Community generated suggestions to improve the forum (+ eventual voting on them)

[Joel_Jantsen]

That's a pretty solid list compiled. Nothing like it even if half the points from that list are actually implemented! Some of the suggestions are easy on the coding end while some are complex. Do you think theymos should be coding it for this forum if he has planned to release the new forum anytime soon?

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[Lafu]

Realy nice list of things, like it!  And I am in any case the same opinion!

Maybe a Subforum for reports and for questionable threads and posts and spam!
Wherever threads can be discussed that may seem conspicuous or suspicious!

[DooMAD]

Liking most of these suggestions.  One small [//EDIT: very minor and not at all urgent] one I'd like to add to the list is to show an "earned" merit stat next to the regular one, excluding the starting "inherited" merit.  So at the moment, for example, mine would show:

Merit: 1127 (+127)

And hilariousetc's would be (if I'm right that Heroes started with 500):

Merit: 1080 (+580)

I'm thinking that, over time, it's going to become tricky to tell what rank a user was when the system was launched.  It would be helpful to be able to differentiate between what they've actually been given by other users for their posts and what they started with.  The above example is pretty good as the OP has clearly earned way more than I have, so it seems a little unfair not to make that clearer.

[Joel_Jantsen]

Liking most of these suggestions.  One small one I'd like to add to the list is to show an "earned" merit stat next to the regular one, excluding the starting "inherited" merit.  So at the moment, for example, mine would show:

Man, look at the number of critical issues that should be taken care on priority! How hard it is to calculate the Default Merits - Earned Merits? You literally just have to know the default numbers for 5 ranks. This is something can be added on the merit page for deep analysis.

[DooMAD]

Man, look at the number of critical issues that should be taken care on priority!

I did say it was a small one, heh.  I know that there are plenty of more urgent things to consider and don't want to detract from any of that. 

How hard it is to calculate the Default Merits - Earned Merits? You literally just have to know the default numbers for 5 ranks.

But you also need to know what rank the user was when the system was introduced.  That might be simple enough to do now in some cases (keeping in mind that some have already ranked up, so it's not always obvious), but in future, it's not going to be easy at all.  Again, using the OP as an example, when hilariousetc does rank up to Legendary, some people might assume they started with 1000 and only earned 80 merits.  It's not representative of their phenomenal efforts here.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

One merit is nothing for juniors.

I disagree.  I think that's a huge obstacle overall.  Maybe not for some, but in general a lot of noobs are going to have a hard time getting that one merit.  This might lead to more begging and/or trading, but I think it's worth it.

Very nice that these suggestions are being compiled, and I can't wait to vote on them.  I'm pretty much all for making new members sing for their supper here, since that's basically what it comes down to in most cases.  Good job, hilariousetc.

Earned Merits? You literally just have to know the default numbers for 5 ranks. This is something can be added on the merit page for deep analysis.

Agreed.  I don't think "earned merits" being explicitly shown is necessary or even desirable.

[edwardceng]

What do you think if the login form has two steps like email login on google if the 2FA system hasn't been implemented? And the Forgot your password? link is on this page (password form after a username is valid). This thing can prevent random password injection.

And once again when Forgot your password? To use, enter the username/email there. For email I've tried an email that has not been registered in the provider and was successful, this is very risky. to overcome this, I agree with @hilariousetc's idea.

• Require email verification for new accounts.
• Require email verification first before passwords/emails are changed.

[Nikisa]

- what if merit--all merit--slowly deteriorates over time? This could help solve some issues--for example, members who got grandfathered into the merit system with a high rank, but do not post anything worth meriting. Over time, their rank would deteriorate unless they step up their game.

Merit should not deteriorate.  If I make a good post, what makes that post less valuable over time?

Merit received for good posts decline naturally should not. But to reduce Merit obtained at startup Merit-system - on that you may want to think.

There are accounts of high ranks which filled activity in bounty companies (links to twitter and facebook) and since the launch of the Merit system did not write any good post and did not receive any Merit.

I understand that this proposal is unlikely to support users of high ranks )))

[hilariousetc]

That's a pretty solid list compiled. Nothing like it even if half the points from that list are actually implemented! Some of the suggestions are easy on the coding end while some are complex. Do you think theymos should be coding it for this forum if he has planned to release the new forum anytime soon?

I wouldn't expect him to do anything major here if the new forum isn't far off, but if it's going to be years before it's released then that's a different matter. However, simple things like punishing sig campaigns and assigning sub boards mods can be done now and take little to no effort from theymos. Meanwhile, the forum continues to the circle the drain getting worse and worse which each passing day. One day we're going to wake up and the forum will be 99% bot accounts and copy and pasters. Anything else can just be considered for development on the new forum if it hasn't already.

