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Author Topic: You want the bear market to stop? Here are some things you can do :)  (Read 772 times)
d5000
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August 15, 2018, 04:54:24 AM
Last edit: August 28, 2018, 03:25:08 AM by d5000
Merited by 1Referee (1), Kakmakr (1), Pursuer (1)
 #1

Many people are speculating if we're already reached the bottom of the bear market.

The truth is - that's not important. If we go up now from a strong $6000 base, or if we fall down to $3000 or even lower - that's peanuts. For sustainable growth, it doesn't matter.

What's important is that Bitcoin must become stronger as an ecosystem. You're fearing speculation and manipulation? The more Bitcoin gets used, the less influence the "big whales" will have. And you, the Bitcoin user - beginner, average Joe or advanced crypto geek - can do a lot for that.  Wink

Here are some examples:

  • The most important of all: USE Bitcoin. If there are services you regularly use and there is a business offering it for Bitcoin for a reasonable price: Give it a chance! Lists/portals with some options are here, here, and here. Or directly use a decentralized marketplace like OpenBazaar.
  • Are you a freelancer or own a business? Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work. Each good or service offered for Bitcoin can be seen as a buy order. So you're adding demand for Bitcoin without having to risk money (only perhaps some work, if you're really unlucky). You could increase your revenue offering Bitcoin-only promotions/specials - then maybe you could even convince some stubborn hodlers.
  • Even better: Try to offer a stable, guaranteed Bitcoin price for at least a day. That can bring even more stability into the market.
  • Or accept Lightning for micropayments, at least for a limited volume per day.
  • Are you employed, but your boss is open-minded and a geek? Offer him to pay a part of your salary in Bitcoin. (I would not take my whole salary, it's still too unstable, above all if you have a family.)
  • Do remittances directly with Bitcoin or with Bitcoin-accepting services.
  • Lightning: Help with beta-testing! Lightning is one of the most interesting technologies if we want to see mass adoption. The more users testing and finally using it, the better!
  • Test and discuss alternative scaling solutions, like sidechains or similar concepts.
  • Become a Bitcoin/blockchain developer. The Core client may be a bit difficult to start with, but there are a lot of services that already are waiting for someone to write and/or improve it. The more devs, the better.
  • If you have an idea how to improve usability, then propose and discuss it! If you're a developer, try at least a proof of concept. Or simply implement it Wink. Bitcoin is an open source project, so you can do literally what you want with the protocol! (Added 8-16)
  • Educate people about Bitcoin. Don't shill for FOMO - better explain the concepts and why it's an amazing technology bringing more freedom.

That's only a small list of some examples. Please add more in the discussion!

The more people realize that Bitcoin doesn't "grow" by magic, but by human contributions, the more stability and sustainability we'll achieve. And you don't have to be the new Satoshi to help. Just pay your pizza with BTC, for example. Wink

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August 15, 2018, 05:24:33 AM
 #2

Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work

this is the best thing everyone can do and I always encourage them as much as I can.
people always want to invest in bitcoin to have it, I say why not receive it directly as it was meant to ie. a currency which you receive as payment for your freelance work, your goods, your salary,...

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August 15, 2018, 06:05:29 AM
Merited by d5000 (1)
 #3

If you have a product or service based online business ,accept fixed bitcoin prices with a refund.
For example,a customer buys your service or product for 50 USD worth of btc.The bitcoin price doubles after one week and he actually paid you $100.This would be really frustrating to him so you offer him to refund 50 USD.You kinda lose money,but you get a loyal customer,who is paying with btc.  
Anyway,the bear market won't stop just because a bunch of people started accepting bitcoin payments.

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August 15, 2018, 04:36:43 PM
 #4

If you have a product or service based online business ,accept fixed bitcoin prices with a refund.
For example,a customer buys your service or product for 50 USD worth of btc.The bitcoin price doubles after one week and he actually paid you $100.This would be really frustrating to him so you offer him to refund 50 USD.You kinda lose money,but you get a loyal customer,who is paying with btc.
Interesting proposal. That would basically be "the other way around" to what I proposed here - in my proposal the merchant doesn't increase the price in the case Bitcoin goes down. The interesting thing is that in your proposal the merchant would not lose money measured in USD, only measured in Bitcoin - this could make it even more attractive. And above all: it would increase usage of BTC in bull markets, when people are eager to HODL.

The merchant could even charge a little plus for this "refund service" - e.g. 1% more - and then profit from hodlers even if the price finally doesn't go up.

Quote
 
Anyway,the bear market won't stop just because a bunch of people started accepting bitcoin payments.
That's true, but they can start a trend, and if it increases Bitcoin's circulation then this has a stabilizing effect. And if they use also the "backing" system I propose, with abundance of goods, then investing in Bitcoin becomes less risky even in bear markets, because people can spend the BTC a few hours after a crash and buy goods "to the price before the crash".

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August 15, 2018, 04:43:16 PM
 #5

The market is now starting to move upward. All we have to do is wait for the fully recovery, for now, let's just hold our token/coin to avoid more damage in the price. Hopefully, when Christmas season comes all price will move up again to the top.
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August 15, 2018, 04:47:02 PM
 #6

I would also add that if you own a business, especially an online business, then start accepting Bitcoin as a payment.

Even if you don't actually take too much in Bitcoin it adds credibility when people look at the payments you accept and see that you take Bitcoin.

I'm not cool enough to have a fancy signature so you're stuck reading this
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August 15, 2018, 04:54:58 PM
Last edit: August 17, 2018, 05:28:17 PM by r32godzilla
 #7

Yes.This seems to be much logical to stop bitcoin market turning bearish.In short,we must try to use bitcoin as much as we can either by making payments in bitcoin or by getting our salary and other earnings in bitcoin.By this way,bitcoin price would not be much dependant only upon the trade market as it would have a back support of people using it as a currency.

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August 15, 2018, 04:59:09 PM
 #8

We need more posts like this one on this section, although I don’t see it much of a life in it. It will be buried down the other shitthreads and/or filled in with lots of shitreplies.

What I like about it is that it doesn’t talk about knowledge or theory but rather about action. I think bitcointalk should be a community where initiatives like this should take place often and be followed to some extent.

OP: have you thought of moving it to the Serious Discussion or Ivory Tower sections where it would last longer and would be seen by more serious members?
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August 15, 2018, 05:01:50 PM
 #9

Many people are speculating if we're already reached the bottom of the bear market.

The truth is - that's not important. If we go up now from a strong $6000 base, or if we fall down to $3000 or even lower - that's peanuts. For sustainable growth, it doesn't matter.

What's important is that Bitcoin must become stronger as an ecosystem. You're fearing speculation and manipulation? The more Bitcoin gets used, the less influence they'll have. And you, the Bitcoin user - beginner, average Joe or advanced crypto geek - can do a lot for that.  Wink

Here are some examples:

  • The most important of all: USE Bitcoin. If there are services you regularly use and there is a business offering it for Bitcoin for a reasonable price: Give it a chance!
  • Are you a freelancer? Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work.
  • Even better: Try to offer a stable, guaranteed Bitcoin price for at least a day. That can bring even more stability into the market.
  • Or accept Lightning for micropayments, at least for a limited volume per day.
  • Are you employed, but your boss is open-minded and a geek? Offer him to pay a part of your salary in Bitcoin. (I would not take my whole salary, it's still too unstable, above all if you have a family.)
  • Do remittances directly with Bitcoin ore with Bitcoin-accepting services.
  • Lightning: Help with beta-testing! Lightning is one of the most interesting technologies if we want to see mass adoption. The more users testing and finally using it, the better!
  • Test and discuss alternative scaling solutions, like sidechains or similar concepts.
  • Become a Bitcoin/blockchain developer. The Core client may be a bit difficult to start with, but there are a lot of services that already are waiting for someone to write and/or improve it. The more devs, the better.

That's only a small list of some examples. Please add more in the discussion!

The more people realize that Bitcoin doesn't "grow" by magic, but by human contributions, the more stability and sustainability we'll achieve. And you don't have to be the new Satoshi to help. Just pay your pizza with BTC, for example. Wink


Interesting and valid points! What I can conclude from the entire thread is that we need to use bitcoin more as a payment solution instead of holding it as an investment. Correct you are and I would personally love to spend some of my bitcoins as a payment solution instead of fiat. However, we don't have much options available. While a lot of online freelancers accept bitcoin for their services, it is very hard to find an offline shop or merchants accepting it. If we can't use bitcoin for our daily expenses like grocery shopping, cab fare, public transport expenses, the kind of usage we are thinking, will remains as dreams only. Unless and until the governments provide a proper legal framework for crypto payments, we won't see the change! So it is really not dependent on us, it depends on the governments and their good will. In Japan and Germany, you can use bitcoin for your daily expenses because their governments recognized it as a legal form of payment. There's very little we can do without the regulatory help if we really want to encourage mass adoption of crypto.

I really don't want to discourage you, but that's what I feel is true!

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August 15, 2018, 05:14:32 PM
 #10

I like the spirit you are giving to the community where you created a list of how people can contribute to Bitcoin in ending the bear market but what are you really hoping? That this ways can translate into helping BTC have more demand in the market? Because I don't think that this is a simple demand and supply problem anymore right now we are facing more than that like legal issues, virtual robbery, and also FUD. Also we cannot encourage people effectively in using their BTC if they themselves know that their BTC has a lower price now compared to before.  

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August 15, 2018, 05:19:18 PM
 #11


  • The most important of all: USE Bitcoin. If there are services you regularly use and there is a business offering it for Bitcoin for a reasonable price: Give it a chance!

Agreed that this is the most important. Bitcoin will not rise with everyone just holding onto their coins and praying it goes up in value, it will rise with people using it as a currency.

Also more merchants need to accept Bitcoin so it becomes a normal payment system.[/list]

Learn more about the AXEL project here: https://axel.network/
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August 15, 2018, 05:26:11 PM
 #12

  • Are you employed, but your boss is open-minded and a geek? Offer him to pay a part of your salary in Bitcoin. (I would not take my whole salary, it's still too unstable, above all if you have a family.)

I'm pretty sure my boss is partly a geek, but knowing that I'm in an SEC-registered company with a strict payroll protocol, I don't think I can ask him to pay me in bitcoin partly. We've discussed about cryptocurrencies for some time now and he's pretty much open to it, however it worries him that it will take a lot of effort (which he knows would be in dire anyway) to get his voice heard and get that thing accepted. On a freelance work, it can be done, though in a regular day job? Good luck with that.

The more people realize that Bitcoin doesn't "grow" by magic, but by human contributions, the more stability and sustainability we'll achieve. And you don't have to be the new Satoshi to help. Just pay your pizza with BTC, for example. Wink

Which, sadly most people fail to realize. Bitcoin isn't created out of thin air, and most people think that through speculation most of the time, bitcoin becomes successful. Fundamentals should also follow suit alongside price because if that stagnates, the rest of the coin will crumble still no matter how insane the price is.

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August 15, 2018, 06:09:46 PM
 #13

OP: have you thought of moving it to the Serious Discussion or Ivory Tower sections where it would last longer and would be seen by more serious members?

