Merit? This got to be a joke.

[King_G_]

Hi all!

I find it highly annoying that this merit system is still around.
It is supose to be stimulating people to make good quality posts or topics, but i doesnt seems to work this way.

I see alot of people selling there merit to whoever wants it, is this even legit? It means people with multiple accounts can dominate bitcointalk, earn the most bounty rewards( multiple with more accounts) and can give merrit out to themselves and can get alot of bounty stakes, while other who do there best arent even able to join because they cant reach member status!

Even more annoying is the fact that members and above( not all of you ) just post crappy posts all over the place, and keep spamming away with no consequences. Its just sick, like in the real world, the rich get richer, its insane do something about it.
Greetings!  

Yes absolutely  , it's just impossible to earn with just constructive posts .
Believe me I don't think that's how this system works , people like us are not getting noticed and people who already have merits keep increasing their count ,
No offense to Senior users why don't newbies and Juniors with good quality posts aren't getting what they deserve.
I'm not totally against this system but I think it needs correction.

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[stompix]

I propose 2016 for activity and Merit for this New rank, and I would go with something like "Mythical" for the name.

Why not 2008 (the year the whitepaper was published)?

"More Merit than satoshi" could be a good threshold.

That's blasphemy !!!!! 

[Sutters Mill]

Yes absolutely  , it's just impossible to earn with just constructive posts .
Believe me I don't think that's how this system works , people like us are not getting noticed and people who already have merits keep increasing their count ,
No offense to Senior users why don't newbies and Juniors with good quality posts aren't getting what they deserve.
I'm not totally against this system but I think it needs correction.

Merit system is a good idea in theory, but I think it needs some tweaking to make it work effectively. The number of sources probably needs to be greatly adjusted and maybe the merit requirements lowered for certain ranks, but maybe that will open up the system to abuse. I see lots of posts that I'd like to merit but I just run out of merit within minutes. I don't really need merit as there's no difference to me between Hero and Legendary, though I;d like to get there eventually, but despite my posts being pretty good [in my opinion] and much better than average I've received very few merit. I was very surprised to wake up this morning to see one post received 7 though, but at this rate it will probably take me years to get enough to be Legendary. A lower ranked user making okay or average posts probably has no chance or will take them years to get to a fairly high rank. I guess it's bout finding a balance between it being an effective system that minimizes abuse but also allowing people to realistically achieve ranks.

[LoyceV]

The number of sources probably needs to be greatly adjusted ~
I see lots of posts that I'd like to merit but I just run out of merit within minutes.

Why don't you apply to be a merit source? See this post.

You're not a spammer, so in my opinion you shouldn't be limited by Merit. I could probably merit more of your posts, but I'm kinda busy at the moment with something else (and the forum is terribly slow today)

[Sutters Mill]

The number of sources probably needs to be greatly adjusted ~
I see lots of posts that I'd like to merit but I just run out of merit within minutes.

Why don't you apply to be a merit source? See this post.

I'll check it out. Do people get added as merit sources often though? I see there's lots of people waiting for account recoveries so is this really a priority for admins?

You're not a spammer, so in my opinion you shouldn't be limited by Merit. I could probably merit more of your posts, but I'm kinda busy at the moment with something else (and the forum is terribly slow today)

Appreciate the reward but if you have a limited amount of it it's probably best saving it for lower ranks who need it more than I do.

[suchmoon]

I'll check it out. Do people get added as merit sources often though? I see there's lots of people waiting for account recoveries so is this really a priority for admins?

There have been 4-5 merit sources added over the last couple of months. It can't hurt to submit your application.

[MainIbem]

Hi all!

I find it highly annoying that this merit system is still around.
It is supose to be stimulating people to make good quality posts or topics, but i doesnt seems to work this way.

I see alot of people selling there merit to whoever wants it, is this even legit? It means people with multiple accounts can dominate bitcointalk, earn the most bounty rewards( multiple with more accounts) and can give merrit out to themselves and can get alot of bounty stakes, while other who do there best arent even able to join because they cant reach member status!

Even more annoying is the fact that members and above( not all of you ) just post crappy posts all over the place, and keep spamming away with no consequences. Its just sick, like in the real world, the rich get richer, its insane do something about it.
Greetings!  

I see your complaint more sentimental than factual.

1. You saw someone selling merit and you did nothing about it.
2. You are taking a swipe on higher rank members for posting crappy post.

