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Author Topic: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy  (Read 4387 times)
grifferz
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March 01, 2014, 04:36:45 AM
 #41

im  wondering why MTgox files for bankruptcy protection and not just bankruptcy??
Have you considered reading the post two above yours for a possible motivation?
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darkmule
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March 01, 2014, 04:43:43 AM
 #42

One of the main reasons I quoted from the article was the claim that Mark Karpeles has a personal wealth of some 345,000 bitcoins.
That is rather a lot of coins to be holding, when your company has lost a load more.

Generally, the whole point of establishing a corporation is to shield your own personal wealth from actions against the corporation if it fails.

However, considering what a good jerb Gox did keeping its "cold wallet" and "hot wallet" separate, how good a jerb do you think they did keeping Magikarpeles assets separate from Gox assets?

My guess is they did a really shitty job, just like they did a really shitty job at everything else.

Good jerb!
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March 01, 2014, 09:37:15 AM
 #43

One of the main reasons I quoted from the article was the claim that Mark Karpeles has a personal wealth of some 345,000 bitcoins.
That is rather a lot of coins to be holding, when your company has lost a load more.

It's the DailyMail, not known for verifying anything.  They've based that on estimates made by un-named people - estimates which seem to presume that all fees go to Mark personally (revenue is NOT profit).  To date, few reports even mention Jed's MtGox holdings or speculate on the portion of fees he's collected - that fact alone means that many of these reports, and the speculation within them are based on surface, information and no real investigation.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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March 01, 2014, 10:48:25 AM
 #44


xandriel
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March 01, 2014, 11:56:35 AM
 #45


It's the DailyMail, not known for verifying anything.  They've based that on estimates made by un-named people - estimates which seem to presume that all fees go to Mark personally (revenue is NOT profit).  To date, few reports even mention Jed's MtGox holdings or speculate on the portion of fees he's collected - that fact alone means that many of these reports, and the speculation within them are based on surface, information and no real investigation.

You are correct about the Daily Mail. However in my opinion Mark does not seem to bothered that his multimillion dollar company has just collapsed, and if he were found to have make 345,000 BTC profit from his company then I would wonder how he ended up holding an amount equal to 50% of the missing coins.

Only time and real investigation will reveal the true details of the transactions, and from what I hear about Gox bookkeeping, this could take some time.

thelema93
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March 01, 2014, 12:10:32 PM
 #46

They are NOT bankrupt.

They have NOT made a statement saying that coins got stolen

This is so f**ing hyped-up it's unbelievable.

TO SUMMARISE:

1) Malleability Bug
2) Attempt to Fix Bug
3) Possible Hacking Attempt - no-one really knows
4) Crisis Document that Mark says is 'more or less legit' i.e. NOT 100% TRUE
5) Gox files for protection so they can attempt to get company back on track
6) Mark says in regard to the crisis - "we have identified the problem and we are working on it"

THESE ARE ALL FACTS - everything else IS SPECULATION
btcinsight
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March 01, 2014, 12:56:06 PM
 #47

MtGox lawyers said the 850k bitcoins were stolen yesterday, I think.

Bitrated user: 2btcinsight.
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March 01, 2014, 12:56:35 PM
 #48

They are NOT bankrupt.

They have NOT made a statement saying that coins got stolen

This is so f**ing hyped-up it's unbelievable.

TO SUMMARISE:

1) Malleability Bug
2) Attempt to Fix Bug
3) Possible Hacking Attempt - no-one really knows
4) Crisis Document that Mark says is 'more or less legit' i.e. NOT 100% TRUE
5) Gox files for protection so they can attempt to get company back on track
6) Mark says in regard to the crisis - "we have identified the problem and we are working on it"

THESE ARE ALL FACTS - everything else IS SPECULATION


Read this:
http://www.extremetech.com/internet/177283-bitcoin-value-plummets-as-mt-gox-disappears-with-375-million-in-coins

Quote
Mt. Gox’s CEO Mark Karpeles said at a press conference in Tokyo this morning. “Mt. Gox went bankrupt but I hope the Bitcoin industry will last.”

Quote
Mt. Gox’s wallet software issues may have been so severe that transaction malleability allowed 744,408 BTC to be stolen over the course of several years

Seems to me like:
1) Gox is now bankrupt.
2) Coins are gone
3) Malleability bug was known for years, most other exchanges coded around it. Gox did not, so probably gross negligence.
4) Would anybody trust a restructured Gox?? I would not for sure.

The problems customers have had over the past few years seem to be the cause of it all. All those 'stuck' transactions....but where did they go???

