final conclusion: Don't bet there! Because at every point you could become "not-recreational" and get limited. There a lot of bookies like NitrogenSports and FairLay where you could have as many accounts as you want and never get limited!

In matter in fairness: I don't have any problems with deposit and withdraws. Withdraws are instant. The problem here is that PowerBet are bringing fiat practices into bitcoin world - like restricting players to one account, limiting anonymity and limiting accounts. Their odds and site are good, but more and more bookies like PowerBet.io and Coinbet24 are trying to screw the whole bitcoin principles. And I cannot support this.


========"

Than you started a new topic in the wrong section (should be under Scams Accusations threadhttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0), where you started by accusing us of censoring. Well, you are entitled to your own opinion on our action of deleting your post from our thread, so feel free to post it in the proper section, with the proper line of events.

Minutes later, you actually sign up with our website and start placing bets that we immediately detected as arbitrage bets - an activity we do not accept (out of principle - betting for fun it's GAMBLING, and services such as ours belong to the Gambling section of this forum, arbitrage betting it's pure math and profit, people practicing it are not even "gamblers"). So we cancelled your bets, INFORMED YOU about our policy and ALLOWED YOU TO WITHDRAW YOUR DEPOSIT) - yet you added "SCAMMING" to your thread title?

None of our players was EVER scammed with a single satoshi!

You're mad we don't allow non-gamblers like yourself to bet with us, we can't help you with that, sorry!

In conclusion, you, a non-gambler, tried to pose as the gambling community defender - warning them about our service not being at your own liking? You, a non-gambler accuse us of censoring and scamming, while every single satoshi of your balance was returned to you?

[bestgr]

So, anyone who has not already played with you and needs to know how well your support is and how you treat your players in order to decide IF he is going to play with you, is not allowed to ask questions?

I wanted to know how easily you limit people and what your response to these accusations would be, in order to decide IF I will bet on your website. But instead, all I got was a locked thread and a deleted post on your self-moderated thread...

I didn't care about the fact that he didn't have problem with deposits/withdraws... I consider this to be the bare minimum for a bookmaker... Yet, you seem so attached to this ONE specific tiny positive comment, that you keep re-hashing it. Makes me think that this is the ONLY thing that you have to offer to your players.

So, anyone who wants to get a response on "Why do you arbitrarily limit people who were losing in the past but started winning now?", should also quote the "No problem with deposits/withdraws" comment? Are you kidding me?

[PowerBet.io]

"So, anyone who has not already played with you and needs to know how well your support is and how you treat your players in order to decide IF he is going to play with you, is not allowed to ask questions?"

What was the question? It was a quote from a non player, full of hate and false accusations, made by a non-player. That quote was in no way relevant to any normal player, it was made on purpose as a hate post in the first place!

"I wanted to know how easily you limit people"

We do limit very fast arbitrage punters! Explanation: out of principle - arbitrage is not gambling. YOU were limited for being an arbitrage player, no other reason - to make this clear to the public!

"So, anyone who wants to get a response on "Why do you arbitrarily limit people who were losing in the past but started winning now?""

The limit was about the amount of betting he was doing, regardless of his bets being winning or not! His betting activity went up to several thousands of EUR/USD equivalent daily, which we considered to be way out of recreational/normal limits.
Why don't you frankly admit that you were worried about us limiting certain amounts of betting stakes JUST BECAUSE you were intending to do arbitrage betting, against our policy? And your arbitrage activity requires high limits.

"I didn't care about the fact that he didn't have problem with deposits/withdraws... I consider this to be the bare minimum for a bookmaker..."

We consider this to be actually EXTREMELY important for players. They can bet with the ease of mind that their winnings will always be paid out INSTANTLY!
Also, what about this part from Debuni: "My first impression was: Great, a Bitcoin bookie with good looking and intuitive site, good odds and good limits." These are not good aspects?
Your only concern is about not getting limited for arbitrage betting?

[bestgr]

What was the question? It was a quote from a non player, full of hate and false accusations, made by a non-player. That quote was in no way relevant to any normal player, it was made on purpose as a hate post in the first place!

The quote involved a complaint about a player, quoted by a non-player, asking why you limited him, simply because you never publicly replied to the player.

We do limit very fast arbitrage punters! Explanation: out of principle - arbitrage is not gambling. YOU were limited for being an arbitrage player, no other reason - to make this clear to the public!

I was limited on my first bet. The amount was 200mBtc, which is your advertised promotion. And when I was limited, instead of e-mailing my account through your website to let me know that you canceled my bets and limited my account, you chose to private message me here (where I have a different username and you STILL haven't explained to the public how you connected my accounts) and gloat about it. Quit using excuses.

The limit was about the amount of betting he was doing, regardless of his bets being winning or not! His betting activity went up to several thousands of EUR/USD equivalent daily, which we considered to be way out of recreational/normal limits.
Why don't you frankly admit that you were worried about us limiting certain amounts of betting stakes JUST BECAUSE you were intending to do arbitrage betting, against our policy? And your arbitrage activity requires high limits.

