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Author Topic: Nice Job Blocking the Truth BitcoinExpress  (Read 2380 times)
FlipPro
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October 19, 2011, 08:57:45 AM
 #1

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48975.0

This is typical of him, we start having a nice little discussion where MANY questions are being answered, and many of the SMEARS he's been pushing down everyone's throats are being refuted, and what does he do folks? He LOCKS the thread...

Typical BCX...

And the community follows this guy?

http://bitcoinwatch.com

Take a look at the price everyone, take a hard look at this clown, and then please I beg of you take a hard look at yourselves.

This a problem within our own community, and it needs to be solved. If not I can promise that progress will be hindered my friends..

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BitcoinPorn
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October 19, 2011, 09:01:43 AM
 #2

Who is included in this "community" and what does one have to do, or what things should one avoid, to be a 'follower'?  Please be specific as possible with links as reference.  Thanks.

johnj
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October 19, 2011, 09:02:44 AM
 #3

He locked a thread that had gone way off-topic, and half of the thread had degenerated into personal attacks.  Locking off-topic threads reduces clutter.

This topic needs to be in Meta.

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FlipPro
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October 19, 2011, 09:07:15 AM
 #4

He locked a thread that had gone way off-topic, and half of the thread had degenerated into personal attacks.  Locking off-topic threads reduces clutter.

This topic needs to be in Meta.

Exactly, so start your own thread as you did here and continue. Once again have a good night and all this is in fun and spirited debate, don't take any of it personal.

;-)

BCX
I want this fun and spirited debate to continue BCX. This gets us closer to the truth, which is what I am most ultimately after. You unfortunately bring many LIES, which is why its hard to trust ANYTHING you say. Open the thread back up, lets have this debate.

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October 19, 2011, 09:10:10 AM
 #5

Who is included in this "community" and what does one have to do, or what things should one avoid, to be a 'follower'?  Please be specific as possible with links as reference.  Thanks.
We are all part of this "community" like it or not. It is our responsibility to regulate, and much has not been done on that front. We haven't regulated on the main client, we haven't advanced on the priorities of the community, and we haven't disowned clowns like BCX. This community has NO STRUCTURE, and the really sad part is that NO ONE lets anyone lead, therefore nothing ever gets done.

It's a sad reality that I am slowly starting to want no part of...

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October 19, 2011, 09:19:54 AM
 #6

Who is included in this "community" and what does one have to do, or what things should one avoid, to be a 'follower'?  Please be specific as possible with links as reference.  Thanks.
We are all part of this "community" like it or not. It is our responsibility to regulate, and much has not been done on that front. We haven't regulated on the main client, we haven't advanced on the priorities of the community, and we haven't disowned clowns like BCX. This community has NO STRUCTURE, and the really sad part is that NO ONE lets anyone lead, therefore nothing ever gets done.

It's a sad reality that I am slowly starting to want no part of...

Freedom is nice, as long as others start to troll you  Grin
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October 19, 2011, 09:27:09 AM
 #7

You mean kinda like the way RS will boot anyone in IRC if they even mention anything that disagrees with his devine word?

Trolls get booted in IRC, nothing special here...
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October 19, 2011, 09:27:55 AM
 #8

Yawn.

Somebody says something on the forum, price falls, hence people saying stuff on the forum cause price falls.

Trees are waving, the faucet is dripping. Movement of trees is thus cause of plumbing failures.

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

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Raoul Duke
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October 19, 2011, 09:38:04 AM
 #9

Yawn.

Somebody says something on the forum, price falls, hence people saying stuff on the forum cause price falls.

Trees are waving, the faucet is dripping. Movement of trees is thus cause of plumbing failures.

Lolcust, wher you been? Sorry about the TBX thing, the Idiot kept saying it so I just validated it for him. Apolgize. Won't happen again.

How many coins will lolclown give you for apologizing to him publicly?

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October 19, 2011, 10:00:10 AM
 #10

This community has NO STRUCTURE, and the really sad part is that NO ONE lets anyone lead, therefore nothing ever gets done.

I do not fully understand the benefits of this.  Within the alt community boards is no one coin specifically, how can there be someone to manage such discussions?  Maybe this should be in Meta to suggest each Coin be separated.   I am not sure that would be beneficial with each coin having such a small userbase as is.   I do not believe people are using the Report to Moderator button as much as they should.  Less new thread creation and more using that link, the mods do support it's use.

