Bitcoin Forum
September 21, 2018, 10:39:50 PM *
News: ♦♦ New info! Bitcoin Core users absolutely must upgrade to previously-announced 0.16.3 [Torrent]. All Bitcoin users should temporarily trust confirmations slightly less. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin ETFs will Open Floodgates for Manipulation  (Read 44 times)
Blackforce
Copper Member
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 52
Merit: 4


View Profile
August 16, 2018, 06:48:04 PM
 #1

When Andreas speaks, people listen.
Andreas Antonopoulos, a BTCBitcoin advocate with a large following, uploaded a video on August 14 that outlined why an ETF on the cryptocurrency creates so much hype and, more importantly, why he doesn't like the idea. His main concerns are manipulation of price, governance, and politics of Bitcoin. A great explaination from Andreas on the implications of an ETF.

According to Andreas,"Everybody's so excited about ETFs because, the price really increases dramatically as suddenly that commodity becomes available to a lot more investors and these investors pile on, but there's always these claims that the commodities markets are heavily manipulated and opening up these exchange-traded instruments only increases the ability of institutional investors to manipulate."

A HIGHLY RECOMMENDED WATCH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSv0J4bfBCc&feature=youtu.be

Content Credit:

https://t.me/cointified

https://t.me/whatsoncrypto

Cointify and What's On Crypto - is building a Hub - One stop destination for Blockchain, Crypto & Visualizations about Money, In-depth Cost Guides and Tools.
1537569590
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537569590

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537569590
Reply with quote  #2

1537569590
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1537569590
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537569590

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537569590
Reply with quote  #2

1537569590
Report to moderator
1537569590
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537569590

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537569590
Reply with quote  #2

1537569590
Report to moderator
joniboini
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 558


Indonesia Patrol Squad #1


View Profile WWW
August 17, 2018, 03:15:02 AM
 #2

Agree with Andreas. Even without ETF, there is still a possibility that Bitcoin or any other asset price is manipulated.
See gold or silver, it's been dumped and pumped repeatedly.

What we need is more adoption, demands will follow later on. Even without ETF I still believe Bitcoin will reach its ATH again.


       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
   
       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
Better. Quick.

Transparent.






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
Juggy777
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 314



View Profile
August 17, 2018, 03:42:19 AM
 #3

When Andreas speaks, people listen.
Andreas Antonopoulos, a BTCBitcoin advocate with a large following, uploaded a video on August 14 that outlined why an ETF on the cryptocurrency creates so much hype and, more importantly, why he doesn't like the idea. His main concerns are manipulation of price, governance, and politics of Bitcoin. A great explaination from Andreas on the implications of an ETF.

According to Andreas,"Everybody's so excited about ETFs because, the price really increases dramatically as suddenly that commodity becomes available to a lot more investors and these investors pile on, but there's always these claims that the commodities markets are heavily manipulated and opening up these exchange-traded instruments only increases the ability of institutional investors to manipulate."

A HIGHLY RECOMMENDED WATCH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSv0J4bfBCc&feature=youtu.be

Content Credit:

https://t.me/cointified

https://t.me/whatsoncrypto

Cointify and What's On Crypto - is building a Hub - One stop destination for Blockchain, Crypto & Visualizations about Money, In-depth Cost Guides and Tools.

Andreas has got a valid point here, and he's experienced in the crypto world hence when he gives out such a statement one needs to really think deeply about it. There's doubt that an ETF will indeed restrict the volatility we normally see in bitcoins, but the worrying question is how much will it be able to restrict. On other hands the increase volumes could even increase the prices.

We normally see the Pump and Dump game in bitcoins, it'll be interesting if the ETF can bring an end to this, but then again it's pertinent to remember this all was said when futures were coming, but it proved false bitcoins prices rose, pump and dump continued. In my views it's to early to call the ETF a bad idea, I would like to give it some time, before an opinion can be formed.

BitDice[]               ▄▄███▄▄
           ▄▄██▀▀ ▄ ▀▀██▄▄
      ▄▄█ ▀▀  ▄▄█████▄▄  ▀▀ █▄▄
  ▄▄██▀▀     ▀▀ █████ ▀▀     ▀▀██▄▄
██▀▀ ▄▄██▀      ▀███▀      ▀██▄▄ ▀▀██
██  ████▄▄       ███       ▄▄████  ██
██  █▀▀████▄▄  ▄█████▄  ▄▄████▀▀█  ██
██  ▀     ▀▀▀███████████▀▀▀     ▀  ██
             ███████████
██  ▄     ▄▄▄███████████▄▄▄     ▄  ██
██  █▄▄████▀▀  ▀█████▀  ▀▀████▄▄█  ██
██  ████▀▀       ███       ▀▀████  ██
██▄▄ ▀▀██▄      ▄███▄      ▄██▀▀ ▄▄██
  ▀▀██▄▄     ▄▄ █████ ▄▄     ▄▄██▀▀
      ▀▀█ ▄▄  ▀▀█████▀▀  ▄▄ █▀▀
           ▀▀██▄▄ ▀ ▄▄██▀▀
               ▀▀███▀▀
        ▄▄███████▄▄
     ▄███████████████▄
    ████▀▀       ▀▀████
   ████▀           ▀████
   ████             ████
   ████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ████
▄█████████████████████████▄
██████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████████
████                   ████
████                   ████
████                   ████
████                   ████
████                   ████
████▄                 ▄████
████████▄▄▄     ▄▄▄████████
  ▀▀▀█████████████████▀▀▀
        ▀▀▀█████▀▀▀
▄▄████████████████████████████████▄▄
██████████████████████████████████████
█████                            █████
█████                            █████
█████                            █████
█████                            █████
█████                     ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
█████                   ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄
█████                   ██          ██
█████                   ██          ██
█████                   ██          ██
██████████████████▀▀███ ██          ██
 ████████████████▄  ▄██ ██          ██
   ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██          ██
             ██████████ ██          ██
           ▄███████████ ██████▀▀██████
          █████████████  ▀████▄▄████▀
[/]
jeffer8035
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 247
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 17, 2018, 04:26:24 AM
 #4