So, anyone who bets large amounts is not recreational? I know people in NY who bet $10k-$15k per day on single events (recreationally) simply because they enjoy it.
Also, the original player said that he had no problem while he was losing, but once he won 3-4 bets, you limited him.

We consider this to be actually EXTREMELY important for players. They can bet with the ease of mind that their winnings will always be paid out INSTANTLY!
Also, what about this part from Debuni: "My first impression was: Great, a Bitcoin bookie with good looking and intuitive site, good odds and good limits." These are not good aspects?
Your only concern is about not getting limited for arbitrage betting?

Once again, you are paraphrasing my words. I never said it is not important. It is indeed extremely important. I merely said that it is THE BARE MINIMUM that a bookmaker needs to offer to their players, so, I do not think it is a marketing tool. If everyone speaks English, the fact that you speak English too, does not make you any better.
As for the other aspects, look at my initial post. I, too, admitted that you have a nice looking website with good odds and I was ready to start betting on it, when I realized that it is a trap, and you don't actually let people bet on those odds.

[PowerBet.io]

"The quote involved a complaint about a player, quoted by a non-player, asking why you limited him, simply because you never publicly replied to the player."

I don't see any question mark in the quote from s1lverbox. He just took a part of debuni's post and posted it out of context, only for the purpose of attacking us without even being our player and trying out our services. As for replying to the player himself, HE POSTED OUR REPLY TO HIM (given him as pm), therefore there was no need for us to reply again.

"Once again, you are paraphrasing my words. I never said it is not important."

This is what we understood from your statement: "I didn't care about the fact that he didn't have problem with deposits/withdraws..."
Again, this is extremely important for any gambler. For non-gamblers (arbs), this probaly comes in second after concerns about arbitrage activity not being permitted and high betting limits (to make the arbitrage profitable).

[bestgr]

This is what we understood from your statement: "I didn't care about the fact that he didn't have problem with deposits/withdraws..."
Again, this is extremely important for any gambler. For non-gamblers (arbs), this probaly comes in second after concerns about arbitrage activity not being permitted and high betting limits (to make the arbitrage profitable).

You still don't get it. For arbers too, it is very important to have fast and reliable deposits and withdrawals, BUT, it is the minimum service that a bookmaker can offer. If you can't offer that, then you are not even worth checking out your website. The fact that you DO have it, does not give you any advantage over other bookmakers, since they ALL have it (at least the decent ones that are worth checking out).

[money1]

Question for Powerbet.io,
Why you have shared his e-mail address? It is clearly said under your Privacy Policy that it is "Personal Information." And sharing e-mail together with IP and username with other company(companies?) is breach of privacy. So you have given his personal details to third party...doesn't look very good in my eye!

[maku]

They simply delete all negative feedback without ever even commenting on it.

They might as well just take your money and run. There is nothing you can do about it... They'll just delete your comments.

That is common practice, we can't do much about this. Self moderated  threads were invented to fight trolls or idiots. But it also gives the power of censorship to the original poster.
It is way easier to just delete unfavorable comments than trying to answer them directly. I am not familiar with PowerBet.io and can't tell if they seem fair enough service.
All I know that deleting valid concerns and problems of users is not the best way to conduct business and will create doubts instead.

[PowerBet.io]

They simply delete all negative feedback without ever even commenting on it.

They might as well just take your money and run. There is nothing you can do about it... They'll just delete your comments.

That is common practice, we can't do much about this. Self moderated  threads were invented to fight trolls or idiots. But it also gives the power of censorship to the original poster.
It is way easier to just delete unfavorable comments than trying to answer them directly. I am not familiar with PowerBet.io and can't tell if they seem fair enough service.
All I know that deleting valid concerns and problems of users is not the best way to conduct business and will create doubts instead.

While we were determined to no longer reply to this thread for obvious reasons (flame thread made by a non-gambler in the wrong "Gambling" section), we must just admire your post: it's indeed a fair and correct one. We won't comment on the "trolls or idiots" part (   ), but we will comment on "All I know that deleting valid concerns and problems of users is not the best way to conduct business and will create doubts instead."
Yes, you are absolutely right!
BUT, in this specific case, we didn't delete a "valid concern or problem of a user"! As mentioned before, it was a quote of a "troll" comment of a non-user, made by another non-user. It didn't even contain a question. The answer to the real user (debuni) was there, in the first thread, for anyone concerned to read it! Everything else were troll comments such as s1lverbox one, that the op, for whatever reason, decided to quote in our new thread. And we started the new self moderated thread just to keep troll comments out (such as s1lverbox one).
Indeed, we are also very well aware that not all negative comments are troll comments. And we've listened to the community before - when we were warned about our KYC policy, we completely removed it. But, when you quote an obvious troll comment from our old thread that was closed specifically for that reason, you should expect to have it deleted. We invite anyone that has legitimate questions, concerns or simply suggestions to just ask them in our thread!