Hey, I'm a serious member but I'm not cool enough to post in the Ivory Tower yet (need more activity and merit!) so it would suck to not be able to contribute to this post...but I agree this thread shouldn't get buried either. So here's a quick bump!

I'm not cool enough to have a fancy signature so you're stuck reading this
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August 15, 2018, 06:23:19 PM
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 #14

  • Are you employed, but your boss is open-minded and a geek? Offer him to pay a part of your salary in Bitcoin. (I would not take my whole salary, it's still too unstable, above all if you have a family.)
This one on your list is flawed for the reason of its legality. Most countries under their labor law when it comes to the payment of their wages the employers must always pay them with their local fiat currency, both the employers and employees don't really have a choice on what money they will pay and receive for their wages. However I have an alternative solution for your suggestion, the employees can always use some part of their salary to buy Bitcoin directly by themselves, with this they have more control at what price they will buy BTC.

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August 15, 2018, 07:02:42 PM
 #15

  • Are you employed, but your boss is open-minded and a geek? Offer him to pay a part of your salary in Bitcoin. (I would not take my whole salary, it's still too unstable, above all if you have a family.)
This one on your list is flawed for the reason of its legality. Most countries under their labor law when it comes to the payment of their wages the employers must always pay them with their local fiat currency, both the employers and employees don't really have a choice on what money they will pay and receive for their wages. However I have an alternative solution for your suggestion, the employees can always use some part of their salary to buy Bitcoin directly by themselves, with this they have more control at what price they will buy BTC.

It depends on the country, some give you a choice. I'm sure OP meant that if you live in a place where you can legally choose your currency to get some in Bitcoin...but I also like your compromise solution of employees buying BTC. It would be even cooler if companies set it up to make it easier for employees to use their salary to purchase Bitcoin.

I'm not cool enough to have a fancy signature so you're stuck reading this
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August 15, 2018, 08:01:36 PM
 #16

that's a great list that would definitely help mitigate the effects of continuous dumping .However, you are missing one major point which is not all people are actually looking for the bearish market to end ! Have you thought about this before?! whales are shorting hard and only cares about making more money and big corporations wanna get into the market in lower prices , so these individual acts won't stand a chance against these people  Cry

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August 15, 2018, 08:15:57 PM
 #17

If you have a product or service based online business ,accept fixed bitcoin prices with a refund.
For example,a customer buys your service or product for 50 USD worth of btc.The bitcoin price doubles after one week and he actually paid you $100.This would be really frustrating to him so you offer him to refund 50 USD.You kinda lose money,but you get a loyal customer,who is paying with btc.  
Anyway,the bear market won't stop just because a bunch of people started accepting bitcoin payments.
Only if you are an idiot you would refund the customer that extra $50, What if after a week the price drops down and the amount which you have already received becomes less than $50? I don't think your customers pay you more bitcoin just because the price went down, This is the same with business owners, Why would they refund their customers, That doesn't make any sense.
This one on your list is flawed for the reason of its legality. Most countries under their labor law when it comes to the payment of their wages the employers must always pay them with their local fiat currency,
Governments are the ones obligated to pay the salaries of their employees in local fiat currency, In private sector there is no such an obligation to pay their wages in fiat, They could pay with whatever currency of their choice, It depends on the employees if they accept bitcoin or not, I don't see why they should accept bitcoin? There is too much volatility in the price.

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August 15, 2018, 08:59:17 PM
 #18

This one on your list is flawed for the reason of its legality. Most countries under their labor law when it comes to the payment of their wages the employers must always pay them with their local fiat currency,
Governments are the ones obligated to pay the salaries of their employees in local fiat currency, In private sector there is no such an obligation to pay their wages in fiat, They could pay with whatever currency of their choice, It depends on the employees if they accept bitcoin or not, I don't see why they should accept bitcoin? There is too much volatility in the price.

Depends on the country you're living in. Some countries do make it mandatory for all employers to pay their employees in the local fiat currency.

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August 15, 2018, 09:19:58 PM
 #19

Good points op, although I have to say that falling to 3000 would indicate a serious problem with BTC. Corrections in an uptrend are normal to occur and they are known to go as low as to the beginning of the exponential rise, or even slightly below it, but 3k would be too much. That would be a drop by 85% of total value and would require a prolonged bear market (2 years or more) which at current state of BTC is not possible without fundamental flaws or a worldwide ban occuring.

 
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August 15, 2018, 09:23:27 PM
 #20

Using bitcoin is the most important thing should be done for stopping the bear market. About 10 years has passed since the creation of bitcoin and Bitcoin must be used for buys and sells more.  Otherwise it's a useless thing.
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August 15, 2018, 09:29:42 PM
 #21

That would be a drop by 85% of total value

Total value or ATH value?

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August 15, 2018, 09:37:59 PM
 #22

Initially, the Bitcoin was created as a decentralized payment system. It's just a shame to see that people are now using it as an investment avenue or opportunity. The use of it as an investment, in my opinion, has led to the price instability that we now experience. In addition to your suggestions, it will be nice to see the Bitcoin being used more for the actual purpose for which it was created (payment system). I think when the Bitcoin is being less used as a means to accrue wealth, its price will become more stable and will lead to a better ecosystem and a much more widely adopted coin.
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August 15, 2018, 09:52:29 PM
 #23

That would be a drop by 85% of total value

Total value or ATH value?

ATH value of course, or peak value if you prefer.

Initially, the Bitcoin was created as a decentralized payment system. It's just a shame to see that people are now using it as an investment avenue or opportunity. The use of it as an investment, in my opinion, has led to the price instability that we now experience. In addition to your suggestions, it will be nice to see the Bitcoin being used more for the actual purpose for which it was created (payment system). I think when the Bitcoin is being less used as a means to accrue wealth, its price will become more stable and will lead to a better ecosystem and a much more widely adopted coin.

Not really. The incentive to store and hold is completely normal, especially in the times when the gold standard no longer exists. You can't hold fiat money because it's inflationary, so people are naturally looking for things that appreciate in value or at least manages to hold relatively the same value throughout the years.
There's a reason why Bitcoin is called the digital gold. Have you seen anyone pay with physical gold? Bitcoin combines deflationary precious metals and modern fiat-based payment systems.

 
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August 15, 2018, 10:20:52 PM
 #24

I definitely agree with the information shared by tha author and this article should spread all throughout the crypto community for better awareness to everybody. With these recommendations, I believe this could get good impact on btc in relation to the market value.  All of the recommendation's were favorable to my end and much better than holding btc since it could only idle the cycle of the btc eco system. The only thing that I could share is that people shohld buy more btc during bear market to atleast increase it's demand.

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August 15, 2018, 10:40:46 PM
 #25

The market is now starting to move upward. All we have to do is wait for the fully recovery, for now, let's just hold our token/coin to avoid more damage in the price.
No! That is exactly what I didn't mean Wink Bitcoin must circulate to achieve adoption and strength - otherwise the next crash will follow fastly. What is true is that you shouldn't sell your coins for fiat money. Spend them on goods and services instead. You can also hold them - but this doesn't contribute to sustainable strength.

What I like about it is that it doesn’t talk about knowledge or theory but rather about action. I think bitcointalk should be a community where initiatives like this should take place often and be followed to some extent.

Fully agree! The reason I started this thread is to show some easy actions almost every Bitcoin user could achieve to strenghten the ecosystem.

Quote
OP: have you thought of moving it to the Serious Discussion or Ivory Tower sections where it would last longer and would be seen by more serious members?
I believe that the forum should not be segregated in a small "serious" and a big "spam" section. The goal should be to return the serious discussions in the main sections. In the last weeks I see more "serious discussions" popping up again in the regular sections - I guess it's partly because of the Merit system, but partly also because of the falling rewards of signature campaigns due to the bear market and the end of the ICO bubble. And the activity of the thread is pretty good until now. (The only thing I maybe should have done is to self-moderate it, but until now I don't really see spam contributions.)

Also more merchants need to accept Bitcoin so it becomes a normal payment system.
It's a classical chicken-and-egg problem: If there are no users, then there will be no merchants. Some merchants have abandoned Bitcoin in the last years - because there were too few people using it for payments.

However, we don't have much options available. [...] Unless and until the governments provide a proper legal framework for crypto payments, we won't see the change!
In most countries I know there are absolutely no problems accepting Bitcoin for simple payments (from the big economies, afaik China is the only one that is really restrictive). There is more hassle involved if you want to start a Bitcoin service like an exchange, and here the regulation often isn't clear. And you may be right that big brick-and-mortar chains are still waiting for more precise regulations.

But the bigger problem of merchants is the "hodler mentality". As I already answered to AXELNetwork, a pretty large group of merchants isn't accepting Bitcoin anymore because of the lack of customers using it.


I have to say that falling to 3000 would indicate a serious problem with BTC.[...] That would be a drop by 85% of total value and would require a prolonged bear market (2 years or more) which at current state of BTC is not possible without fundamental flaws or a worldwide ban occuring.
I don't think so. In 2014, Bitcoin hovered around the 300 USD mark for several months, in a very similar fashion than we are hovering now around the 6000-6500$ area. Then, in January 2015, a sudden drop/capitulation drove the BTC to $135. But it wasn't "the dead of Bitcoin", it actually recovered very fast and went again to the 200-300 range where it stayed for several months, laying the groundwork for the next bullish cycle. I can imagine a similar situation this year, with a sudden crash to 3000 in few days or weeks when the 6000 mark is sustainably broken, and then a fast recovery to 4500-5000 followed by a long sideways phase.

@MrConnect, @darkangel11: I believe some hodling is not harmful and only natural, but if all what Bitcoin users do is hodling, then MrConnect's fears are true - that leads to a small liquid supply in upmoves, causing our well-known crazy price manias, but also the panics when the market turns bearish and the liquid supply greatly overtakes demand. Usage as a currency/payment medium, instead, leads to a more stable supply and demand.

The ideal situation would be near 30% hodling and 70% currency usage, but even if we can reach 30% currency usage then Bitcoin has made a big step forward (I believe it's actually near 5%).

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August 15, 2018, 10:56:20 PM
 #26

Will you be able to stop them once they have paper Bitcoin and trade it on the side.  Look at gold and silver.  Once the bankers got you they got you.  Bitcoin should of skyrocketed with the no ETF decision.  They want ETF so we will get it soon.  The market will pump also.   Cheesy

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August 15, 2018, 10:57:09 PM
 #27


Also more merchants need to accept Bitcoin so it becomes a normal payment system.
It's a classical chicken-and-egg problem: If there are no users, then there will be no merchants. Some merchants have abandoned Bitcoin in the last years - because there were too few people using it for payments.

Yes I understand, I just meant this as an addition to your suggestion of how to get the bear market to stop. If you want to see Bitcoin bounce back and you are a merchant of some kind then you should accept Bitcoin as a payment method, even if you aren't getting too many payments that way.

