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Author Topic: Want to be short bitcoin? Borrow from me.  (Read 2113 times)
gmaxwell
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October 17, 2011, 07:35:11 PM
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Greetings.  So— you're convinced that bitcoin is going down for good.  Great for you— personally I haven't a clue.

What I do have is some bitcoin, so I'm entertaining requests for bitcoin loans.

Here is how it will work:

You'll figure out how much you want to borrow (up to what I'm willing to lend you),  and you'll put up a significant multiple of that bitcoin's current market value in gold, USD, or some other agreeable non-cryptocurrency asset into a third party escrow (I suppose you could up up an equal value of BTC, but if you've got the coin why borrow from me? I won't accept alternative block chains as collateral).

You'll pay me a modest amount for interest who's value depends on the amount you've put in escrow and the maximum length of the loan— and I'm willing to negotiate over the exact terms this.

Presumably you'll sell the coin after borrowing it from me then buy it back later when the market price is lower... but thats your business I don't care.

When the loan expires (or any time before then) you either return the same amount of bitcoin,  or you break the contract and I get the escrowed funds.

I benefit because I'll make some income on coins I was just going to sit on, the risk to me that you're compensating me for is the risk that bitcoin increases a bunch in value and you break the contract and all I get is the escrowed funds back.

The benefit to you is that you get to make use of your superior predictive powers. Without my help all you can do is tell everyone how smart you are, with my help you can prove it and profit from it.
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fivebells
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October 17, 2011, 07:40:10 PM
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What escrow service?
Gyom
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October 17, 2011, 08:22:45 PM
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I might be interested, especially if you plan to be able to provide this service on a regular basis.

How many bitcoins would you be comfortable lending this way? (you can PM me if you don't want the public to know this information).

Thanks!
gmaxwell
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October 17, 2011, 08:23:19 PM
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What escrow service?

I'm looking for suggestions on this point.
imsaguy
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October 17, 2011, 11:10:58 PM
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What escrow service?

I'm looking for suggestions on this point.


I've got a pretty decent reputation in #bitcoin-otc as well as on the forums now and would be willing to be an impartial 3rd party escrow/observer.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
astana
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October 23, 2011, 03:33:13 PM
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While I think there are some people who can be labeled "trusted traders" I would never ever put that much responsibility into 1 persons hands. 1 day he can be the most honest guy on the block, next a scamming theif.

Escrow services do exist, moneybookers has one which would be perfect for the buyer, gives you protection/charge-back options but for the seller not so much, + I think it's only 14 days maximum.
fivebells
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October 23, 2011, 03:47:56 PM
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Yes, the escrow is the really tricky part of this.  I doubt that any consumer-oriented escrow service could be turned to this purpose.  (Though I would love to be proven wrong.  If there were a safe way to escrow the money, I would definitely go for this.)
imsaguy
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October 23, 2011, 04:42:28 PM
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While I think there are some people who can be labeled "trusted traders" I would never ever put that much responsibility into 1 persons hands. 1 day he can be the most honest guy on the block, next a scamming theif.

Escrow services do exist, moneybookers has one which would be perfect for the buyer, gives you protection/charge-back options but for the seller not so much, + I think it's only 14 days maximum.

Perhaps, but I also have many loans out with other people.  So if I were to suddenly go 'rogue', I would be screwing myself  because its very unlikely I would get paid back.

You mention Moneybookers, but there you are trusting a corporation, which has an entirely different set of risks.  It ends up being a personal decision and I think you'll find that not everyone will agree which is safer.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
imsaguy
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October 23, 2011, 04:47:46 PM
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While I think there are some people who can be labeled "trusted traders" I would never ever put that much responsibility into 1 persons hands. 1 day he can be the most honest guy on the block, next a scamming theif.

Escrow services do exist, moneybookers has one which would be perfect for the buyer, gives you protection/charge-back options but for the seller not so much, + I think it's only 14 days maximum.

And while we're talking about trust, weren't you the one trying to buy bitcoins using certain reversible methods?  You're to be trusted but others aren't?

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
astana
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October 25, 2011, 12:55:36 PM
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And while we're talking about trust, weren't you the one trying to buy bitcoins using certain reversible methods?  You're to be trusted but others aren't?

I certainly was, still do try to buy by those methods and will keep doing so. I can trust myself to deliver 100% of time that is what I know, other people no I don't. I'm not saying no one can be trusted but you need to come up with a bit more than I'm a trusted member escrow service use me.

I know you have a good reputation, don't take offense. & OP  reply to PM's
imsaguy
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October 25, 2011, 03:37:11 PM
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And while we're talking about trust, weren't you the one trying to buy bitcoins using certain reversible methods?  You're to be trusted but others aren't?

I certainly was, still do try to buy by those methods and will keep doing so. I can trust myself to deliver 100% of time that is what I know, other people no I don't. I'm not saying no one can be trusted but you need to come up with a bit more than I'm a trusted member escrow service use me.

I know you have a good reputation, don't take offense. & OP  reply to PM's

All an escrow is is a trusted entity.  You already said I have a good reputation.  That's all I need.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
astana
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October 26, 2011, 01:35:47 AM
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And how exactly would you hold the escrow? In your own account? Do offer insurance in case the money is stolen or fraud?
imsaguy
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October 26, 2011, 02:57:40 PM
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And how exactly would you hold the escrow? In your own account? Do offer insurance in case the money is stolen or fraud?

In a seperate, special use wallet that's kept offline.  Yes, I'm insured against loss or theft for large claims.  Small claims I self insure.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
sonba
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October 31, 2011, 11:18:11 AM
 #14

HI there,

I would actually be interested in this service, provided that I trust the escrow. My personal preferences would be less an individual but more an established company within the bitcoin economy, like intersango/Bitcoin-consultancy or TradeHill.
No offense against imsaguy, but I for my side wouldn't actually trust him my money. (Note: this does NOT mean that I'm mistrusting him - I'm just saying I wouldn't trust my escrow money on him, which is a pure personal and subjective opinion as I didn't do a lot of deals with him, yet, nor did he do a lot of deals with people I fully trust).

In case you would be interested in one of the before-mentioned companies, please give me a shout - I'm more than happy to ask them.

I'D be also interested in which kind of interest rate you are looking for and how many BTC you would be interested in lending (PM welcome as well).

Cheers,

sonba
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