MtGox Bitcoin Lawsuit

[ronaldmaustin]

MtGox is reportedly intending to seek Bankruptcy protection.  I intend to do 2 things.  

First, I want to file a preliminary report with the FBI as I believe what has transpired at MtGox is nothing short of plain fraud, possibly resulting tens of millions of dollars in losses or more.  I believe that the frozen bitcoins have been stolen by Mark Karpeles and that is one of two types of direct loss incurred by users of MtGox.  I personally have had money sitting in MtGox's accounts and have been promised for weeks that some "banking issue" (unrelated to the alleged issue for freezing the bitcoins)  delayed the requested wire transfer of my money to me.  My losses are small in this regard, but I would like to have everyone post a brief description of similar problems in this thread in order that I can take it to the FBI and I will report back on the agent that would lead any investigation.  In other words, I would like to form a clearinghouse of witnesses and their losses (and be a central point of contact for them ) and make that information available to the FBI for investigation and prosecution.

Second, as to the Bankruptcy, I intend to file an adversary proceeding in the bankruptcy alleging fraud and do discovery to ascertain what, specifically, Mr. Karpeles did with the money in users accounts and the frozen bitcons.  A receiver would likely be appointed and I would like to reconcile what Mr. Karpeles reports in his bankruptcy filings with the actual losses of the users.  I would then ask the Bankruptcy judge to refer the matter for prosecution for Bankruptcy fraud and dismiss the Bankruptcy.  *I am not asking for funding for a lawyer or anything of that nature.*  I believe the other intended lawsuit here ("multi plaintiff" but not "class action") will be halted by the automatic stay in Bankruptcy in the early stages (which is obviously among Mr. Karpeles intentions in filing the BK). However I look forward to working with that attorney as well as the attorney in the Coinlab suit (to the extent of finding out what discovery in that case has revealed.)  I have my own lawyers that I work with.  My main purpose is to see Mr. Karpeles prosecuted and my secondary purpose is to hopefully have as much money returned to Mt Gox's clients as possible.

Feel free to PM me if this thread gets taken over by opinions and one-liners about Mt Gox or speculation as to what has occurred.  I beg you all to refrain from that.  Just tell your story in a few lines as to what you were promised and what you lost.  You can check my posts and see that I was scratching around in the dirt years ago here when mining pools were just starting, so I do have some background.

Again, I am just trying to make some initial contact with witnesses.  I particularly look forward to speaking with anyone with specific information as to the fraud I'm alleging.  If anyone from MtGox has such information, bear in mind that you may not be prosecuted if you are the first one through the door over at the FBI.  Maybe I can help you make that happen.

[madsquirrel]

How many years ago were mining pools just starting?

[nauticatom]

Dear FBI - Mt Gox, the company that traded Magic the Gathering Cards, stole my Magic Internet Money... Mind you I transact this Magic Internet Money in sub 10k usd volumes as to avoid IRS scrutiny, and paying taxes / dealing with regulation,  But now that they are gone, I want you to step in , using tax payer money,  and get back my magic internet money, to which I wont pay taxes for.


Yeah that will go over well... Let me know how you make out with the Bureau,, When I see anyone at mt gox in handcuffs, ill apologize.

[repentance]

Dear FBI - Mt Gox, the company that traded Magic the Gathering Cards, stole my Magic Internet Money... Mind you I transact this Magic Internet Money in sub 10k usd volumes as to avoid IRS scrutiny, and paying taxes / dealing with regulation,  But now that they are gone, I want you to step in , using tax payer money,  and get back my magic internet money, to which I wont pay taxes for.


Yeah that will go over well... Let me know how you make out with the Bureau,, When I see anyone at mt gox in handcuffs, ill apologize.

They could still end up in handcuffs as a result of federal investigations already in progress.  No doubt the OP will want kudos if that happens.