Liking most of these suggestions.  One small one I'd like to add to the list is to show an "earned" merit stat next to the regular one, excluding the starting "inherited" merit.  So at the moment, for example, mine would show:

Man, look at the number of critical issues that should be taken care on priority! How hard it is to calculate the Default Merits - Earned Merits? You literally just have to know the default numbers for 5 ranks. This is something can be added on the merit page for deep analysis.

How about we remove the default merits completely and everyone starts from ground zero? That would really sort the wheat from the chaff and stop all the whingers about it not being fair.

[TheQuin]

There are a lot of really good suggestions here so I'm just going to prioritise what I think is most urgent and what will be the most effective in reducing the spam problem.

• Requiring manually whitelisting of all new accounts before they can post. All new users will essentially be shadowbanned until they've been verified by a mod. This will eliminate 99% of bots and spammers before they even start. Spam threads can be trashed on sight before they even become spam megathreads.

This is the only effective way to deal with bots. The other suggestions about captcha and email verification are trivial for botnets and won't even slow them down.

• Require at least one merit to become a Junior Member (bots will never rise past Newbie status then and can be nuked once spotted).

• Remove signatures completely from lower ranks (at least Juniors). Purchasing a Copper Membership (or higher) could still get you one.

Whichever combination of this is implemented doesn't really matter but until members require at least 1 merit to get a signature there will be spambots by the thousand getting paid in shitcoins/tokens. The same requirement to be immune from the nuke button makes sense as well.

• Dedicated sub board mods for most boards that don't have any mods or non-global mods already assigned (Bitcoin Discussion, Beginners & Help, Off Topic etc).
• More patrollers/mods who just handle sig spam or farmers.
• More admins or demi-admins added to help with account recoveries and other admin duties.

All of these are desperately needed at the moment although implementing the first two suggestions may actually reduce the need.

[Welsh]

I disagree.  I think that's a huge obstacle overall.  Maybe not for some, but in general a lot of noobs are going to have a hard time getting that one merit.  This might lead to more begging and/or trading, but I think it's worth it.

Although, 1 merit might be hard to achieve for most of the low quality users here I think I would still be more comfortable requiring a few of them. Something like 3/5 seems to a good point which would prevent most of them or at the very least demotivate them from making several accounts to earn from airdrops and bounties.

[hilariousetc]

There are a lot of really good suggestions here so I'm just going to prioritise what I think is most urgent and what will be the most effective in reducing the spam problem.

• Requiring manually whitelisting of all new accounts before they can post. All new users will essentially be shadowbanned until they've been verified by a mod. This will eliminate 99% of bots and spammers before they even start. Spam threads can be trashed on sight before they even become spam megathreads.

This is the only effective way to deal with bots. The other suggestions about captcha and email verification are trivial for botnets and won't even slow them down.

It is the only way we'll likely stop them from being a nuisance and an eyesore, though it's a lot more work for staff. The benefits of it stopping 99% of bots outweigh any negatives though. Many other forums have this sort of post verification as well. As for captchas being bypassed, anything can be got around but it's one more hoop for them to jump through. I don't think I've joined many websites or forums before that didn't require email verification and if captchas are so pointless then why does pretty much every other forum use them? They have their benefits and will stop some bots at least.

• Require at least one merit to become a Junior Member (bots will never rise past Newbie status then and can be nuked once spotted).

• Remove signatures completely from lower ranks (at least Juniors). Purchasing a Copper Membership (or higher) could still get you one.

Whichever combination of this is implemented doesn't really matter but until members require at least 1 merit to get a signature there will be spambots by the thousand getting paid in shitcoins/tokens. The same requirement to be immune from the nuke button makes sense as well.

Agreed. A mere one merit requirement really puts a spanner in the works of bots and the very worst of posters. It doesn't effect anyone else's ability to post here either. It has no drawbacks at all as far as I can see.

• Dedicated sub board mods for most boards that don't have any mods or non-global mods already assigned (Bitcoin Discussion, Beginners & Help, Off Topic etc).
• More patrollers/mods who just handle sig spam or farmers.
• More admins or demi-admins added to help with account recoveries and other admin duties.

All of these are desperately needed at the moment although implementing the first two suggestions may actually reduce the need.

These could all be implemented today within a matter of minutes and the board would be better of for them instead of current staff being swamped with more things to do (that often aren't getting done) day after day.

I disagree.  I think that's a huge obstacle overall.  Maybe not for some, but in general a lot of noobs are going to have a hard time getting that one merit.  This might lead to more begging and/or trading, but I think it's worth it.

Although, 1 merit might be hard to achieve for most of the low quality users here I think I would still be more comfortable requiring a few of them. Something like 3/5 seems to a good point which would prevent most of them or at the very least demotivate them from making several accounts to earn from airdrops and bounties.

At a minimum it should be one. Maximum probably 5 or something. I would be more for it being just one if Juniors had their signatures removed completely. Then you need ten merit and enough activity to become a Member to get a signature. Either way the requirement should be something and one would be better than nothing. 

