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gogodr (OP)
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February 27, 2014, 01:25:02 AM |
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If I were the one taking the project I would make an exchange for bitcoin and altcoins and give the option to sell credits.
System: 1 Credit == 1$
But the catch is that the company will make that credits only usable a whole month after purchase. This means that in the Terms of Service it should say that the time for the credits to be valid are so that the users can perform any chargeback if they don't see fit, and as protection so that if it is a stolen card, the rightful owner haves plenty of time to perform a chargeback too.
Alongside a secondary method of authentication could speed up this process via phone as an example.
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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NLNico
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February 27, 2014, 01:31:54 AM |
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No, scammers can and will do chargebacks after 6 months.
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cloverme
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SpacePirate.io
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February 27, 2014, 01:37:15 AM |
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If I were the one taking the project I would make an exchange for bitcoin and altcoins and give the option to sell credits.
System: 1 Credit == 1$
But the catch is that the company will make that credits only usable a whole month after purchase. This means that in the Terms of Service it should say that the time for the credits to be valid are so that the users can perform any chargeback if they don't see fit, and as protection so that if it is a stolen card, the rightful owner haves plenty of time to perform a chargeback too.
Alongside a secondary method of authentication could speed up this process via phone as an example.
Abandon all hope. I used to sell BTC and accepted paypal, 80%... yup 80% were fraudulent. There are so many stolen credit cards and compromised account out there, it will really surprise you. No merchant will stay with you for lots of chargebacks.... or charge upwards of 20% (like verotel, etc) to accept the risk. Keep looking into other ideas though. |
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Sukrim
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February 27, 2014, 01:44:03 AM |
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You will only be safe from chargebacks after 181 days, until then you need to treat all incoming transfers as unconfirmed. Also this is very likely against PayPal/CreditCard regulations/ToS, so they won't enter a partnership with you or close existing ones.
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gogodr (OP)
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February 27, 2014, 01:57:30 AM |
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Really? chargebacks after a whole month sounds very unreasonable.
Paypal has already shown interest in bitcoin, its not really that far fetched for paypal to do a join venture with a big exchange. (I believe the Winklevoss twins said something about they being interested in making an exchange)
Also.. why is this so hard? if chargebacks were as easy as everyone seems to think they are, why bitcoin? why not doing chargebacks on ebay or amazon ?
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NLNico
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February 27, 2014, 02:02:01 AM |
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Because when they do a charge back on ebay or amazon, they will start a dispute. And with that, the seller can show a receipt of the shipment and the charge back will be cancelled again.
With bitcoins u cannot show a receipt like that. Better yet it's not allowed to sell "virtual items" like bitcoins so you will have no chance to get your money back.
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Sukrim
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February 27, 2014, 02:05:55 AM |
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Also.. why is this so hard? if chargebacks were as easy as everyone seems to think they are, why bitcoin? why not doing chargebacks on ebay or amazon ?
Because eBay or Amazon are not protocols but companies who can throw you out/not accept you as customer any more. |
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gogodr (OP)
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February 27, 2014, 02:25:43 AM |
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then what about zynga and all the game companies that sell in game currency? they can be victims of chargebacks?
Those are virtual items too, credits which you can keep record of. (you can also keep record of bitcoins within the bitcoin protocol)
So disputing the chargeback shouldn't be hard if you have a proper business going on.
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KWH
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In Collateral I Trust.
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February 27, 2014, 02:28:40 AM |
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then what about zynga and all the game companies that sell in game currency? they can be victims of chargebacks?
Those are virtual items too, credits which you can keep record of. (you can also keep record of bitcoins within the bitcoin protocol)
So disputing the chargeback shouldn't be hard if you have a proper business going on.
If a credit card is involved, you can and will get charge backs. |
When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this:
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
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Sukrim
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February 27, 2014, 01:48:14 PM |
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then what about zynga and all the game companies that sell in game currency? they can be victims of chargebacks?
Those are virtual items too, credits which you can keep record of. (you can also keep record of bitcoins within the bitcoin protocol)
So disputing the chargeback shouldn't be hard if you have a proper business going on.