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August 15, 2018, 11:04:26 PM
 #28

That is a very positive way to help bitcoin to move its circulation but I still prefer long term holding wherein I would just be an observer and make some vacation with this bearish condition and be back when its recover.
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August 15, 2018, 11:12:56 PM
 #29

That is a very positive way to help bitcoin to move its circulation but I still prefer long term holding wherein I would just be an observer and make some vacation with this bearish condition and be back when its recover.

If everyone thinks like you do there won't be a recovery from these bearish conditions.

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August 15, 2018, 11:19:53 PM
 #30

very good idea, I agree with you. Good contributions by using and utilizing bitcoin for our every need can make bitcoin recover again.

maybe some countries ban bitcoin, but we can do underground transactions well.

if you want to go back bullish, then make bitcoin a part of our lives.
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August 15, 2018, 11:25:50 PM
 #31

Usage by everyday people would help a lot not just "geekish" part of humanity aka us Cheesy

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August 15, 2018, 11:37:22 PM
 #32

  • Are you a freelancer? Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work.
All I can do is do this point. The rest I still believe in crypto and hold my coins. And as a trader, I have to keep trading.
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August 15, 2018, 11:43:50 PM
 #33

  • The most important of all: USE Bitcoin. If there are services you regularly use and there is a business offering it for Bitcoin for a reasonable price: Give it a chance!
  • Are you a freelancer? Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work.
  • Even better: Try to offer a stable, guaranteed Bitcoin price for at least a day. That can bring even more stability into the market.
  • Or accept Lightning for micropayments, at least for a limited volume per day.
  • Are you employed, but your boss is open-minded and a geek? Offer him to pay a part of your salary in Bitcoin. (I would not take my whole salary, it's still too unstable, above all if you have a family.)
  • Do remittances directly with Bitcoin ore with Bitcoin-accepting services.
  • Lightning: Help with beta-testing! Lightning is one of the most interesting technologies if we want to see mass adoption. The more users testing and finally using it, the better!
  • Test and discuss alternative scaling solutions, like sidechains or similar concepts.
  • Become a Bitcoin/blockchain developer. The Core client may be a bit difficult to start with, but there are a lot of services that already are waiting for someone to write and/or improve it. The more devs, the better.
Dude.. All these don't help to stop the bear market. This is just forcing users to adopt more into bitcoin, and these have tiny to almost no effect on the market. In reality, the bear market is in such state only because of a boring first 8 months of this year. There's nothing much really happen, I swear if you talk about ETF, I'll pin you down. ETF is shit and has only the market conditions worse because people are so into it.

Lightning network hasn't got off to a great start, what we need is some really good news, or something that would actually inspire the community.


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August 16, 2018, 12:13:26 AM
 #34

Quote
The more people realize that Bitcoin doesn't "grow" by magic, but by human contributions, the more stability and sustainability we'll achieve. And you don't have to be the new Satoshi to help. Just pay your pizza with BTC, for example. Wink

So you want PROPAGANDA AND FOMO right ?

  • It does not matter how many scams on exchanges and hacks happen
  • No one cares about volatility and ICO scams
  • No one cares about forks and alternative coins that have THE SAME background technology
  • No one cares about early adopters indoctrinating others to use bitcoins while they hoard and then SELL on the peak converting them to DOLLARS or EUROS

All you want is to indoctrinate others so your bitcoins keep going up and the bear market stops. USE THEM YOURSELF, and stop telling others what to do with their "money". And stop hoarding them, the truth is that people are selling because Bitcoin is not working as a currency and it is not working as a store of value, it is hard to use and insecure for the average user.

People are selling mining devices, hardware wallets, etc. Which they sell in traditional money, instead of not just Bitcoin.

BTCubblecoin success depends on propaganda and someone pumping the coin. Do not be the Greater Fool.
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August 16, 2018, 12:24:16 AM
 #35

Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work.


Thanks for the advice! However, I've been doing it for some time now.
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August 16, 2018, 07:43:52 AM
 #36

Im currently interning at an ICO Consultancy and my boss offered to pay my bonus in either cash or its worth in BTCs. Ah Decisions, decisions. Maybe I'll get half and half.
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August 16, 2018, 08:22:56 AM
 #37

If you honestly want the bear market to end, you should be brave enough to hold your coins and stop dumping it at a loss.
The more coins are dumped at a miserable price, the more bearish the market gets.
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August 16, 2018, 08:13:50 PM
 #38

I don't think so. In 2014, Bitcoin hovered around the 300 USD mark for several months, in a very similar fashion than we are hovering now around the 6000-6500$ area. Then, in January 2015, a sudden drop/capitulation drove the BTC to $135. But it wasn't "the dead of Bitcoin", it actually recovered very fast and went again to the 200-300 range where it stayed for several months, laying the groundwork for the next bullish cycle. I can imagine a similar situation this year, with a sudden crash to 3000 in few days or weeks when the 6000 mark is sustainably broken, and then a fast recovery to 4500-5000 followed by a long sideways phase.

@MrConnect, @darkangel11: I believe some hodling is not harmful and only natural, but if all what Bitcoin users do is hodling, then MrConnect's fears are true - that leads to a small liquid supply in upmoves, causing our well-known crazy price manias, but also the panics when the market turns bearish and the liquid supply greatly overtakes demand. Usage as a currency/payment medium, instead, leads to a more stable supply and demand.

The ideal situation would be near 30% hodling and 70% currency usage, but even if we can reach 30% currency usage then Bitcoin has made a big step forward (I believe it's actually near 5%).

IMO we can't compare the previous crash and its reasons to the current one because back then there were completely different things driving it.
-lower exchange liquidity, lower market cap, less countries involved, basically no laws and regulations, almost no real adoption
And at times like that we had china opening exchanges in 2013 that ended up faking volume and driving the price up hand in hand with bot willy. In 2014 it all went down to hell with the collapse of the biggest exchange and right when the bear market was starting to stabilize came chinese exchange bans that completely nullified the whole 2013 rally. All factors that drove the price down were lying dead in early 2015. Such a crash with the current state of affairs is hard to imagine.

 
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August 16, 2018, 10:45:52 PM
 #39

Dude.. All these don't help to stop the bear market. This is just forcing users to adopt more into bitcoin, and these have tiny to almost no effect on the market.
If there are only a couple of dudes following these advices, then you're totally right. But the goal is - like you said - to increase usage as a currency. This gives Bitcoin more stability and viability.

Without currency usage, Bitcoin is only an asset which fluctuates purely driven by speculation. There is no scarcity because there are thousands of other coins that could be a "digital gold", too. Currency usage, as I explained in my last post, leads to a more stable market due to more buy and sell orders. You can see it that way: Every good or service offered for Bitcoin is actually a buy order. The more buy orders, the less likely is a crash.

Quote
I swear if you talk about ETF, I'll pin you down. ETF is shit and has only the market conditions worse because people are so into it.
Here you are totally right. While the ETF is a sign for adoption as a financial instrument (which is also a legit use case) the hype surrounding it is not really justified.

Quote
Lightning network hasn't got off to a great start, what we need is some really good news, or something that would actually inspire the community.
"News driven speculation" isn't something that gives Bitcoin stability. It's more the other way around. If we only buy when there are "good news", then we're treating Bitcoin like a stock, and not like a currency. And stocks are often very volatile, so this usage leads to deeper crashes.

Im currently interning at an ICO Consultancy and my boss offered to pay my bonus in either cash or its worth in BTCs. Ah Decisions, decisions. Maybe I'll get half and half.
Cool Smiley

So you want PROPAGANDA AND FOMO right ?
Ah, finally some harsh disagreement. Popcorn!

No, FOMO is exactly one of the signs of the current "speculation-driven usage" I would like to see replaced, at least in part, by "currency usage". If the advices ("indoctrination", as you call it) I gave were followed by more people, then we would actually see less FOMO, and less sharp price increases. We would perhaps take years to find a new ATH. But at the same time it's a sane and sustainable growth, and we likely won't see harsh crashes again.

Quote
All you want is to indoctrinate others so your bitcoins keep going up and the bear market stops.

If you call a couple of advices in a forum "indoctrination", then yes, I like to indoctrinate Bitcoin users Wink (And no, I'm not a big Bitcoin holder.)

Quote
USE THEM YOURSELF, and stop telling others what to do with their "money".
I'm actually using them. Smiley

Quote
Bitcoin is not working as a currency and it is not working as a store of value, it is hard to use and insecure for the average user.
Usability could be better, that's true. So here's a new advice I would like to add:

  • If you have an idea how to improve usability, then propose and discuss it! If you're a developer, try at least a proof of concept. Or simply implement it Wink. Bitcoin is an open source project, so you can do literally what you want with the protocol!

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August 16, 2018, 10:50:20 PM
 #40

Will you be able to stop them once they have paper Bitcoin and trade it on the side.  Look at gold and silver.  Once the bankers got you they got you.  Bitcoin should of skyrocketed with the no ETF decision.  They want ETF so we will get it soon.  The market will pump also.   Cheesy

I don't think we will see Bitcoin paper because its too similar to fiat currency, but I agree with you that once ETF approves crypto the market will pump.
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August 16, 2018, 11:38:12 PM
 #41

IMO we can't compare the previous crash and its reasons to the current one because back then there were completely different things driving it.
-lower exchange liquidity, lower market cap, less countries involved, basically no laws and regulations, almost no real adoption
And at times like that we had china opening exchanges in 2013 that ended up faking volume and driving the price up hand in hand with bot willy. In 2014 it all went down to hell with the collapse of the biggest exchange and right when the bear market was starting to stabilize came chinese exchange bans that completely nullified the whole 2013 rally. All factors that drove the price down were lying dead in early 2015. Such a crash with the current state of affairs is hard to imagine.
You're partly right, in my opinion, and that's also the reason why I can imagine that there is a possibility we've already seen the low in the $6000 area which holds surprisingly strong.

But on the other hand, there are other factors that can lead to instability and volatility, and could drive us to another "capitulation crash" like in January 2015. The most important of these factors is the sheer number of totally worthless ICO projects and low-quality altcoins that have get far too much attention in 2017 and early 2018. Some users of these coins are still hodling even if they've lost 90% of their value, and even they will eventually capitulate totally. And Bitcoin can be driven down by this phenomenon - take into account that the "dominance" value currently sits only at 50%, and in 2013/14 it was at 80-90%. So the Bitcoin problems in 2013/14 were largely "homemade" (Mt. Gox etc.) while now the "crypto market" as a whole could drive Bitcoin a bit further down.

However, that's far from sure, and so there is some room for optimism. Above all if many people follow the advices I gave in the OP Wink I currently think there is a 30-40% probability we've already seen the low of this cycle, while there is a 60-70% likelihood that we see lower lows. Maybe not 3000, but 4500-5000 is very realistic if there are no positive news nor a boost in adoption.

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August 16, 2018, 11:43:43 PM
 #42

If there are only a couple of dudes following these advices, then you're totally right. But the goal is - like you said - to increase usage as a currency. This gives Bitcoin more stability and viability.