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October 19, 2011, 10:11:20 AM
 #11

How many coins will lolclown give you for apologizing to him publicly?

Less than it would take to hire someone to teach you basic block explorer use skills.

Yawn.

Somebody says something on the forum, price falls, hence people saying stuff on the forum cause price falls.

Trees are waving, the faucet is dripping. Movement of trees is thus cause of plumbing failures.

Lolcust, wher you been? Sorry about the TBX thing, the Idiot kept saying it so I just validated it for him. Apolgize. Won't happen again.

Busy with
1) IRL (Lolcust is voracious and needs to be fed, ya kno)
2) Laundry and Potential Wondertainment Feature (will release more details as concept gets finalized and looked at by ArtForz who is sadly quite busy with other issues right now)
3) Coming up with creative "deflationesque" feats that do not affect the miner or the hoarder but nonetheless cut some coins out of circulation, because it seems there is a cohort with strong "deflation psychology" adoption drive and it is determined enough to somehow procure my email (which I didn't tell anyone and only used on several forums to register) and bombard me with deflation pamphlets.
Such a strongly driven demographic can be helpful irrespective of economic beliefs, so i've set out on a quest to come up with a "million needlepicks" way to induce "harmless" (from miner and user POV) coin loss.

The first product of this affair is now a Tenebrix Code Bounty (see relevant thread) and second might become part of the additional functionality that will be added (so far no details, because it is a very raw concept and I am reluctant to discuss it until Art takes a look and passes his judgment)

And yes, I will be very grateful if in the future all parties would kindly refrain from dragging me into various "scandals" without my knowledge or a single shred of warning.

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

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freequant
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October 19, 2011, 03:44:21 PM
 #12

3) Coming up with creative "deflationesque" feats that do not affect the miner or the hoarder but nonetheless cut some coins out of circulation, because it seems there is a cohort with strong "deflation psychology" adoption drive and it is determined enough to somehow procure my email (which I didn't tell anyone and only used on several forums to register) and bombard me with deflation pamphlets.

How about merging the existing public CPU-mined currencies?

Create a fork of Litecoin with a premine that corresponds to the sum of all the coins mined on TBX + FBX + LTC weighted by their exchange rate over the last week before genesis.
Let's call that TriCoin for the convenience of having a handle for it.

People can decide to transfer their wealtht from TBX, FBX or LTC to TriCoin by destroying all the coins at a given address (using a given "sink" address), and claiming from the premined fund the equivalent amount of TriCoins.
Ownership of the coin that have been destroyed can be proven by turning over the private key of the empty account to the TriCoin premine fund manager who will verify that he can rederive the address from the submitted private key.
Upon success of this check, the premine fund manager will credit the corresponding amount of TriCoin to the chosen TriCoin recipient address.

The goal is to merge TBX, FBX and LTC to create a unique and stronger CPU mined currency.
This is also an opportunity for TBX and FBX to change their monetary policy.

Of course, in order to convince holders of LTC and FBX, the 7.7M premine of Tenebrix should not be eligible for conversion.
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October 19, 2011, 03:48:16 PM
 #13

3) Coming up with creative "deflationesque" feats that do not affect the miner or the hoarder but nonetheless cut some coins out of circulation, because it seems there is a cohort with strong "deflation psychology" adoption drive and it is determined enough to somehow procure my email (which I didn't tell anyone and only used on several forums to register) and bombard me with deflation pamphlets.

How about merging the existing public CPU-mined currencies?

Create a fork of Litecoin with a premine that corresponds to the sum of all the coins mined on TBX + FBX + LTC weighted by their exchange rate over the last week before genesis.
Let's call that TriCoin for the convenience of having a handle for it.

People can decide to transfer their wealtht from TBX, FBX or LTC to TriCoin by destroying all the coins at a given address (using a given "sink" address), and claiming from the premined fund the equivalent amount of TriCoins.
Ownership of the coin that have been destroyed can be proven by turning over the private key of the empty account to the TriCoin premine fund manager who will verify that he can rederive the address from the submitted private key.
Upon success of this check, the premine fund manager will credit the corresponding amount of TriCoin to the chosen TriCoin recipient address.

The goal is to merge TBX, FBX and LTC to create a unique and stronger CPU mined currency.
This is also an opportunity for TBX and FBX to change their monetary policy.

Of course, in order to convince holders of LTC and FBX, the 7.7M premine of Tenebrix should not be eligible for conversion.