The funny side of this entire thread is the fact that the op himself is not even a gambler. At least, not reported to our services (he might gamble for real on other websites, we can't possible know that).
We took pretty much every single of his statements against us and showed the public how wrong he is!
In the end, we even witnessed him admitting that our sportsbook is one of the best out there, but we just don't allow arbitrage! Here are the quotes:

"For arbers too, it is very important to have fast and reliable deposits and withdrawals" - so we, the so called "scammers", offer fast and reliable deposits and withdrawals - a correction is due here: our withdrawals are automatically and instantly processed, not just "fast", it's the fastest way for any player to cash out! Even for non-players like himself!

"I, too, admitted that you have a nice looking website with good odds" - thank you for your appreciation! Despite being so determined at attacking us, would you also take the time to give the public your impression on our newly launched mobile version?

Jokes aside, at this point we're convinced that the public realized by now three main aspects about our sportsbook:

1. We never scammed anyone a single satoshi
2. While we brought to the public a fast, modern and intuitive betting platform with decent promotions (we're working on adding more) and competitive odds, we just won't allow trolls and flamers to just throw false accusations at us!
3. We'll always listen to the bitcointalk gambling community for legitimate concerns and suggestions. We've already did it once by entirely removing our KYC policy.

[bestgr]

I, too, am tired of arguing in this thread.

You are stuck on the "If you are not our player, I refuse to comment on your concerns" approach.

My whole opposition to your approach is based on the fact that people need a better definition of your "non-recreational player" conditions. You mentioned that you limited the original player (I don't recall his username) because he started betting large amounts daily.

In my opinion, if you are going to limit people for placing large bets, you should simply have automatic and well defined "max bets" that people know of in advance, or you should at least define "large" in your rules so that people can know in advance where they are getting into and not be limited out of the blue.
For example, I would consider it very honorable and highly acceptable if you mentioned something like "Each player is allowed to wager a maximum of X BTC per day" or something like that.

No player (recreational or not) likes the idea of betting blindly on a website and wondering "Am I going to be limited?".

Better structured rules lead to less ambiguity which in turn leads to more certainty which leads to more players on your platform.

So, if I come now and place a single 200mBtc bet on your platform, am I a non-recreational player? If yes, how do you define it? If I know it in advance, I won't even bother placing it. It will save time both on my side and yours, and I won't break your rules due to ambiguity. See my point?


PS: I can't comment on the mobile version as I haven't used it.

[ioanna1990]

I placed a bet on powerbet on Spartak Moscow +1.5 Asian Handicap, the game ended in a draw (1-1), yet the system showed that I lost.

https://i.imgur.com/fj0lZ3g.png

The image is not edited in any way. I bet on +1.5 and then the support team argued that I had placed a bet on -1.5 and that it was an error of the system, and canceled my bet.

DO NOT TRUST THEM WITH YOUR MONEY. They find ways to lure you in and take your money using shady techniques. In my case, they displayed fake odds, and when I won, they quoted their bullshit Terms of Use that it was an error and canceled my bet. Plain and simple.

[Joey Zaza]

"Gambling is an exciting adult leisure pursuit and, at Powerbet, we want our customers to enjoy betting and gaming with us. We are committed to
fair and socially responsible service."

How is if "fair" if you don't let people win?

Your customer service is dismal. I haven't heard a thing from you since making a 400mBtc payout request on March 20th.

[game-protect]

I have sufficient info and documents to file criminal complaints at the police or start a court case if required, but I personally think that they will simply process your withdrawal, because everything else will become unlike more expensive for them.

Discussion thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1535816.msg18598520#msg18598520

[Barnstorm]

Seems PowerBet.io is offline now. Did they finally take the rest of the money and run?

[game-protect]

Seems PowerBet.io is offline now. Did they finally take the rest of the money and run?

Considering that no one of the victims was willing to go after them in Swiss, I do not think that they run.

[Barnstorm]

Can someone help me understand why arbitrage betting would not be allowed? If an operator is accepting bets at specified odds, does it really matter if the bet is a regular one or an arbitrage bet?

I'm thinking the same thing whatever should be the outcome of the match the bookie should still profit cmiiw. The only reason I could think about is to lessen the risk that they will face in their site.

I agree. You would think they would be happy for the action and the commissions. If they are confident that they always and consistently post good lines, (which I think they do) then no one can take advantage. I think what happens though, is that arbitragers will eventually catch them with some bad lines and beat them. Pinnacle welcomes arbitragers because they are confident that their lines will always deliver them a profit in the long term and they will never get caught with a bad line.

[Barnstorm]

Does anyone know if Powerbet.io closed up and ran off with all customer balances? Or did they refund some account money before closing?

[DarkStar_]

Does anyone know if Powerbet.io closed up and ran off with all customer balances? Or did they refund some account money before closing?

My bet is on the former.