Without currency usage, Bitcoin is only an asset which fluctuates purely driven by speculation. There is no scarcity because there are thousands of other coins that could be a "digital gold", too. Currency usage, as I explained in my last post, leads to a more stable market due to more buy and sell orders. You can see it that way: Every good or service offered for Bitcoin is actually a buy order. The more buy orders, the less likely is a crash.
Bitcoin has become an asset purely driven by speculation. I can say that at least 90% of bitcoin users think of bitcoin as an asset(investment) than thinking of it as a currency. There are actual influencers in the crypto market. And more buy orders doesn't mean people are buying more. It can simply mean that one person is placing multiple buy orders and selling them immediately, or in a short while. The same can happen for sell orders.

Here you are totally right. While the ETF is a sign for adoption as a financial instrument (which is also a legit use case) the hype surrounding it is not really justified.
ETF ruins bitcoin's purpose. It makes people think bitcoin is an actual asset(it qualifies as an asset, since currencies are also taken as assets in accounting terms but in economical terms it isn't).  You're using a centralized third party to get sheet of paper that says you own this much bitcoin. Do you see the amount of irony?

"News driven speculation" isn't something that gives Bitcoin stability. It's more the other way around. If we only buy when there are "good news", then we're treating Bitcoin like a stock, and not like a currency. And stocks are often very volatile, so this usage leads to deeper crashes.
People are treating bitcoin as a stock, and not as a currency,like I said. And if you still don't realize that bitcoin is only driven by news(along with demand and supply) nowadays, you need to start catching up. Last year's bitcoin gold forks drove people to insane amounts to buy bitcoin and Jamie Dimon's criticism drove people to crash bitcoin, if that isn't news driven speculation, then I don't know what is.


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August 17, 2018, 03:13:07 AM
 #43

Bitcoin has become an asset purely driven by speculation.
True. I would even say it hasn't "become" that, but it has been so since at least 2013. But is this really good for Bitcoin ? My intention is to (help to) change that.
Quote
And more buy orders doesn't mean people are buying more. It can simply mean that one person is placing multiple buy orders and selling them immediately, or in a short while.
You misunderstood me. What you say is pretty obvious. I was mentioning merchants offering goods and services because they can be thought of like buy orders. The more merchants accepting BTC, the more demand for BTC. Even if they're using BitPay or a similar payment processor (and so they aren't "backing" Bitcoin themselves), BitPay's demand for Bitcoin increases in this case.

ETF ruins bitcoin's purpose. It makes people think bitcoin is an actual asset(it qualifies as an asset, since currencies are also taken as assets in accounting terms but in economical terms it isn't).  You're using a centralized third party to get sheet of paper that says you own this much bitcoin. Do you see the amount of irony?
I mostly agree, but I wouldn't say that ETFs "ruin" Bitcoin's purpose. In reality, an ETF has nothing to do with Bitcoin's "value proposal". But an ETF can also not be prevented. If Wall Street wants to gamble with BTC, there's nothing we can do. However, I would not overestimate the influence an ETF can have. It could increase volatility temporally, but it could also be the other way around.

People are treating bitcoin as a stock, and not as a currency,like I said.
And that's not good, like I said Grin

And if you still don't realize that bitcoin is only driven by news(along with demand and supply) nowadays, you need to start catching up. Last year's bitcoin gold forks drove people to insane amounts to buy bitcoin and Jamie Dimon's criticism drove people to crash bitcoin, if that isn't news driven speculation, then I don't know what is.
Again. There is a lot of news driven speculation, yes. The purpose of this thread is to change something. If you want to continue with the news-driven, stock-like boom-bust cycles it's up to you but then BTC will bubble and crash again and again. The community should, imo, change its mentality a bit. Less get-rich-quick scheme, more currency usage. Then Bitcoin will eventually grow organically. It's true, we need some technical solutions to achieve mass adoption, but LN is slowly maturing and in 1-2 years it can be stable enough for everyday usage.

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August 17, 2018, 03:16:25 AM
 #44

What's important is that Bitcoin must become stronger as an ecosystem. You're fearing speculation and manipulation? The more Bitcoin gets used, the less influence they'll have. And you, the Bitcoin user - beginner, average Joe or advanced crypto geek - can do a lot for that. 


I think, also, that the more people want to use it (to extract value from its BTC into fiat) the more likely the market its going to react. Markets have their cycle and if the overall trend is selling, because more people sell then rather buy, the voila... nothing to do but stay and play the waiting game, sometimes you have a good year, sometimes you gotta be prepared.
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August 17, 2018, 03:23:18 AM
 #45

I totally agree with this thought. The only thing that will make the prices going up again is trying to make bitcoin usable again. We should spread the words around the world that how easier using bitcoin as a payment. We could make it by accepted bitcoin to pay our work or to pay our thing that we sell. Togather we can!!
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August 17, 2018, 03:29:08 AM
 #46

If you have a product or service based online business ,accept fixed bitcoin prices with a refund.
For example,a customer buys your service or product for 50 USD worth of btc.The bitcoin price doubles after one week and he actually paid you $100.This would be really frustrating to him so you offer him to refund 50 USD.You kinda lose money,but you get a loyal customer,who is paying with btc. 
Anyway,the bear market won't stop just because a bunch of people started accepting bitcoin payments.

we don't live in a perfect world which means this is not possible because it will simply be abused. this can actually become a way of earning money for some people if they wished. for instance looking at last year (2017) you can see bitcoin has been on the rise for at least 70% of the year. one way of speculating could have been speculating the rise then going to this particular shop and buying stuff. then when the price goes up you ask for refund. the result would be a lot of free items in your possession while you keep getting your money back.

usually the merchants who start accepting bitcoin payments increase their revenue automatically, they don't need additional incentive to bring in bitcoin paying customers. if anything a simple discount (which can be the extra fee that credit  card companies charge the merchant when using them) can be used.

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August 17, 2018, 09:36:31 AM
 #47

Yes i understand what you mean. If you want the market bull run, lets use bitcoin more. If many peoples using bitcoin, then the demands of bitcoin will be increase. When the demands increase, the price will increase as well. The cryptocurrency market need more real users in their daily.

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August 17, 2018, 09:48:59 AM
 #48

Excellent suggestions. I am always happy to take bitcoin for work or trade. In reality  bitcoin is just a method of bartering-for example: i you want to buy a consignment of fruit, I want to buy but i don't have cash but i am a printer and can exchange that but you don't need print but need fertiliser, the fertiliser guy needs printing; so you give me fruit i give fertiliser guy printing and he gives you fertiliser, everyone is happy. Bitcoin is in effect a token that allows you to trade with each other without cash and where there is a value difference. 

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August 17, 2018, 09:52:02 AM
 #49

Current market condition and situation is very bad for crypto world because more regulations and banning from all over the world, I think this situation will change soon, if you look at big companies all involved in ICO and crypto business, if more people knows about crypto and block chain tehcnology then it will be more advantage, Crypto should change in the world economy, who knows what will happen after 5 years in crypto currency?Its very disappointing to see how much it had drop even when we see it already tested the support level a lot of times but now it seem to test again the patience of the holders. I'm beginning to think the tokens are not worth holding but to be dumped right when it bubbles, dumping seem to be the real way to make money and last in crypto business.
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August 17, 2018, 12:41:31 PM
Last edit: August 17, 2018, 02:26:41 PM by d5000
 #50

If you have a product or service based online business ,accept fixed bitcoin prices with a refund.
For example,a customer buys your service or product for 50 USD worth of btc.The bitcoin price doubles after one week and he actually paid you $100.This would be really frustrating to him so you offer him to refund 50 USD.

we don't live in a perfect world which means this is not possible because it will simply be abused. this can actually become a way of earning money for some people if they wished. for instance looking at last year (2017) you can see bitcoin has been on the rise for at least 70% of the year. one way of speculating could have been speculating the rise then going to this particular shop and buying stuff. then when the price goes up you ask for refund. the result would be a lot of free items in your possession while you keep getting your money back.

I believe davis196's proposal to be worth considered to be added as an option by payment processors or by e-commerce plugins.

Obviously, it would be only something like a "promotional offer" and not the standard option in e-commerce. In the world of "physical goods", otherwise the risk for the merchant is too high.

But in the world of self-published digital goods, I can imagine it to work fine. Imagine you're selling an ebook for 0.001 BTC, with Bitcoin at $6000 ($6). You give your clients the option to pay back the difference if Bitcoin goes up in the next month (there must be a clear deadline). Now Bitcoin goes up to $8000. The merchant would now refund 2$ to the buyer. If he held the BTC, then he still made $6 profit. But even if he feared a crash and sold the 0.001 to get 6 USD, then he still has $4 per book (as the digital e-book copy doesn't cost anything).

The merchant could obviously set a limit in his terms & conditions, like "up to 50% of the item's value".

I think this is a cool idea, and would like to see an implementation.

Quote
usually the merchants who start accepting bitcoin payments increase their revenue automatically, they don't need additional incentive to bring in bitcoin paying customers.
Unfortunately, I heard lots of complaints from BTC-accepting businesses that in bull markets people are very hesitant to spend their BTC and that their revenue decreases in these periods. In 2017, the rising transaction fees were another factor, but in this case we have to hope for Lightning and sidechains.

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August 17, 2018, 12:56:56 PM
 #51

Spending Bitcoin is in my opinion the best way to help this ecosystem. Bitcoin is money and for that reason needs to circulate as money.

People quite often refrain from spending their coins because of the fear of losing out when the price starts increasing again. This can be easily avoided by buying back every single satoshi that you spent, and the best thing is that you can do this at any price (high or low). The more we spend our coins, the more merchants are willing to accept it, and for that reason the more utility value Bitcoin obtains. We are here together and should work together to make it a success.

I use my local fastfood delivery service that I pay for in Bitcoin. It is that fastfood isn't healthy to eat every day, otherwise just for the sake of using Bitcoin I would order every day.  Cheesy

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August 17, 2018, 01:12:13 PM
 #52

Bear markets can take a big bite out of long-term stockholders' returns. Witnessing a bear market for stocks doesn't have to be about suffering and loss, even though some cash losses may be unavoidable. Instead, investors should always try to see what is presented to them as an opportunity - a chance to learn about how markets respond to the events surrounding a bear market or any other extended period of dull returns. Read on to learn about how to weather a downturn.
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August 17, 2018, 01:21:04 PM
 #53

Thank you for the advice, because to be honest with the current situation of confusion and panic, a very drastic decline in market prices that have not found a deadlock makes me confused about what needs to be done, if it just stays and waits when the price rises maybe it is wrong and even makes panic.
I will try several ways that you suggest, hopefully getting a solution.
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August 17, 2018, 06:49:17 PM
 #54

I don't think you can stop a bear market like you also can't stop a parabolic rise in prices in a bull market. The market is people buying and selling with their emotions.

People like to buy rising prices for profit taking at a higher price and they also like to sell declining prices to cut profit losses. Markets snowball in both directions. Only when the last to sell is out does the trend reverses.


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August 17, 2018, 06:54:12 PM
 #55

I don't think you can stop a bear market like you also can't stop a parabolic rise in prices in a bull market. The market is people buying and selling with their emotions.

