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Author Topic: Mt. Gox has filed for bankruptcy protection  (Read 5304 times)
seleme
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February 28, 2014, 12:00:50 PM
 #41

Price will crash in a few hours

You still hope for $250? Sorry mate, not gonna happen.

Noooo, he doesn't, bitcoin is dead as investment  Cheesy

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February 28, 2014, 12:01:58 PM
 #42

Good point TERA, but we didn't see the bottom yet.
You can buy now, the price is ok, but you probably can get two times the bitcoins in a few days with the same fiat.

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February 28, 2014, 12:03:17 PM
 #43

Price will crash in a few hours

You still hope for $250? Sorry mate, not gonna happen.

$100 on BTCE two weeks ago not good enough for you?
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February 28, 2014, 12:07:58 PM
 #44

- Every bear and bull who has sold and is waiting to rebuy.
- The ridiculously overextended short interest on bitfinex.
- Second Market
- Anyone who has become aware of bitcoin in the past 3 months but has been waiting for the boom, bust, and reversal to complete before buying in.
- My followers, who I have had on call about this. They are waiting with large sums of fiat.
- The insane buyers on Bitstamp who drove it up from 400 to 600 and put tons of fiat on the order book.
- The bitcoin bank in cyprus just opened.
- People who will start buying into the new ATM machines
- Any banker or wealthy person who has become aware and is waiting to take a gamble at this when the time is right.
- [ill let some bulls continue this list her, because im actually waiting to rebuy myself, so i wont put too much eeffort]

Screw what Joe Sixpack and Mainstread Media think. They are the ultimate contrarian indicator. Dont you get it? When public sentiment is low is the BEST time to buy. I want to buy low BEFORE public sentiment is good. Once public sentiment is good, prices will be driven up astronomically, and it will soon be time to SELL, not buy.
 
Eventually regulated exchanges in the United States which function like stock markets will be launched. When that happens, people will forget all about mtgox and those will be seen as bitcoin's kindergarten days, before the price blasts into space.

Wow, I think this is the most bullish i've seen you.
Also a new exchange in Hong Kong opened up today:
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February 28, 2014, 12:10:37 PM
 #45

- Every bear and bull who has sold and is waiting to rebuy.
- The ridiculously overextended short interest on bitfinex.
- Second Market
- Anyone who has become aware of bitcoin in the past 3 months but has been waiting for the boom, bust, and reversal to complete before buying in.
- My followers, who I have had on call about this. They are waiting with large sums of fiat.
- The insane buyers on Bitstamp who drove it up from 400 to 600 and put tons of fiat on the order book.
- The bitcoin bank in cyprus just opened.
- People who will start buying into the new ATM machines
- Any banker or wealthy person who has become aware and is waiting to take a gamble at this when the time is right.
- [ill let some bulls continue this list her, because im actually waiting to rebuy myself, so i wont put too much eeffort]

Screw what Joe Sixpack and Mainstread Media think. They are the ultimate contrarian indicator. Dont you get it? When public sentiment is low is the BEST time to buy. I want to buy low BEFORE public sentiment is good. Once public sentiment is good, prices will be driven up astronomically, and it will soon be time to SELL, not buy.
 
Eventually regulated exchanges in the United States which function like stock markets will be launched. When that happens, people will forget all about mtgox and those will be seen as bitcoin's kindergarten days, before the price blasts into space.

Wow, I think this is the most bullish i've seen you.
Also a new exchange in Hong Kong opened up today:

Hint: I like to play devil's advocate. I will argue agaist anything I think is irrational, whether it is bearish or bullish. It just so happens there are the most irrational bull arguments to argue against when the market is high and the most irrational bear arguments to argue against when the market is low.
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February 28, 2014, 12:11:58 PM
 #46

Price will crash in a few hours

You still hope for $250? Sorry mate, not gonna happen.

$100 on BTCE two weeks ago not good enough for you?
Lasted for all of a few minutes. And people with orders on the way down didn't get them filled. Doesn't count. No, seriously, it doesn't.

Good point TERA, but we didn't see the bottom yet.
You can buy now, the price is ok, but you probably can get two times the bitcoins in a few days with the same fiat.
Sub-300 prices. Don't be absurd.

There is no bubble.
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February 28, 2014, 12:12:49 PM
 #47


Now the time is anything but "right."

Claiming that awful news leads to higher prices is ludicrous.

What happened to the buy low sell high strategy?