[acidwing]

I invested my money at Mtgox when I heard about bitcoin from a friend. I was inspired the idea of a decentralised internet currency that was not being controlled and manipulated by large wall street banks. I was reassured by the slogan on the site proclaiming it to be the safest and largest bitcoin exchange and by promises in the terms and conditions that my investment would be transferred back to me upon my request.

I purchased a number of bitcoin and used some of them to purchase products and kept some aside as an investment. When the investment grew, I attempted to withdraw approximately half of my funds. I sold my bitcoin on the mygox echange for Euro's and initiated a bank transfer using the sites interface. The site issued a message explaining to me that they were having difficulty processing withdrawals and to wait up to a month for my transfer to be completed.

A month later and my withdrawal was still pending. I contacted mtgox support and I am still awaiting an answer. I learned also from the internet that mtgox had suspended bitcoin withdrawals. Upon checking I found this to be true. I attempted to remove the bitcoins I had bought earlier to another exchange and I was told that "the transfer queue was not accepting any more requests."

Last night the trading engine halted and the website went offline. the company promised me I was buying bitcoins with my money and that I would be able to withdraw them, or any remaining fiat currency upon request. I am now requesting it and my funds are not being given to me.

The behaviour of this company violates a number of laws where I live in the UK. I am a peaceful person and I have acted in good faith throughout. I see the bitcoin as property that can be tracked and traced through the internet and that cannot be forged. By promising to provide me with a platform to exchange my fiat currency in to the bitcoin which I would then be able to take elsewhere the mtgox company lied to me. By promising to return any fiat currency in my account and then failing to do so the company lied to me again.

I submit that the directors and shareholders of mtgox company have dishonestly appropriated my property in the form of both the fiat currency I entrusted with them and the bitcoin I purchased using their site, with the intention of permanently depriving me of their use. This is a crime in the UK under sections 1 - 7 of the theft act 1968


 

 

[ErgoOne]

Don't disregard the possibility that the OP might *deserve* those kudos if the FBI arrests Mr. Karpeles, or whoever is responsible for the Great Bitcoin Heist(tm) against Mt. Gox.  Don't disregard the likelihood that anybody who had bitcoins deposited with Mt. Gox is SOL when it comes to getting them back, either, even if the FBI finds the perp.  A few lessons from this:

1) Don't treat uninsured, unregulated "banks" and "currency exchanges" as if they were risk-free.  They're not.

2) Don't treat money as yours until you have it in a safe place.  Your own keychain is a safe place, *if* you keep it encrypted and keep current backups.  A safe deposit box at your bank, or a fire-resistant strongbox at home, make it even safer.

I had about .000004 of a bitcoin left in Mt. Gox, not enough to worry about.  I left it there in 2010 or 2011, when I concluded that Mt. Gox was not being operated by standards that I trusted for my money and withdrew most of what I had.  I don't use Paypal either, for the same reason. :/

If you want to see Bitcoin become something other than a currency speculator's wet dream, I suggest that you start planning a banking and financial system that has the same basic safeguards as exist for fiat money.  That system is a LONG way from perfect or secure, but it has some degree of accountability built-in.  When bitcoin has that, and when the current currency fluctuations die down, it will be something that businesses will be willing to accept as more than an experiment, and people will then be able to use as they would dollars or euros or yen.

[repentance]

Mark has admitted in IRC that the information in the "leaked document" is essentially true but not produced by MtGox.

[10:58] <JonWickedFire> Is that Crisis Strategy Draft even legit?
[11:04] <MagicalTux> more or less
[11:05] <MagicalTux> as the name suggests it's a draft, and it's a bunch of proposals to deal with the issue at hand, not things that are actually planned and/or done
[11:06] <MagicalTux> this said this document was not produced by MtGox
[11:07] <JonWickedFire> I saw some strategies in there that I had shared with you, but also saw some things in there that I would have never suggested anyone ever go through with as it would make you look horrible..
[11:07] <JonWickedFire> I think a lot of people ignored the draft part.
[11:08] <JonWickedFire> It was just really surprising to see that being "leaked"..
[11:10] <JonWickedFire> Do you think it was leaked by someone purposely to hurt you personally or gox in general?
[11:13] <MagicalTux> [01:09:51] <JonWickedFire> Do you think it was leaked by someone purposely to hurt you personally or gox in general? <- I have some doubts

http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-shit/179038-my-conversation-mark-karpeles-mtgox-2.html#post2164682

Those considering lawsuits should ensure that any lawyers they consult are aware of the high likelihood that Japanese insolvency proceedings will be a factor in any legal claims.