People like to buy rising prices for profit taking at a higher price and they also like to sell declining prices to cut profit losses. Markets snowball in both directions. Only when the last to sell is out does the trend reverses.

We almost have the same opinion. I don't think that we can stop the bear market if we will follow his advise. Is he a former networker? It seems that his advice were from a power upline of a networking company or multi level marketing to be specific. For now, the only things we can do to help the market is promote Bitcoin and keep on spreading legitimate good news.
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August 17, 2018, 06:56:07 PM
 #56

Many people are speculating if we're already reached the bottom of the bear market.

The truth is - that's not important. If we go up now from a strong $6000 base, or if we fall down to $3000 or even lower - that's peanuts. For sustainable growth, it doesn't matter.

What's important is that Bitcoin must become stronger as an ecosystem. You're fearing speculation and manipulation? The more Bitcoin gets used, the less influence they'll have. And you, the Bitcoin user - beginner, average Joe or advanced crypto geek - can do a lot for that.  Wink

Here are some examples:

  • The most important of all: USE Bitcoin. If there are services you regularly use and there is a business offering it for Bitcoin for a reasonable price: Give it a chance!
  • Are you a freelancer? Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work. Each good or service offered for Bitcoin can be seen as a buy order. So you're adding demand for Bitcoin without having to risk money (only perhaps some work, if you're really unlucky).
  • Even better: Try to offer a stable, guaranteed Bitcoin price for at least a day. That can bring even more stability into the market.
  • Or accept Lightning for micropayments, at least for a limited volume per day.
  • Are you employed, but your boss is open-minded and a geek? Offer him to pay a part of your salary in Bitcoin. (I would not take my whole salary, it's still too unstable, above all if you have a family.)
  • Do remittances directly with Bitcoin ore with Bitcoin-accepting services.
  • Lightning: Help with beta-testing! Lightning is one of the most interesting technologies if we want to see mass adoption. The more users testing and finally using it, the better!
  • Test and discuss alternative scaling solutions, like sidechains or similar concepts.
  • Become a Bitcoin/blockchain developer. The Core client may be a bit difficult to start with, but there are a lot of services that already are waiting for someone to write and/or improve it. The more devs, the better.
  • If you have an idea how to improve usability, then propose and discuss it! If you're a developer, try at least a proof of concept. Or simply implement it Wink. Bitcoin is an open source project, so you can do literally what you want with the protocol! (Added 8-16)

That's only a small list of some examples. Please add more in the discussion!

The more people realize that Bitcoin doesn't "grow" by magic, but by human contributions, the more stability and sustainability we'll achieve. And you don't have to be the new Satoshi to help. Just pay your pizza with BTC, for example. Wink

Do you have a recommendation what a mom who is on long time vacation cause of newborn baby can do with her investments in bitcoin to help the price for the coin to go upper? That's my current situation and for now I'm patiently waiting for bitcoin raise back to 20000 $ to cash out my savings.
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August 17, 2018, 08:22:16 PM
 #57

I don't think you can stop a bear market like you also can't stop a parabolic rise in prices in a bull market. The market is people buying and selling with their emotions.

People like to buy rising prices for profit taking at a higher price and they also like to sell declining prices to cut profit losses. Markets snowball in both directions. Only when the last to sell is out does the trend reverses.
You are describing the problem well: Speculation is still the main use case for Bitcoin.

The actions I'm describing is an intent to draft a solution for that, and these actions are important if the community wants to change the medium to long-term price evolution. By using Bitcoin as a currency, it would bring more stability to the markets, above all to the downside (decreasing probability for sharp crashes). Apart from that, rising adoption as a currency/payment system is also a source for good news, which could drive the price up, which is even good for speculators. Wink

For example, imagine a situation where more and more bigger companies issue statements that they re-introduced Bitcoin as a payment option and regret the decision to have dropped it. That would be regarded as "good news", right?

I don't think that we can stop the bear market if we will follow his advise. Is he a former networker? It seems that his advice were from a power upline of a networking company or multi level marketing to be specific.
Me? Nope. I never worked in that field.

Quote
For now, the only things we can do to help the market is promote Bitcoin and keep on spreading legitimate good news.
I don't agree, but I guess you'll know that Wink As I wrote to @bustedsynx, increased adoption is the best source for "good news".

Do you have a recommendation what a mom who is on long time vacation cause of newborn baby can do with her investments in bitcoin to help the price for the coin to go upper? That's my current situation and for now I'm patiently waiting for bitcoin raise back to 20000 $ to cash out my savings.
I'm sorry, I can't. If your intention is simply to hodl and then cash out, then all you could do perhaps is to support marketing activities (spread the word about Bitcoin etc.). I hope you didn't buy at $20K ...

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August 17, 2018, 09:31:20 PM
 #58

We should calm down and stop asking people to do this or that. If market movers want to contribute towards a long lasting bear market, which seems to be the case, nothing of what you mentioned will help in any way.

We have to remain realistic. People don't care about anything aside from seeing the price moon swing and that's really it. They don't care about using it as payment because there are more convenient fiat options they use.

People here are lazy and don't want to do anything other than looking at the price in the hope it's higher than the last time they looked it up. Just let the market do whatever it wants to do. It's all part of the game we're playing.

 
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August 18, 2018, 03:12:11 AM
 #59

Quote
usually the merchants who start accepting bitcoin payments increase their revenue automatically, they don't need additional incentive to bring in bitcoin paying customers.
Unfortunately, I heard lots of complaints from BTC-accepting businesses that in bull markets people are very hesitant to spend their BTC and that their revenue decreases in these periods. In 2017, the rising transaction fees were another factor, but in this case we have to hope for Lightning and sidechains.

please note that i was talking about regular businesses that accept bitcoin additionally not a business that only accepts bitcoin payment. for example a restaurant that was accepting fiat so far starts accepting bitcoin, they have increased their revenue.

as for bull market, i was actually discussing this a while ago here. those stats suggest that people were actually using bitcoin MORE during the bull market as price goes up.
and yeah higher fees were a bad thing last year but that is an exception case which hopefully won't happen again. but there is always a risk for it since bitcoin is susceptible to spam attacks no matter what you do.

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August 18, 2018, 03:26:15 AM
 #60

Ive never realize really that we can be part of making bitcoin sustainable buy using it whenever we can. I have been doing freelancing in designs and I just realized I could ask payment in bitcoin and if they do that, there will be discount. Thanks a lot for the idea.

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August 18, 2018, 06:35:09 AM
 #61

Really appreciable article and those points that you mentioned is really important and if all of this maintained properly something good can be hoped.
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August 18, 2018, 06:37:30 AM
 #62

these suggestions are very good but i don't think they can stop the bear market from happening now or in the future. simply because a bear market is also a part of the whole market cycles and it needs to happen from time to time as it happens in any other markets.
these suggestions in my opinion would increase the adoption and in the long run increase the price more than it already is happening.

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zhanyiguai261315
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August 18, 2018, 10:56:16 AM
 #63

I think the best way to stop the bear market is to make the cryptocurrency in the exchange less!
We put the cryptocurrency placed on the exchange into our own wallet, so that the cryptocurrency in circulation is reduced, and we have the opportunity to increase the price of cryptocurrency!
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August 19, 2018, 02:45:06 AM
 #64

these suggestions are very good but i don't think they can stop the bear market from happening now or in the future. simply because a bear market is also a part of the whole market cycles and it needs to happen from time to time as it happens in any other markets.
these suggestions in my opinion would increase the adoption and in the long run increase the price more than it already is happening.
Bear market indeed. Although at full cycle, we already stood almost one year in this phase. No one know when it is gonna bottom, only price action can tell.
You see that 6000 area is strong psychological support.
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August 19, 2018, 02:50:36 AM
 #65

Most of holders doing this thing.
Making deficit by holding coins move price up, i think is good what there are many holder.
But bears understand this policy and dumping price more and more to bust "truehodlers"

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August 19, 2018, 03:02:13 AM
 #66

I admit that those point you have mentioned are really important but it is quiet impossible to recover this market position properly by us, but little change may happen.
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August 19, 2018, 03:10:11 PM
 #67

Bitcoin has become an asset purely driven by speculation.
True. I would even say it hasn't "become" that, but it has been so since at least 2013. But is this really good for Bitcoin ? My intention is to (help to) change that.
It is not good for bitcoin,  but you or me can't change that. The entire community needs to come together for that, and that will never happen. One of the main reasons for bitcoin to become more of an asset, is because of the recession. I mean, who would even bother to give a fuck to use bitcoin as a currency when they can get rich from it? People are taking advantage of the entire decentralized system and it bit us right in the ass.

Quote
And more buy orders doesn't mean people are buying more. It can simply mean that one person is placing multiple buy orders and selling them immediately, or in a short while.
You misunderstood me. What you say is pretty obvious. I was mentioning merchants offering goods and services because they can be thought of like buy orders. The more merchants accepting BTC, the more demand for BTC. Even if they're using BitPay or a similar payment processor (and so they aren't "backing" Bitcoin themselves), BitPay's demand for Bitcoin increases in this case.
Even if Merchants start accepting bitcoin, the demand won't rise much. Hear me out here, not everybody likes to spend their bitcoin on normal stuff that you can buy with cash. A very few people actually like spending their bitcoin and only they will spend their bitcoin. Most of the what you'd call "hodlers" won't spend a damn satoshi.  What we need is to change the community's mindset, if that happens, everything would go accordingly , things will go how satoshi planned to.

ETF ruins bitcoin's purpose. It makes people think bitcoin is an actual asset(it qualifies as an asset, since currencies are also taken as assets in accounting terms but in economical terms it isn't).  You're using a centralized third party to get sheet of paper that says you own this much bitcoin. Do you see the amount of irony?
I mostly agree, but I wouldn't say that ETFs "ruin" Bitcoin's purpose. In reality, an ETF has nothing to do with Bitcoin's "value proposal". But an ETF can also not be prevented. If Wall Street wants to gamble with BTC, there's nothing we can do. However, I would not overestimate the influence an ETF can have. It could increase volatility temporally, but it could also be the other way around.
ETF makes bitcoin a literal asset, and by asset , I mean not in terms of cash but in terms of an investment. ETF for bitcoin is unnecessary. There's nothing we can do, but the SEC can, but those Wall Street bastards definitely have connections inside the SEC. Well, all I can say is, fuck the bitcoin ETF, and fuck the Wall Street bastards. Angry

People are treating bitcoin as a stock, and not as a currency,like I said.
And that's not good, like I said Grin
So let's fucking rage! Grin

And if you still don't realize that bitcoin is only driven by news(along with demand and supply) nowadays, you need to start catching up. Last year's bitcoin gold forks drove people to insane amounts to buy bitcoin and Jamie Dimon's criticism drove people to crash bitcoin, if that isn't news driven speculation, then I don't know what is.
Again. There is a lot of news driven speculation, yes. The purpose of this thread is to change something. If you want to continue with the news-driven, stock-like boom-bust cycles it's up to you but then BTC will bubble and crash again and again. The community should, imo, change its mentality a bit. Less get-rich-quick scheme, more currency usage. Then Bitcoin will eventually grow organically. It's true, we need some technical solutions to achieve mass adoption, but LN is slowly maturing and in 1-2 years it can be stable enough for everyday usage.
A little bit? People need to stop looking at bitcoin like "Get rich scheme", LN is too slow, and not many people are into it, almost 75% of the "community" don't know what it is.


