Bitcoin Forum
September 18, 2018, 02:47:03 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.16.2  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Why locking threads which are actually helpful?  (Read 481 times)
Silent26
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 296


Politeness: 1226: - 0 / - 1


View Profile
August 13, 2018, 10:30:32 AM
Merited by suchmoon (7), bones261 (2), finaleshot2016 (1), Coin-1 (1), Squishy01 (1)
 #1

I just noticed some different behavior in our local board lately (Philippine Local Board) and I need some clarification from Mods why is this happening. Recently, I've read some discussions in my local board saying that "why some of our threads in there are getting locked?", it made me think that, "Yeah why?" . There are several good discussions there and helpful threads that supposed to be open and pinned but they are already locked now and being buried by other nonsense topics.

These are my fellow member's conversation that they also noticed this different behaviour from our local.
As a relatively new member, I have also wondered why some posts that are indeed helpful get locked-- even though I don't really see a reason why. However, the moderators may have their own reasons, but still, I find it weird all the same.
~snip

See, even a Jr. member notice this activity in our local. Thanks for being observant and I hope that all of the members should also observe what's happening in here. ~snip
Hmm, I also noticed this kind of activity in our local section especially some post from theyoungmillionaire, CatchSomeAirdrops, Thirio, yazher and you have been locked causing it to be found in the middle page of our section thus making it hard to find and read. Every day there are lots of new registrants of members here and they tend to ask a question which has been answered a million times, we cannot spoonfeed all the answers they want, that is why it is better to leave all the useful posts open from replies to make it appear always in the 1st - 2nd pages of the local section. Here are some suggestions that might work.
~snip

I don't know who's responsible for this, is it our Local Board Mods? But the question is why locking helpful and good threads? While there are lot of nonsense topics that still open right now. The question is why?

Please @theymos, our local board need some changes and some help. We are already lacking of Merit sources and locking these good threads will be just an additional problem. It is Filipinos long problem there, but no one has the guts to open a discussion here about what is really happening in our local board because they're probably afraid. Well, about our local board's Merit Source, @cwrth is the only member who is capable for the responsibility for now.

theyoungmillionaire is one of the top Merited member from our local board and he/she has contributed a lot in our local, also known as the "Silent Hero" because he/she encouraged and motivated other members to make quality posts using his/her inspiring threads but why even those threads are locked? 2 of the helpful topics I'm talking about are theyoungmillionaire and Thirio's thread and 1 from finaleshot2016 and edsnowangel.

Here are the locked threads and it's up to you to judge whether it's really helpful or not. Take note that these are written in "Tagalog". These are just simple threads but they contains a lot of good information and the discussions are also pretty well. I vote to keep these threads open and pinned Smiley


Locking these threads is also one reason why some of our local board's members missed to read those helpful guidelines. Yeah, our local board already provided all the guides that may help and enlighten our citizens but since they are locked and buried with a lot of trash discussions, it's kinda useless now.

Just check this guy who recently posted in our local board. He/she just realised that there are good discussions and helpful threads in our local, it only means other member didn't know that these threads exist, it's because it is covered with too many trash discussions.

My Mistakes:
1. I didn't know that we have a great topics here at our Local forum na ngayon ko lang na discover at nabasa.
[Filipino Guide] Ang Bitcointalk Merit System
Paano makakaiwas sa SCAM 🔥🔥 WORTH READING 🔥🔥
TOP 5 NA DAPAT IWASAN [Newbies must read it]

There is a possibility that other members might create a new thread about the same topic of these locked threads (which will become a spam), since they're locked and cannot be bumped or not pinned, some members doesn't really have an idea that such threads are existing in our local board.
There's no doubt that soon or later, all remaining good threads in our local will also going to be locked.

I will be expecting answers from anyone especially from Mods and Admin if possible Smiley We really need some changes and help.