[TheQuin]

I don't think I've joined many websites or forums before that didn't require email verification and if captchas are so pointless then why does pretty much every other forum use them? They have their benefits and will stop some bots at least.

I've been doing a lot of antibot work recently and I'm not saying it is pointless because you want to put as many obstacles in the way as possible. I'm just trying to reduce any expectation that either of these will make a difference. Email verification just requires them to run an email server and a script to create the email accounts at the same time as the forum account and then acknowledge the link sent. You can buy software to solve reCAPTCHA for less than $100 a year subscription and the botnets I deal with have written their own solvers.

[LTU_btc]

When user is banned, reason of ban should be shown when he try to login. Then we would see less "I was banned without any reason", "I didn't anything wrong" and similar threads

[Welsh]

At a minimum it should be one. Maximum probably 5 or something. I would be more for it being just one if Juniors had their signatures removed completely. Then you need ten merit and enough activity to become a Member to get a signature. Either way the requirement should be something and one would be better than nothing. 

I quite like the idea of having only members, and above with signatures. That would literally solve so many problems of the bounty spam within the alternate cryptocurrencies section, but also would likely have an impact on several other sections too.

[hilariousetc]

It would solve a heck of a lot of problems and it's not an unreasonable or unreachable requirement either. Ten merit and being here for 2 and a half months is nothing. Something needs to change and we can't just allow people to come here who are 100% only here to earn. Many users literally have no interest or knowledge about bitcoin other than they've just heard you can earn here. Add into the mix when you can't speak English very well and it's a recipe for disaster. These users are then essentially forced to use google translate or just copy and paste a post. It's like signing up to a Lamborghini forum when you can't drive and don't even like cars. Why would anyone do that? Nobody would normally sign up to a web forum for something they have little to no interest in but this one is different when you're throwing payment into the mix. Adding a merit requirement would severely curb this behaviour and force campaigns to not accept and pay anyone for any old crap they can be bothered to make or copy and paste because they can't be trusted to do their job. Sadly, I'm not sure if anything from this list will be implemented anytime soon if at all other than maybe adding a few moderators.

When user is banned, reason of ban should be shown when he try to login. Then we would see less "I was banned without any reason", "I didn't anything wrong" and similar threads

It is when it's temp. It just doesn't on the permaban button. You could put a message and just set the ban to never expire which will be the same.

[jointherevolution]

Some of these suggestions are worthy of attention from the mods but I cannot agree with the suggestion to rmove signatures from lower members when the rules make it difficult to rank higher.

[Joel_Jantsen]

One day we're going to wake up and the forum will be 99% bot accounts and copy and pasters. Anything else can just be considered for development on the new forum if it hasn't already.

We aren't too far from that stage. I literally have to search for non-spammy topics and boards in order to join some relevant discussions. I don't even remember the last time I posted in the Bitcoin Discussion section. 

How about we remove the default merits completely and everyone starts from ground zero? That would really sort the wheat from the chaff and stop all the whingers about it not being fair.

That's one way to go about it but after being on the forum for all these years and finally hitting the legendary is some sort of achievement. And if asked to start from the scratch again, I don't think I'll have the time or energy to do so. I mean it would be demotivating for people like me who have worked their way up starting from the base.

[DooMAD]

I don't think I've joined many websites or forums before that didn't require email verification and if captchas are so pointless then why does pretty much every other forum use them? They have their benefits and will stop some bots at least.

I've been doing a lot of antibot work recently and I'm not saying it is pointless because you want to put as many obstacles in the way as possible. I'm just trying to reduce any expectation that either of these will make a difference. Email verification just requires them to run an email server and a script to create the email accounts at the same time as the forum account and then acknowledge the link sent. You can buy software to solve reCAPTCHA for less than $100 a year subscription and the botnets I deal with have written their own solvers.

I found it best to completely avoid any of the established captcha providers.  Back when I used to run a phpBB, I had a little-known visual captcha called KittenAuth.  It basically gave you 9 pictures in a 3x3 grid and the default setting was to select only the kittens.  But you could change the pictures to something more thematically appropriate for your site.  I found that far more effective than any other captcha I've ever encountered.  Only human beings got through after that.

The safest bet is to make a totally proprietary one.  The more obscure, the better.  But not text or numbers.  Use pictures.

However about we remove the default merits completely and everyone starts from ground zero? That would really sort the wheat from the chaff and stop all the whingers about it not being fair.

That works too.  Would certainly make it easier to spot bought accounts.

[Welsh]

I wouldn't be completely against the idea of removing the default merits to further distinguish the good quality posters from those who earned it by just being around here for a long time, and being somewhat active. Probably a little bit of an extreme measure though.

Although, anyone that has been here for even a short period should know of those that are of a particularly high standard. If we are talking from a campaign standpoint, then maybe the managers just need to raise their requirements. But, again that's up to them, and unless we start putting restrictions on campaigns they aren't going to do this voluntarily.