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August 20, 2018, 09:13:42 AM
 #68

I admit that those point you have mentioned are really important but it is quiet impossible to recover this market position properly by us, but little change may happen.

if we want to contribute for market recovery, small thing we can do is not panic with market condition. Panic will make market more worst and price will more drop. The best we can do i think is just keep patient with our investment and hold it

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August 20, 2018, 09:55:51 AM
 #69

very good advice from the author! really if they adhere to then we could push the market up

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August 20, 2018, 10:03:04 AM
 #70

Yes, I agree Bitcoin must be balanced with its use as a currency that is widely used throughout the world, but this has encountered obstacles such as the prohibition of several countries to Bitcoin and not many shops / shopping places that accept Bitcoin as a legal payment instrument. if this problem is solved, I'm sure Bitcoin won't depend on crypto trading as a price benchmark.
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August 20, 2018, 10:57:33 AM
 #71

I'm not afraid of any speculation in this market, even if the BTC will cost $ 3000 then I do not see anything wrong with it in the future everything will be fine. Especially on these speculations we can make good money
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August 20, 2018, 04:10:44 PM
 #72

@pitiflin: I agree with most of what you wrote, only that I'm a bit less pessimistic, it seems.

Only two short remarks:

I mean, who would even bother to give a fuck to use bitcoin as a currency when they can get rich from it?
Maybe because otherwise it could fall again into complete irrelevance, e.g. 100$=1 BTC? Then they would get poor from it Wink

Quote
Even if Merchants start accepting bitcoin, the demand won't rise much. Hear me out here, not everybody likes to spend their bitcoin on normal stuff that you can buy with cash. A very few people actually like spending their bitcoin and only they will spend their bitcoin. Most of the what you'd call "hodlers" won't spend a damn satoshi.
While you're right that a massive adoption would need a mentality change, I guess a massive usability boost (by easy to use LN apps, for example) can be a significant factor for that to happen.

And for the hodlers not wanting to spend their "precious" BTC that could make them rich: Have you seen davis196's proposal for merchants to give a kind of "refund bonus" in bull markets? That could end in a win-win situation (for buyer/BTC user and merchant), see my comment on it.

There are use cases for Bitcoin where it already really excels, but still isn't used massively. The biggest area imo is remittances (I have used it often for that purpose as I've a migration background). I guess spreading the word to use BTC-based services instead of Western Union and friends is a good idea as people can save a large part of the fees.



For the interested: I've found a nice article in German which could have been written by me on exactly that topic:
Warum es gerade jetzt mehr Bitcoin-Nutzer als Bitcoin-Spekulanten braucht.

Resumed: Bitcoin's value uf use is tied to adoption and acceptance, so the best thing you can do to ensure that Bitcoin will be worth something in the future is to use it as a currency, test LN and spread the word among merchants and businesses who could accept Bitcoin.

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August 20, 2018, 04:32:35 PM
 #73

The word trend was once that gave us a very big profit, i agree with you that this will probably be our baseline or worse $3000 . As of today less people tend to buy btc becaue many people already purchased...as time goes by the price will definitely be stable compared today. As btc will be destributed thoroughly ,which means that only few people would sell their btc because they can use it anyway in the market, and only few people would buy cause they already have, this may create balance which will result to the equilibrium cost of btc. I hope it will happen sooner.
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August 20, 2018, 07:41:57 PM
 #74

Through the points you are talking about and convey to other people so that they try to work accordingly but it is hard for the people of those countries who haven't yet legalized Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. However, they are also less likely to affect the market right now, so people who can should definitely try to help mass adoption of cryptos so that we don't have to see such bearish trend again.
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August 20, 2018, 07:48:54 PM
 #75

Of course I can believe that everyone of us is responsible for the things that are going on in this market but also I can tell if you will do those things it doesn't mean that anybody else will do so you will be at this disvantage position.
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August 20, 2018, 11:25:12 PM
 #76

@pitiflin: I agree with most of what you wrote, only that I'm a bit less pessimistic, it seems.
I wholeheartedly agree that I am a pessimist, but there's reason here, explained below:

Maybe because otherwise it could fall again into complete irrelevance, e.g. 100$=1 BTC? Then they would get poor from it Wink
Think about it, if people start using bitcoin as a currency, there would be more supply for it, since it has a high monetary value. But the demand will be very low. We would see the same blackmarketing strategies applied here, this time its only legal. And an economic theory/principle known as chain effect will occur here. Either the price will go down and the demand will go up. Or the price will stay as is, and the supply would fall down, causing hoarding, or as in this case, hodling, and demand will go up. Either way, price will go down, if mass adoption occurs.

While you're right that a massive adoption would need a mentality change, I guess a massive usability boost (by easy to use LN apps, for example) can be a significant factor for that to happen.

And for the hodlers not wanting to spend their "precious" BTC that could make them rich: Have you seen davis196's proposal for merchants to give a kind of "refund bonus" in bull markets? That could end in a win-win situation (for buyer/BTC user and merchant), see my comment on it.

There are use cases for Bitcoin where it already really excels, but still isn't used massively. The biggest area imo is remittances (I have used it often for that purpose as I've a migration background). I guess spreading the word to use BTC-based services instead of Western Union and friends is a good idea as people can save a large part of the fees.
This whole refund  bonus would only work in a short term, couple of years later(more or less the same), people will again go back to point 1 and become hodlers and bitcoin into an investment. Something that could really change the situation is, satoshi coming back. He is the one who would be able to make people realize what bitcoin's actual purpose is.


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August 21, 2018, 03:06:26 AM
 #77

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August 21, 2018, 05:50:41 PM
 #78

Think about it, if people start using bitcoin as a currency, there would be more supply for it, since it has a high monetary value. But the demand will be very low.
If Bitcoin is used more as a currency, then there should be both more supply and more demand for it:
- Users (buyers) are basically "selling" their bitcoin -> supply goes up
- But they can only buy things for BTC if there is a merchant accepting it. A merchant is equivalent to a "buy order". => so every merchant accepting BTC drives up the demand

This means that the relation, at the end, becomes equilibrated. Bitcoin would simply circulate.

Quote
And an economic theory/principle known as chain effect will occur here. Either the price will go down and the demand will go up. Or the price will stay as is, and the supply would fall down, causing hoarding, or as in this case, hodling, and demand will go up. Either way, price will go down, if mass adoption occurs.

The only scenario where I can see supply going up without demand "catching up" by merchants and equilibrating it, is when we have a phase (e.g. a year) when Bitcoin becomes massively used as a currency, and then suddenly there are less merchants accepting it. In this case Bitcoin holders would be forced to HODL or to sell them for fiat, which may drive down the price.

But I consider this scenario to not be very likely, because when customers show a high "intention to buy things with BTC", merchants would view that as an opportunity to sell more goods and services. The only reason for a "massive merchant exit" to happen, would be when stricter regulations in an important market come into effect.

Quote
This whole refund  bonus would only work in a short term, couple of years later(more or less the same), people will again go back to point 1 and become hodlers and bitcoin into an investment.
Sorry, I don't understand your point here. It's true that this refund policy would only work in bull markets, but in bear markets the problem of people hoarding BTC is less pronunciated (in fact, we saw more usage "as a currency" in bear markets, e.g. in 2014-15). In bear markets this "merchant policy" is better suited. Merchants could combine both.

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August 21, 2018, 10:19:36 PM
 #79

This is a very good proposal and the best thing that everyone can do. Bitcoin should be used more as a solution of payment instead of holding it as an investment. An online business can easily accept the bitcoin as payment. Though it depends on the country and its governments choice. I think that, to stop the bear market using bitcoin is the most important thing.
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August 21, 2018, 10:50:37 PM
 #80

The proposal seemed like very interesting.  An online business can easily use the bitcoin as payment. Though it depends on the country and the choice of its government and the regulations. Using bitcoin is the most important thing to stop the bear market.
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August 21, 2018, 11:06:58 PM
 #81

I would like to add one more aspect to your amazing post. It goes really close to being a developer or maybe donating to the cause.

What about hosting a node to support the Bitcoin network?. It comes with certain costs and measurements you need to take, but you will be for sure helping the cause. Make sure to read carefully before making the decision though. If Bitcoin is illegal in your country you could get in trouble, also if you have limited data plan you could pass it since it uses Bandwidth, of course. However, if you have some spare Gbs a month, you could measure the data consumed and stop doing it for the month when it reach a certain limit.

The information is right here: https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node
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August 21, 2018, 11:13:25 PM
 #82

If Bitcoin is used more as a currency, then there should be both more supply and more demand for it:
- Users (buyers) are basically "selling" their bitcoin -> supply goes up
- But they can only buy things for BTC if there is a merchant accepting it. A merchant is equivalent to a "buy order". => so every merchant accepting BTC drives up the demand

This means that the relation, at the end, becomes equilibrated. Bitcoin would simply circulate.
There are various factors that might influence demand and supply, mere buying and selling won't affect it. Also, if buyers are selling, supply doesn't really go up. Merchants accepting bitcoin won't increase demand, people have to buy something from that merchant. This is a highly debatable topic, and using the old-school micro/macroeconomic theories don't really go hand in hand with bitcoin, there needs to be a crypto-economic theory. Because the theories that I am aware of, are contradicting with bitcoin's nature if I am being honest. Its confusing too, to compare and put down a hypothetical scenario and find how the equilibrium is attained.

The only scenario where I can see supply going up without demand "catching up" by merchants and equilibrating it, is when we have a phase (e.g. a year) when Bitcoin becomes massively used as a currency, and then suddenly there are less merchants accepting it. In this case Bitcoin holders would be forced to HODL or to sell them for fiat, which may drive down the price.

But I consider this scenario to not be very likely, because when customers show a high "intention to buy things with BTC", merchants would view that as an opportunity to sell more goods and services. The only reason for a "massive merchant exit" to happen, would be when stricter regulations in an important market come into effect.
There are many more scenarios than that, I don't want to go more into it, because this becomes more of an educational confusing debate, and there'll be no winner at the end. Crypto-economics is really complicated, and I am still trying to use my brain to try relating them with the micro-macro economic theories.

Sorry, I don't understand your point here. It's true that this refund policy would only work in bull markets, but in bear markets the problem of people hoarding BTC is less pronunciated (in fact, we saw more usage "as a currency" in bear markets, e.g. in 2014-15). In bear markets this "merchant policy" is better suited. Merchants could combine both.
What I meant was, people will stop using the refund back policies, there'd someother marketing strategy by then, and whatever happens, the community would go back to hodling again. Like you said, people were spending more in 2014-15, but when prices started to rise, they started hodling it. If ever, merchants, the more popular ones start accepting crypto, then the price will rise, at the same time, people will start stocking it, and sell later, and before you realize it, bitcoin becomes an investment again.