       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
1537282023
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537282023

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537282023
Reply with quote  #2

1537282023
Report to moderator
1537282023
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537282023

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537282023
Reply with quote  #2

1537282023
Report to moderator
Einax Airdrops and Bounties made easy! List your ERC-20 token
FREE
ETH markets launching soon!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1537282023
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537282023

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537282023
Reply with quote  #2

1537282023
Report to moderator
1537282023
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537282023

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537282023
Reply with quote  #2

1537282023
Report to moderator
1537282023
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537282023

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537282023
Reply with quote  #2

1537282023
Report to moderator
Squishy01
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84
Merit: 16


View Profile
August 13, 2018, 12:23:01 PM
 #2

Thank you for this! Finally, a member of our local community pointed this problem out, and I'm quite honored one of my replies to a conversation regarding this matter was used as evidence.

I've been active in the forum for only about a month now, and it is indeed true that this is one problem I see in our forum. The locked threads you mentioned contained some of the threads I was referring to, although all of these are worthy of being mentioned all the same. These threads helped me when I was a new member of this forum (and still does), and I hope that it helps others too--that can only be done if this problem is resolved.

jacee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204
Merit: 1021


View Profile WWW
August 13, 2018, 01:54:07 PM
 #3

I think that those threads were locked because technically they are not about Bitcoin.
Dabs pinned this thread on local: Non Bitcoin Posts/Threads will be Deleted.

These threads are all about the forum and merits.

Quote

If I understand what Dabs meant by that thread correctly, then those threads you mentioned are actually off topic.

I do agree tho that the threads were helpful specially to newbies in our local that are looking for a clear guide on how things are supposed to be done in this forum.

\Maybe we can keep these threads open if there will be a sub section on our local where we can discuss forum matters?
harizen
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1044


View Profile
August 13, 2018, 02:59:43 PM
 #4

I think that those threads were locked because technically they are not about Bitcoin.
Dabs pinned this thread on local: Non Bitcoin Posts/Threads will be Deleted.

These threads are all about the forum and merits.

Quote

If I understand what Dabs meant by that thread correctly, then those threads you mentioned are actually off topic.

I do agree tho that the threads were helpful specially to newbies in our local that are looking for a clear guide on how things are supposed to be done in this forum.
Maybe we can keep these threads open if there will be a sub section on our local where we can discuss forum matters?

Even I l ike to agree that those mentioned threads are off topic (although I don't), why still those non sense topics remained opened in the section?

Id rather see those mentioned threads opened and those non sense topics (e.g listed below) to be locked.

EPIC MOMENTS
Mga linya ng mga Pilipino tungkol sa bitcoin
Sana mabago ng crypto buhay ko XD
Bitcoin 2017

..and many threads that just recently made.

sheenshane
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 131


yahoo62278 "campaign management services"


View Profile
August 13, 2018, 03:13:42 PM
 #5

I think that those threads were locked because technically they are not about Bitcoin.
Dabs pinned this thread on local: Non Bitcoin Posts/Threads will be Deleted.
I really appreciated all post of theyoungmillionaire in our forum there's a lot of ideas and sharing guidelines especially to the newbies on our local board. All of these post I was learned a lot about the forum policies regarding merit system.
BUT, Dabs was pinned a post that I quoted above that these are Non-bitcoin related probably that's the reason why mate mods locked those useful threads and as what jacee stated above that all of these posts were not related on bitcoin topic.

Well, I keep my eyes open on this thread since I am a member on this local board and let's wait for other staff here replies.

Edited:

Even I l ike to agree that those mentioned threads are off topic (although I don't), why still those non sense topics remained opened in the section?

Id rather see those mentioned threads opened and those non sense topics (e.g listed below) to be locked.

EPIC MOMENTS
Mga linya ng mga Pilipino tungkol sa bitcoin
Sana mabago ng crypto buhay ko XD
Bitcoin 2017

..and many threads that just recently made.
Yes, it's must be deleted too and to be fair IF that is not bitcoin topic related.

How many weeks I did not visit on this Filipino local board, sad to say that, a good topic created by these good posters was locked by mods.

Strufmbae
Member
**
Online Online

Activity: 140
Merit: 15

Hire me as your assistant with low pay


View Profile
August 13, 2018, 03:29:32 PM
 #6

I don't know what to say about this because i am not in a position to make an evaluation to this situation.  

So in my own opinion.