TERA is pointing out that now/near future will be a great buy in time because this will most likely be the time we'll reach a bottom before the next upswing
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February 28, 2014, 12:13:26 PM
 #48

There are a ton of investors waiting on the sidelines and all they want is some closure to this ongoing drama and for the bottom to be found and the worst priced in before they buy. So any end to the mtgox ordeal is bullish. There may be a short term downwards movement due to panic but ultimately upwards.

Who are these 'ton of investors'? Joe Sixpack turned on the news and thinks Bitcoin is dead. Any financial institution worth a damn won't touch Bitcoin with a 10 foot pole long after the dust has settled. Any present or future business that accepts Bitcoin is a net seller of Bitcoins, so count those out. Emerging markets are already painting it as an elaborate ponzi and in some cases banning it. There is still a ton of stolen coins waiting to be dumped.

The taint of this news will not be washed by some Reddit headline of a donut shop down the street accepting BTC. As far as the mainstream perception goes, Bitcoin has a crapton of PR to do until it can shakeoff this colossal fuckup - the fact that some stupid CEO is actually responsible for it has little meaning outside of the in-the-know folks who are already a part of the Bitcoin community.

I ask you again, who are these 'ton of investors' you speak of?
- Every bear and bull who has sold and is waiting to rebuy.
- The ridiculously overextended short interest on bitfinex.
- Second Market
- Anyone who has become aware of bitcoin in the past 3 months but has been waiting for the boom, bust, and reversal to complete before buying in.
- My followers, who I have had on call about this. They are waiting with large sums of fiat.
- The insane buyers on Bitstamp who drove it up from 400 to 600 and put tons of fiat on the order book.
- The bitcoin bank in cyprus just opened.
- People who will start buying into the new ATM machines
- Any banker or wealthy person who has become aware and is waiting to take a gamble at this when the time is right.
- [ill let some bulls continue this list her, because im actually waiting to rebuy myself, so i wont put too much eeffort]

Screw what Joe Sixpack and Mainstread Media think. They are the ultimate contrarian indicator. Dont you get it? When public sentiment is low is the BEST time to buy. I want to buy low BEFORE public sentiment is good. Once public sentiment is good, prices will be driven up astronomically, and it will soon be time to SELL, not buy.
 
Eventually regulated exchanges in the United States which function like stock markets will be launched. When that happens, people will forget all about mtgox and those will be seen as bitcoin's kindergarten days, before the price blasts into space.

I marked the three groups, who I see as big buyers.
And I want to sum it up:
- people with money and sense for speculation (and maybe know how), who heard about Bitcoin the first time when the price was above 1000$ and the saw it as overpriced. Now they studied the last booms and waiting for the turning point. So a few days in a row with 5%+ would be such an indicator. And maybe they are waiting for high speed exchanges!

"Morality, it could be argued, represents the way that people would like the world to work - whereas economics represents how it actually does work." Freakonomics
Sindelar1938
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February 28, 2014, 12:13:35 PM
 #49

About time to get closure
The uncertainty has been spooking the market

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February 28, 2014, 12:17:49 PM
 #50

No massive panic in the markets. As I expected, the market has already priced in gox' demise.  Cheesy

Mainstream media didn't pick up the story yet.
More FUD will start within 24 hours.

There is no such thing as bad publicity.

This can be a valid point. Let's assume with every bad news 1000 new people hear of Bitcoin. 95% think, Bitcoin is stupid. 50 think, it is great and want to buy.
-> It does not really matter when the people, who never liked Bitcoin still don't like it with bad news and if new people don't like it. But there will always be people who like it. Just mention all the time "7500% gain in value in one year" and people start reading Grin

"Morality, it could be argued, represents the way that people would like the world to work - whereas economics represents how it actually does work." Freakonomics
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February 28, 2014, 12:24:59 PM
 #51

The problem is this news affects the fence sitters, who'll be turned off.  It also gives the regulators an excellent excuse to regulate bitcoin out of existence -- "Look, it's nothing but scammers and suckers."

As a bitcoin convert, *I* am not chomping at the bit to buy right now.  Look at the charts and tell me I'm wrong.
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February 28, 2014, 12:28:39 PM
 #52

The problem is this news affects the fence sitters, who'll be turned off.  It also gives the regulators an excellent excuse to regulate bitcoin out of existence -- "Look, it's nothing but scammers and suckers."