I'd like to remind you that Transaction Anonymizer can only operate with the premine, and that LTC and FBX/TBX have notably different assumptions about economics and even different blockrates.

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

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freequant
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October 19, 2011, 04:24:19 PM
 #14

I'd like to remind you that Transaction Anonymizer can only operate with the premine

Can you explain why it can only operate with a (huge) premine?
Do you have a paper explaining the concept?

LTC and FBX/TBX have notably different assumptions about economics and even different blockrates.

Differences of behavior of the source coins won't matter once they are merged.
Funds that stayed with the old chain will continue to be subject to the original rules.
Funds that were transfered to the new chain will be subject to the rules of the new chain.

As you seem to be realizing now, the infinite expansion of TBX (and FBX for that matter) hinders its adoption as the value of each coin tends asymptotically to 0 as time passes (economy is finite).
Now that there is LiteCoin that offers a much more profitable prospect for the speculator, TBX and FBX are heading slowly to extinction.
For Fairbrix, that is alright because the coin was a clone with very little followers, failed its launch, and never really took off.
But Tenebrix is the original : it is innovative, and still has a pretty strong momentum.
It is a pitty to wait and see while its value vanishes away.

Off course, some of the value gets captured by LTC. But what a waste of time and efforts for the community.
We don't need to have whatmany CPU-mined coins.
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October 19, 2011, 04:42:27 PM
 #15

Off course, some of the value gets captured by LTC. But what a waste of time and efforts for the community.
We don't need to have whatmany CPU-mined coins.


The more the merrier; without competition we would never improve these digital commodities.

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October 19, 2011, 07:18:40 PM
 #16

I want this fun and spirited debate to continue BCX. This gets us closer to the truth, which is what I am most ultimately after. You unfortunately bring many LIES, which is why its hard to trust ANYTHING you say. Open the thread back up, lets have this debate.

Never trust anyone who claims to be 'after the truth' in any matter where absolute truth does not exist. They are only ever after vengeance.

Debates don't bring truth in any case. They only provide a forum where the best orator wins.
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October 19, 2011, 07:30:11 PM
 #17

I'd like to remind you that Transaction Anonymizer can only operate with the premine

Can you explain why it can only operate with a (huge) premine?
Do you have a paper explaining the concept?

While I don't have a formal paper, I believe you are generally aware of the principles of operation of classical bitcoin transaction decorrelation systems such as the Bitcoin Laundry and the (typical) problem of not having a large buffer of "clean/uncorrelated" coins to send to the client.

Because if you are, then you should be aware that a typical transaction mixer will have troubles guaranteeing "coin cleanness"  as the size of mass to be laundered approaches the size of mass stored as "clean buffer" at the laundry.

The trivial, and straightforward solution, is to have a buffer so huge that it dwarfs typical laundering transaction, thus ensuring that 1) all clients WILL get clean coins 2) buffer turnover (process by which an "old" buffer of clean coins is replaced by coins procured from (client transactions-fees) ) is reasonably slow

Sadly, much like with choosing a "sane" amount of premine, there can exist no formal way to calculate "a good buffer" beyond the unquantifiable assessment that it should be damned big.

I also believe you are aware of coblee/ArtForz proposal to create a code lock-in system that will not allow to "steal" from the laundry even in the unlikely event a hostile party takes over its wallet.dat and will both warn users of such a client in case it takes place and fork the blockchain in a manner that will render the attempted heist rather trite.
Do mind that I intend to deploy it, albeit in a voluntary manner (though I will of course advise exchanges and pools to deploy "locked" version and the version of the client with Laundry GUI will come only with lock-ins)
Differences of behavior of the source coins won't matter once they are merged.

Oh yes they will.
Please check out the infinite amazing deeflahshun argument.

People who like / dislike a particular economic quirk will be pissed royally about the merger if their beloved pet econ-twist happens to be left in the dust as result of the merger.

As you seem to be realizing now, the infinite expansion of TBX (and FBX for that matter) hinders its adoption as the value of each coin tends asymptotically to 0 as time passes (economy is finite).

Oh dear Cthulhu allmighty, are you a "deflationist" ?  Shocked

Listen, I don't mind your economic beliefs - I am even going to implement a thing or two in TBX to make it more deflation-y so you people  won't be concerned over hypothetical infinite expansion that much.

But for the love of everything good - nobody knows how markets really will respond to subsidy cuts specifically (not just the first, but also the second one, since, you know, each subsidy cut will have different effects unless you have some very weird beliefs about utility of CCoins and their demand elasticity), and we already have a coin that intends to find that out experimentally, one called Bitcoin.