Philippine Local board needs that kind of thread wherein newcomers and even old members can gain knowledge from those topic. meanwhile, there are also threads that has nonsense and redundant replies which is needed to be locked or be deleted.

Like examples above.

The good thing is it can be read  by other filipino members, but, suggestions,opinions and questions are not allowed anymore since it is locked.

However, moderator(s) has the right to lock any thread if it is needed because they are hired, to do that job, with an explainable reason.

Again this is only my own opinion.

P. S.
Watching this thread



Silent26
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 296


Politeness: 1226: - 0 / - 1


View Profile
August 14, 2018, 12:03:54 AM
 #7

I think that those threads were locked because technically they are not about Bitcoin.
I agree to @harizen, that's one of my reasons why I made this thread. It's to have some clarifications Smiley
It's true that it's off-topic or not related to Bitcoin but those are good threads and supposed to have on going discussions. If the case is "All off-topic must be lock" then it's too unfair that there are still too many nonsense topics that are still open.

Keeping spam discussions open than those threads I mentioned is totally unfair. I want a simple explanation why Smiley

Quote

\Maybe we can keep these threads open if there will be a sub section on our local where we can discuss forum matters?
Implementing a new sub-section in our local board for these threads is a good idea but is a lot of work than to just open those helpful threads which will only have the same result IMHO.

Edit.
Those are a lot of good threads, any Merit Source applicant for Philippines will use it for sure as they are good enough to fit the requirements. Just four more good topics and anyone might think that I'm applying for Merit Source.


       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
crwth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 306


★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!


View Profile
August 14, 2018, 02:24:39 AM
 #8

I have noticed this activity on our local board, and since I can't post about it in the thread, it is good that I have read and seen this post. The posts that you included are definitely helpful threads that could initiate more discussion about it, and it cannot be continued because it's locked.

In my opinion, it would be helpful to request a sub-section. I had a talk with rickbig41 in the forum, if our local board has a lot more threads about a specific thing, whether it is about Trading, Marketplace, etc. It could opt for request of another subsection, which I think would help the local board with other topics.

~snip
Well we could see once it started diba? We can't still say until may nangyayari na sa market place. I checked different local threads that are into market place like in India. It's full of services too, like sa global marketplace sa forum. For me it could increase trust and economy with bitcoin here in the Philippines. Opinyon ko lang naman ito, willing naman gawin ang mga bagay bagay para ito ay maging totoo. It would be nice to support this.

Yup, but still, it's easier to request a new section kung ang mga threads na naipopost dito ay all about services, but and sell, etc ay siya nang naging dominant, just like nung nag request tayo ng altcoin section...



Thanks, Silent26 for including me in your post, hopefully, I would be accepted as a Merit Source.



BITVEST DICE
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████▀▀██████████
█████████░░░░█████████
██████████▄▄██████████
███████▀▀████▀▀███████
██████░░░░██░░░░██████
███████▄▄████▄▄███████
████▀▀████▀▀████▀▀████
███░░░░██░░░░██░░░░███
████▄▄████▄▄████▄▄████
██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████▀▀█▀▀▀▀▀▀██▀▀████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄███
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░▄████
█████░░▄███▄░░░░██████
█████▄▄███▀░░░░▄██████
█████████░░░░░░███████
████████░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░███████
███████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████
██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
███████████▀▀▄▄█░░░░░█
█████████▀░░█████░░░░█
███████▀░░░░░████▀░░░▀
██████░░░░░░░░▀▄▄█████
█████░▄░░░░░▄██████▀▀█
████░████▄░███████░░░░
███░█████░█████████░░█
███░░░▀█░██████████░░█
███░░░░░░████▀▀██▀░░░░
███░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░
▀██░▄▄▄▄░████▄▄██▄░░░░
▄████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄
█████████████░█▀▀▀█░███
██████████▀▀░█▀░░░▀█░▀▀
███████▀░▄▄█░█░░░░░█░█▄
████▀░▄▄████░▀█░░░█▀░██
███░▄████▀▀░▄░▀█░█▀░▄░▀
█▀░███▀▀▀░░███░▀█▀░███░
▀░███▀░░░░░████▄░▄████░
░███▀░░░░░░░█████████░░
░███░░░░░░░░░███████░░░
███▀░██░░░░░░▀░▄▄▄░▀░░░
███░██████▄▄░▄█████▄░▄▄
▀██░████████░███████░█▀
▄████████████████████▄
████████▀▀░░░▀▀███████
███▀▀░░░░░▄▄▄░░░░▀▀▀██
██░▀▀▄▄░░░▀▀▀░░░▄▄▀▀██
██░▄▄░░▀▀▄▄░▄▄▀▀░░░░██
██░▀▀░░░░░░█░░░░░██░██
██░░░▄▄░░░░█░██░░░░░██
██░░░▀▀░░░░█░░░░░░░░██
██░░░░░▄▄░░█░░░░░██░██
██▄░░░░▀▀░░█░██░░░░░██
█████▄▄░░░░█░░░░▄▄████
█████████▄▄█▄▄████████
▀████████████████████▀