As a bitcoin convert, *I* am not chomping at the bit to buy right now.
Bitcoin can't be killed by regulators. By design. For starters, it's global. No single country can makes rules for it, and global cooperation is not going to happen. Then there is the fact that it can't be killed. The tech is out there, all they can do is make it illegal which is not going to hurt the price. Which is why they won't do that either.

There is no bubble.
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February 28, 2014, 12:35:00 PM
 #53

The problem is this news affects the fence sitters, who'll be turned off.  It also gives the regulators an excellent excuse to regulate bitcoin out of existence -- "Look, it's nothing but scammers and suckers."

As a bitcoin convert, *I* am not chomping at the bit to buy right now.
Bitcoin can't be killed by regulators. By design. For starters, it's global. No single country can makes rules for it, and global cooperation is not going to happen. Then there is the fact that it can't be killed. The tech is out there, all they can do is make it illegal which is not going to hurt the price. Which is why they won't do that either.
False. illegalization will kill most of the demand. Most bitcoiners are hobbyists and investors who will listen to their government rather than risking going to jail, and most people are not anarcho-libertarians.
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February 28, 2014, 12:37:46 PM
 #54

...
Bitcoin can't be killed by regulators. By design. For starters, it's global. No single country can makes rules for it, and global cooperation is not going to happen. Then there is the fact that it can't be killed. The tech is out there, all they can do is make it illegal which is not going to hurt the price. Which is why they won't do that either.

You should explain this to companies like NeoBee and every business accepting bitcoins.
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February 28, 2014, 12:38:42 PM
 #55

Hint: I like to play devil's advocate. I will argue agaist anything I think is irrational, whether it is bearish or bullish. It just so happens there are the most irrational bull arguments to argue against when the market is high and the most irrational bear arguments to argue against when the market is low.
That`s may Impression since you started arguing bullish.
But it is ok as one can reconsider one`s own arguments
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February 28, 2014, 12:39:14 PM
 #56

The problem is this news affects the fence sitters, who'll be turned off.  It also gives the regulators an excellent excuse to regulate bitcoin out of existence -- "Look, it's nothing but scammers and suckers."

As a bitcoin convert, *I* am not chomping at the bit to buy right now.
Bitcoin can't be killed by regulators. By design. For starters, it's global. No single country can makes rules for it, and global cooperation is not going to happen. Then there is the fact that it can't be killed. The tech is out there, all they can do is make it illegal which is not going to hurt the price. Which is why they won't do that either.
False. illegalization will kill most of the demand. Most bitcoiners are hobbyists and investors who will listen to their government rather than risking going to jail, and most people are not anarcho-libertarians.

+1  Also, Bitcoin can be killed by scammers, thieves and  the negative media reporting FUD that goes along with it.  We are seeing this to some extent now.  Sad

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February 28, 2014, 12:41:17 PM
 #57

There are a ton of investors waiting on the sidelines and all they want is some closure to this ongoing drama and for the bottom to be found and the worst priced in before they buy. So any end to the mtgox ordeal is bullish. There may be a short term downwards movement due to panic but ultimately upwards.

Who are these 'ton of investors'? Joe Sixpack turned on the news and thinks Bitcoin is dead. Any financial institution worth a damn won't touch Bitcoin with a 10 foot pole long after the dust has settled. Any present or future business that accepts Bitcoin is a net seller of Bitcoins, so count those out. Emerging markets are already painting it as an elaborate ponzi and in some cases banning it. There is still a ton of stolen coins waiting to be dumped.

The taint of this news will not be washed by some Reddit headline of a donut shop down the street accepting BTC. As far as the mainstream perception goes, Bitcoin has a crapton of PR to do until it can shakeoff this colossal fuckup - the fact that some stupid CEO is actually responsible for it has little meaning outside of the in-the-know folks who are already a part of the Bitcoin community.

I ask you again, who are these 'ton of investors' you speak of?
- Every bear and bull who has sold and is waiting to rebuy.
- The ridiculously overextended short interest on bitfinex.
- Second Market
- Anyone who has become aware of bitcoin in the past 3 months but has been waiting for the boom, bust, and reversal to complete before buying in.
- My followers, who I have had on call about this. They are waiting with large sums of fiat.
- The insane buyers on Bitstamp who drove it up from 400 to 600 and put tons of fiat on the order book.
- The bitcoin bank in cyprus just opened.
- People who will start buying into the new ATM machines
- Any banker or wealthy person who has become aware and is waiting to take a gamble at this when the time is right.
- [ill let some bulls continue this list her, because im actually waiting to rebuy myself, so i wont put too much eeffort]

Screw what Joe Sixpack and Mainstread Media think. They are the ultimate contrarian indicator. Dont you get it? When public sentiment is low is the BEST time to buy. I want to buy low BEFORE public sentiment is good. Once public sentiment is good, prices will be driven up astronomically, and it will soon be time to SELL, not buy.
 