I noticed that in the quest for members to rank up, there is an erroneous belief that every of their posts should be merited. It does not work like that. There is no need to get upset. Just go on making contributions and you will be surprised how you will be awarded merits.

[CryptoSparks]

I also think that the merit system is good in theory but can be improved.
For example in the local sections there are very few merit sources.

There are 84 merit for sources with a total merit generation of up to 19500 sMerit per 30 days

84 sources for 2 mln users.

it's true that bitcointalk is now a mirror of society where the richer get richer, but shouldn't we be used to this already?  
If you can live in the real world you can accept the merit system

[finaleshot2016]

The number of sources probably needs to be greatly adjusted ~
I see lots of posts that I'd like to merit but I just run out of merit within minutes.

Why don't you apply to be a merit source? See this post.

You're not a spammer, so in my opinion you shouldn't be limited by Merit. I could probably merit more of your posts, but I'm kinda busy at the moment with something else (and the forum is terribly slow today)

I also agree to what @sutters said, creating more merit source in each local board could be the solution and it can develop each members. This will also inspire them to continue their journey in crypto.


@LoyceV we also have a representative for being a merit source in our local, Is it true that it takes a lot of time to review the applicant to be accepted?

[nutildah]

I also think that the merit system is good in theory but can be improved.
For example in the local sections there are very few merit sources.

There are 84 merit for sources with a total merit generation of up to 19500 sMerit per 30 days

84 sources for 2 mln users.

it's true that bitcointalk is now a mirror of society where the richer get richer, but shouldn't we be used to this already?  
If you can live in the real world you can accept the merit system

I agree there should be more Merit sources. Knowing my Merit is very finite makes me not want to dole it out as much as I would if I was a Merit source (I haven't applied but maybe I will some day).

There's over 2.3 million members but you're forgetting that most of them are either non-active or shitposters looking to game the system. Of the 447 average that sign up per day, I'd bet 400 of them are a combination of bots, shitposters (airdroppers and sig campaigners), and people who otherwise don't give a damn about anything other than how to get "free money." The amount of time noobs waste on this forum in an attempt to make "easy money" is simply fucking astounding.

Unfortunately I think all that's happened after the Merit System was introduced is sig campaigns lowered their standards for admittance, regardless it does make it harder for account farmers so it should remain. Until noobs realize that 90%+ of tokens they get from bounties and airdrops are worthless and start telling their friends, we're going to continue to see this great influx of morons into the forum continue.

[tranthidung]

I also think that the merit system is good in theory but can be improved.
For example in the local sections there are very few merit sources.

There are 84 merit for sources with a total merit generation of up to 19500 sMerit per 30 days

84 sources for 2 mln users.

it's true that bitcointalk is now a mirror of society where the richer get richer, but shouldn't we be used to this already?  
If you can live in the real world you can accept the merit system

In my opinion, even if all 84 merit sources worked hard and efficiently, they have still alsmot been unable to catch all high quality threads to give their smerits away.
They all are human, not robots, so it's bigger probability to miss high quality threads for sure.
However, merit source applications should be verified as strictly as possible to avoid potential greedy merit sources, who can abuse the merit system after got acceptance to be a merit source and start using their allocated sMerits for merit exchange.

[LoyceV]

Appreciate the reward but if you have a limited amount of it it's probably best saving it for lower ranks who need it more than I do.

Merit is meant to highlight good posts and restrict spammers, so I don't exclude higher ranks. I've never been out of sMerit to give, and I'm having a really hard time handing out more than I receive (probably because I give only 1 most of the time).

I also think that the merit system is good in theory but can be improved.
For example in the local sections there are very few merit sources.

That's a community effort: someone has to step up and apply to be a merit source.

84 sources for 2 mln users.

Less than 1% of those 2 million users has received Merit.

If you can live in the real world you can accept the merit system

There is such a system: some get paid more than others in the real world. Sometimes it's deserved, sometimes it isn't.

@LoyceV we also have a representative for being a merit source in our local, Is it true that it takes a lot of time to review the applicant to be accepted?

Mine took about 3 months, some were much faster, and some are still waiting.

Of the 447 average that sign up per day, I'd bet 400 of them are a combination of bots, shitposters (airdroppers and sig campaigners), and people who otherwise don't give a damn about anything other than how to get "free money."

It took 42 days to go from 2200000 to 2300000 user accounts. That's over 2000 new accounts per day, 16,000 per week. Last week, only 241 users received Merit for the first time, and most of them were old accounts already.