Rainbot
Daily Quests
Faucet
nngella
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 30


View Profile
August 14, 2018, 02:27:20 AM
 #9

I also observed this one.  
Aside from locking useful and beneficial threads, the moderator on the local board [Philippines] also delete some helpful posts for the growth of the community (most of these posts are regarding the forum and not about bitcoin).

And with regards to the off-topic posts, local board [Philippines] does not have any sub-section hence there is no rule that forbids people from posting altcoins related posts, posts about the forum (usually found in Meta), and any other posts not related to Bitcoin.

[ PAYPERBLOCK ] NEW ERA OF FREELANCING POWERED BY BLOCKCHAIN  🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐
🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐  [ ANN ] [ Website ] [ WP ] [ Telegram ] [ Twitter ] [ Facebook ] [ YouTube ] [ Linkedin ]

Quote
[ PAYPERBLOCK ] NEW ERA OF FREELANCING POWERED BY BLOCKCHAIN  🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐
🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐🌐  [ ANN ] [ Website ] [ WP ] [ Telegram ] [ Twitter ] [ Facebook ] [ YouTube ] [ Linkedin ]
Full Member:

Code:
[ PAYPERBLOCK ] NEW ERA OF FREELANCING POWERED BY BLOCKCHAIN  ███████████████████
████████████  [ ANN ] [ Website ] [ WP ] [ Telegram ] [ Twitter ] [ Facebook ] [ YouTube ] [ Linkedin ]

Quote
[ PAYPERBLOCK ] NEW ERA OF FREELANCING POWERED BY BLOCKCHAIN  ███████████████████
████████████  [ ANN ] [ Website ] [ WP ] [ Telegram ] [ Twitter ] [ Facebook ] [ YouTube ] [ Linkedin ]
Sr.Member:

Code:
[table
joniboini
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 555


Indonesia Patrol Squad #1


View Profile WWW
August 14, 2018, 04:41:24 AM
Merited by jacee (1)
 #10

I've checked your Local Board and I realize there is no index thread for "good topics" (or did I miss it?). I think creating an index will be useful to make sure Philippines members can still access it or know that such threads exist, just like what we have in Indonesian board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2979183.0). Every member can suggest which thread should be added to that list, and the OP (probably mod?) can add it to the list. Mod can pin this index thread so it will stay in the first page.

--EDIT--

As for this rule (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2006619.0), I think Philippines members should discuss it further with their mods. I think the main sub-board should not be exclusively about Bitcoin, finance or crypto, but also include anything related to this forums. Because it doesn't make sense to me when you are not allowed to post and discuss this forum in general (anything about merits, a guide to get merits and etc, especially if you don't understand English) in your own local board. I believe this is the reason why the Local board is created.

But of course, the Philippines community & mod should decide it by themselves.