Please don't let yourselves be talked into paying lawyers proposing actions which will probably be futile.  An unenforceable judgement isn't worth the paper on which it's written.

FinCEN has already acknowledged that it's aware of reports regarding MtGox - the feds already know about this shit.

Steve Hudak, spokesman for Treasury's anti-money laundering unit, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), said it is "aware of the reports regarding Mt. Gox" but had no additional comment. To date it is the only U.S. regulatory agency to have any oversight of Mt. Gox.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/25/us-mtgox-website-idUSBREA1O07920140225

[Prototype]

Here is a link to another document that provides some history and insight into Mt Gox and their operations and very well summarizes the issues.

http://antonopoulos.com/2014/02/25/statement-on-mt-gox/

[heavyb]

I personally have had money sitting in MtGox's accounts and have been promised for weeks that some "banking issue" (unrelated to the alleged issue for freezing the bitcoins)  delayed the requested wire transfer of my money to me.  

This is exactly what they said to me also. This is flat out financial fraud and I have all the emails to prove it. I have contact law firms about their class action lawsuits. PM me and we can discuss this further.

[TechieCFO]

When i first looked at Bitcoin 6 months ago, it was to determine if it was a system or a scheme.
I decided it was a system. In looking at Mt. Gox, I have an account there, I decided a system
where there were already plenty reports of hacking attempts etc. was not a place to
have an online wallet. So, while Mt. Gox failed, I lost nothing since I stored nothing
there or at any other exchange.

For those of you that did, tough luck. Expensive lesson. Next time, do your homework.

A Mt. Gox BK and any associated lawsuits simply enables the foes of Bitcoin to pour lots of bad publicity into
the media engine, who simply repeat what they hear, in most cases. That's not good for
Bitcoin, and I am sorry to see that.

I hope my wallet is safe. Sadly, I am too inept at this point to be really sure.  I encrypted it
with a long passphrase and stored a backup in two secure places, one a thumb drive. I would
consider a thumb drive the basic equivalent of a hardware wallet, but I am unsure, since I
don't know where the private key is stored or whether its stored securely. SO, I have some
homework to do. If I am lucky, some nice participant here will suggest how things work.
That does not remove my need to do homework. It just changes my to do list to vouch what
that person says, since I do not trust any word of anyone anywhere at anytime except the words
of my family. That's just me, skepticism is a good method to screen out the wackos :-)
You all can do what you please.

In the bigger picture, Mt. Gox is a failure of Bitcoin and its league of developers. You all knew of the
problem and didn't fix it. Now, I hope the developers have more motivation to fix it.

OR perhaps they should not. Perhaps online wallets and centralized exchanges simply are inappropriate
features that should die while Darwin smiles.  That's my contribution here.

Think before you act. The choices made now may reverberate for quite some time. It reminds me of the choice Gates made at MS. He chose
not to follow the existing security model of Unix available at that time for DOS 1.0. That was a bad choice
but obviously he overcame that flaw. Sort of, anyway :-)

[TechieCFO]

I have substantial experience in court rooms and have authorized
millions of dollars of expenditures in various proceedings over
the decades.

Those of you contemplating being involved in a lawsuit should
consider this:

A. If the amount you have lost is less than $10 million, you'll
run an extremely great risk that the lawyer fees will result in you netting
absolutely $zero in return for your efforts, your time and your money.

B. See rule A.

C. Typically the only winners in a lawsuit are the lawyers.

D. Everything can be argued for nearly infinite time frames
when the people arguing can bill someone at $400 per hour.