Eventually regulated exchanges in the United States which function like stock markets will be launched. When that happens, people will forget all about mtgox and those will be seen as bitcoin's kindergarten days, before the price blasts into space.

I have two major issues with Bitcoin being something that anyone would want to invest into at these prices:

1) The price has not gone down nearly enough given the recent light of events. The most well known Bitcoin exchange being now synonymous with one of the biggest financial thefts/losses in history is one step shy of the worst possible news that could happen - which is some flaw in the Bitcoin software itself.

2) Not only has Bitcoin's acceptance/breakthrough efforts have been set back significantly but the risk factor has also increased - who knows what will come of this development and the repercussions that governing agencies and others might impose. Such uncertainty, whether anything becomes of it, is still a factor that should weigh on the price because at a moment's notice some FUD could be created out of thin air relating to this situation and drive prices lower, which would be reasonable given the amount of fear in the air.

TLDR: Bitcoin price is still way too high given the calamity of the situation, the new risks now attached, and no foreseeable development in the near term that could entice investors to not 'miss the train'. Investing at these prices, IMHO, is pretty stupid.

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February 28, 2014, 12:57:15 PM
 #58

The problem is this news affects the fence sitters, who'll be turned off.  It also gives the regulators an excellent excuse to regulate bitcoin out of existence -- "Look, it's nothing but scammers and suckers."

As a bitcoin convert, *I* am not chomping at the bit to buy right now.
Bitcoin can't be killed by regulators. By design. For starters, it's global. No single country can makes rules for it, and global cooperation is not going to happen. Then there is the fact that it can't be killed. The tech is out there, all they can do is make it illegal which is not going to hurt the price. Which is why they won't do that either.
False. illegalization will kill most of the demand. Most bitcoiners are hobbyists and investors who will listen to their government rather than risking going to jail, and most people are not anarcho-libertarians.
Prohibition. Most drinkers were hobbyholics, not hardened gangsters. Which is why everyone stopped drinking and the price dropped.

Only reason people pay lip service to the law is because we are threatened with jail if we don't. It is very easy to use bitcoin anonymously for those so inclined, and there will always be somewhere in the world where using them is fully legal for those not adverse to relocating. Imagine, living like a king somewhere in SE asia because people in other countries are making you rich by breaking the law. However things go, the next years will be fascinating.

There is no bubble.
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February 28, 2014, 01:06:35 PM
 #59

...
Prohibition. Most drinkers were hobbyholics, not hardened gangsters. Which is why everyone stopped drinking and the price dropped.

Only reason people pay lip service to the law is because we are threatened with jail if we don't. It is very easy to use bitcoin anonymously for those so inclined, and there will always be somewhere in the world where using them is fully legal for those not adverse to relocating. Imagine, living like a king somewhere in SE asia because people in other countries are making you rich by breaking the law. However things go, the next years will be fascinating.

Apples != oranges.  If bitcoin is booze, so is fiat.  Only fiat is legal booze.  Your analogy would be accurate if the prohibition banned gin, while everything else -- vodka, whiskey, saki, etc., remained legal.  If during such prohibition a thriving gin industry emerged, you'd have a point...
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February 28, 2014, 01:08:26 PM
 #60

...
Prohibition. Most drinkers were hobbyholics, not hardened gangsters. Which is why everyone stopped drinking and the price dropped.

Only reason people pay lip service to the law is because we are threatened with jail if we don't. It is very easy to use bitcoin anonymously for those so inclined, and there will always be somewhere in the world where using them is fully legal for those not adverse to relocating. Imagine, living like a king somewhere in SE asia because people in other countries are making you rich by breaking the law. However things go, the next years will be fascinating.

Apples != oranges.  If bitcoin is booze, so is fiat.  Only fiat is legal booze.  Your analogy would be accurate if the prohibition banned gin, while everything else -- vodka, whiskey, saki, etc., remained legal.  If during such prohibition a thriving gin industry emerged, you'd have a point...
Actually, black markets exist for US dollars in countries that have banned them. So yeah, we are both talking apples. Or oranges if you prefer, Oranges are cool people with me.

There is no bubble.
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