       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
Maus0728
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 39

Can't catch the M4u5


View Profile
August 14, 2018, 07:02:44 AM
Merited by Silent26 (2)
 #11

And with regards to the off-topic posts, local board [Philippines] does not have any sub-section hence there is no rule that forbids people from posting altcoins related posts, posts about the forum (usually found in Meta), and any other posts not related to Bitcoin.
They are not off-topic. These locked posts are all about for the betterment of the forum, history/ people behind cryptocurrency, reminders etc. What are the factors that makes these post considered as off-topic? Roll Eyes
Maybe we can keep these threads open if there will be a sub section on our local where we can discuss forum matters?
I think our local section itself is enough since there is a Marketplace and Beginners and Help outside our local section. The only thing this we need to do for them is to help them understand what is really happening in the forum in the language they can also understand, this is also to avoid spamming/ posting in some serious sections in which they can't fully understand. It will just be another workload for our mods.
I think the main sub-board should not be exclusively about Bitcoin, finance or crypto, but also include anything related to this forums. Because it doesn't make sense to me when you are not allowed to post and discuss this forum in general (anything about merits, a guide to get merits and etc, especially if you don't understand English) in your own local board. I believe this is the reason why the Local board is created.
I absolutely agree with this. Not every Filipino have the capability of understanding a different language especially English because most of them have a language barrier. Sometimes I think that it is better to not create a new topic with such quality because I am expecting that it will be locked later on.

As I have observed in our local forum, low- rank members are now posting senseful contents which I think that they have been inspired by theyoungmillionaire, Silent26 (you), finaleshot because of their posting strategy. In effect, many quality posters are now making their move to initiate progress and to maintain the quality of the forum. But sadly, locking useful topics creates a neverending spoonfeeding among new members.

[Suggestion]
What if instead of locking a thread utilizing self-moderated topic is a very useful one. So that the OP will choose which replies that needs to be deleted, we can also reduce the spam posts. Less work for mods.

I've checked your Local Board and I realize there is no index thread for "good topics" (or did I miss it?). I think creating an index will be useful to make sure Philippines members can still access it or know that such threads exist, just like what we have in Indonesian board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2979183.0). Every member can suggest which thread should be added to that list, and the OP (probably mod?) can add it to the list. Mod can pin this index thread so it will stay in the first page.
Are you saying that this is a master list of all topics which are really useful? This is a good suggestion but it will need a lot of agreement in order to consider creating this topic. Do you have a mandate from mods before you created this topic?

Just four more good topics and anyone might think that I'm applying for Merit Source.
Good luck along with crwth. Smiley
joniboini
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 555


Indonesia Patrol Squad #1


View Profile WWW
August 14, 2018, 07:25:03 AM
 #12

I've checked your Local Board and I realize there is no index thread for "good topics" (or did I miss it?). I think creating an index will be useful to make sure Philippines members can still access it or know that such threads exist, just like what we have in Indonesian board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2979183.0). Every member can suggest which thread should be added to that list, and the OP (probably mod?) can add it to the list. Mod can pin this index thread so it will stay in the first page.
Are you saying that this is a master list of all topics which are really useful? This is a good suggestion but it will need a lot of agreement in order to consider creating this topic. Do you have a mandate from mods before you created this topic?

Yes, something like that. In my case, I've discussed it before with the moderator of my local sub (dbshck & sapta) and they agree with it. I become the one who maintain it up to this day with the help of my fellow Indonesian who cares about the forum.


       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
edwardceng
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 42


View Profile
August 14, 2018, 07:40:04 AM
 #13

@joniboini

In the local board, Indonesian has a topic pinned about questions/answers/ topics around bounty. I read the purpose of that an issue to classify all posts about Bounty on one subject and when there were members who posted about the bounty other than in that a topic1, each member reminded them to write it there1, and their moderator deleted the OP who wrote about the bounty outside that topic1.

Is my analysis correct?

1. [Q&A][TIPS] Tanya Jawab Seputar Bounty Di Sini

1993jochico
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 224
Merit: 46


View Profile
August 14, 2018, 07:54:06 AM
 #14

I notice it too, because long time ago I posted some threads on our local section Philippine's of some helpful tips for newbie and other fellow filipino member's that can help them grow a good part or member of this forum but after an hour my post always got deleted. I think I tried 3 different helpful topic's and it is always deleted.

I didnt complain and I also dont bother my self to post again on our local section.

I think that those threads were locked because technically they are not about Bitcoin.
Dabs pinned this thread on local: Non Bitcoin Posts/Threads will be Deleted.

