Source close to potential investors: 3 companies bidding on Gox

[Joohansson]

Yeah I'd pay $300M for a list of people that will soon hate me.

Facebook payed $19 billion for whatsapp users that now migrates to Telegram for better integrity 

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[jatajuta]

Also WhatsApp annual revenues are lower than Gox.

http://www.quora.com/WhatsApp-Messenger/How-much-revenue-is-WhatsApp-generating

[Jeronimus]

the problem with all the above proposals is that we do not know all the liabilities of MtGox.

What if there are hidden liabilities that would make MtGox extremely toxic to own?


Otherwise it is a simple 2 steps process

step 1 ) replace Karpeles with new CEO/s which is/are trusted by the community

step 2) get everyone who has funds stuck in MtGox to agree on taking a share of the company he will be able to trade on MtGox along with BTC when it opens up again. Those shareholders are the new owners. AGAIN __only after checking if there are other liabilities hidden behind MtGox we do not know of__


I wish it was THAT simple. However, if Karpeles did something more sinister, like create fake BTC and fake USD out of thin air by entering numbers in the MtGox server database, then this is getting too complex for me, and it will require some brainiac to unwind this and get to the most righteous solution in who gets how many shares.

Unfortunately i fear that he has done exactly this for two reasons.

Reason number one being the price of BTC has fallen down to 91.5 USD at it's low. This however makes no sense at all. Not even the stupidest of all idiots would have sold his BTC for 91.5 USD when other exchanges had it at 500-650.
I strongly believe he created fake BTC and took the price down to 91.5 USD in order to get more real BTC from people trying to buy this fake BTC at low prices in an attempt to profit from the sharp up and down, multiplying it and then reselling it to others attempting the same. A ponzi which just bursted when gox closed shop.


Reason number two is this strange comment

Karpeles says that any Bitcoin he personally owns was on Mt. Gox, meaning he will lose money if the exchange fails. In response to a question about how much he personally stands to lose, Karpeles writes, “well, technically speaking it's not 'lost' just yet, just temporarily unavailable.”

how can bitcoin he owns and which is on the exchange not be accessible to him? How can it be temporarily unavailable? He should have the private keys to those bitcoins if it was real BTC.

This to me means that the BTC is NOT real, but fake. Just numbers in the MtGox database. I already wrote a full article about this earlier.



I hope strongly that i am completely off and it really is just an easy 2 steps process to restore gox and give those with funds stuck something in return they can hope on profiting of in the future. But PLEASE make sure you examined MtGox from all sides before deciding to become owners of this potentially HIGHLY toxic business which might lead you into bankruptcy....

[T.Stuart]

the problem with all the above proposals is that we do not know all the liabilities of MtGox.

What if there are hidden liabilities that would make MtGox extremely toxic to own?

But it can't really be much worse than what is being said already: that they have almost zero of all funds held by customers! 

So it's a start-from-scratch scenario.

Those who want in for the long - terms have shares equivalent to their holdings. Effectively they get nothing back now.

Those who want out take an almighty haircut - I'm thinking somewhere between grade 2-4 with the clippers. It's the only way to split the remaining funds up evenly.

[gog1]

I think an external buyout is a pipe dream, gox has its own legal issue before this fiasco

BTC China show us how a platform can 'decline' (or lose its spot) relatively quickly in this market.

[Jeronimus]

But it can't really be much worse than what is being said already: that they have almost zero of all funds held by customers! 

It CAN be much worse. liabilities are not just what they owe to the customers. Plus, how do you know if he did not lie about how many customers are out there he owes how many USD/BTC to?

What if he just created a few billions fake BTC and passed them onto him as the owner. His personal bitcoins stored on MtGox. What if he sold those in return for real USD? What if he also created fake USD and sold those for real BTC? It gets so mind boggling i cannot even think it out.

You have to be VERY careful with this rat. This is not someone who was out just for the money, but a paid BTC assassin by someone high up....

The truth could be way way more complex than we like it...

[T.Stuart]

But it can't really be much worse than what is being said already: that they have almost zero of all funds held by customers!  

It CAN be much worse. liabilities are not just what they owe to the customers. Plus, how do you know if he did not lie about how many customers are out there he owes how many USD/BTC to?

What if he just created a few billions fake BTC and passed them onto him as the owner. His personal bitcoins stored on MtGox. What if he sold those in return for real USD? What if he also created fake USD and sold those for real BTC? It gets so mind boggling i cannot even think it out.

You have to be VERY careful with this rat. This is not someone who was out just for the money, but a paid BTC assassin by someone high up....

The truth could be way way more complex than we like it...

No I still don't think it can be much worse than what is being said: everything that the books say the customers have in their accounts is owed without any funds to pay. This is the rock bottom scenario, and it makes the most sense looking at what is going on.

It is likely that Karpeles has known about this for a long time but has been paralyzed by a mix of stupidity, laziness and fear. I think it will come to light that he faked BTC balances for his accountants.

Whether or not he embezzled funds also remains to be seen.

Of course it is possible that the company also owes massive, hitherto undiscovered debts - to Starbucks for example. But the scenario we are being presented with today already takes into account your idea of creating BTC balances out of thin air. That is what is being insinuated already.

[Jeronimus]

But it can't really be much worse than what is being said already: that they have almost zero of all funds held by customers!  

It CAN be much worse. liabilities are not just what they owe to the customers. Plus, how do you know if he did not lie about how many customers are out there he owes how many USD/BTC to?