They have full control over their funds and product though, so they can either deduct the "gems" or whatever they sold from the account or likely will just ban the account alltogether. Also these things are very often not transferable between user accounts. You have 0 power over the funds at someone else's BTC address. |
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NLNico
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February 27, 2014, 01:55:44 PM
Last edit: February 27, 2014, 02:06:55 PM by NLNico |
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So disputing the chargeback shouldn't be hard if you have a proper business going on. Please search a bit more through this forum. Many MANY MANY people have been scammed this way. Even legitimate businesses. PayPal doesn't care at all. You will be scammed. You will lose a lot of money. But if you still don't believe it.. good luck  edit: btw this problem is not completely limited to bitcoins, just read sites like www.paypalsucks.com But bitcoins are extra easy to scam for because u cannot chargeback a bitcoin, you have no physical address/info and PP will not help you with a dispute since it's against the TOS. |
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BurtW
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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
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February 27, 2014, 02:04:42 PM |
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The record for a charge back is over one year!
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Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security. Read all about it here: http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/ Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated! |
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E.exchanger
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February 27, 2014, 04:40:33 PM |
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There is high risk involved in selling btc with payment reversible methods!!! The scammers will chargeback that's like 100%
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gogodr (OP)
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February 27, 2014, 04:53:07 PM |
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yeah, but that really narrows it down to hand to hand transactions. which restricts the bitcoin acquisition to only places that mined bitcoin initially.
there must be a way..
There is nothing to lose with banks, working together with a bank so that they make those chargebacks easier to dispute shouldn't be impossible. There is a big market for it, and a fee on each transaction should be attractive enough.
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BurtW
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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
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February 27, 2014, 04:58:51 PM |
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Point: this has been tried many, many, many times - all failed.
Point: it is your time and money to lose.
Good luck!
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Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security. Read all about it here: http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/ Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated! |
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maxuser
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February 27, 2014, 06:38:40 PM |
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Because when they do a charge back on ebay or amazon, they will start a dispute. And with that, the seller can show a receipt of the shipment and the charge back will be cancelled again.
Create a marketplace where peoples who need bitcoins will buy products in stores with cash for the peoples who want to sell their bitcoins... So instead of treading directly between cash and bitcoins we will trade between bitcoins and products... Later if the person really want cash he can directly resell the product... |
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Sukrim
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February 27, 2014, 09:42:42 PM |
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Point: this has been tried many, many, many times - all failed.
Point: it is your time and money to lose.
Good luck!
well, virwox still sells linden dollars for PayPal and exchanges them for btc. For years now. Still for new merchants this is no longer possible. |
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Initscri
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February 28, 2014, 02:36:02 AM |
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Point: this has been tried many, many, many times - all failed.
Point: it is your time and money to lose.
Good luck!
well, virwox still sells linden dollars for PayPal and exchanges them for btc. For years now. Still for new merchants this is no longer possible. Yeah... But they have to charge extreme fees/rates above the actual Bitcoin value to Account for risk/loss; as well as they have many fraud prevention tactics built within their systems. |
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Web Developer. PM for details.
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gogodr (OP)
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February 28, 2014, 03:54:41 AM |
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Point: this has been tried many, many, many times - all failed.
Point: it is your time and money to lose.
Good luck!
well, virwox still sells linden dollars for PayPal and exchanges them for btc. For years now. Still for new merchants this is no longer possible. Yeah... But they have to charge extreme fees/rates above the actual Bitcoin value to Account for risk/loss; as well as they have many fraud prevention tactics built within their systems. Myself I'm more than willing to pay a 10~20% fee if that means being able to buy bitcoin with my visa or paypal. |
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Initscri
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February 28, 2014, 04:25:57 AM |
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Point: this has been tried many, many, many times - all failed.
Point: it is your time and money to lose.
Good luck!
well, virwox still sells linden dollars for PayPal and exchanges them for btc. For years now. Still for new merchants this is no longer possible. Yeah... But they have to charge extreme fees/rates above the actual Bitcoin value to Account for risk/loss; as well as they have many fraud prevention tactics built within their systems. Myself I'm more than willing to pay a 10~20% fee if that means being able to buy bitcoin with my visa or paypal. I believe it was more than that for me; don't forget PayPal or Skill charges (not to mention random fraud checks of having to send in electricity statements / valid id). Not worth it IMO. |
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Web Developer. PM for details.
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bgade
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March 24, 2014, 03:08:36 AM |
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I believe it was more than that for me; don't forget PayPal or Skill charges (not to mention random fraud checks of having to send in electricity statements / valid id).
Not worth it IMO.
If you accept Visa/Mastercard with a chip at a point of sale is the risk of chargeback still the same? Or does that go away when the card and pin were physically present? |
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