I believe the same the etf are not going to help the bitcoin but they want to manipulate it as the raw materials of the world because they know that they got out of control must be very aware of all these movements of the bull bulls brave walll street that what they want is to fill their pockets at the ribs of the bitcoin name this can be a double-edged sword depends on how they structure it

   ⚡⚡ PRiVCY ⚡⚡   ▂▃▅▆█ ✅ PRiVCY (PRIV) is a new PoW/PoS revolutionary privacy project ● ☞ ✅ Best privacy crypto-market! ● █▆▅▃▂
    Own Your Privacy! ─────────────────║ WebsiteGithub  |  Bitcointalk  |  Twitter  |  Discord  |  Explorer ║─────────────────
   ✯✯✯✯✯                 ✈✈✈[Free Airdrop - Starts 9th June]✅[Tor]✈✈✈ ║───────────║ Wallet ➢ ✓ Windows  |  ✓ macOS  |  ✓ Linux
odolvlobo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2240
Merit: 1135



View Profile
August 17, 2018, 04:54:26 AM
 #5

I feel that his concerns are a little overblown. I agree that owning shares of a Bitcoin ETF is inferior to owning the bitcoins outright and for all the reasons he gave.

However, I don't think the concerns about manipulation facilitated by an ETF are warranted. If there is any manipulation, it will be related to Bitcoin derivatives and not the ETF itself.

Buy bitcoins with cash from somebody near you: LocalBitcoins
Buy stuff on Amazon at a discount with bitcoins: Purse.io
Join an anti-signature campaign: DannyHamilton's ignore list
nicosey
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 304
Merit: 101



View Profile
August 17, 2018, 05:40:36 AM
 #6

I feel that his concerns are a little overblown. I agree that owning shares of a Bitcoin ETF is inferior to owning the bitcoins outright and for all the reasons he gave.

However, I don't think the concerns about manipulation facilitated by an ETF are warranted. If there is any manipulation, it will be related to Bitcoin derivatives and not the ETF itself.

We already have Bitcoin ETNs and this has not happened.  So I think his concerns are way over blown.

davis196
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 966
Merit: 517


View Profile
August 17, 2018, 05:52:30 AM
 #7

Bitcoin and most of the altcoins are already manipulated,how can this be a valid point?
Anyway,his opinion doesn't matter,because 90% of all crypto users WANT the prices to manipulated,so another bubble would be created and we could reach the moon faster. Grin

indayburakday012
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 0


View Profile
August 17, 2018, 05:55:45 AM
 #8

Of course manipulation is desirable especially nowadays that market price for bitcoin relatively grows form time to time. And the in charge for this are still the team but with the lookout of a government personnel or a third party. This because even if without the ETF regulations still market was manipulated and there was market price adjustments happen without notice on why and what from the team. If the government will going to stepped in then we could have a third party that we could be able to ask for an update.
Kakmakr
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1125

★ ChipMixer | Bitcoin mixing service ★


View Profile
August 17, 2018, 06:06:11 AM
 #9

I feel that his concerns are a little overblown. I agree that owning shares of a Bitcoin ETF is inferior to owning the bitcoins outright and for all the reasons he gave.

However, I don't think the concerns about manipulation facilitated by an ETF are warranted. If there is any manipulation, it will be related to Bitcoin derivatives and not the ETF itself.

It depends on what is used to determines the value of the ETF? If they determine that the price will be sourced from a regulated exchange within the USA, then global manipulation will have less of an impact, but the local price will "adjust" to synchronize with global supply and demand and this is where the manipulation will have it's biggest impact.

The people who will be manipulating the price, will not do this in a regulated environment where it can be detected and tracked to individuals or groups.

How do you remove a specific group of regulated exchanges from the global supply and demand on other platforms, to prevent external manipulation? 

bjmpoker001
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 10

SECURIX - CRYPTO MINING


View Profile
August 17, 2018, 09:51:18 AM
 #10

When Andreas speaks, people listen.
Andreas Antonopoulos, a BTCBitcoin advocate with a large following, uploaded a video on August 14 that outlined why an ETF on the cryptocurrency creates so much hype and, more importantly, why he doesn't like the idea. His main concerns are manipulation of price, governance, and politics of Bitcoin. A great explaination from Andreas on the implications of an ETF.

According to Andreas,"Everybody's so excited about ETFs because, the price really increases dramatically as suddenly that commodity becomes available to a lot more investors and these investors pile on, but there's always these claims that the commodities markets are heavily manipulated and opening up these exchange-traded instruments only increases the ability of institutional investors to manipulate."

A HIGHLY RECOMMENDED WATCH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSv0J4bfBCc&feature=youtu.be

Content Credit:

https://t.me/cointified

https://t.me/whatsoncrypto

Cointify and What's On Crypto - is building a Hub - One stop destination for Blockchain, Crypto & Visualizations about Money, In-depth Cost Guides and Tools.

Manipulation is often done in the market because the value of crypto is volatile. With ETF news, i think some manipulators use it to manipulate the price in the market. What we can do is not following their flow. If we are currently experiencing some losses because holding good coins, then we should wait, not sell.

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!