These threads are all about the forum and merits.
I understand this but I think if its good for the forum it must be considered by the moderator.
Silent26
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 296


Politeness: 1226: - 0 / - 1


View Profile
August 14, 2018, 08:50:07 AM
 #15

As for this rule (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2006619.0), I think Philippines members should discuss it further with their mods. I think the main sub-board should not be exclusively about Bitcoin, finance or crypto, but also include anything related to this forums. Because it doesn't make sense to me when you are not allowed to post and discuss this forum in general (anything about merits, a guide to get merits and etc, especially if you don't understand English) in your own local board. I believe this is the reason why the Local board is created.

But of course, the Philippines community & mod should decide it by themselves.
Indeed. Local boards should not only discuss topics related to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies etc. Other important general discussion must be considered too as our community (local board) also needs it.
I believe that every local board was made to discuss topics regarding Bitcoin and other discussions about the forum using their native language. I'm just concerned in our local board where good discussions about the Forum are getting locked just because it's not a Crypto related topic.

@joniboini, I like the way how those guides etc. in your local board are being kept as all of them are compiled in one thread and pinned. The only reason why I ask for those threads to be open is because they're not either pinned so how can our fellow citizens be able to read it? Somehow, Yes, of course they still can but it's only if they will visit about page 2, 3 or 4 of our local board where those threads will be located which supposed to be in the first page of it.


       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
joniboini
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 555


Indonesia Patrol Squad #1


View Profile WWW
August 14, 2018, 09:57:36 AM
 #16

@joniboini

In the local board, Indonesian has a topic pinned about questions/answers/ topics around bounty. I read the purpose of that an issue to classify all posts about Bounty on one subject and when there were members who posted about the bounty other than in that a topic1, each member reminded them to write it there1, and their moderator deleted the OP who wrote about the bounty outside that topic1.

Is my analysis correct?

1. [Q&A][TIPS] Tanya Jawab Seputar Bounty Di Sini

Correct.

There is a lot of useful thread got pinned and indexed in our local board. For example, there is a Q&A thread about mining, we also have a "hall of shame" translator thread to make sure everybody who uses Google Translate or badly translate an ANN / whitepaper etc got documented. We also adopt iasenko & LoyceV Spam buster club to make our own Indonesia Patrol Squad in order to help the mods keep our sub clean.



       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
hilariousetc
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 980
Merit: 1299


Bountyhive.io - Connecting ICOs & Bounty Hunters


View Profile
August 14, 2018, 10:00:26 AM
 #17

Threads are locked for a variety of reasons: duplicates, served their purpose, turning into spam megathreads etc, but staff can't win. We leave threads open and people complain asking why they're still allowed to be spammed in and haven't been locked or trashed yet. We lock them and people still complain. Can't have it both ways.

If you want to get an answer as to why a specific thread was locked then contact your local mods. If you make your case they might reopen them but at least you can get an answer as to why they were locked in the first place. They're usually done so for one of the reasons listed above though.

finaleshot2016
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 256


🇵🇭 Spectator


View Profile WWW
August 14, 2018, 01:07:28 PM
 #18

First of all, I really hate the fact that there are some of us didn't understand the point of the topic 'cause they aren't really visiting the local to know what's the real situation.  Huh Shocked

The thing that I understand about "off topics" is like discussing some non-related crypto topics, social media news, referrals, Nation's issue, and other stuffs. Does the betterment of the local affects the way we treat bitcoin? Absolutely yes! People are just spammin' around, "value of bitcoin" "Is bitcoin illegal?", some of it are just common topics that can be found and read in the Bitcoin Discussion. So is it really okay to spam the Bitcoin Discussion and our Local Board? Definitely not. Our posts is for the good and development of each so it'll be a path for those who want to have a lot of knowledge about crypto, It's a disciplinary actions.  

.....
Quote

I think creating an index will be useful to make sure Philippines members can still access it or know that such threads exist, just like what we have in Indonesian board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2979183.0). Every member can suggest which thread should be added to that list, and the OP (probably mod?) can add it to the list. Mod can pin this index thread so it will stay in the first page.