In my opinion, even if all 84 merit sources worked hard and efficiently, they have still alsmot been unable to catch all high quality threads to give their smerits away.

Good threads are hard to find because there are so many bad posts. But from what I've seen, I don't think many good threads get overlooked.

[vphasitha01]

I also think that the merit system is good in theory but can be improved.
For example in the local sections there are very few merit sources.
 
There are 84 merit for sources with a total merit generation of up to 19500 sMerit per 30 days

84 sources for 2 mln users.

it's true that bitcointalk is now a mirror of society where the richer get richer, but shouldn't we be used to this already?  
If you can live in the real world you can accept the merit system

I am a member who always believes that the introduction of Merit system is the best thing happened for the bitcointalk forum. It's not good in theory but practically too. However, I'm not saying it's the best system and it also needs some tweaks like take actions against large-scale merit abuse, merit trading, demerit option where necessary, actions for hiding merit abuses when deleting their own posts etc...

I also agreed with "nutildah" that the fact there is no 2 mln, active users after removing bots and shitposters. I think those statistics can be provided by "LoyceV" or "DdmrDdmr". So your calculations to be revised accordingly that data too. Your argument of "richer get richer" is absolutely wrong. If it is true all the Legendary members should have earned more merits than all other members. But check the Merit data and it shows there are so many Legendary members are staying only with their airdropped Merits (without earned merits). I think you just felt system didn't work when some of the higher rank members more often getting merited than others. But the truth is they often make quality posts than others.

When I am looking to your post history it is more obvious why that you're not getting any merits. Almost all the posts that you have posted were in ANN threads. I think it's better to avoid those threads if you're really want to earn merits and contribute to other members by sharing your knowledge and post your suggestions for valuable discussions. After making so many posts in ANN threads then you're trying to blame the system by posting here and also making a thread in Meta too. I think you and you only to be blamed rather than the system.

Another thing that I believe is we need more merit sources not only for local sections but also for other English boards too. Because most of the discussions are going on mainboards since this is an international forum.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

[DdmrDdmr]

<…>
I also agreed with "nutildah" that the fact there is no 2 mln, active users after removing bots and shitposters. I think those statistics can be provided by "LoyceV" or "DdmrDdmr". So your calculations to be revised accordingly that data too.
 <…>       

Unfortunately, I don’t scrape a vast  amount of data such as all user profiles to answer this question.
Per Vod’s definition used in the BPIP, which does work on all the forum user profile base, an active user is one who has logged in within the last three months. The site states there are currently 444.249 active profiles, which is really nearly a sixth of the entire user base of Bitcointalk.

mazdafunsun has been publishing stats on this recently ( 2 million users and their stats ), and reduces his figure to 90.993, using as active user definition users that have logged in within the last year. He deliberately leaves out newbies and beginners in the calculation and focuses on core users.
Although he has analysed the first 2 million user profiles, there are probably more active users proportionally in the remaining profiles (2.335.558 is the current number of total member officially, so a total of 335.558 are not accounted for), for those are the most recent ones and have not been included in the analysis.

Regardless, If we want to contrast active users to merits somehow, I would go for a more restrictive definition of active user. I would consider an active user for this exercise as one that has posted at least once in a given period of time. Say for example we want to contrast merit given in the past 3 months to active users. We need to consider users that have posted at least once in the same period of time, in order to postulate as a candidate to receive merit in the first place (logging in is not enough for this kind of exercise).

Of course, even this definition would not take us to a terrain that conforms a 100% accurate scenario, since for example posts outside the 3 month example window frame may be merited, so an inactive user may have been merited for previous posts. Regardless, this is a lesser noise factor in the calculations, and the results should be pretty much correct.

So why can’t we do this sort of exercise easily?
Because while the “last active” bit of information is part of the user profile and can easily (but patiently) be scraped, the "last post" cannot. You would either need to enter the user’s profile and scrape data from the last post (not easy at all), or compare two different snapshots to see the post difference. This can be done, but it’s tedious work over 2,3 Million records that download at a rate of one user profile every 2 seconds at best.
Ideally, a field on the user profile with the date of the last post or a counter on Nº posts in a month would allow a simple analysis and distinguish between logged-in users and posting-users when compared to merits awarded to posting users.

[CryptoSparks]

If it is true all the Legendary members should have earned more merits than all other members.

This is where you are wrong. The rich gets richer can also be validated if you make it extremely hard for the others to reach your rank. Doesn't mean that the Legendary members receive more merits.
the outcome is the same.