I really wish I could explain this using some graphs, I can, but not everyone would be able to understand it, unless they know the basics.

It feels good, that people are actually having conversations here. The spam is too much, but am happy that some people are at least bothering to reply.


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August 21, 2018, 11:31:33 PM
 #83

Well the proposed is good. As a payment solution bitcoin should be used for. An online business can accept the bitcoin as payment. Though, the regulations of different country differ. But it is true that, using BTC is one of the most important thing to stop the bear market.
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August 22, 2018, 01:14:39 AM
 #84

If 20% of this forum member using one of what OP propose then i believe btc will going to rise more than ATH . but i would like to add a point that if anyone do not have the OP criteria then we can help by spreading the word of optimistic in our real-life about future of BTC. More people aware of this thing would give a great outcome
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August 22, 2018, 04:49:04 AM
 #85

There are various factors that might influence demand and supply, mere buying and selling won't affect it.
I disagree with the last words of your sentence. "Mere buying and selling" would lead to more supply and more demand at the same time - in other words: to more liquidity.

Imagine you are fearing a crash and prices at the exchanges are beginning to descend. If you panic now and sell your coins at an exchange, you will find yourself "deepening" the crash because you take out a buy order and chances are high the price falls further down. If you, instead, buy something for the BTC, then there are three things that can happen: 1) the merchant sells the coins because he's panicking too, 2) he holds, 3) he spends them.

Case 3 (spending), in a "Bitcoin ecosystem" where you can buy almost everything for BTC would be always an attractive option, and it would not have a "deepening" effect on the crash at all - it would only make Bitcoin circulate.

The more attractive case 3 is, the stronger the stabilizing effect.

You are maybe right that the nature of BItcoin's distribution/reward policy (with fixed total supply) may have also a strong influence, but supply and demand theories still apply, at least explaining parts of the price movements.

Quote
What I meant was, people will stop using the refund back policies, there'd someother marketing strategy by then, and whatever happens, the community would go back to hodling again. Like you said, people were spending more in 2014-15, but when prices started to rise, they started hodling it. If ever, merchants, the more popular ones start accepting crypto, then the price will rise, at the same time, people will start stocking it, and sell later, and before you realize it, bitcoin becomes an investment again.
OK, I understand your point now about "increasing prices after more acceptance". Yes, there is always a danger that such a "revert to hodling" could happen.

But if merchants offer davis196's "refund policy", then it becomes attractive to spend the BTC even in bull markets. You can ensure you won't be hit by a sudden crash, but you also will profit if the price goes further up - and then you get some Bitcoins back and the things you bought. And merchants would profit from high selling volume, too - so they will continue to offer these refunds, until the market turns to bearish again.

I can imagine this "scheme" to become a real alternative to hodling. And this would have also a secondary effect: As it's always possible that merchants sell the BTC at some time for fiat (e.g. to take out part of the risk) then there would be also more sell orders on fiat/crypto exchanges, mitigating the "FOMO" and increasing liquid supply. Above all I can imagine this to happen in the final stages of the bull market, when it becomes clear that a "mania" is taking place and sudden crashes are to be expected. A merchant with sustainable price policies would then probably sell as fast as possible, even suspending the refund policy until the mania has ended.

There's not all said, and maybe there are other effects, but overall I'm sure that usage would stabilize the price evolution - but because of the effects you mentioned, bubbles couldn't fully be prevented.

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August 22, 2018, 06:10:39 AM
 #86

I just want to add. If you are a business owner, you should seriously consider accepting Bitcoin as a payment option and it must not stop there. You should offer "Bitcoin Only" specials for people who paid with bitcoins, because you want to motivate people to pay with bitcoins and not cash or any other payment option.  Wink

Bitcoiners should also support these merchants and retailers, because they are supporting us. ^hmmmm^

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August 22, 2018, 07:10:37 PM
 #87

bitcoin are more secure and potential but now bitcoin price are fall down. i think do not need to worry because it will come back and turn around immediately. it will do something good for investor. in my opinion it is very good opportunity to invest here.
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August 22, 2018, 07:34:34 PM
 #88

thanks a lot for the advice of the author! I think many newcomers will find it interesting to read about what an intelligent and competent investor thinks about the situation on the market Smiley

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August 22, 2018, 08:09:12 PM
 #89

i think it is good opportunity to invest here.bitcoin are more profitable and potential. it will increasing their price and make more profit. it will come back and turn around in future.
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August 22, 2018, 08:54:48 PM
 #90

I just want to add. If you are a business owner, you should seriously consider accepting Bitcoin as a payment option and it must not stop there. You should offer "Bitcoin Only" specials for people who paid with bitcoins, because you want to motivate people to pay with bitcoins and not cash or any other payment option.  Wink
Good point - Bitcoin-only promotions would surely help to increase the Bitcoin e-commerce usage.

The goal would be to create attractive conditions for rational Bitcoin holders. They should never think they lose an opportunity if they spend their "precious" Bitcoins. If there is a promotion of this kind - let's say a 10% discount - and it's on an item the Bitcoin holder usually buys, then he could have the following "thought stream" (think of this stereotypical image of an angel and a devil in his brain):

Angel: OK, I buy this item now.
Devil: But what if afterwards the Bitcoin price increases?
Angel: It's 10% cheaper than normal. And I need it.
Devil: I've still doubts.
Angel: Well, let's calculate. Tomorrow I could buy back the Bitcoins. And then I would only lose if the Bitcoin goes up 10% until tomorrow.
Devil: But Bitcoin is so volatile ...
Angel: The probability that the price goes up for 10% in a single day is very low. In fact, this happened only in very few days of the last two years, mainly in the 2017 bubble.
Devil: But what if that happens just today?
Angel: It could also go down 10%. Then I have lost 20% - 10% in price decrease and 10% in opportunity cost because I didn't buy that offer with the 10% discount.
Devil: *disappears*

Wink

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August 22, 2018, 08:58:58 PM
 #91

Bitcoin are more profitable and potential. it will make more profit in future. now it is still more than 54% in the crypto market. its future are good. it will do something good for investor in future.
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August 22, 2018, 09:00:47 PM
 #92

This is a great advice and I hope everyone will see this work. We are preparing for a bright future do bitcoin must also prepare for that and if we see a great support level maybe bitcoin can now may a good run. We really need a strong technology that can bring us to the future, let’s believe on bitcoin.

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August 22, 2018, 09:31:06 PM
 #93

Nobody what to spend bitcoin people see it as a investment/store of value I going to get the flood of well i use bitcoin for spending on items bullshit.People talk a big game bit i know from first hand knowledge people do not support crypto by spending it  .I am the owner of https://allforcrypto.com/  and u can give a guess how many items i sold  this  month zero  .How many people posted there items for sale on it zero .A simple website to use easier then then openbazaar  and bitfity for the average joe zero interest .The ability to easy promote your products using social media no interest.



Guessing nobody here will put there money where there mouth is then .

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August 22, 2018, 10:28:57 PM
 #94

The market has already started to grow. We just have to be a little more patience. If every body hold their patience and coins the market will definitely will rise again and there is no doubt.
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August 23, 2018, 03:47:00 AM
Last edit: August 23, 2018, 04:31:58 AM by d5000
 #95

People talk a big game bit i know from first hand knowledge people do not support crypto by spending it  .I am the owner of https://allforcrypto.com/  and u can give a guess how many items i sold  this  month zero  .How many people posted there items for sale on it zero .
I understand your anger, and what you describe here is exactly the problem we have to solve.

Apart from the currently low eagerness of people to spend their BTC, there is another problem: finding merchants isn't as easy as it should be. Your website, for example, is pretty difficult to find using Google.

There are, mainly, these bigger merchant lists I know:

- 99bitcoins - relatively frequently updated, but very confusing and without any categorization; no altcoins
- Coinmap - nicely designed but often outdated; no altcoins
- CoinPayments - ok, with altcoins, but has less merchants than expected.
- there was also a list in the Bitcoin wiki, but I don't find it now.

So one of the conclusions is: We would need a good, regularly updated search engine finding merchants that accept Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. I have seen some newer web portals but no one had more than ~200-300 entries (most had less than 100).

(Regarding "put your money where your mouth is": I use Bitcoin to pay about a tenth of my montly expenses. I would like to use it for more, but in my region/country there are not too many options to spend it.)

(Added the three link lists/portals to the OP. If you know more, please post them!)

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August 23, 2018, 04:19:41 AM
 #96

I think holding on for a long time won't help bitcoin get out of the bear market, because Bitcoin requires high demand to achieve maximum value, one of the contributions that the Bitcoin community can make is to try to use bitcoin as much as we can by making payments in bitcoin or by getting salary and other income on bitcoin. In this way, the price of bitcoin won't depend much on the trading market because it will have the back support of people who use it as a currency.
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August 23, 2018, 09:33:14 AM
 #97

I think the market is now going to move upward. All we can that wait for the full recovery.So I just hold the token for the Christmas because end of this year it will increase more.
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August 23, 2018, 09:43:11 AM
 #98

It seems to me, the best way to stop the drop of bitcoin now, is simply to explain to people what bitcoin is and how it works. Many still believe that this is just a pyramid and do not understand the value of blochain technology.
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August 23, 2018, 10:15:18 AM
 #99

I agree with you, and these are some very important points raised.. If people start making use of bitcoin for even the smallest daily transactions they make, they'd be helping the system by creating more demand. This was, it will gain more ground and acceptance.

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August 23, 2018, 01:55:58 PM
 #100

Yes, investors expect price increases like magic in bitcoin. But it is not always possible. In many cases, Bitcoin's trust will lead you to the next profit. And now people are accepting Bitcoin all over the world.
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August 23, 2018, 05:55:09 PM
 #101

I think Bitcoin's success is his acceptability. Most people around the world now believe in Bitcoin that means that it is not worth the price, in faith.
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August 23, 2018, 06:34:26 PM
 #102

That's a useful post. Yes, I completely agree with you. To end this bearish market, we need to stop getting panicked and try to focus on hodling our coins. We need to use Bitcoin more and try to help it to get more exposure.
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August 23, 2018, 06:39:55 PM
 #103

Yeah, you're right. Where is the price of Bitcoin, how much has been increased, how much has been reduced it doesn't matter but the fact that how people are accepting it and how much the acceptability has increased. In that case, Bitcoin is quite successful.
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August 23, 2018, 06:47:05 PM
 #104

Many people are speculating if we're already reached the bottom of the bear market.

The truth is - that's not important. If we go up now from a strong $6000 base, or if we fall down to $3000 or even lower - that's peanuts. For sustainable growth, it doesn't matter.