I hope we have those categories to avoid those non-sense topics that is already been tackled a million of times (lmao).

While checking some of our pinned topics,
Hello Newbie here po,tanong ko lang po ano po yung merit na nakikita ko sa ibang mga accounts nila?paano po yun nakukuha?Salamat po sa sasagot.

"Hello newbie here, I just want to ask, what is the merits that i see on some accounts? How can I earn it? Thanks for those who will answer"

You will notice the cycle, user always ask about the merit system, if the topic was opened he/she can read it on the first page.

I think Philippines members should discuss it further with their mods.
.....
But of course, the Philippines community & mod should decide it by themselves.

Well, We should open this situation on our local to discuss with our mods about the current issue. The best solution to this is to help each other for the advancement of Filipinos to become a strong community right? so we, members of the community also need answers to this case.

Even I l ike to agree that those mentioned threads are off topic (although I don't), why still those non sense topics remained opened in the section?

You must "report to mods" it first before it'll become deleted and might get a bad report sometimes while some of the helpful topics are not being reported but being locked.

I think that those threads were locked because technically they are not about Bitcoin.
Dabs pinned this thread on local: Non Bitcoin Posts/Threads will be Deleted.

These threads are all about the forum and merits.

So bitcointalk forum related topic and for the betterment of newbies are not about bitcoin?  Huh As I said earlier, it can be a disciplinary action for those who don't abide by rules and regulations. Educated person doesn't mean you're full of knowledge, they have the good characteristics to learn something deep and also the ability to maintain and develop your learning with discipline.



The reason why my strategy is posting about some facts/tips and tutorials is to inspire those newbies in our local and especially to those persons who didn't bother to look some information at Meta. It's really unfair to see some off-topic posts that hasn't been locked until now. Also, many of the members who also see our content admits that it's informative and helpful for someone new like them.  




       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
jacee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204
Merit: 1021


View Profile WWW
August 14, 2018, 03:57:33 PM
 #19

First of all, I really hate the fact that there are some of us didn't understand the point of the topic 'cause they aren't really visiting the local to know what's the real situation.  Huh Shocked

The thing that I understand about "off topics" is like discussing some non-related crypto topics, social media news, referrals, Nation's issue, and other stuffs. Does the betterment of the local affects the way we treat bitcoin? Absolutely yes! People are just spammin' around, "value of bitcoin" "Is bitcoin illegal?", some of it are just common topics that can be found and read in the Bitcoin Discussion. So is it really okay to spam the Bitcoin Discussion and our Local Board? Definitely not. Our posts is for the good and development of each so it'll be a path for those who want to have a lot of knowledge about crypto, It's a disciplinary actions.  


I do understand. Cheesy And I am always in our local. Not posting, just lurking.
I've only come to the judgement that it may have been off topic because of the pinned post from dabs.

Let's just wait for the response from our local mods. I'm sure they have their reason.
If you ask me, I also don't want the threads locked. It's informative and can create an actual good conversations.

PS: I have those "spam" threads on ignore.

Hello Newbie here po,tanong ko lang po ano po yung merit na nakikita ko sa ibang mga accounts nila?paano po yun nakukuha?Salamat po sa sasagot.

"Hello newbie here, I just want to ask, what is the merits that i see on some accounts? How can I earn it? Thanks for those who will answer"

You will notice the cycle, user always ask about the merit system, if the topic was opened he/she can read it on the first page.


We don't have to answer them. If you see threads/posts like this, hit report. Don't give attention to it and these people should stop asking for something they can easily find the answer to their questions if they know how to look.

Sir rickbig41 said
Quote
*This place is not a place to earn, this place is for learning, you may earn in signature campaigns/bounties, but it should not be your priority.

*Stop complaining and whining why the threads are difficult, these are not meant to be answered but to be read. You are not obligated to answer and it is not your duty to reply, It's not a survey.
referrence: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2412546.msg24670753#msg24670753


So bitcointalk forum related topic and for the betterment of newbies are not about bitcoin?
Technically speaking yes. People are asking about merits to rank up and to be able to participate in high paying bounty campaigns.
They ask so they can earn. Not beacuse they want to learn what bitcoin is.
If a newbie repeatedly asks what merit is, as an act of goodness send them a pm and you can link them the thread where they can find the answer and ask them to delete their thread/post or report the post so it can be deleted.