Also, it seems quite apparent that cutting subsidy is neither the only nor the most cunning way to enforce a limit on "coin mass" growth (not to mention that any human-run system includes such "methods" by default, and unlike coin production in TBX, they scale up with adoption growth)

Methinks that it is both boring and dangerous to refuse to try out new designs, including new creative ways of creating pseudo-deflation (all coin deflation isn't deflation proper) which is exactly what I intend to do.

<snip>

It is unfortunate that the deflation crew got to you.  did you explain to them that your coin will be deflationary as well as the amount of newly minted coins gets closer and closer to 0% inflation?

  And how by the very fundamental nature of humanity, coins will be lost or vandalized out of existence?

I sort of gave up when a group of relatively large size has started mailing me deflation pamphlets and ebooks about how Austrian view of monetary policy is the bee's knees (not that I am willing to engage in an argument about which part of a bee's anatomy  said view really is)

This behavior is most remarkable given that I am 100% confident that I never published that email address in any public venue.

At that point I decided that if someone is driven enough to organize a "mail lolcust campaign" I might as well cooperate in some mutually agreeable way.

Well I know your web site clearly states this but still lol maybe some just need more direct teachings?

I have contemplated the option of individually replying to each and every  correspondent who has chosen to share priceless economic insights with me, but have chosen not to do so, both due to time constraints and due to the fact that I doubt my ability to argue someone out of a view they seemingly were not argued into in the first place.


Burning the tx fees is probably not a bad compromise to appease the people you mentioned I suppose.

That's just first of several "let's increase coin loss without additional inconvenience to users or miners" tricks up the sleeve, but the rest are at this point too vaguely experimental to discuss.


Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
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BTC: 15F8xbgRBA1XZ4hmtdFDUasroa2A5rYg8M
GEG: gK5Lx6ypWgr69Gw9yGzE6dsA7kcuCRZRK
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October 19, 2011, 08:49:13 PM
 #18

I want this fun and spirited debate to continue BCX. This gets us closer to the truth, which is what I am most ultimately after. You unfortunately bring many LIES, which is why its hard to trust ANYTHING you say. Open the thread back up, lets have this debate.

Never trust anyone who claims to be 'after the truth' in any matter where absolute truth does not exist. They are only ever after vengeance.

Debates don't bring truth in any case. They only provide a forum where the best orator wins.

I think everyone in this forum is looking for the truth in one form or another. Obviously there is a small minority of people here who are solely here to disrupt.

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October 19, 2011, 08:56:04 PM
 #19

freequant
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October 28, 2011, 06:17:29 PM
 #20

As you seem to be realizing now, the infinite expansion of TBX (and FBX for that matter) hinders its adoption as the value of each coin tends asymptotically to 0 as time passes (economy is finite).
Oh dear Cthulhu allmighty, are you a "deflationist" ?  Shocked
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
I am not deflationist, I am agnostic and pragmatic.
What is the limit to infinity of f(x)/g(x) where f and g are two increasing function such that f grows at a slower rate than g?
In the above, f is the market capitalization of TBX, and g is the money supply.
For the coin's value to increase or be stable, the capitalization must grow at least at the same rate as the money supply.
This is not impossible for a mature coin that successed in building a thriving economy, but experience shows that this is hardly the case with alt currencies, and TBX is no exception.

Don't get me wrong, I do not say that TBX was bound to fail.
TBX had a chance to build a huge market share thanks to the innovative mining strategy that allowed to tap into unexploided computing power.
For a few weeks, f was growing faster than g. It could fly.
But that time has passed, and it won't come back unless you come up with a major killer use-case for your coin.

Methinks that it is both boring and dangerous to refuse to try out new designs, including new creative ways of creating pseudo-deflation (all coin deflation isn't deflation proper) which is exactly what I intend to do.
I am not making a case for avoiding any particular type of experiment. I am am outspoken proponent of natural selection.
TBX was an interesting experiment, and I am glad it happened.
Now, the experiment is clearly over, and there is (or should I say there *was*) the question of what to do with the capital and the user base before it all melts down.
Of course, you could also let it die naturally and let the resources find their way into other blockchains through currency exchanges.
The final result is the same as with an explicit merge, except that you don't get to influence where the resources go.

As a founder, you loose everything by letting things decay naturally.
That being said, I respect your choice.
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