What's important is that Bitcoin must become stronger as an ecosystem. You're fearing speculation and manipulation? The more Bitcoin gets used, the less influence the "big whales" will have. And you, the Bitcoin user - beginner, average Joe or advanced crypto geek - can do a lot for that.  Wink

Here are some examples:

  • The most important of all: USE Bitcoin. If there are services you regularly use and there is a business offering it for Bitcoin for a reasonable price: Give it a chance! Lists/portals with some options are here, here, and here. Or directly use a decentralized marketplace like OpenBazaar.
  • Are you a freelancer or own a business? Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work. Each good or service offered for Bitcoin can be seen as a buy order. So you're adding demand for Bitcoin without having to risk money (only perhaps some work, if you're really unlucky). You could increase your revenue offering Bitcoin-only promotions/specials - then maybe you could even convince some stubborn hodlers.
  • Even better: Try to offer a stable, guaranteed Bitcoin price for at least a day. That can bring even more stability into the market.
  • Or accept Lightning for micropayments, at least for a limited volume per day.
  • Are you employed, but your boss is open-minded and a geek? Offer him to pay a part of your salary in Bitcoin. (I would not take my whole salary, it's still too unstable, above all if you have a family.)
  • Do remittances directly with Bitcoin or with Bitcoin-accepting services.
  • Lightning: Help with beta-testing! Lightning is one of the most interesting technologies if we want to see mass adoption. The more users testing and finally using it, the better!
  • Test and discuss alternative scaling solutions, like sidechains or similar concepts.
  • Become a Bitcoin/blockchain developer. The Core client may be a bit difficult to start with, but there are a lot of services that already are waiting for someone to write and/or improve it. The more devs, the better.
  • If you have an idea how to improve usability, then propose and discuss it! If you're a developer, try at least a proof of concept. Or simply implement it Wink. Bitcoin is an open source project, so you can do literally what you want with the protocol! (Added 8-16)

That's only a small list of some examples. Please add more in the discussion!

The more people realize that Bitcoin doesn't "grow" by magic, but by human contributions, the more stability and sustainability we'll achieve. And you don't have to be the new Satoshi to help. Just pay your pizza with BTC, for example. Wink

I perfectly support your assertion. For bitcoin to be able to stand against manipulations and hence fear of losing investment; the best thing is to encourage maximum use and to make it a stronger ecosystem. This would make bitcoin practically impossible to be manipulated by the so called "Big whales".
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August 23, 2018, 06:47:53 PM
 #105

It will be a great thing if the online business owners start accepting payments in crypto currencies. This might help the market too.
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August 23, 2018, 07:06:36 PM
 #106

BTC will not go up if we just HODL only, we need to invest it too, treat it like a currency to make ti go up.
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August 23, 2018, 07:25:32 PM
 #107

We do need to invest in the coins too. HOLDing them will not do and it is not enough to make the market hit the bull run again.
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August 23, 2018, 07:34:34 PM
 #108

Many big company like tesla are recently agree to accept bitcoin for payment but still there are some complication to payment with BTC in local market because it's more fluctuated.
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August 24, 2018, 01:48:27 AM
 #109

Yes, using bitcoin and the other cryptocurrencies with a large scale will pump the value in the market because everyone wants to buy it.
The supply and demand law plays well here. If you want to end the bear market, you will need to spread more words about cryptocurrency.

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August 24, 2018, 07:45:17 PM
Last edit: August 24, 2018, 11:03:04 PM by kolsernik
 #110

You are right. Bitcoin today has such a price and popularity thanks to people who believe in its future. In the crypto-currency community, one should be guided by the rule,, if not I who then,, A large number of ICO startups already now need a blockchain of developers. I think this is the most demanded work for the near future.
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August 26, 2018, 05:54:28 PM
 #111

I am a freelancher and most of the time I accept bitcoin as my payment and that's make me pleasure and also the sender felt happy because they not need to pay transaction fee. But if I want buy a cup of coffee from any street shop that's still not possible to pay by BTC.
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August 26, 2018, 07:17:16 PM
 #112

Still there many restriction to buy anything by BTC. But there are many group and company they help people to buy anything by BTC. But hope in future we can buy anything directky by BTC.
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August 26, 2018, 07:28:39 PM
 #113

You are right. Bitcoin today has such a price and popularity thanks to people who believe in its future. In the crypto-currency community, one should be guided by the rule,, if not I who then,, A large number of ICO startups already now need a blockchain of developers. I think this is the most demanded work for the near future.

There's not a whole lot of substance behind all this 'blockchain' stuff. Bitcoin is great and useful. But there's often no justification for using a blockchain in many of these projects. It's just a buzzword used by people trying to cash in.
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August 26, 2018, 07:58:08 PM
 #114

I agree with you, the more mass adoption we get on the bitcoin ecosystem, the less the whales are able to manipulate the price. And the call begins with us.
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August 26, 2018, 08:14:46 PM
 #115

nice one and i strongly agree with you. we all need to come together and do these things you listed down so as to help stop this bear market. bitcoin has so much to offer but it needs the effort of all to achieve all the amazing potentials it has. i believe if we do all listed, we will see the growth of bitcoin in the coming months.

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August 26, 2018, 09:55:37 PM
 #116

This can be work good for stop the bear market I do this and it is worked.Bitcoin can be very helpful for any one who wants to work for it. We can work for it.
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August 27, 2018, 03:16:23 AM
 #117

I basically agree with you! In addition to the examples you mentioned above! I still want to add a little! That is the use of Bitcoin ATMs.
As there are 3,503 bitcoin ATMs across the globe, and 99.9% support Bitcoin, if we sell and buy bitcoin in ATMs, it will show the circulation and demand of bitcoin.
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August 27, 2018, 11:25:11 AM
 #118

sure i recognize what you suggest. in case you need the market bull run, shall we use bitcoin more. If many peoples the usage of bitcoin, then the needs of bitcoin might be boom. while the demands increase, the fee will increase as well. The cryptocurrency market want extra real users in their day by day.
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August 27, 2018, 11:57:40 AM
 #119

Much motivating and guiding post.
I agree that if more and more members here start trading in bitcoin while making payments / receipts transactions; it's demand will automatically increase.  And as a result the price will not fall in case it is still unable to go up.  
So bear trend can be checked by just involvement of the masses.

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August 27, 2018, 12:00:33 PM
 #120

I think that it will stop in the nearest future. I am not sure as I am not an expert but it seems to me that this will happen soon. As I know the intuition never lets me down and you should believe in this too
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August 27, 2018, 12:12:39 PM
 #121

These are some decent advices. But I think people are not that interested in participating in the crypto world. Most of us are here just to make some quick money.
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August 27, 2018, 07:52:33 PM
 #122

This [the "refund" model] indeed is a  very interesting idea. This could be a good marketing strategy but requires vendors to save funds in BTC which is not always possible because they need money to buy merchandise and operate.
That's true, there are logistic challenges. I believe the refund model would work best with virtual goods where the merchant has no cost for a single copy - e.g. software, movies or music, because the risk then becomes more manageable. In this case, he could simply keep the BTC he received until the "deadline" for the refund expires. I wouldn't chose a deadline of more than a week, as the reason for that model is aimed to combat hoarding because of FOMO, and typically the buyer would be able to re-buy the BTC like explained here.

With a deadline of a few days, the merchant had a "delay" in receiving the funds, but it wouldn't be much higher than e.g. the delay for bank transfers, and much less than for the time he must calculate in which "chargeback fraud" could occur with some payment methods. So it would be still attractive.

Quote
Tp the OP and everyone else: educate people around you about crypto in general, tel them how it works in simple and understandable way. When people understand the tech , they wont be afraid of it.
Good suggestion, I'll add it to the OP. For a long time, even most specialized IT journalists didn't really understand how Bitcoin works, since 2017 it's slightly better. ELI5 is still a challenge, though.

(Finally, a short, but meaningful post worth to be answered. Spammers, rot in hell!)

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August 27, 2018, 10:06:07 PM
 #123

If you have a product or service based online business ,accept fixed bitcoin prices with a refund.
For example,a customer buys your service or product for 50 USD worth of btc.The bitcoin price doubles after one week and he actually paid you $100.This would be really frustrating to him so you offer him to refund 50 USD.You kinda lose money,but you get a loyal customer,who is paying with btc.  
Anyway,the bear market won't stop just because a bunch of people started accepting bitcoin payments.
And what happens if after the same period of time Bitcoin loses 50% of its value, do you call the customer back to pay for the 50% loss?
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August 28, 2018, 12:26:04 AM
 #124

If you have a product or service based online business ,accept fixed bitcoin prices with a refund.
For example,a customer buys your service or product for 50 USD worth of btc.The bitcoin price doubles after one week and he actually paid you $100.This would be really frustrating to him so you offer him to refund 50 USD.You kinda lose money,but you get a loyal customer,who is paying with btc.  
Anyway,the bear market won't stop just because a bunch of people started accepting bitcoin payments.
And what happens if after the same period of time Bitcoin loses 50% of its value, do you call the customer back to pay for the 50% loss?
That's exactly what I wanted to address in the last post. Obviously, that call won't happen Wink

To be more clear: This refund model can only work in two circumstances:
1) The product is a digital good with no marginal cost for the merchant. In this case, the offer can be unlimited - there's no risk for the merchant if he stores the BTC until the deadline; however, his revenue may be cut by 50% if Bitcoin really crashes for that extent until the deadline.
2) The offer is a "special sale offer" with limited stock - in this case, it's like if you give a discount - the goal is to acquire new clients, not really to take massive profit from these sales.

In the end, it becomes an exercise in probability/risk calculation. For example, it's likely that the danger for a 10% crash in a week is under 5%. The danger for a 50% crash in a week should be well under 1% (that happens approximately once per year, or less). So it becomes, to a certain extent, part of your entrepreneurial risk.

If you think the probability for a crash is increasing (e.g. in a situation like in December 2017 where the price sometimes grew 20% per week or more), then you could end these "refund special offers" until the crash happens.

PlusOne88
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August 28, 2018, 01:19:58 AM
 #125

This is good as I actually see these as good possibilities and opportunities for bitcoin to move up. Using bitcoin regularly in businesses and other transactions could create a rise in demands that will result in higher prices and better bitcoin economy. It would be better for bitcoin if they could atleast sustain a day of stability. In this manner maybe users will not be afraid of doing transactions within the given day.

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August 28, 2018, 01:41:53 AM
 #126

An absolutely great share here d5000, we need more people like you.

Quite sensible suggestions, practical and does not require any advanced mathematical prowess to decipher. You made everything as simple as it could get.

And i am glad that here exist a post that says "use/spend your bitcoin" when many would say HODL! I have always believed the same, you want bitcoin to work out? Then work on it. Earn and spend. Without utilization, bitcoin as a whole becomes irrelevant. Its primal design as a system of payment needs to be fulfilled for us to see bitcoin grow and stabilize.

Again, thank you for the wonderful post.
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August 28, 2018, 02:22:21 AM
 #127

That's quite remarkable OP but users still hate the fees. It does not work on physical stores when a buyer who uses bitcoin just want to get a piece of toilet paper. The devs can do a lot better than us users and that is by fixing all the damned issues that all of us are complaining about.
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October 16, 2018, 02:17:27 PM
 #128

Using bitcoin is the most important thing should be done for stopping the bear market. About 10 years has passed since the creation of bitcoin and Bitcoin must be used for buys and sells more.  Otherwise it's a useless thing.
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October 16, 2018, 04:21:09 PM
 #129

Thanks you or your sharing experience, it is so helpful for new user to start
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