The reason why my strategy is posting about some facts/tips and tutorials is to inspire those newbies in our local and especially to those persons who didn't bother to look some information at Meta. It's really unfair to see some off-topic posts that hasn't been locked until now. Also, many of the members who also see our content admits that it's informative and helpful for someone new like them.  

Look I don't have anything against the threads that were locked. I actually respect you people for giving the time to create these threads that helps the new members on our local.
I've also been sending merits to some threads that I find actually useful/informative.

I've only said my opinion and that might not be the reason why Dabs and rickbig41 locked those threads in the first place.

I've suggested a sub-section like a local meta to discuss forum matters like merits and etc but joniboni suggested a better option to just gather the informative threads and have them in a list that is pinned so people can read it anytime.
Maybe it can be included in rickbig41s' thread here: To all newbies, feeling newbie read this before opening a new thread
finaleshot2016
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 256


🇵🇭 Spectator


View Profile WWW
August 14, 2018, 04:38:01 PM
 #20

So bitcointalk forum related topic and for the betterment of newbies are not about bitcoin?
Technically speaking yes. People are asking about merits to rank up and to be able to participate in high paying bounty campaigns.
They ask so they can earn. Not beacuse they want to learn what bitcoin is.
If a newbie repeatedly asks what merit is, as an act of goodness send them a pm and you can link them the thread where they can find the answer and ask them to delete their thread/post or report the post so it can be deleted.

Well, even though I'm not hoping that they will become the life blood of the forum, there are some points that @Jet Cash is right. We're jumping into conclusions that those members will just ask merits for their own desires. It's generation by generation, not all will be a bounty hunter and a shitposter forever, everyone can change once they realized what's the true purpose of having discussions and analysis in this forum.

The new members are the life blood of the forum ( well the few good ones anywy). If they aren't encouraged and helped, then the forum will sink further into the cesspit, as the established members move on to new pastures. This is why I believe that a clean and well moderated board for new members is so important for the forum.

After all, a newbie will absolutely ask on how/what they will do unless you're a perfect one or gifted with talents about the process and systems circulating inside. I'm just pointing out that they always ask because there is no thread about the merits (because it's locked, can't be seen in the first page), or maybe they don't know where can he/she find the answers, it's a newbie, what do we expect? maybe it's her/his first time in a forum.

We don't have to answer them. If you see threads/posts like this, hit report. Don't give attention to it and these people should stop asking for something they can easily find the answer to their questions if they know how to look.

Ye, If you report those non-sense, sometimes you'll end up bad.

Let's just wait for the response from our local mods. I'm sure they have their reason.
If you ask me, I also don't want the threads locked. It's informative and can create an actual good conversations.

It's good to hear that, We should make a move for the "betterment" we're saying earlier. In short, there should be a section/child board where helpful threads located or a pinned post where we can add those helpful threads like in the Indonesian board.

Sir ralle14 said
Quote
*This place is not a place to earn, this place is for learning, you may earn in signature campaigns/bounties, but it should not be your priority.

*Stop complaining and whining why the threads are difficult, these are not meant to be answered but to be read. You are not obligated to answer and it is not your duty to reply, It's not a survey.
referrence: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2412546.msg24670753#msg24670753

I've only said my opinion and that might not be the reason why Dabs and ralle14 locked those threads in the first place.
.....
Maybe it can be included in ralle14s' thread here: To all newbies, feeling newbie read this before opening a new thread

So you're saying that Mr. ralle14 is Mr. rickbig41?  Huh


Ye, I agree that the forum is not for bounties because it's very obvious that we must learn here through discussions with everyone. I also attended an annual forum so I know what's the real meaning of staying here but bounties are not the point here. As i said earlier, not all new members wanted to take an advantage of gaining income, some of them are here for research about the cryptocurrency since it has been seen in many news tv channel, tabloids, papers and other social media news.

 


       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!