What if he just created a few billions fake BTC and passed them onto him as the owner. His personal bitcoins stored on MtGox. What if he sold those in return for real USD? What if he also created fake USD and sold those for real BTC? It gets so mind boggling i cannot even think it out.

You have to be VERY careful with this rat. This is not someone who was out just for the money, but a paid BTC assassin by someone high up....

The truth could be way way more complex than we like it...

No I still don't think it can be much worse than what is being said: everything that the books say the customers have in their accounts is owed without any funds to pay. This is the rock bottom scenario, and it makes the most sense looking at what is going on.

It is likely that Karpeles has known about this for a long time but has been paralyzed by a mix of stupidity, laziness and fear. I think it will come to light that he faked BTC balances for his accountants.

Whether or not he embezzled funds also remains to be seen.

Of course it is possible that the company also owes massive, hitherto undiscovered debts - to Starbucks for example. But the scenario we are being presented with today already takes into account your idea of creating BTC balances out of thin air. That is what is being insinuated already.

I am no expert in this just have a natural tendency to be paranoid.... So let me ask you this question. How do you find out ALL the liabilities a company has if the company itself has tampered with the books?

Is there a source where you can look up all liabilities a company has that is __100%__ accurate and would cover you legally under any circumstances?

[Jeronimus]

To make myself clear. I do not think Karpeles only created BTC out of thin air for the _supposed_ BTC he lost to _supposed_ scammers.

I believe he created WAY WAY more goxBTC out of thin air than most would dare to think. Pushing the price that low, some of the users now might own incredible amount of fake goxBTC far above the 750k he mentions. Same goes for the USD part.

In such a case, you cannot simply trust their books. But who can you trust then? Taking the company just to find out you owe 1 billion BTC later and who knows how much USD will NOT be fun...

[T.Stuart]

To make myself clear. I do not think Karpeles only created BTC out of thin air for the _supposed_ BTC he lost to _supposed_ scammers.

I believe he created WAY WAY more goxBTC out of thin air than most would dare to think. Pushing the price that low, some of the users now might own incredible amount of fake goxBTC far above the 750k he mentions. Same goes for the USD part.

In such a case, you cannot simply trust their books. But who can you trust then? Taking the company just to find out you owe 1 billion BTC later and who knows how much USD will NOT be fun...

Well I suppose it could be that there was no leak of coins - they had all been withdrawn correctly - and that you are right in the sense that he created fake BTC over and above the number of coins in existence (and not only that he had an IOU for a real BTC on his books when that real BTC had been stolen).

That - the idea that in the end in fact he was running a true BTC ponzi - would be a huge relief to those who rue the fact that 6% of the BTC in circulation have become black market coins.

[Aditya]

Come on get real. Do you know how many huge brands shit all over their customer base day in, day out, but people still use them, return to them, and recommend them.

They'd be buying the brand; and the media attention, the existing customer base, the reputation as one of the oldest and largest Bitcoin exchanges. Hell, the media seem to be even getting confused between Gox and Bitcoin itself. In a billion dollar industry (with huge potential for growth) $300M isn't that much money to some people. Being under new management would legitimise it; if Mark leaves the picture.

I'm not saying anyone will necessarily get their money or BTC back; just that an acquisition isn't that unrealistic despite Gox's current reputation and debt.

Yeah, Silk Road prove that. They get busted, Bitcoin seized. People still using Silk Road 2. Even Silk Road 2 get hacked, I believe people will continue to use Silk Road 3.

[dafqok]

Paul Buitink seeds more rumors: Additional info: the 3 companies bidding on Gox are well-known in the #bitcoin industry. Hope the community can solve the Gox problem asap.

https://twitter.com/paulbuitink/status/438681699753271296

[BitCoinNutJob]

would be nice to hear from another source also

[T.Stuart]

would be nice to hear from another source also

I agree - just saying "three big companies" was exciting yesterday - but its yesterday's news! Give us something more now.

EDIT: oh yeah, and the other source! 

[bitcoinminer]

MtGox claims 1M users.  Lets pretend they are all 100% legit, fully verified, no throw aways or duplicates.  Lets also pretend 100% of them may use MtGox in the future.  That would be $300 per user which is an asinine valuation.  Cheaper to let MtGox die in bankruptcy and buy the customer list from the trustee.  Still I guess anything is possible.  Some people have deep pockets and a phobia of just holding their coins.

I agree in principle but not in principal

They will do it with OPM or a stock offering so they'll get it for free.

Here's how the negotiations are going to go:

"We'll give you nothing and take on the debt"
Mark says "But I need money to feed my cat!"
"OK, we'll give you nothing plus a million bucks to skip town"
Mark says "But I gained 30 kilos!"
"OK we'll give you nothing plus 2 million bucks to skip town"
DEAL!

Then they go to GOX.COM, spin off Tibane into oblivion, and take the customer list, so they don't have to hold the $367 million in the red balance sheet, and say "Sorry, any issues with Mt. Gox should be brought up with the old ownership... we had nothing to do with that"...

...and one last time, everyone gets GOXXXED for old time's sake.

[CompNsci]

Then they go to GOX.COM, spin off Tibane into oblivion, and take the customer list, so they don't have to hold the $367 million in the red balance sheet, and say "Sorry, any issues with Mt. Gox should be brought up with the old ownership... we had nothing to do with that"...

...and one last time, everyone gets GOXXXED for old time's sake.

This is why the involuntary bankruptcy proceeding is needed.