Only time will tell

btc237ftw
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March 01, 2014, 04:46:40 PM
 #49

Quote
Quote from: V4Vendettas on February 28, 2014, 02:49:15 PM
Quote from: btc237ftw on February 28, 2014, 02:26:43 PM
Guys,

This looks more like a restructure and rebrand now than before...
"Bankruptcy Protection" has some similarities to "Bankruptcy" but there is a huge difference...

http://www.ehow.com/info_8053559_bankruptcy-vs-bankruptcy-protection.html
http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-bankruptcy-and-bankruptcy-protection/

It is basically a protection from the court to give them time to restructure and remodel and rebrand and re-everything (recode, relocate etc) while investors cannot sue them during that time:
http://www.zalkinrevell.com/bankruptcyprotection.html

So.. think about it, if they are going to rebrand and start new, what is the next step they need to make? this one.

Some evidence:
1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin).
2. Gox.com redirects to MTGox.com.
3. Gox.com registry shows it was recently changed to the name of Mark Carpeles.
4. Mark said other parties are involved in trying to find a solution to this current problem, its live on mtgox.com
5. It's obvious that not taking a step to save and rescue almost a million MTGox customers can damage Bitcoin severely in the long run, due to more banks not agreeing to work with BTC companies, more regulation straggling Bitcoin businesses, panic from main stream and more. Therefore it is an incentive for big players to intervene.
6. On the document where a rescue plan is discussed and structured, the date for the shut-down of MTGox's website/trade is Japan morning time of the 25th February 25th. The document was released BEFORE the shut down happend, and indeed it was at the time specified.
7. The next step, according to the document is to restructure and Mark to step down.

In my view, the chances of that rescue plan to be happening just got a lot bigger.

Obviously, I might be wrong, and obviously even if a plan IS happening it doesn't guarantee it will succeed.

Anyway, I think you should know and realize that this is (in my opinion) probably what is going on.
We should get a statement on MTGox.com website within a week in my opinion.



Nice post and I am inclined to agree.

Disclaimer: I am one of the Goxxed and may not be in full possession of all my marbles while still firmly in the denial stages of grief.

if that plan works - what does it mean for all of us who hang in with our money?
appreciate any support to understand it

It means that who ever hang in there will have access to his/her accoung and he/she will be able to see the DEBT that he/she holds. I.E amount of BTC balance and amount of Fiat balance. At that point, according to the withdrawal limitations (probably verified accounts only) of say 10BTC/Day and 50-100/monthly, he/she can withdraw the BTCs as real BTCs outside that account. The problem will remain with those who hold a lot of debt, say 1,000 BTC - as it will take 10 months to withdraw with such a limitation. But those holding such amounts will still be able to trade and gain/lose more of their debt, and also sell it to ouside users for a bit less of it's then-current value, which should be around 10-25% lower than the other exchanges. With time, as trade will continue, commissions will be made by the exchange and withdrawals do work, people will want to send fiat money to that exchange again. The reason is simple, low amounts of cash allows them to withdraw instantly BTCs that can be artibrated and/or just bought cheaply for the long run. Once that happens the snowball will be rolling full power and the limiation of BTC withdrawals will be raised slowly.
rikkejohn
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March 01, 2014, 04:52:56 PM
 #50

They are NOT bankrupt.

They have NOT made a statement saying that coins got stolen

This is so f**ing hyped-up it's unbelievable.

TO SUMMARISE:

1) Malleability Bug
2) Attempt to Fix Bug
3) Possible Hacking Attempt - no-one really knows
4) Crisis Document that Mark says is 'more or less legit' i.e. NOT 100% TRUE
5) Gox files for protection so they can attempt to get company back on track
6) Mark says in regard to the crisis - "we have identified the problem and we are working on it"

THESE ARE ALL FACTS - everything else IS SPECULATION


The last 2 are facts but prove nothing factual other than what Gox said. Using them is if they are facts is speculation on your part.

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March 01, 2014, 05:05:17 PM
 #51

They are NOT bankrupt.

They have NOT made a statement saying that coins got stolen

This is so f**ing hyped-up it's unbelievable.

TO SUMMARISE:

1) Malleability Bug
2) Attempt to Fix Bug
3) Possible Hacking Attempt - no-one really knows
4) Crisis Document that Mark says is 'more or less legit' i.e. NOT 100% TRUE
5) Gox files for protection so they can attempt to get company back on track
6) Mark says in regard to the crisis - "we have identified the problem and we are working on it"

THESE ARE ALL FACTS - everything else IS SPECULATION


The last 2 are facts but prove nothing factual other than what Gox said. Using them is if they are facts is speculation on your part.

There isn't much factual still relevant on it's own after the press conference with lawyers. This kind of sets the frame of reality for customers right now.

Is it possible that they officially are forced to declare bankruptcy, when in fact the real reason is seized bank deposit boxes with their paper wallets, which they can't talk about for "---" reasons?

Things that can move this on: Criminal charges by some state, (Japanese, US,---), An official statement from the current administrators of the company right now.

I'm dying to know more as everybody are too.


 
 
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