When I am looking to your post history it is more obvious why that you're not getting any merits. Almost all the posts that you have posted were in ANN threads. I think it's better to avoid those threads if you're really want to earn merits and contribute to other members by sharing your knowledge and post your suggestions for valuable discussions. After making so many posts in ANN threads then you're trying to blame the system by posting here and also making a thread in Meta too. I think you and you only to be blamed rather than the system.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

Is true that most of my posting is in ANNS, simply because i'm a translator. I don't care to earn merits so i can get a better signature. I never join signature campaigns.
But i admit i would love to have the privilege to earn an avatar 

The post that i made shows that the majority of high ranked members have a perfect merit score, thanks to distribution, and that most of them didn't earn a single merit point in 7 months.
that's the problem. Is way too hard to earn merit, maintening the status quo of who is high ranked with an airdrop.

[Deena]

Dear fellows,

Who of you thought that the merit system was designed for quality posting? It was designed for only one thing: To keep the small members small. Together with the trust system eliminating the inconvenient higher ranked members the olichargy was established and maintained. Exactly as Theymos apparently wanted it to be.

Hail the movement of decentralisation. 

[CryptoSparks]

Hail the movement of decentralisation.  

That's what i'm saying. Ripple is more decentralized than this forum  

[hilariousetc]

Hail the movement of decentralisation.  

That's what i'm saying. Ripple is more decentralized than this forum  

This isn't a decentralised forum and never was. It's a centralised one with owners and rules in an attempt to keep order, only the limited amount of rules aren't being enforced much and people are bending and breaking them in an which way they can, and as such the forum has become unfit for purpose. Merit was a way to try combat the abuse of account farming but it needs some adjustments and other rules or restrictions need to be put in place.

[theyoungmillionaire]

It was designed for only one thing: To keep the small members small. Together with the trust system eliminating the inconvenient higher ranked members the olichargy oligarchy was established and maintained. Exactly as Theymos apparently wanted it to be.

Hi, Deena,

I don’t really agree with that. Olichargy Oligarchy by its delineation as per wikipedia a form of power structure in which power rests with a small number of people, may be distinguished by nobility, wealth, family ties, religious or military control. Have you seen people controlling the merit system? As I can see merit sources are doing great in spreading merit and not kept it in few. I am actually nobody when I started here and from the 3rd world country Philippines (per oligarchy is concern I’m not from the elite country), but, as you can see I managed to get the merit needed for a Hero member (your interpretation of oligarchy (bitcointalk) is not valid).

Since, I have also read that bitcointalk is more on ‘Politics stuff’, have you ever seen me post or have merits by publishing my works or what I have done to our community? No. While people are celebrating and publishing what they have done, which really contributes in our community, I am just reading them because I know part of me helped that member (some people will know what I have done in our community even if I am nobody -contributing in private). We all know that politics published things to gain votes, in bitcointalk, it is not defined by how many published stuff you have created, but the impact you have done to our community. Another proof that even a nobody can make a difference-you can do it too, instead of doing this kind of criticism (I am not against criticism-as long as it is for the benefit of our community and constructive) try to find yourself, follow what you think will benefit you and our community-enjoyment.   

Is way too hard to earn merit

A humble advice, merit is hard, merit ruins life, merit is good and blah blah blah- it is all in your mind.
Whatever your mind has defined, it will be your reality.

Good luck!

See you around.

[xtraelv]

I don’t really agree with that. Olichargy Oligarchy by its delineation as per wikipedia a form of power structure in which power rests with a small number of people, may be distinguished by nobility, wealth, family ties, religious or military control. Have you seen people controlling the merit system? As I can see merit sources are doing great in spreading merit and not kept it in few. I am actually nobody when I started here and from the 3rd world country Philippines (per oligarchy is concern I’m not from the elite country), but, as you can see I managed to get the merit needed for a Hero member (your interpretation of oligarchy (bitcointalk) is not valid).

You have more merit than you know what to do with. I've never seen you bitch and moan about the merit system expecting them to come magically for a three line post.

I have seen you spend hours and hours working on quality posts that on topics that you are enthusiastic about. Some of those topics keep on earning you merit. Maintaining them and keeping them updated. Chatting - both learning and teaching.

I have also seen you spend hours on translating topics that stops people from getting scammed and help people understand features the forum.

Then again maybe you are one of them...olives.. oligogenes.....oligarchy...merit getters!